Medjugorje - has anyone been out there ?

[whiskeysteve]

George Michael says you gotta have faith. im inclined to agree

[Rois]

The onus should be on the "believers" surely ?

To do what?  It's not the "believers" who have the problem, it's you. 

The threads on faith on this board are really grinding my gears at the minute.  What makes people like you haveaharp who don't share the same faith feel you can call others stupid?  Have you own opinion, challenge beliefs certaintly, but calling people stupid or their beliefs "bollix" is just rude.

[haveaharp]

The onus should be on the "believers" surely ?

To do what?  It's not the "believers" who have the problem, it's you. 

The threads on faith on this board are really grinding my gears at the minute.  What makes people like you haveaharp who don't share the same faith feel you can call others stupid?  Have you own opinion, challenge beliefs certaintly, but calling people stupid or their beliefs "bollix" is just rude.

Rude perhaps but more likely to be true.

[thebigfella]

The onus should be on the "believers" surely ?

To do what?  It's not the "believers" who have the problem, it's you. 

The threads on faith on this board are really grinding my gears at the minute.  What makes people like you haveaharp who don't share the same faith feel you can call others stupid?  Have you own opinion, challenge beliefs certaintly, but calling people stupid or their beliefs "bollix" is just rude.

Agreed but also if people want to start threads on religion and faith, especially their own, then they should not be getting upset when someone disagrees with or ridicules their belief. Last time I check this wasn't a religious forum and people should be a bit thicker skinned if they want to discuss things like this.

[Ulick]

Back on topic, the in-laws were at it a few years ago and were very disappointed. They felt it was all a bit of a con. They'd be regular visitors to Fatima and Lourdes. In saying that I know a priest who goes every few years and gets a lot out of it. 

[scud]

Has the church even 'approved' medjugorje?

Sometimes lines have to be drawn between respecting someone's faith and acknowledging that some people are inclined to believe anything. Some of that 'anything' includes stuff which is total 'bollix'.

Why should we treat outlandish claims loosely connected with mainstream 'faith' with greater respect than we would give other marginalized cult beliefs?

- L Ron, of course I respect your beliefs, it is in no way stupid that you think we are controlled by aliens, have my money 

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

The onus should be on the "believers" surely ?

To do what?  It's not the "believers" who have the problem, it's you. 

The threads on faith on this board are really grinding my gears at the minute.  What makes people like you haveaharp who don't share the same faith feel you can call others stupid?  Have you own opinion, challenge beliefs certaintly, but calling people stupid or their beliefs "bollix" is just rude.

Wrong thread. Reported.

RIP Sidelinekick

[sammymaguire]

whats the point arguing? No-one is going to be proven right or wrong on this one... until the day you meet your maker   

The onus should be on the "believers" surely ?

we are all adults, well most of us I reckon. Amongst other things, this is a GAA forum, Gaelic games is a predominantly catholic sport, kids raised in catholic schools (do your kids go to schooll, will your kids go to a catholic school if you have any?) Whether you believe in God, or that life is just an existence and when we all die thats the end of it, or if your cat is a living "god" on earth no-one really cares that much. Faith is a personal thing to everyone.

As for Medjugorje, a close frind of mine when in the latter stages of illness felt the need to visit this place to ease his pain and it gave him some solace in a time when a young man is close to death, for him it served a very important purpose.

[Doogie Browser]

whats the point arguing? No-one is going to be proven right or wrong on this one... until the day you meet your maker   

The onus should be on the "believers" surely ?

we are all adults, well most of us I reckon. Amongst other things, this is a GAA forum, Gaelic games is a predominantly catholic sport, kids raised in catholic schools (do your kids go to schooll, will your kids go to a catholic school if you have any?) Whether you believe in God, or that life is just an existence and when we all die thats the end of it, or if your cat is a living "god" on earth no-one really cares that much. Faith is a personal thing to everyone.

As for Medjugorje, a close frind of mine when in the latter stages of illness felt the need to visit this place to ease his pain and it gave him some solace in a time when a young man is close to death, for him it served a very important purpose.

That for me should outweigh any arguments from people trying to ridicule the place, if it helps people feel a little better about themselves at a very difficult time then I am all for it.

[ONeill]

Pascal's Wager:

It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way.

Betting men whould choose the former. However,

How should you bet? Regardless of any evidence for or against the existence of God, Pascal argued that failure to accept God's existence risks losing everything with no payoff on any count. The best bet, then, is to accept the existence of God. There have been several objections to the wager: that a person cannot simply will himself to believe something that is evidently false to him; that the wager would apply as much to belief in the wrong God as it would to disbelief in all gods, leaving the the believer in any particular god in the same situation as the atheist or agnostic; that God would not reward belief in him based solely on hedging one's bets; and so on.

[saffron sam2]

Back on topic, the in-laws were at it a few years ago and were very disappointed. They felt it was all a bit of a con. They'd be regular visitors to Fatima and Lourdes. In saying that I know a priest who goes every few years and gets a lot out of it.

Yes, 20% commission from every pilgrim in his travelling party.

[cookstownblue]

i know a few  young lads that were "made" to go out with mammies/aunties ect, and had a ball, met women, drank all night kinda malarkey!

[redhugh]

Pascal's Wager:

It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way.

Betting men whould choose the former. However,

How should you bet? Regardless of any evidence for or against the existence of God, Pascal argued that failure to accept God's existence risks losing everything with no payoff on any count. The best bet, then, is to accept the existence of God. There have been several objections to the wager: that a person cannot simply will himself to believe something that is evidently false to him; that the wager would apply as much to belief in the wrong God as it would to disbelief in all gods, leaving the the believer in any particular god in the same situation as the atheist or agnostic; that God would not reward belief in him based solely on hedging one's bets; and so on.

All very well and good O Neill, but as the brother of god surely Pascal's views are not impartial.

[theskull1]

So people should "believe" in God, just in case it's all true 

I actually think you've hit the nail on the head on why so many join the bandwagon.

As regards places like knock and medjugorie lourdes, just because they serve a function and give comfort to those who are ill or dying, it doesn't mean that there isn't explotation being carried out on a massive scale on very easy targets.

Honestly..there are none so blind as those who will not see 

[haveaharp]

So people should "believe" in God, just in case it's all true 

I actually think you've hit the nail on the head on why so many join the bandwagon.

As regards places like knock and medjugorie lourdes, just because they serve a function and give comfort to those who are ill or dying, it doesn't mean that there isn't explotation being carried out on a massive scale on very easy targets.

Honestly..there are none so blind as those who will not see 

Some sense being talked at last........