Protein Supplement Drinks - Whats the story

[No way ref]

My club has brought in a strength and conditioning coach for the winter to give us weights programmes. He told us that we need to take a protein supplement drink to help muscle growth and recovery after each weight session. He sells this stuff so i'm a bit sceptical as to whether its the right thing to do. Has anyone used any of these products and what your opinions. Thanks in advance

[Onion Bag]

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=5727.0

Theres already a thread on this Ref

[JMohan]

We've been given 'PAS' supplements for the past 6-8 months or so.

Our coach got them from Dermot McArdle the Monaghan footballer - there is one - I think it's 'Phase 1', 'Phase 1 Beta' or something that is serious stuff!! 

I'm not sure if you can buy it direct, but it's like rocket fuel!

[Zulu]

My club has brought in a strength and conditioning coach for the winter to give us weights programmes. He told us that we need to take a protein supplement drink to help muscle growth and recovery after each weight session. He sells this stuff so i'm a bit sceptical as to whether its the right thing to do. Has anyone used any of these products and what your opinions. Thanks in advance

The simple answer is no, you don't have to take any supplement. If you're eating a proper balanced diet and are getting enough protein from that (which you should be) then you don't need any more. Your body can't use excess protein and you'll actually piss it down the toilet. The other thing you need to ask is why your doing what your doing, what is the purpose of this weights program, are you all doing the same one and if so why?

My advice would be to bring a white bread chicken sandwhich, a banana and a bottle of water for after the session and you should be fine. I'd put a large wager that if half of you used the supplement and half of you didn't, you'd find no significant difference between either group after the training program. I know professional rugby teams do use supplements but that is a different sport and they are training much harder than you and they need to get much bigger than club footballers so it isn't a valid comparison.

[thebandit]

My club has brought in a strength and conditioning coach for the winter to give us weights programmes. He told us that we need to take a protein supplement drink to help muscle growth and recovery after each weight session. He sells this stuff so i'm a bit sceptical as to whether its the right thing to do. Has anyone used any of these products and what your opinions. Thanks in advance

The simple answer is no, you don't have to take any supplement. If you're eating a proper balanced diet and are getting enough protein from that (which you should be) then you don't need any more. Your body can't use excess protein and you'll actually piss it down the toilet. The other thing you need to ask is why your doing what your doing, what is the purpose of this weights program, are you all doing the same one and if so why?

My advice would be to bring a white bread chicken sandwhich, a banana and a bottle of water for after the session and you should be fine. I'd put a large wager that if half of you used the supplement and half of you didn't, you'd find no significant difference between either group after the training program. I know professional rugby teams do use supplements but that is a different sport and they are training much harder than you and they need to get much bigger than club footballers so it isn't a valid comparison.

Why white bread?

Just curious, we have been told in the past to eat brown bread preferably.

[No way ref]

thanks for that everyone

[Zulu]

White bread is a faster acting simple carb, so it is better for getting the nutrients into the system quickly. This is the only time you should eat white bread though so stick with the brown bread in general. In saying that you should be careful as many commercial brown breads are made with the same type of flour as white bread, look for 100% wholemeal brown bread, many of which are actually very nice.

[JMohan]

White bread is a faster acting simple carb, so it is better for getting the nutrients into the system quickly. This is the only time you should eat white bread though so stick with the brown bread in general. In saying that you should be careful as many commercial brown breads are made with the same type of flour as white bread, look for 100% wholemeal brown bread, many of which are actually very nice.

What 'nutrients' would they be?

Commercially available white bread has almost nothing of any nutritional value.

[Zulu]

White bread is a high glycemic food and as such it enters the blood stream rapidly and elevates insulin concentrations . Increasing insulin concentrations in the blood stimulates an increase in muscle amino acid uptake and protein synthesis. Increased insulin concentrations also slows protein degradation, so in layman terms, eating white bread allows the nutrients from the chicken to get into the blood stream more quickly, be used more quickly and inhibits protein breakdown from the training.

[JMohan]

Commercially available white bread has no worthwhile nutrients.

Both chicken and white bread would be mediocre at best fast acting protein and glycogen sources respectively after a hard weight training or hard football session in comparison to a whey/glucose based supplement.

As for insulin spiking can be achieved easily with a drink containing a sugar source and amino acid levels increased with a whey type supplement - both far faster absorbed in a powdered supplement. In fact you don't even need a higher glycemic source for insulin spiking.

[AbbeySider]

I wouldnt agree with some of the stuff here.

If you are serious about bulking up and making major muscle gains then you need extra protein with a balanced diet. Many of the protein shakes available contain lots of amino acids and multi-vitamins that are otherwise very hard to find in normal foods and a balanced diet. Protein supplements provide the building blocks for lean muscle gains. Realistically your not going to go around eating fish oils and sesame seeds.

Im currently not taking any supplements as I am doing fine without them. I have taken Maxmuscle Cyclone, USN Whey Protine, USN Pure Protein, Creatine Monohydrate etc in the past but only in a very strict sense and I never substituted proper food for a protein shake. I supplemented those as part of a balanced diet. I started in the gym at 11&1/4 stone and now im still a healthy 12.8 stone for my height.

If your goal is gaining muscle, and if you are working our hard enough in the gym to be sore for a few days after, then extra protein in your diet is no harm. It often aids in recovery and lean gains.

IMO, if your not training to make major gains in muscle, then maybe give the supplements a miss.

[Zulu]

Commercially available white bread has no worthwhile nutrients.

Never said it did, it's the effect it has on insulin that is important.

Both chicken and white bread would be mediocre at best fast acting protein and glycogen sources respectively after a hard weight training or hard football session in comparison to a whey/glucose based supplement.

What's a fast acting protein? Chicken is an excellent source of protein and mixed with a simple carb it will do the trick. Besides as long as your diet is good and you are recovering properly you don't need to get too bogged down in your post training meal, as long as you have some carbs and protein you'll be fine.

As for insulin spiking can be achieved easily with a drink containing a sugar source and amino acid levels increased with a whey type supplement - both far faster absorbed in a powdered supplement. In fact you don't even need a higher glycemic source for insulin spiking.

There's a million and one ways you can get protein into your system, the point I'm making is it doesn't have to be an expensive commercial powder supplement. If you a top level athlete training extremely hard, then it might be of some benefit but it is unlikely to have any real benefit for club footballers.

If you are serious about bulking up and making major muscle gains then you need extra protein with a balanced diet.

Not true, your body can't use up all the extra prtein and will simply get rid of it in your urine.

As with many aspects of training, there isn't an absolute right or wrong answer and it is very dependent on the individual, the sport and the level of competition. But there is little evidence that many supplements will positively impact on performance in amatuer sports people.

[JMohan]

Commercially available white bread has no worthwhile nutrients.

Never said it did, it's the effect it has on insulin that is important.

?

White bread is a faster acting simple carb, so it is better for getting the nutrients into the system quickly. This is the only time you should eat white bread though so stick with the brown bread in general. In saying that you should be careful as many commercial brown breads are made with the same type of flour as white bread, look for 100% wholemeal brown bread, many of which are actually very nice.

[JMohan]

Commercially available white bread has no worthwhile nutrients.

Never said it did, it's the effect it has on insulin that is important.

Both chicken and white bread would be mediocre at best fast acting protein and glycogen sources respectively after a hard weight training or hard football session in comparison to a whey/glucose based supplement.

What's a fast acting protein? Chicken is an excellent source of protein and mixed with a simple carb it will do the trick. Besides as long as your diet is good and you are recovering properly you don't need to get too bogged down in your post training meal, as long as you have some carbs and protein you'll be fine.

As for insulin spiking can be achieved easily with a drink containing a sugar source and amino acid levels increased with a whey type supplement - both far faster absorbed in a powdered supplement. In fact you don't even need a higher glycemic source for insulin spiking.

There's a million and one ways you can get protein into your system, the point I'm making is it doesn't have to be an expensive commercial powder supplement. If you a top level athlete training extremely hard, then it might be of some benefit but it is unlikely to have any real benefit for club footballers.

If you are serious about bulking up and making major muscle gains then you need extra protein with a balanced diet.

Not true, your body can't use up all the extra prtein and will simply get rid of it in your urine.

Have to call bullsh*t on this.

Of course your body will excrete extra protein - but it will do that with anything - water, vitamins, fats etc - so to say you don't 'need' or your body can't use extra protein if you begin to do extra weight training is just false information.

An increase in protein intake while weight training is not a bad thing.

As with many aspects of training, there isn't an absolute right or wrong answer and it is very dependent on the individual, the sport and the level of competition. But there is little evidence that many supplements will positively impact on performance in amatuer sports people.

It's got nothing to do with professional, amateur or not - it's to do with the level and volume of training.

[AbbeySider]

If you are serious about bulking up and making major muscle gains then you need extra protein with a balanced diet.

Not true, your body can't use up all the extra prtein and will simply get rid of it in your urine.

As with many aspects of training, there isn't an absolute right or wrong answer and it is very dependent on the individual, the sport and the level of competition. But there is little evidence that many supplements will positively impact on performance in amatuer sports people.

Gimmi a break Zulu 
If your working very hard in the gym with an eye to build muscle you need extra protein in your diet. be it from normal food or supplements.

It's got nothing to do with professional, amateur or not - it's to do with the level and volume of training.

Agree 100% Mohan