Mayo v Galway NFL Division 1. 7/2/2010

[Lar Naparka]

That was a complete rant! 

Apologies for hijacking the thread,
Lar you can reply to that one over on the Mayo discussion thread! 
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.msg726626#msg726626

Somehow, I think you have missed my point, Abbey.
I have said all along that while I have issues with John O'Mahony's management style, I don't think he should be blamed for everything that is wrong with Mayo football; past or present.
I would also feel that I have given the poor man credit where due at all times and that I have done so more often than most.

Without a doubt, Mickey and Beefer did lead us to the final of '06 but it was a game we hadn't the proverbial snowball's chance of winning.

That's the place where we part company, is it?
That was not intended as a quip of any sort. I gave my reasons in the last sentence of that paragraph.

Apart from team selection and substitutions, they had lost control to the senior players and were reduced to leading from the rear.

That's not blaming the players, is it?
In fact, you have gone to considerable length to make points that I had skipped over. I don't think we had a realistic hope that day because of the breakdown in communications between management and players and I feel much of the blame lies with M&M for this. Jack O'Connor was later to state the obvious; right from the start, Kerry would kick it high into Donaghy as he knew Donaghy had the beating of Heaney. He also had a mighty dust up in his camp when he played Declan O'Sullivan on Jimmy Nallen.  From '04, he knew Nallen couldn't cope with O'Sullivan. He picked a man to do a job though that meant handing the captaincy to him as well.
Kerry were better organised, hungrier for success and there was one man in total charge that day. Compare the Kerry tactics and organisation with Mayo's and you may see why I think we hadn't a hope of winning that game.
Really, you have given most of the obvious reasons yourself so I won't dwell on them. I do feel that we did not have the players to beat Kerry that day but that is a quite separate issue.
Getting to an All Ireland is fine but actually winning it is even better still and to be brutally frank, I don't think we have had many sides that were genuinely good enough to do that in any given year that I can remember.
Still; an aura seems to have developed around the team of being romantic losers, ever-doomed to fail and to rise again only to effin' fall down once more and so on and on, like a speech by Bertie Ahern.

I have criticised Johnno over many things but I don't think, that if M&M were still in charge, the situation would be any better.

I think the pair was treated disgracefully but I have noticed that some supporters in general look back at 2006 and feel that the two buckos, who got us to a final at their first attempt, would have at least one title to their credit by now. That by inference means we would have one or more by now if only John O'Mahony had not been appointed.
Let John O'Mahony stand or fall on his own actions; any Mayo side that may win an All Ireland will need to win it on merit as there is nothing to be gained by hankering for a heroic past that never existed.
Geez, Abbey, you seem to be in horrid form this weather. Is there a fatwah or something against me down Ballintubber way?
And why bother scutterin' off to the Mayo discussion thread? Isn't this the place where all matters of national importance are debated and analysed in depth? That's why every single topic that has a Mayo connection of any sort, will wind up by being taken over by Mayo lads who want to discuss really importance issues such as Johnno's latest moves and his inexplicable failure to accept our expert and considered advice? Oh, by the way, you can also  include Sligonian's crusade to have Bellaghy and Tom Parson expatriated.

[AbbeySider]

I think the pair was treated disgracefully but I have noticed that some supporters in general look back at 2006 and feel that the two buckos, who got us to a final at their first attempt, would have at least one title to their credit by now. That by inference means we would have one or more by now if only John O'Mahony had not been appointed.
Let John O'Mahony stand or fall on his own actions; any Mayo side that may win an All Ireland will need to win it on merit as there is nothing to be gained by hankering for a heroic past that never existed.
Geez, Abbey, you seem to be in horrid form this weather. Is there a fatwah or something against me down Ballintubber way?
And why bother scutterin' off to the Mayo discussion thread? Isn't this the place where all matters of national importance are debated and analysed in depth? That's why every single topic that has a Mayo connection of any sort, will wind up by being taken over by Mayo lads who want to discuss really importance issues such as Johnno's latest moves and his inexplicable failure to accept our expert and considered advice? Oh, by the way, you can also  include Sligonian's crusade to have Bellaghy and Tom Parson expatriated.

Apologies if I came across as being in horrid form or especially argumentative/aggressive in any way!  I was just trying to state a few facts and how I felt about it '06.
Reflecting on the M&M year, I do feel kind of strongly that they had major flaws and failings that all surfaced in the final, but the tell tail signs were there before that. Im only disagreeing and saying that we had every chance of winning in '06 if things were right and we learned from previous mistakes. Also M&M getting the cut in '06 was harsh and ruthless but I honestly think that it was McDonald, Brady, Heaney and O neill that dragged us to that final (especially McDonald no more than in 2004) and it was very little to do with M&M in the end.

[muppet]

I think the pair was treated disgracefully but I have noticed that some supporters in general look back at 2006 and feel that the two buckos, who got us to a final at their first attempt, would have at least one title to their credit by now. That by inference means we would have one or more by now if only John O'Mahony had not been appointed.
Let John O'Mahony stand or fall on his own actions; any Mayo side that may win an All Ireland will need to win it on merit as there is nothing to be gained by hankering for a heroic past that never existed.
Geez, Abbey, you seem to be in horrid form this weather. Is there a fatwah or something against me down Ballintubber way?
And why bother scutterin' off to the Mayo discussion thread? Isn't this the place where all matters of national importance are debated and analysed in depth? That's why every single topic that has a Mayo connection of any sort, will wind up by being taken over by Mayo lads who want to discuss really importance issues such as Johnno's latest moves and his inexplicable failure to accept our expert and considered advice? Oh, by the way, you can also  include Sligonian's crusade to have Bellaghy and Tom Parson expatriated.

Apologies if I came across as being in horrid form or especially argumentative/aggressive in any way!  I was just trying to state a few facts and how I felt about it '06.
Reflecting on the M&M year, I do feel kind of strongly that they had major flaws and failings that all surfaced in the final, but the tell tail signs were there before that. Im only disagreeing and saying that we had every chance of winning in '06 if things were right and we learned from previous mistakes. Also M&M getting the cut in '06 was harsh and ruthless but I honestly think that it was McDonald, Brady, Heaney and O neill that dragged us to that final (especially McDonald no more than in 2004) and it was very little to do with M&M in the end.

Any game that you score 3 goals in the 1st half you'd think you were in with a shot.

[mannix]

who would we put on donaghy at fullforward today? and darren o sullivan? is kieran conroy or ger cafferkey strong enough and aggressive enough like david brady was or are we still short of his likes as a full back?
I also believe that after watching mickey moran being told by heaney that them warming up into the hill against dublin was fine and to leave it alone that he had lost control, would kerry go against what jack o connor says? JOM is really going to need to have his players fight in the championship like they never did before bar the dubs in 2006 and tyrone in 2004, giving up is too easy after all the hard work especially against limited opposition that Mayo should be well able for.

[Duine Eile]

1   Paul Doherty   Réalta Thuama

2   Garreth Bradshaw   Maigh Cuilinn

3   Finian Hanley   Bothar na Tra/Cn na Cathrach

4   Donal O'Neill   Seamróige Cortuin

5   Declan Meehan   Cealltrach

6   Garry O'Donnell   Realta Thuama

7   Niall Coyne   Carna/Caiseal

8   Joe Bergin   An Creagán-Maigh Locha

9   Mark Lydon   Maigh Cuilinn

10   Paddy Kennedy   Bearna

11   Paul Conroy   Naomh Sheamus

12   Niall Coleman   Anach Cuain

13   Sean Armstrong   Bóthar na Tra/Cn na Cathrach

14   Nicky Joyce   Cill Fhir Iarainn

15   Michael Martin   Seamróige Cortuin

16   Adrian Faherty   Baile Clár na Gaillimhe

17   Tomas Fahy   Cill Fhir Iarainn

18   Conor Healy   Bothar na Trá/Cn na Cathrach

19   Michael Meehan   Cealltrach

20   Danny Commins   Baile Clár na Gaillimhe

21   Eoin Concannon   Naomh Sheamus

22   Jamie Murphy   Realta Thuama

23   David Finnegan   Seamróige Cortuin

24   John Paul O'Connell   Baile Clár na Gaillimhe

[muppet]

Mayo SF v Galway: David Clarke (Ballina); Donal Vaughan (Ballinrobe), Ger Cafferkey (Ballina), Keith Higgins (Ballyhaunis); Peadar Gardiner (Crossmolina), Trevor Howley (Knockmore), Kevin McLoughlin (Knockmore); Tom Parsons (Charlestown), Ronan McGarrity (Ballina); Andy Moran (Ballaghaderreen), Seamus O'Shea (Breaffy),..Trevor Mortimer (Shrule); Enda Varley (Garrymore), Aidan O'Shea (Breaffy), Mark Ronaldson (Shrule)

[Farrandeelin]

Parsons and McGarrity need to get their act together or else it could end up messy. It will be interesting to see how Seamus O Shea operates at no 11. Hopefully he will prove successful. Defensively I'm not sure about full-back line or if K McLoughlin will wait where he is or he might swop with Andy Moran. All we can do is be there urging them on and hopefully something good will happen. I just don't trust my instinct that it will happen that way though. I would like to see Howley playing a good game at no 6.

[moysider]

Mayo SF v Galway: David Clarke (Ballina); Donal Vaughan (Ballinrobe), Ger Cafferkey (Ballina), Keith Higgins (Ballyhaunis); Peadar Gardiner (Crossmolina), Trevor Howley (Knockmore), Kevin McLoughlin (Knockmore); Tom Parsons (Charlestown), Ronan McGarrity (Ballina); Andy Moran (Ballaghaderreen), Seamus O'Shea (Breaffy),..Trevor Mortimer (Shrule); Enda Varley (Garrymore), Aidan O'Shea (Breaffy), Mark Ronaldson (Shrule)

Well done Muppet. Could nt find it anywhere. Must say I like a lot of that and its a team you d like to see play. We ll just have to see how it goes and not just a list of names. A couple of things.

Keith gone back to corner. Johnno obviously believes in this fb line. In fairness too, McLoughlin would have more craft and guile going forward.

Good to see Andy in forwards. SoS be an 11 or are we going with 3 midfielders? We ll probably have to anyway cause they have a lot of beef in there.

[The flame still burns]

Brief analysis of the Mayo team

http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.wordpress.com/

[moysider]

Brief analysis of the Mayo team

http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.wordpress.com/

I would nt pay much heed to the numbering to be honest. All kinds of switching could happen. I d expect Ó Sé to start as outright midfielder and Parsons in a more advanced role. In my time Mayo have never gone with the classic playmaker type 11 anyway. Fellas like Hanahoe, Ógie, Thomkins, Connor,  Blaney, Giles, Mairtín Beag, McGuigan, O Sullivan. Says a lot about us really and why we come up short. 11 in football is like a 10 in rugby. Our underage teams dont encourage or nurture this type of player either.

As for the fb line. Looks like management believes they will learn their trade and are the most likely to do so from what they have. Their call. Their future may well depend on it.

[Foreverhopeful]

i like our full forward line. Great balance to it. Picking o se will allow t parsons to attack more. Last yr i was suggesting trying him at no.11 cos his best assest seemed to be running through the middle and taking points. Galway's team is packed with midfielders. 2 in half forward line + centre back is midfielder.  Its gonna need the 3 lads for mayo in the middle + andy and trev mopping up. Really hope varley does well. himself and o'shea deserve a chance. I would have liked to see maybe kieran conroy at 6 and utilise trevor elsewhere. Or else feeney at full and caf at 2,4,6. Its absolute madness having 2 wingbacks in corner's. Give dermot geraghty another shot. I've seen many many men do worse

[rosnarun]

the time for slagging o mahony is gone, hes there and will be there till after the next election. no point in arguing the toss about that atr this time of year.
As for bad performaces we could surely have a separate thread about which was the worst . but Derry is right up there though losing a connacht final to leitrim is pretty unforgivable too.mty childhood is scarred with a loss to sligo pn my 1st big day out, i spent years thinking sligo were giants of the game.
As for the team it looks solid enough,
is JOM trying to redefine CHB with 1st kelly and now óSE great time for óse but not exactly a natural forward maybe a swap with parsons and hes only being a dick naming him at 11

[Lar Naparka]

Apologies if I came across as being in horrid form or especially argumentative/aggressive in any way!  I was just trying to state a few facts and how I felt about it '06.
Reflecting on the M&M year, I do feel kind of strongly that they had major flaws and failings that all surfaced in the final, but the tell tail signs were there before that. Im only disagreeing and saying that we had every chance of winning in '06 if things were right and we learned from previous mistakes. Also M&M getting the cut in '06 was harsh and ruthless but I honestly think that it was McDonald, Brady, Heaney and O neill that dragged us to that final (especially McDonald no more than in 2004) and it was very little to do with M&M in the end.

First things first, I wish Johnno and the  lads every success on Sunday and I know it is said that league form counts for nothing  but that usually comes from the losers. It's better to win well than lose gallantly any day.
I think the team is starting to have a settled look about it and that can't be a bad thing. It's an improvement over the first couple of years when Johnno seemed hell bent on confusing everybody, including himself. A solid performance against Galway is as good a way as any to start the season on a high note. A 10 point win would do nicely but I'd settle for a lucky 1 point result.
Look, I know you weren't being aggressive or anything like that and I was only slagging. Mayo football has little to do with logic and good arguments never need good facts to start them off.
Mayo football should be concerned with the present in order to plan for the future.
What started me off on my latest grouse is that I hear lots of Mayo followers (not here particularly) say that M&M would have won us an AI if only they were still around. I think that's pure wishful thinking. And wishful thinking never helps anyone. M&M did help the team get rid of the habit of giving in when the pressure comes on. Like sticking with it to the end against Galway, Laois and Dublin but their credibility as tacticians had gone after the Dublin game. How could any side be expected to win when the players have lost confidence in the management?
The players themselves did have the same spirit to win as they had shown against Dublin- you can blame M&M for this or poor selection or the hand of history or whatever but the fact is their confidence was at rock bottom.
In the Dublin game, Brady pinned Whelan's lugs back after he came on to replace McGarrity and I felt this was typical of the team spirit on the day. In the final, I knew the game was going to be lost after a few minutes and this had little to do with Donaghy's early goal.
Ciaran Mac had gone into this game carrying an injury. The first time he got possession, he was surrounded by four or five Kerry players who roughed him up. The ref didn't interfere and it was obvious they meant to do more damage to his injury.
How many Mayo players came to his aid? Only one and that was the smallest player on the field. Connereen got in a sliding tackle on one of the Kerry hoors that dropped him but by then Mac had lost possession and Kerry had sent out a message.
There was damn all evidence of the spirit they had shown against Dublin.
For me, that may have been just one isolated incident but it was a telling one.
I'm ending as I began by saying we were genuinely unlucky to lose the '96 final and that one alone. It's time for everyone to stop harking back to the past as the future is going to be tough enough.

[mannix]

Lar na parka, you have a very good way of putting it and you would write a good book.

[macdanger2]

I'm a little disappointed that we're going with the same FB line, would like to see Feeney/AN Other given a chance in there.

I don't recall that incident you decribe Lar but it bears a striking resemblance to something which also happened in a very recent AIF.......

Are there any other midfielders in the county that deserve a shot other than the 5 (incl Harte) that we have?He doesn't seem to fancy Kilcullen for whatever reason. K Conroy? Anyone else?