The Poppy

[lynchbhoy]

i find it a feck you badge rather than a mark of respect  to  someone who died in ww1 or ww2.

Have you ever had a conversation with a Poppy wearer to ask why they do so? I daresay that some wear it as a badge of identity, even as a "feck you badge".

However, imo that sort of prejudice is no different from that which you display, when you see a Poppy and automatically condemn the wearer, without knowing a damned thing about him/her.

What some would consider a "feck you badge"

Btw Gnevin would appreciate it if you didn't try and link the logo of a sporting organisation with a symbol of war.

I did no such thing . I just posted an example of how some logo's and symbols can have different meanings to 2 different sets of people .

You linked both together in your example, and the only inference that can be drawn is that the wearing of a GAA top is the equivalent to wearing the poppy, as EG gladly took in the following post!

No I said a inference that could be drawn by some was the GAA logo was a " feck you badge".
I never compared the GAA logo and the Poppy . Your totally missing the point

is the FAI , IRFU, RFU, English FA, English Premier league, American NFL, American NBA logos all 'feck you ' badges  or taken by 'some' as so ..?


of course not FFS !!

Too some the English FA badge is. As are the others listed . It all depends on the context and the motivation of the person wearing it .  Wearing a Rugby jersey to a FAI event is a bit of a feck you to the FAI from my point of view.

I know a guy who likes to ware a Munster tie as a feck you badge to his Leinster fan boss .

are you drunk?, thats not even remotely the same and as per usual this line of thought makes no sense (or point) whatsoever !

[Gnevin]

i find it a feck you badge rather than a mark of respect  to  someone who died in ww1 or ww2.

Have you ever had a conversation with a Poppy wearer to ask why they do so? I daresay that some wear it as a badge of identity, even as a "feck you badge".

However, imo that sort of prejudice is no different from that which you display, when you see a Poppy and automatically condemn the wearer, without knowing a damned thing about him/her.

What some would consider a "feck you badge"

Btw Gnevin would appreciate it if you didn't try and link the logo of a sporting organisation with a symbol of war.

I did no such thing . I just posted an example of how some logo's and symbols can have different meanings to 2 different sets of people .

You linked both together in your example, and the only inference that can be drawn is that the wearing of a GAA top is the equivalent to wearing the poppy, as EG gladly took in the following post!

No I said a inference that could be drawn by some was the GAA logo was a " feck you badge".
I never compared the GAA logo and the Poppy . Your totally missing the point

is the FAI , IRFU, RFU, English FA, English Premier league, American NFL, American NBA logos all 'feck you ' badges  or taken by 'some' as so ..?


of course not FFS !!

Too some the English FA badge is. As are the others listed . It all depends on the context and the motivation of the person wearing it .  Wearing a Rugby jersey to a FAI event is a bit of a feck you to the FAI from my point of view.

I know a guy who likes to ware a Munster tie as a feck you badge to his Leinster fan boss .

are you drunk?, thats not even remotely the same and as per usual this line of thought makes no sense (or point) whatsoever !

Well you do know everything so I won't be disagreeing with you.

[redhugh]

Agree with your general sentiment Zap.Many of the fallen Irishmen from the great war went off to fight for the empire with lies ringing in their ears.Many believed that going to fight Britain's war was their best chance of acheiving home rule,that on their glorious return this would be their reward.It had never been mentioned to them that on their return there was every chance that they would be getting their front door kicked in by the black and tans - the same troops that they had been fighting beside a year previously.The only reason that so many Irishmen had gone to fight was that they had been sold a pack of lies.While I agree that these Irishmen should be remembered ,I don't necessarily feel that the best way to remember them is by lumping them together with the memory of the same b******s that they would have been in conflict with had they made it home.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

The fact that the poppy issue comes up every year and raises emotion in the Irish is an example.
To put it as priority topic of discussion on the main political show on Irish TV is proof.

Apart from the efforts of one contributor, the discussion last night was about the appropriateness of remembering WW1 dead.   The host (presumably the one who selected the topic of discussion) was pitching the discussion around the justness/heroic aspects of WW1 in particular.  There was little to suggest the fact that the Brits were involved had much bearing one way or the other.  I don't see that as poof that the Brits have a hold on anyone.  Most of Europe was involved in the war too.

As for the poppy it seems to be those that are opposed to it that have a hang-up about it's British origins.  (I'm talking in a free state context).  The few I ever met were wearing it due to lost relatives and hadn't really thought about the British connection.

I can understand peoples objections but it is plain wrong to paint remembrance ceremonies and poppies as merely being in the hold of the Brits.

The Irish people have no business honouring the dead of British wars and the war itself. Many of the Irish people that died should be remembered as victims of British wars. Many of them were mercanaries forced to join the war due to lies and corruption of political leaders in Ireland and Britan. None were heros. Individual acts of heroism were carried out i'm sure but the fallen Irish were victims not heros. Others joined the war due to misrepresentation of the cause. History should reflect on these leaders for what they were. Remembering the dead and the war should reflect what the war was.

We are surrounded by Brits who are trying to guilt us into a false memory of the truth. We are falling for it hook line and sinker.

They can skick their poppy up their arse.

There were many reasons/motivations for the war and people joining.  That's a reasonable discussion but one can take an opposing view for their own reasons, not because the Brits have a hold no their mindset.

They can skick their poppy up their arse.

They can, and they can also wear it!

/Jim.

[Cúig huaire]

I see a poppy wreath has been laid at Moygannon bridge. Don't know if it was the local Sinn Fein cumman getting in before the official ceremony as usual or the peelers themselves who laid the wreath, but I find it strange that anyone should lay a poppy wreath in memory of the victims of an RTA.
They`ll be leaving poppy wreaths at Fords Cross next.

[Gnevin]

I see a poppy wreath has been laid at Moygannon bridge. Don't know if it was the local Sinn Fein cumman getting in before the official ceremony as usual or the peelers themselves who laid the wreath, but I find it strange that anyone should lay a poppy wreath in memory of the victims of an RTA.
They`ll be leaving poppy wreaths at Fords Cross next.

RTA?

[lynchbhoy]

I see a poppy wreath has been laid at Moygannon bridge. Don't know if it was the local Sinn Fein cumman getting in before the official ceremony as usual or the peelers themselves who laid the wreath, but I find it strange that anyone should lay a poppy wreath in memory of the victims of an RTA.
They`ll be leaving poppy wreaths at Fords Cross next.

RTA?

its another badge you can wear to try and pee off someone !

[Gnevin]

I see a poppy wreath has been laid at Moygannon bridge. Don't know if it was the local Sinn Fein cumman getting in before the official ceremony as usual or the peelers themselves who laid the wreath, but I find it strange that anyone should lay a poppy wreath in memory of the victims of an RTA.
They`ll be leaving poppy wreaths at Fords Cross next.

RTA?

its another badge you can wear to try and pee off someone !

Wow a other exceptionally helpful and insightful post from your self.   

Can any one expand the acronym or give a link?

[lynchbhoy]

I see a poppy wreath has been laid at Moygannon bridge. Don't know if it was the local Sinn Fein cumman getting in before the official ceremony as usual or the peelers themselves who laid the wreath, but I find it strange that anyone should lay a poppy wreath in memory of the victims of an RTA.
They`ll be leaving poppy wreaths at Fords Cross next.

RTA?

its another badge you can wear to try and pee off someone !

Wow a other exceptionally helpful and insightful post from your self.   

Can any one expand the acronym or give a link?

ditto !
superb
pudsy ryan is alive and well !

[Archie Mitchell]

Easter lily sale decision puts student union in line of fire

By Barry McCaffrey
06/11/09
A row has erupted at the University of Ulster in Coleraine after the student union voted to allow the Easter lily to be sold on its premises in addition to the poppy. The motion was passed on Tuesday with an amendment that any profit from lily sales should be donated to charities working with victims of the Troubles. However, student union leaders were told later that any attempt to sell Easter lilies on campus could result in disgruntled employees suing the union. Union president Adrian Kelly defended the Easter lily decision. "The motion was put forward to try and give equal respect to the poppy and the Easter lily," he said. "It was passed after an amendment was agreed that any profits should not go to any political party but instead should go to charities working with victims of the Troubles. "However, we were then informed by the Equality Commission that any attempt to sell the Easter lily on our property could potentially damage harmonious working relations among staff and could leave us open to being sued." Mr Kelly said the issue would be brought back to the students' governing body to decide whether a ban on the lily would be reintroduced. "A lot of people will be disappointed because they felt that the decision to donate any profits to charity was a fitting compromise," he said. "The issue will now go back to the students' union and we will just have to see what happens next."

Ulster Unionist assembly member David McClarty described the decision to let the Easter lily be sold in the student union as "deeply disappointing". "It is regrettable that this unfortunate issue has raised its head once again," he said. "I believed that in recent years there had been more recognition of the sacrifice made by people from all sections of the community through the wearing of the poppy. "There can be no equating the poppy, which is an internationally recognised symbol of peace, with the Easter lily. "It's entirely unfortunate that people have tried to use a place of learning to promote what is clearly a political message."

Sinn Fein councillor Billy Leonard said any attempt to ban the lily from the student union set a "dangerous benchmark" for community relations. "I find this outcome amazing in that it goes to the fundamental of parity of esteem and hence how communities in a divided society accept each other, their histories and emblems that mark parts of those histories," he said.

[Cúig huaire]

I see a poppy wreath has been laid at Moygannon bridge. Don't know if it was the local Sinn Fein cumman getting in before the official ceremony as usual or the peelers themselves who laid the wreath, but I find it strange that anyone should lay a poppy wreath in memory of the victims of an RTA.
They`ll be leaving poppy wreaths at Fords Cross next.

RTA?

Road Traffic Accident.

[Zapatista]

Apart from the efforts of one contributor, the discussion last night was about the appropriateness of remembering WW1 dead.   The host (presumably the one who selected the topic of discussion) was pitching the discussion around the justness/heroic aspects of WW1 in particular.  There was little to suggest the fact that the Brits were involved had much bearing one way or the other.  I don't see that as poof that the Brits have a hold on anyone.  Most of Europe was involved in the war too.

It is only in the spot light as there are some who want to keep up with the Jones. The Brits have some how become a comparison at set a standard for many when it comes to remembering the dead of WW1.

As for the poppy it seems to be those that are opposed to it that have a hang-up about it's British origins.  (I'm talking in a free state context).  The few I ever met were wearing it due to lost relatives and hadn't really thought about the British connection.

I can understand peoples objections but it is plain wrong to paint remembrance ceremonies and poppies as merely being in the hold of the Brits.

The few you have met are misguided about the Poppy if they believe it is anything other than a British symbol. The British own the Poppy Symbol. It is as much British as the UJ. It is a British propaganda tool. 

There were many reasons/motivations for the war and people joining.  That's a reasonable discussion but one can take an opposing view for their own reasons, not because the Brits have a hold no their mindset.

Not with the benefit of hindsight and an honest reflection on the part of Irishmen at the time.

[Gnevin]

All Black wearing a poppy, as are wales

[MW]

You're older than I thought!!  But Switzerland is a very different case to Eire in WWII:
1.  Harsh landscape makes invasion difficult.
2.  No strategic importance made it unnecessary.
3.  Many Swiss are 'ethnically' German.
4.  Switzerland and Germany had good relations.

However:
1.  Eire was weak militarily (tiny navy would have made invasion impossible to repulse from an island nation and no air force).
2.  Great strategic importance.  Invading Eire would have put the Germans onto the same piece of land as the British in NI and also effectively have surrounded Britain on one side.

Anyway, to persevere with my one-man celebration of pedantry, I'm surprised that your meticulousness in referring to countries by their official names in their official languages collapses after the sum total of only one of the selection of countries, nations and states you mention. I can understand your reluctance to tackle the unwieldiness of a phrase like "Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft/Confédération Suisse/Confederazione Svizzera/Confederaziun Svizzer/Confoederatio Helvetica and Deutschland had good relations" but why go out of your way to change languages just to state the name of Ireland?

Ah I do love some nice pedantry

Can't speak for Tonto but there are a few points:

1 - 'Ireland' can be ambiguous as it refers to an island and to a state - my guess is Tonto would have used "Republic of Ireland" to refer to the state post-1948 (and "Irish Free State" pre-1937)

2 - The 1937 constitution says, in English, "we the people of Éire...".

3 - Tonto may not refer to other countries by their names in their official languages, but then again he probably isn't expected to refer to (for example) the French prime minister as the "Premier ministre" or the French national assembly as the "Assemblée nationale" either

[Gnevin]

You're older than I thought!!  But Switzerland is a very different case to Eire in WWII:
1.  Harsh landscape makes invasion difficult.
2.  No strategic importance made it unnecessary.
3.  Many Swiss are 'ethnically' German.
4.  Switzerland and Germany had good relations.

However:
1.  Eire was weak militarily (tiny navy would have made invasion impossible to repulse from an island nation and no air force).
2.  Great strategic importance.  Invading Eire would have put the Germans onto the same piece of land as the British in NI and also effectively have surrounded Britain on one side.

Anyway, to persevere with my one-man celebration of pedantry, I'm surprised that your meticulousness in referring to countries by their official names in their official languages collapses after the sum total of only one of the selection of countries, nations and states you mention. I can understand your reluctance to tackle the unwieldiness of a phrase like "Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft/Confédération Suisse/Confederazione Svizzera/Confederaziun Svizzer/Confoederatio Helvetica and Deutschland had good relations" but why go out of your way to change languages just to state the name of Ireland?

Ah I do love some nice pedantry

Can't speak for Tonto but there are a few points:

1 - 'Ireland' can be ambiguous as it refers to an island and to a state - my guess is Tonto would have used "Republic of Ireland" to refer to the state post-1948 (and "Irish Free State" pre-1937)

Why would he want to describe the state