The Poppy

[delboy]

You must get tired running with those goalposts LB, where did you original question state UK or ireland 

Just for you then a UK centric article with research to back it up, a twenty fold increase in a decade    you really should try talking out of your mouth for a change.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6364768/Fancy-dress-sales-jump-as-Halloween-overtakes-Guy-Fawkes-Night.html

By Harry Wallop, Consumer Affairs Editor
Published: 7:00AM BST 19 Oct 2009


Angels, the theatrical costumier and fancy dress retailer, said sales were up 15 per cent on last year and were on track to hit £2 million over the Halloween period.

Emma Angel, one of the firm's directors, said they had never known such an appetite for ghoulish and comedy outfits as consumers shook off worries about the recession and increasingly opted to party on Halloween rather than Guy Fawkes Night.


She said: "This interest in Halloween has come from nowhere. When I was a child we all used to gather as a family on Guy Fawkes night and watch fireworks.

"But I suppose we all now watch American televisions and Halloween is our first opportunity to dress up and have fun since the August bank holiday."

According to research company Planet Retail, British consumers spent £12 million on Halloween in 2001, £195 million last year, and are predicted to spend £235 million this year, helped by it being a Saturday.

This would mean Halloween, as a consumer event, has increased twentyfold in under a decade, as supermarkets increasingly promote the event to sell toys, sweets, and party equipment.

One of the best selling items this weekend at Tesco was a 50p plastic pumpkin-shaped bucket for children to use when they go trick-or-treating.

With fireworks more difficult to buy, and often expensive, Halloween parties have emerged as a cheaper alternative to Guy Fawkes Night for many families, according to analysts.

Bryan Roberts, analyst at Planet Retail, said: "Led by the likes of Asda, the Halloween category has become a major seasonal retail event. With the 31st October falling on a Saturday this year and, with no work or school to worry about the following day, it is likely that Halloween could be more of an excuse to celebrate than usual."

Angels said the most popular outfits that they were selling this year included costumes from the films Ghostbusters, Edward Scissorhands, as well as nymph and vamp outfits.

[Evil Genius]

there ya go POG - enid cant back up his claim that it isnt badge wearing and the identifiable obviousness of the proportion of poppy wearers in the north of Ireland being more than those wearing poppies in england would go a long way to prove that it is indeed badge wearing and show that indeed it is indicative of the motives of these people (obviously some of these people would not be motivated by that but we all know the mindset of the oo/unionist/;loyalist fraternity in the north of Ireland !!  )

Like "Radar" McElduff and his campaign to paint Post Boxes green, is your contribution to the struggle to reunify Oireland the concerted mangling of the Queen's English on Message Boards?

For I'm fucked if I know what that garbage is supposed to mean (to use a traditional Anglo-Saxon term  )

[Evil Genius]

At which ceremony/location was that photograph of Maskey taken?

Not sure of the ceremony, but the photo was taken he was Lord Mayor of Belfast. That's Belfast City Hall in the background. The point of introducing the photo was to highlight that like Merkel, it is possible to commemorate the war dead without having to subscribe to 'poppy fascism'.

"Poppy Fascism" [sic] refers to the obligation felt to wear a Poppy, sometimes backed up by instruction (eg BBC?), even by someone who would otherwise prefer not to wear one. I have never defended this trend, nor has anyone else on this thread, since it is no more acceptable than barring  someone who wants to, from wearing a Poppy.

I've done a wee bit of Googling and it appears that that photo of Maskey was taken in 2002. And the fact that he was free to show up two hours before  the main (RBL) ceremony and place his wreath on the steps of the City Hall, rather than at the main War Memorial, proves that he was in no way coerced either to be or not be there (which is fair enough in my view).

Consequently, the actual significance of Maskey's gesture (imo) is that it proves (like Merkel in Paris), that one may commemorate the dead without celebrating the conflict in which they died. As such, I commend both Maskey and Merkel for having the insight and objectivity to make that judgement.

Notwithstanding the greater significance of the fact that the two officers who are delivering him to where he richly belongs (prison) are also both wearing Poppies, I know for a fact that Unionists were overwhemingly disgusted that a sc**bag like Knight should have defiled a cherished symbol.

The reason for bringing Knight into the debate was to highlight the fact that there are many poppy wearers who have no idea whatsoever why they are wearing it.

It does nothing of the sort ("highlight the fact [sic] that there are many poppy wearers who have no idea whatsoever why they are* wearing it"). All it "proves" is that Knight is one seriously fucked-up sc**bag - but I think we all knew that anyhow.

* - I think you mean "should be", rather than "are", btw

As you have pointed out (quite correctly) no-one knows the motive of any poppy wearer,

That sentence directly contradicts the one preceeding it (above).

but there can be no doubt that Knight or Irwin or Deeney were wearing it for the right reasons.

I do not understand what you mean by this.

That said, regrettable though it is, it is not the first time such a symbol has been misappropriated for sick and twisted political ends in NI, as this photograph of the funeral of the murderous vermin, Thomas Begley, illustrates:

Not sure of the relevance of this bit, looks a bit like whataboutery. I'll happily discuss the abuse of national flags on the appropriate thread.

Dear oh dear. For the nth. time, "whataboutery" is where someone attempts to defend one wrong, by pointing to another wrong committed by someone else.
I am not defending Knight in any way - he is vermin of the lowest order. My point, however, is that whatever his own twisted reasons for wearing a Poppy, that should not be used to denigrate all those other people who wear Poppies for the right reasons.
Consequently, my use of that photo was by way of comparison i.e. just because some people misappropriate the Tricolour to "honour" vermin like Begley, does not mean that all those other people who fly the Tricolour for the right reasons should be denigrated.

[Evil Genius]

I see coleraine student union have reversed their decision on the sales of the easter lily because of protests from some pathetic unionists...equality commission states: ...symbols with the potential to disrupt a good and harmonious working environment..."such symbols are those directly linked to community conflict in the north and/or politics..."

No, the Union did NOT have to stop selling Easter Lillies because of "protests from some pathetic unionists etc". They had to stop doing so because they were told to by the Equality Commission.

It only followed some Unionists drawing the attention of the EC to a suspected breech of the law; therefore if you think the Commission is erroneous or biased in its application of the law, then you should direct your grievance towards them.

Mope.

[pintsofguinness]

Delboy

POG i'll tell you how i see it, you have lived at one time in NI and have observed poppy wearing you now happen to live in a rural english town and based upon what you have seen you've made an observation that not as many people wear the poppy in that town. This has lead you to have an opinion that poppy wearing in NI is proportionally higher (i don't know where you stand on the badge of bitterness stuff and if you hold they same view as LB that poppy wearers are vile odious bigotted people, thats for another post).

I do leave that town now and again! and my experience is similar anywhere I've been in England.  Other posters bases here have expressed the same opinion as mine so when are you going to accept our opinions are accurate?

[ardmhachaabu]

pints, my guess the answer to your question is 'Never, Never, Never!'

[windyshepardhenderson]

I see coleraine student union have reversed their decision on the sales of the easter lily because of protests from some pathetic unionists...equality commission states: ...symbols with the potential to disrupt a good and harmonious working environment..."such symbols are those directly linked to community conflict in the north and/or politics..."

No, the Union did NOT have to stop selling Easter Lillies because of "protests from some pathetic unionists etc". They had to stop doing so because they were told to by the Equality Commission.

It only followed some Unionists drawing the attention of the EC to a suspected breech of the law; therefore if you think the Commission is erroneous or biased in its application of the law, then you should direct your grievance towards them.

Mope.

smartass, my grievances are directs as much towards the EC as they are the pathetic people who complained. Seemingly like you they have little else to do with their time..

[saffron sam2]

but there can be no doubt that Knight or Irwin or Deeney were wearing it for the right reasons.

I do not understand what you mean by this.

Apologies, I left out the word 'not'from that fragment of a sentence.

The full sentence should therefore have read

"As you have pointed out (quite correctly) no-one knows the motive of any poppy wearer, but there can be no doubt that Knight or Irwin or Deeney were not wearing it for the right reasons."

It doesn't contradict the preceding sentence. I said that it is quite clear that the person in question has no idea why he is wearing it. That much is obvious given that he had just added to the list of those being commemorated with the murder of a former UDR man. I have no idea why he chose to wear it, but it certainly wasn't for any honourable reasons.

[armaghniac]

They had to stop doing so because they were told to by the Equality Commission.

That the "Equality" Commission allows militaristic symbols like poppies and prohibits people wearing local sports jerseys illustrates how unequal NI really remains.

[delboy]

Delboy

POG i'll tell you how i see it, you have lived at one time in NI and have observed poppy wearing you now happen to live in a rural english town and based upon what you have seen you've made an observation that not as many people wear the poppy in that town. This has lead you to have an opinion that poppy wearing in NI is proportionally higher (i don't know where you stand on the badge of bitterness stuff and if you hold they same view as LB that poppy wearers are vile odious bigotted people, thats for another post).

I do leave that town now and again! and my experience is similar anywhere I've been in England.  Other posters bases here have expressed the same opinion as mine so when are you going to accept our opinions are accurate?

Im not, unless you provide some evidence to back it up, its an opinion, that some people share the same opinion (lets face it your playing with a loaded deck on this forum)  doesn't make it right, its a discussion not just a popularity contest, x y and z agree with me therfore im right, thats the stuff of the playground that stuff doesn't fly in the real world.
If you want to engage and discuss things in a grown up fashion then you have to use the conventions of debate and arguement. Or you can instead go back to the banality of bun fighting that most of the threads descend into.

Take for example lynchboys assertion that it would be impossible to provide evidence that halloween was becoming a larger thing from a commercial sense, i took up his laughable challenge and provided credible third party evidence that the monetary spend on halloween has increased twenty fold in a decade, point won (unless of course he chooses to refute the evidence with another credible source which he is entitled to do).

If instead i'd stamped my foot and said that its bigger because i think it is then LB could rightly have claimed the victory that i couldn't prove it.
If you take the time to re-read my posts i don't even say that your opinion is wrong merely that without evidnence to back it up it just an opinion no better or worse than anyone elses (maybe not good for your ego but thats the way it is).

[pintsofguinness]

Im not, unless you provide some evidence to back it up, its an opinion, that some people share the same opinion (lets face it your playing with a loaded deck on this forum)  doesn't make it right, its a discussion not just a popularity contest, x y and z agree with me therfore im right, thats the stuff of the playground that stuff doesn't fly in the real world.
If you want to engage and discuss things in a grown up fashion then you have to use the conventions of debate and arguement. Or you can instead go back to the banality of bun fighting that most of the threads descend into.

You're the one not interested in discussing anything in a grown up fashion.  I've told you my experiences from living here, others have done the same yet you keep shouting for evidence - what evidence do you want? I tell you what, I'll go out tomorrow with the camera and  take pictures of people NOT wearing poppies, will that do you for evidence? Such nonsense.  You might be better served trying to offer an explanation why so many more people wear poppies in NI.  I suspect you know as well as I do the reasons why.

[delboy]

Im not, unless you provide some evidence to back it up, its an opinion, that some people share the same opinion (lets face it your playing with a loaded deck on this forum)  doesn't make it right, its a discussion not just a popularity contest, x y and z agree with me therfore im right, thats the stuff of the playground that stuff doesn't fly in the real world.
If you want to engage and discuss things in a grown up fashion then you have to use the conventions of debate and arguement. Or you can instead go back to the banality of bun fighting that most of the threads descend into.

You're the one not interested in discussing anything in a grown up fashion.  I've told you my experiences from living here, others have done the same yet you keep shouting for evidence - what evidence do you want? I tell you what, I'll go out tomorrow with the camera and  take pictures of people NOT wearing poppies, will that do you for evidence? Such nonsense.  You might be better served trying to offer an explanation why so many more people wear poppies in NI.  I suspect you know as well as I do the reasons why.

So im not interested in discussing this, by that you mean we should bounce a few posts back and forward and come to the same conclusions you did, anything else is a non discussion in your eyes, what tosh. Thats not a discussion that's pandering to your ego, if i wanted to i bet i could pitch up at some other website and express all sorts of sweeping pejorative views about nationalist/catholics and have them confirmed back to me by people who hold the same view, would that make them right, no because unlike some i don't put much store in Argumentum ad populum (seems to be key on this forum). 

I've already told you what i would consider as evidence and no the photo thing won't do, i could easily do the same here and provide lots of photos of people sans poppy.
There you go with your ass backwards assumptions again, i should provide an explanation for the reasons why people wear poppys  You are the one making the claims, you provide the explanation (better sill some evidence), i've already told my own 'personal experience' (not expressed as fact) of poppy wearing and i have to say they are not in agreement with yours (but your ego of course will tell you that im lying just to annoy you or im in denial etc  ).

[Hardy]

Tut tut, as well as mangling an Irish county name, you're also mangling your (German) queen's latin: Do you mean et al., or inter alia? 

You got me there. I should have known better than to quote Latin in the company of so many Romans...

Et al. is simply an abbreviation of et alia, so no error there.

OK - back to the poppycock.

[redhugh]

This thread is like fecking groundhog day!Give a little ground, gain a little ground,same thing next day and day after that again going on and on and on .Unrelenting with neither side being able to win,and so it spirals into a bitter war that neither side will concede defeat on ,so it grinds on and on ............sound familiar? Dulce et decorum est pro patria argumentum!?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Tut tut, as well as mangling an Irish county name, you're also mangling your (German) queen's latin: Do you mean et al., or inter alia? 

You got me there. I should have known better than to quote Latin in the company of so many Romans...

Et al. is simply an abbreviation of et alia, so no error there.

OK - back to the poppycock.

Not quite: et al. is an abbreviation of et alii (masc.), et aliæ (fem.), or et alia (neut.), so he should have used et alii in this case since he was referring to board posters, but et al. would have covered  them all