The Poppy

[Olaf]

I'm sure a few want to rub their noses in it but I'd also wager that the majority wear it for the 'proper reasons'.

Suspicion will never be lost in this country, that's for sure.

So is it just a case that unionists in the six counties are more patriotic and appreciative than the English?

It may be that some  Unionists in NI are more concerned to demonstrate their patriotism etc because their place in the UK has until recently been under greater challenge than that of their compatriots in England. I have no doubt, however, that there was an outpouring of overt patriotism throughout the UK during the Blitz of 1940, or the Falklands War in 1982, for instance.
Also, the Poppy has a particular resonance in NI following the Remembrance Day Massacre in Enniskillen in 1987. Perhaps that was the fault of Unionists, too? 

I dont buy that.

No, and you don't buy Poppies, either, yet you still take it upon yourself to dictate to those of us who do what our motives are. 

there ya go POG - enid cant back up his claim that it isnt badge wearing and the identifiable obviousness of the proportion of poppy wearers in the north of Ireland being more than those wearing poppies in england would go a long way to prove that it is indeed badge wearing and show that indeed it is indicative of the motives of these people (obviously some of these people would not be motivated by that but we all know the mindset of the oo/unionist/;loyalist fraternity in the north of Ireland !!  )

Notwithstanding the contradictory nature of this post you have demanded another poster to prove a negative - difficult job that one.

Your last line is stunning in its arrogance and is sweeping in the extreme.

[saffron sam2]

Third, if more people in NI display Poppies more often than people in certain parts of GB, then that may be explained by the fact that many more people in NI (from one community at least) have friends and relatives in the Armed Forces, including ones who have been killed or injured.

Genuine question. Is that true? Can you point to stats that back that fact up?

Not quickly or easily, no. However, I have little doubt that it is true, essentially for two reasons.

First, for political, social and economic reasons, the British Army (and Navy) have traditionally recruited disproportionately from the fringes of the UK (Scotland, Wales and Ireland). this explains why eg there are so many Irish Regiments; Enniskillen, for instance, is the only town in the entire British Isles which has had two Regiments named for it (Fusilleers and Dragoons). Or, it is a little known fact that 20% of Nelson's Navy at the battle of Trafalgar is estimated to have been made up of Irish sailors.

Second, during the Troubles, around 30,000 locals were recruited to "home service" regiments (UDR, RIR etc). When you add NI recruits to the "regular" Army, RAF, RN and TA etc, there cannot be too many families from the Unionist community at least, who have not had at least one reasonably close member with some sort of membership of the Armed Forces.

Can't and won't argue with any of that, but surely if  many more people here (from one side of the community at least) have friends and relatives in the (British) Armed Forces that would be enough to explain both a higher percentage of funds raised for the RBL and a higher percentage of poppy wearers. Would it not?

[delboy]

but we all know the mindset of the oo/unionist/;loyalist fraternity in the north of Ireland !!  )

So lots of people have this mind reading ability, well i never, is it something that you learnt in school (i must have been sick that day) or is it some sort of genetic inherited trait that only 'native' irish carry.

its a fairly obvious thing to most - as orange order parades and proportionately larger poppy wearing numbers are plain to see to europeans, English, yanks et all etc etc as well as us Irish !

So these mind reading skills also come with some sort of telepathy that allows you to commune with all peoples be they european, english or even 'yanks'!!

[delboy]

I'm sure a few want to rub their noses in it but I'd also wager that the majority wear it for the 'proper reasons'.

Suspicion will never be lost in this country, that's for sure.

So is it just a case that unionists in the six counties are more patriotic and appreciative than the English?

It may be that some  Unionists in NI are more concerned to demonstrate their patriotism etc because their place in the UK has until recently been under greater challenge than that of their compatriots in England. I have no doubt, however, that there was an outpouring of overt patriotism throughout the UK during the Blitz of 1940, or the Falklands War in 1982, for instance.
Also, the Poppy has a particular resonance in NI following the Remembrance Day Massacre in Enniskillen in 1987. Perhaps that was the fault of Unionists, too? 

I dont buy that.

No, and you don't buy Poppies, either, yet you still take it upon yourself to dictate to those of us who do what our motives are. 

there ya go POG - enid cant back up his claim that it isnt badge wearing and the identifiable obviousness of the proportion of poppy wearers in the north of Ireland being more than those wearing poppies in england would go a long way to prove that it is indeed badge wearing and show that indeed it is indicative of the motives of these people (obviously some of these people would not be motivated by that but we all know the mindset of the oo/unionist/;loyalist fraternity in the north of Ireland !!  )

Notwithstanding the contradictory nature of this post you have demanded another poster to prove a negative - difficult job that one.

Your last line is stunning in its arrogance and is sweeping in the extreme.

Ii don't think LB quite grasps the concept of unfalsifiable conjecture, he thinks his opinions are facts   

[lynchbhoy]

ok girls
come back to me with the stats that show that halloween and christmas are becomming more commercialised and that halloween is now a major 'celebbration' these days in comparison to before...
thats right there are no stats or facts to back this up - only visual or sales of stuff that may be displayed in houses or may not - neither of which prove what was bought etc
so the same goes for the wearing of the poppies - we all know that its worn proportionally more than in england from what we all witness by comparison in englands streets and in the streets of northern Ireland
conjecture !! 
ooo all over again you poor wee fellas !! 

[delboy]

Well I've said on here what my experiences are from living in England and have yet to get a explanation as to why there are far more poppies on display in the North than you would ever see here.  To clarify, again, I'm not talking about sales I'm talking about poppies being on display. 
Have you any suggestions why this is the case

First, you have produced no evidence to demonstrate that there are "far more" Poppies on display in NI than GB. By contrast, others have provided hard statistics to demonstrate that both the numbers of Poppies bought, and the money raised, in NI is broadly in line with that in GB.
Second, I would not trust your "experiences" - especially since they are contradicted by my own. I suspect you mean perception  rather than experience. For example, if you were drinking in a pub in the Outer Hebrides and two black guys walk in, you might do a "double take" before resuming your drink. But if you were in a pub in London, you wouldn't even notice. Yet its still the same number of black guys. Therefore, since you are clearly so sensitive to imagery and symbols etc, your perception alters accordingly.
Third, if more people in NI display Poppies more often than people in certain parts of GB, then that may be explained by the fact that many more people in NI (from one community at least) have friends and relatives in the Armed Forces, including ones who have been killed or injured.
Therefore, I daresay the incidence of Poppy-wearing in eg a multi-cultural, high immigrant inner city area of London may  be low, since the only military personnel locals or visitors see are guarding Buckingham Palace, or the Beefeaters in the Tower! But I guarantee that if you go to, say, Portsmouth, Aldershot, Colchester, Hereford, Catterick or the Scottish Borders etc, more people will be wearing Poppies than not.

or is is simply down to the fact that quite a few in NI want to rub the other sides noses in it?

Ah, here we get to the nub of the problem. Even if one of the motives of some Poppy wearers is to demonstrate their "Britishness", how is that "rubbing the other sides noses in it", any more than someone wearing a GAA top as a demonstration of his "Irishness" (Gaeldom?) might be perceived to be "rubbing the other sides noses in it"?
I am an Atheist, with no time for organised religion. Indeed, I find certain aspects of religious practice by the various Faiths to be objectionable to one degree or another.
But I have no right to project my feelings on others, or hold it against them in any way, merely because they might be displaying a Cross or Crescent, or wearing a Yamulka or Turban etc, since it is simply none of my business.

That's complete nonsense, I don't live in inner city London, I live in a rural English town that seems to be virtually untouched by immigrants, it also has some sort of army base (well I see dozens of soldiers out for their jog on my way to work most mornings).   For the third or fourth time I am not talking about poppy sales, I'm talking about people displaying poppies for the month of November.  Displaying and buying poppies are very different things, I'd throw money in to any of those charity boxes for daffodil day, breast cancer etc but probably wouldnt lift a badge never mind wear one, I'm sure it's same for people with the poppies.
What do you want me to do to prove you don't see that many here, take pictures of people not wearing poppies?  I don't see that many over here, either on sale or display.  You can't give me an reasonable explanation why that is the case and as a result I can only conclude that there are a lot of people in the North that wear poppies as a mark of identity.

POG i'll tell you how i see it, you have lived at one time in NI and have observed poppy wearing you now happen to live in a rural english town and based upon what you have seen you've made an observation that not as many people wear the poppy in that town. This has lead you to have an opinion that poppy wearing in NI is proportionally higher (i don't know where you stand on the badge of bitterness stuff and if you hold they same view as LB that poppy wearers are vile odious bigotted people, thats for another post).
To be honest in itself though thats pretty small beer, it really just a subjective observation based on one rural town and doesn't in itself constitute any evidence, down the pub you'd probably get an uninterested 'oh' from myself and maybe my own opinion on the matter bounced back to you.

Now say you tell me that you are a travelling salesman and that the job takes you all over the UK and that as a hobby you count poppy wearers (like some sort of nerdy trainspotting exercise). Then your opinion on the matter would hold a lot more weight, likely to be a lot of chinning stroking and maybe a reevaluation of my position.

Lets say though that you were actually employed by the poppy appeal to travel the UK and compile objective statistics on the number of poppy wearers, and the demographics that purchase them, then i'd have to say damn it POG you know your stuff, I'll have to change my thinking on that matter completely and have a pint of the black stuff for enlightening me.

Now in the real world not everybody is going to be working for the poppy appeal or whatever, that doesn't mean however that you can't express an opinion about something unless you are an expert merely that its just an opinion.
Obviously opinions differ and a discussion could become merely a bun throwing exercise of trading opinions back and forth, to lift it out of that mire though any individual could provide some evidence, you don't have to be the guy employed by the poppy appeal but that doesn't stop you quoting his stats or other such evidence. To take it back down the pub again if you stated an opinion and then backed it up with credibile evidence then again i'd have to rethink my position and buy you that pint of stout.

Simply really, unfortunately a lot of the discussion on here turns into a mere popularity contest, LB for instance labours under the impression that his opinions are facts simply because several other like minded people hold the same opinion, that doesn't make it true though. That sort of flabby minded thinking is the cause of a lot of problems especially in Ireland.     

[delboy]

ok girls
come back to me with the stats that show that halloween and christmas are becomming more commercialised and that halloween is now a major 'celebbration' these days in comparison to before...
thats right there are no stats or facts to back this up - only visual or sales of stuff that may be displayed in houses or may not - neither of which prove what was bought etc
so the same goes for the wearing of the poppies - we all know that its worn proportionally more than in england from what we all witness by comparison in englands streets and in the streets of northern Ireland
conjecture !! 
ooo all over again you poor wee fellas !! 

You really don't get it do you, you make a claim that you want to be held up as fact, you provide the evidence, its not incumbent upon the other person to falsify it (i told you he didnt grasp it olaf).

For slow learners (pay attention at the back there LB), say i make the claim that i have a magical invisible talking goat at the bottom of the garden, should i expect others to provide evidence that i don't  No in the real world the burden of proof would be on me (not in the world of LB though it seems  )

For what its worth thats a terrible example you've given, im pretty damn sure even though it isn't my job to that i could dig up some credible evidence to suggest that they are bigger in terms of monetary spend, unfortunately for your rather poor example/ass backwards test retailers do a lot of stats on what the purchasing habits of their customers are 

[saffron sam2]

At which ceremony/location was that photograph of Maskey taken?

Not sure of the ceremony, but the photo was taken he was Lord Mayor of Belfast. That's Belfast City Hall in the background. The point of introducing the photo was to highlight that like Merkel, it is possible to commemorate the war dead without having to subscribe to 'poppy fascism'.

Notwithstanding the greater significance of the fact that the two officers who are delivering him to where he richly belongs (prison) are also both wearing Poppies, I know for a fact that Unionists were overwhemingly disgusted that a sc**bag like Knight should have defiled a cherished symbol.

The reason for bringing Knight into the debate was to highlight the fact that there are many poppy wearers who have no idea whatsoever why they are wearing it. As you have pointed out (quite correctly) no-one knows the motive of any poppy wearer, but there can be no doubt that Knight or Irwin or Deeney were wearing it for the right reasons.

That said, regrettable though it is, it is not the first time such a symbol has been misappropriated for sick and twisted political ends in NI, as this photograph of the funeral of the murderous vermin, Thomas Begley, illustrates:

Not sure of the relevance of this bit, looks a bit like whataboutery. I'll happily discuss the abuse of national flags on the appropriate thread.

[lynchbhoy]

ok girls
come back to me with the stats that show that halloween and christmas are becomming more commercialised and that halloween is now a major 'celebbration' these days in comparison to before...
thats right there are no stats or facts to back this up - only visual or sales of stuff that may be displayed in houses or may not - neither of which prove what was bought etc
so the same goes for the wearing of the poppies - we all know that its worn proportionally more than in england from what we all witness by comparison in englands streets and in the streets of northern Ireland
conjecture !! 
ooo all over again you poor wee fellas !! 

You really don't get it do you, you make a claim that you want to be held up as fact, you provide the evidence, its not incumbent upon the other person to falsify it (i told you he didnt grasp it olaf).

For slow learners (pay attention at the back there LB), say i make the claim that i have a magical invisible talking goat at the bottom of the garden, should i expect others to provide evidence that i don't  No in the real world the burden of proof would be on me (not in the world of LB though it seems  )

For what its worth thats a terrible example you've given, im pretty damn sure even though it isn't my job to that i could dig up some credible evidence to suggest that they are bigger in terms of monetary spend, unfortunately for your rather poor example/ass backwards test retailers do a lot of stats on what the purchasing habits of their customers are 

so still not one shred of 'evidence' from you  ostrich brigade either
quelle surprise !
all deflection as per usual
come back to myself, main st, POG et al who had indeed witnessed the disparity with some actual answer and we can discuss then
until you do - keep on with you squirming !!

[windyshepardhenderson]

I see coleraine student union have reversed their decision on the sales of the easter lily because of protests from some pathetic unionists...equality commission states: ...symbols with the potential to disrupt a good and harmonious working environment..."such symbols are those directly linked to community conflict in the north and/or politics..."

now given the disgraceful murderous legacy left by her majesty's forces during the troubles, does the poppy not fall under this category? bearing in mind it is sold to honour all serving & former soldiers (2 bloody sundays, ballymurphy, springhill massacres etc etc) Where is the equality in that?

And yes i did read the irish news

[delboy]

I see coleraine student union have reversed their decision on the sales of the easter lily because of protests from some pathetic unionists...equality commission states: ...symbols with the potential to disrupt a good and harmonious working environment..."such symbols are those directly linked to community conflict in the north and/or politics..."

now given the disgraceful murderous legacy left by her majesty's forces during the troubles, does the poppy not fall under this category? bearing in mind it is sold to honour all serving & former soldiers (2 bloody sundays, ballymurphy, springhill massacres etc etc) Where is the equality in that?

And yes i did read the irish news

If you think so why not try to do something about it, by the talk of some on here such as LB it should be any easy job to take the poppy appeal to the cleaners on the basis of incitement to hatred.
Personally I don't think you have a case but im sure believers like LB would stand shoulder to shoulder with you in your endevaour.

[delboy]

ok girls
come back to me with the stats that show that halloween and christmas are becomming more commercialised and that halloween is now a major 'celebbration' these days in comparison to before...
thats right there are no stats or facts to back this up - only visual or sales of stuff that may be displayed in houses or may not - neither of which prove what was bought etc
so the same goes for the wearing of the poppies - we all know that its worn proportionally more than in england from what we all witness by comparison in englands streets and in the streets of northern Ireland
conjecture !! 
ooo all over again you poor wee fellas !! 

You really don't get it do you, you make a claim that you want to be held up as fact, you provide the evidence, its not incumbent upon the other person to falsify it (i told you he didnt grasp it olaf).

For slow learners (pay attention at the back there LB), say i make the claim that i have a magical invisible talking goat at the bottom of the garden, should i expect others to provide evidence that i don't  No in the real world the burden of proof would be on me (not in the world of LB though it seems  )

For what its worth thats a terrible example you've given, im pretty damn sure even though it isn't my job to that i could dig up some credible evidence to suggest that they are bigger in terms of monetary spend, unfortunately for your rather poor example/ass backwards test retailers do a lot of stats on what the purchasing habits of their customers are 

so still not one shred of 'evidence' from you  ostrich brigade either
quelle surprise !
all deflection as per usual
come back to myself, main st, POG et al who had indeed witnessed the disparity with some actual answer and we can discuss then
until you do - keep on with you squirming !!

This is becoming tiresome, i don't even have to provide any evidence, any claims i made on this thread about poppy wearing are my opinion, i never tried to dress them up as facts unlike yourself, if you want your opinion to be accepted as fact then back it up with evidence, put up or shut up!!

BTW took me about five seconds to find this on halloween, you don't half talk a load of old toot.

A healthy 5.4 % rise in spending from in 2004-2005, the internet is awash with lots of sources backed up with credible evidence to show that halloween is a growing commercial holiday.

   
   
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Posted 10/11/2005 11:45 PM     Updated 10/12/2005 10:14 AM
   

Halloween scares up adults' dough
By Laura Petrecca, USA TODAY
Here's something scary: Halloween is continuing to grow as a treat more for adults than for kids.
      Universal Studios Theme Park in Orlando projects that its Halloween Horror Nights' attendance will be up about 50% from five years ago.    

This year, Americans will shell out $3.3 billion on Halloween-related merchandise, according to a study from the National Retail Federation and BIGresearch. At a time when some areas of retail spending are tepid, that's a healthy 5.4% rise over 2004. Continuing to drive the growth: adults treating themselves to outrageous get-ups, elaborate home décor, expensive Halloween night festivities — even creative pet costumes.

"Halloween is no longer considered a children's holiday," says Phil Rist, BIGresearch's head of strategy research. He says that adults now look at Halloween whimsy as a way to ease the stress of work and everyday life. "It's one of those holidays where lots of people escape for a bit and become someone else for a day."
         
         
   
      

Retailers are seeing another big uptick this year in costume sales for adults. At iParty, which operates 50 stores in seven states, adult sales are brisk. Last year's adult costume sales pushed sales growth to 42% since 2001 on an average store basis. Child costume sales rose 24% over the same period.

"Adults are definitely celebrating the holiday more than ever before," says iParty CEO Sal Perisano. He says that ranges from young adult partiers to baby boomers.

Alicia Byrd, a 24-year-old Rhode Island law student, is one of those avid younger shoppers. Last year, she spent $200 each on two costumes — she was a cop for one Halloween party and a nurse for another. On a recent Saturday, she was at a New York City costume store to check out garb for this year. "I love Halloween," she says.

Universal Studios Theme Park in Orlando has cast a spell over adult spending with its Halloween Horror Nights. Attendance this year is projected to be up some 50% compared with 2000, and about 80% of its tickets are sold to people ages 18 and older. Single-night tickets go for about $60; it would not disclose total tickets sold.

Parents continue to shell out for kids' costumes and trick-or-treat candy, but as that market (and growth in the number of kids) levels off, more companies are working to scare up adult sales:

•Chips vs. candy. The Snack Food Association considers the adult market a growth area, says CEO Jim McCarthy. It launched a trade effort with members to encourage more in-store promotion this month for salty and savory snacks.
    TOP ADULT COSTUMES
      
More than half of consumers are planning to buy a costume this Halloween. The most popular adult costumes for 2005:
1    Witch    16.4%
2    Vampire    6.0%
3    Actor/Famous person    3.3%
4    Monster    3.0%
5    Pirate    2.4%
6    Angel    2.3%
7    Clown    2.3%
8    Ghost/Ghoul    2.1%
9    Zombie    2.1%
10    Renaissance costume    2.0%
Source: 2005 Halloween Consumer Intentions and Actions Survey by the National Retail Federation and BIGresearch

"Certainly, it's a huge time for parties and other events beyond trick or treating," says Chris Clark, SFA head of operations. "There's an opportunity to have lots of chips, popcorn and pretzels."

PepsiCo's Frito-Lay just introduced its first adult-targeted Halloween promotion. "This is a huge adult party day," says Frito-Lay spokesman Jared Dougherty. He says the company ranks Halloween as its "third-largest party day after New Year's and Super Bowl."

Even candymakers are looking for growth in the adult market. M&M and Twix maker Masterfoods USA launched a "You've been Boo'd" campaign encouraging consumers to create goody bags filled with chocolate treats for neighbors, friends and family throughout October.

•Mass and specialty retailers. Retail outlets are increasingly catering to the whims of adults by offering home decorations that range from tasteful to tacky, as well as a spate of costumes for grownups and their pets.
     HALLOWEEN BY THE NUMBERS       
$3.29 billion: Estimated Halloween spending this year, making it No. 6 of holidays in terms of spending. The average consumer expects to spend $48.48 in 2005.
25: 2004 per capita candy consumption in pounds. Halloween tops the list of holidays for candy sales.
80: Percentage of candy bought for Halloween that is chocolate. Most are the smaller, "fun size" bars.
47: Percentage of people who expect to decorate their home or yard for Halloween this year.
998 million: Pounds of pumpkins from states that were major pumpkin producers in 2004. Illinois led the pack, and the total value of those pumpkins was $100 million.

Sources: Gannett News Service, National Retail Federation, National Confectioners Association, U.S. Census Bureau, U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Howard Beige, an executive vice president at costume and party supply maker Rubie's Costume says demand for adult costumes — as well as for more mature makeup, wigs and other accessories — is soaring among his retail clients.

Specialty shops across the country have set up temporary, or "pop-up," stores to cater to the consumer's call for creepy wares. New York City's Halloween Adventure just opened 70 temporary locations in the area.

Mass merchants are bulking up in-store and Web offerings, as well. Target now offers its first dog costumes on its website. It also expanded its home décor items. With Halloween the second-biggest decorating holiday of the year behind Christmas, according to the NRF, other retailers are offering a large range of ghoulish home goods, as well.

"Home décor is more popular than ever for this time of year," says Wal-Mart spokeswoman Karen Burk.

Sean Healy and his wife, Victoria, are snapping up Halloween decorations. They've adorned their Ho Ho Kus, N.J., home with orange lights, gravestones and a 7-foot Frankenstein's monster. Inside, they have fake limbs coming out of their couch and spider webs weaving through the chandeliers.

Sean says he'll spend a couple hundred dollars this year on decorations. "Once I started to go out and see the variety of decorations available, I couldn't help myself," he says.

[windyshepardhenderson]

I see coleraine student union have reversed their decision on the sales of the easter lily because of protests from some pathetic unionists...equality commission states: ...symbols with the potential to disrupt a good and harmonious working environment..."such symbols are those directly linked to community conflict in the north and/or politics..."

now given the disgraceful murderous legacy left by her majesty's forces during the troubles, does the poppy not fall under this category? bearing in mind it is sold to honour all serving & former soldiers (2 bloody sundays, ballymurphy, springhill massacres etc etc) Where is the equality in that?

And yes i did read the irish news

If you think so why not try to do something about it, by the talk of some on here such as LB it should be any easy job to take the poppy appeal to the cleaners on the basis of incitement to hatred.
Personally I don't think you have a case but im sure believers like LB would stand shoulder to shoulder with you in your endevaour.

You may not think i have a valid case but then again that is hardly surprising as many unionists choose to deliberately ignore state murders of civilians. im sure many people wear the poppy for proper reasons but i feel the young unionists involved in this dispute are more concerned about degrading the easter lily (getting a victory over the other side as alastair o'hara put it) than they are about actually commerating their war dead (Sure isnt that what its for )

i will be making contact with those involved to air my views, the su and OSF. i'll keep u posted if u want

[delboy]

I see coleraine student union have reversed their decision on the sales of the easter lily because of protests from some pathetic unionists...equality commission states: ...symbols with the potential to disrupt a good and harmonious working environment..."such symbols are those directly linked to community conflict in the north and/or politics..."

now given the disgraceful murderous legacy left by her majesty's forces during the troubles, does the poppy not fall under this category? bearing in mind it is sold to honour all serving & former soldiers (2 bloody sundays, ballymurphy, springhill massacres etc etc) Where is the equality in that?

And yes i did read the irish news

If you think so why not try to do something about it, by the talk of some on here such as LB it should be any easy job to take the poppy appeal to the cleaners on the basis of incitement to hatred.
Personally I don't think you have a case but im sure believers like LB would stand shoulder to shoulder with you in your endevaour.

You may not think i have a valid case but then again that is hardly surprising as many unionists choose to deliberately ignore state murders of civilians. im sure many people wear the poppy for proper reasons but i feel the young unionists involved in this dispute are more concerned about degrading the easter lily (getting a victory over the other side as alastair o'hara put it) than they are about actually commerating their war dead (Sure isnt that what its for )

i will be making contact with those involved to air my views, the su and OSF. i'll keep u posted if u want

Go for it i think your opinion is as worthy as mine (unlike many on here) have your day in court so to speak, i'd have a lot more respect for someone that actually tried to make their case for something rather than just bleating out opinions as facts.

[lynchbhoy]

ok girls
come back to me with the stats that show that halloween and christmas are becomming more commercialised and that halloween is now a major 'celebbration' these days in comparison to before...
thats right there are no stats or facts to back this up - only visual or sales of stuff that may be displayed in houses or may not - neither of which prove what was bought etc
so the same goes for the wearing of the poppies - we all know that its worn proportionally more than in england from what we all witness by comparison in englands streets and in the streets of northern Ireland
conjecture !! 
ooo all over again you poor wee fellas !! 

You really don't get it do you, you make a claim that you want to be held up as fact, you provide the evidence, its not incumbent upon the other person to falsify it (i told you he didnt grasp it olaf).

For slow learners (pay attention at the back there LB), say i make the claim that i have a magical invisible talking goat at the bottom of the garden, should i expect others to provide evidence that i don't  No in the real world the burden of proof would be on me (not in the world of LB though it seems  )

For what its worth thats a terrible example you've given, im pretty damn sure even though it isn't my job to that i could dig up some credible evidence to suggest that they are bigger in terms of monetary spend, unfortunately for your rather poor example/ass backwards test retailers do a lot of stats on what the purchasing habits of their customers are 

so still not one shred of 'evidence' from you  ostrich brigade either
quelle surprise !
all deflection as per usual
come back to myself, main st, POG et al who had indeed witnessed the disparity with some actual answer and we can discuss then
until you do - keep on with you squirming !!

This is becoming tiresome, i don't even have to provide any evidence, any claims i made on this thread about poppy wearing are my opinion, i never tried to dress them up as facts unlike yourself, if you want your opinion to be accepted as fact then back it up with evidence, put up or shut up!!

BTW took me about five seconds to find this on halloween, you don't half talk a load of old toot.

A healthy 5.4 % rise in spending from in 2004-2005, the internet is awash with lots of sources backed up with credible evidence to show that halloween is a growing commercial holiday.

   
   
Get a quote:        
   Your portfolio - Log in
   
Posted 10/11/2005 11:45 PM     Updated 10/12/2005 10:14 AM
   

Halloween scares up adults' dough
By Laura Petrecca, USA TODAY
Here's something scary: Halloween is continuing to grow as a treat more for adults than for kids.
      Universal Studios Theme Park in Orlando projects that its Halloween Horror Nights' attendance will be up about 50% from five years ago.    

This year, Americans will shell out $3.3 billion on Halloween-related merchandise, according to a study from the National Retail Federation and BIGresearch. At a time when some areas of retail spending are tepid, that's a healthy 5.4% rise over 2004. Continuing to drive the growth: adults treating themselves to outrageous get-ups, elaborate home décor, expensive Halloween night festivities — even creative pet costumes.

"Halloween is no longer considered a children's holiday," says Phil Rist, BIGresearch's head of strategy research. He says that adults now look at Halloween whimsy as a way to ease the stress of work and everyday life. "It's one of those holidays where lots of people escape for a bit and become someone else for a day."
         
         
   
      

Retailers are seeing another big uptick this year in costume sales for adults. At iParty, which operates 50 stores in seven states, adult sales are brisk. Last year's adult costume sales pushed sales growth to 42% since 2001 on an average store basis. Child costume sales rose 24% over the same period.

"Adults are definitely celebrating the holiday more than ever before," says iParty CEO Sal Perisano. He says that ranges from young adult partiers to baby boomers.

Alicia Byrd, a 24-year-old Rhode Island law student, is one of those avid younger shoppers. Last year, she spent $200 each on two costumes — she was a cop for one Halloween party and a nurse for another. On a recent Saturday, she was at a New York City costume store to check out garb for this year. "I love Halloween," she says.

Universal Studios Theme Park in Orlando has cast a spell over adult spending with its Halloween Horror Nights. Attendance this year is projected to be up some 50% compared with 2000, and about 80% of its tickets are sold to people ages 18 and older. Single-night tickets go for about $60; it would not disclose total tickets sold.

Parents continue to shell out for kids' costumes and trick-or-treat candy, but as that market (and growth in the number of kids) levels off, more companies are working to scare up adult sales:

•Chips vs. candy. The Snack Food Association considers the adult market a growth area, says CEO Jim McCarthy. It launched a trade effort with members to encourage more in-store promotion this month for salty and savory snacks.
    TOP ADULT COSTUMES
      
More than half of consumers are planning to buy a costume this Halloween. The most popular adult costumes for 2005:
1    Witch    16.4%
2    Vampire    6.0%
3    Actor/Famous person    3.3%
4    Monster    3.0%
5    Pirate    2.4%
6    Angel    2.3%
7    Clown    2.3%
8    Ghost/Ghoul    2.1%
9    Zombie    2.1%
10    Renaissance costume    2.0%
Source: 2005 Halloween Consumer Intentions and Actions Survey by the National Retail Federation and BIGresearch

"Certainly, it's a huge time for parties and other events beyond trick or treating," says Chris Clark, SFA head of operations. "There's an opportunity to have lots of chips, popcorn and pretzels."

PepsiCo's Frito-Lay just introduced its first adult-targeted Halloween promotion. "This is a huge adult party day," says Frito-Lay spokesman Jared Dougherty. He says the company ranks Halloween as its "third-largest party day after New Year's and Super Bowl."

Even candymakers are looking for growth in the adult market. M&M and Twix maker Masterfoods USA launched a "You've been Boo'd" campaign encouraging consumers to create goody bags filled with chocolate treats for neighbors, friends and family throughout October.

•Mass and specialty retailers. Retail outlets are increasingly catering to the whims of adults by offering home decorations that range from tasteful to tacky, as well as a spate of costumes for grownups and their pets.
     HALLOWEEN BY THE NUMBERS       
$3.29 billion: Estimated Halloween spending this year, making it No. 6 of holidays in terms of spending. The average consumer expects to spend $48.48 in 2005.
25: 2004 per capita candy consumption in pounds. Halloween tops the list of holidays for candy sales.
80: Percentage of candy bought for Halloween that is chocolate. Most are the smaller, "fun size" bars.
47: Percentage of people who expect to decorate their home or yard for Halloween this year.
998 million: Pounds of pumpkins from states that were major pumpkin producers in 2004. Illinois led the pack, and the total value of those pumpkins was $100 million.

Sources: Gannett News Service, National Retail Federation, National Confectioners Association, U.S. Census Bureau, U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Howard Beige, an executive vice president at costume and party supply maker Rubie's Costume says demand for adult costumes — as well as for more mature makeup, wigs and other accessories — is soaring among his retail clients.

Specialty shops across the country have set up temporary, or "pop-up," stores to cater to the consumer's call for creepy wares. New York City's Halloween Adventure just opened 70 temporary locations in the area.

Mass merchants are bulking up in-store and Web offerings, as well. Target now offers its first dog costumes on its website. It also expanded its home décor items. With Halloween the second-biggest decorating holiday of the year behind Christmas, according to the NRF, other retailers are offering a large range of ghoulish home goods, as well.

"Home décor is more popular than ever for this time of year," says Wal-Mart spokeswoman Karen Burk.

Sean Healy and his wife, Victoria, are snapping up Halloween decorations. They've adorned their Ho Ho Kus, N.J., home with orange lights, gravestones and a 7-foot Frankenstein's monster. Inside, they have fake limbs coming out of their couch and spider webs weaving through the chandeliers.

Sean says he'll spend a couple hundred dollars this year on decorations. "Once I started to go out and see the variety of decorations available, I couldn't help myself," he says.

and this shows us how exactly that Ireland and england have undergone a significant increase in all things halloween in comparison to 10 -15 years ago (note same kind of timeframe as the emergence of poppyfest/poppymonth from virtually nothing to near Christmas day poportions for some of the ooo)  when there were effectively no such 'celebrations' on the current kind of scale ?
Quantifiable, or is it just a visual metric as we have with the poppy !

sorry but your deflection tactic is for the wrong country and contained no answer or indeed info relevant to the actual question - you have obv learned from enid !
case closed - hard luck wee lads !