The Poppy

[Zapatista]

Of course there is such a thing as a southern Unionist.Do you not think that Orangemen living in the 26 counties would consider themselves Unionist ?Do you not appreciate that these people would rather the link with the UK had been maintained throughout the 32 counties.?Check out the Reform movement for a bit of an insight into Southern Unionist thinking.It's not as black and white as you appear to think.

You don't have to be an Orangeman to be a Unionist in the south. Enda Kenny and his party members are Unionists.

[Aerlik]

By suggesting/stating that the poppy is worn to commemorate all the dead of all wars, and by including the RUC and UDR, this clearly recognises that Irish Republicans were fighting in legitimate wars;  but we were told it was terrorism. 

Maybe the BBC's decision to describe (formerly) 'terrorists' (sic) as 'paramilitaries' (sic) is saying something.  jayzus there could be ones getting a pension yet

[delboy]

But the fact is that while you convince yourself that everyone in the north wears the poppy for the right reason, the rest of us know that a disproportionate number of people (from the one community) in the north wear it, compared to anywhere else why?
Would it be maybe the elephant in the room that you avoid - some unionist/loyalist/protestant people in the north wear it as a "badge of honour" or if you like, a "feck you, we're still here" badge.

I don't have to convnce myself, i know what i think in my head and i can tell you that i could'nt give a flying f**k about putting two fingers up to this or that community. I've bigger issues like paying the mortgage etc to worry about. Whats more i don't honestly know a single person that has this 'that'll show them attitude (maybe i just hangout with well adjusted people).
There probably is some morons out there that were it as a badge, but a majority!! thats just idle prejudiced speculation, those that do though are just the other side of the coin to the poppy haters on here caught up in their own mire of bigotry and prejudice.

[delboy]

delboy, this isn't a court of law.  This is a forum on the internet.  I hope you can see the difference.  In other words, I don't have to prove a thing to you, I made a statement which I will stand by because I believe it to be factual based on evidence I see everyday in the real world

I didn't say that everyone who wears the poppy does so on those grounds, I am sure that people in England, Wales and Scotland would wear it for their own reasons which would have nothing to do with being a badge of Britishness.  I believe that honour goes to some small-minded northern unionists - I don't think that all unionists who wear it do so as a badge of their Britishness, just the majority of thos who wear it

Rejecting the poppy because of what it stands for doesn't make me a better or worse Irishman, just an honest one

That's my opinion, you may not like it and you may not agree with me but that is my opinion

So your come back is that this is an internet forum and therefore you should be allowed to make all sorts of claims and not have to back them up with any evidence.
That's fair enough but without any evidence to back them up, they are essentially worthless.

That's very generous of you to say that some people don't wear the poppy as some sort of fingers up to you, and that its only the small minded Northern Unionists that do (is there any southern ones anyway? whats with adding the northern?) and a majority at that. Yet another mind reader on here that would give Derren Brown a run for his money, i swear the talent on here is wasted.

Get a grip not everybody goes through their life thinking how they can get one up on the other half or how we could go out of our way to rub their noses in it, some of us don't engage in such petty nonsense (i pity you that you obviously do) some of us have other things to worry about, something called a life.

Of course there is such a thing as a southern Unionist.Do you not think that Orangemen living in the 26 counties would consider themselves Unionist ?Do you not appreciate that these people would rather the link with the UK had been maintained throughout the 32 counties.?Check out the Reform movement for a bit of an insight into Southern Unionist thinking.It's not as black and white as you appear to think.

Do they? I genuinely don't know, I would be interested to read any links to the orange order in the republic of ireland and their position on unification of ireland to the UK.

[Tony Baloney]

O'Neill do the humane thing and put this dog out of its misery.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Do they? I genuinely don't know, I would be interested to read any links to the orange order in the republic of ireland and their position on unification of ireland to the UK.

Check this out delboy:

Dublin and Wicklow Orangemen

[delboy]

Do they? I genuinely don't know, I would be interested to read any links to the orange order in the republic of ireland and their position on unification of ireland to the UK.

Check this out delboy:

Dublin and Wicklow Orangemen

A lot of stuff about wanting a reformation day etc, can't see anyhting about reunification with the UK, i have a meeting to scoot off to, if you can link to the reunification stuff i'll read it when i come back.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

some unionist/loyalist/protestant people in the north wear it as a "badge of honour" or if you like, a "feck you, we're still here" badge.

Anyone who thinks that noone does it for this reason is deluded.
I do think it is insulting to many people the suggestion that the vast majority do it as a "feck you" which has been suggested by some on this thead

Nifan, I know its not the vast majority, but to listen to some on here you'd think it was nobody.

[Hardy]

Of course there is such a thing as a southern Unionist.Do you not think that Orangemen living in the 26 counties would consider themselves Unionist ?Do you not appreciate that these people would rather the link with the UK had been maintained throughout the 32 counties.?Check out the Reform movement for a bit of an insight into Southern Unionist thinking.It's not as black and white as you appear to think.

You don't have to be an Orangeman to be a Unionist in the south. Enda Kenny and his party members are Unionists.

Yes - firm grasp on reality there - the party that declared the republic is in fact a unionist party.

Dev was a secret agent for the Brits, you know. He was also a nazi sympathiser.

Your turn.

[lynchbhoy]

But the fact is that while you convince yourself that everyone in the north wears the poppy for the right reason, the rest of us know that a disproportionate number of people (from the one community) in the north wear it, compared to anywhere else why?
Would it be maybe the elephant in the room that you avoid - some unionist/loyalist/protestant people in the north wear it as a "badge of honour" or if you like, a "feck you, we're still here" badge.

I don't have to convnce myself, i know what i think in my head and i can tell you that i could'nt give a flying f**k about putting two fingers up to this or that community. I've bigger issues like paying the mortgage etc to worry about. Whats more i don't honestly know a single person that has this 'that'll show them attitude (maybe i just hangout with well adjusted people).
There probably is some morons out there that were it as a badge, but a majority!! thats just idle prejudiced speculation, those that do though are just the other side of the coin to the poppy haters on here caught up in their own mire of bigotry and prejudice.

...or simply compare the wearing of poppies to that in England, how many and for the duration they are worn.
by contrast the poppy wearers in the north of Ireland would be seen to wear them for much longer duration, and on more of the population  !!
thats real life.
I'd have respect for those ex servicepeople in England but the badgewearing by too many in the north of Ireland wreck it for those who wear them for the 'right reasons'.

Good to hear that the poppy commemorates all in all the wars so our 'Fenian dead' are also commemorated. Might even buy a poppy next year too !!!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

A lot of stuff about wanting a reformation day etc, can't see anyhting about reunification with the UK, i have a meeting to scoot off to, if you can link to the reunification stuff i'll read it when i come back.

True, they don't seem to mention it there (a taboo perhaps).

But here:

WIKI United Ireland

May have more info, for example:


Reform Movement and lodges of the Orange Order in the Republic of Ireland, that are sympathetic to Northern Ireland remaining within the UK for the foreseeable future, but their impact on the broader political opinion is negligible.

[delboy]

A lot of stuff about wanting a reformation day etc, can't see anyhting about reunification with the UK, i have a meeting to scoot off to, if you can link to the reunification stuff i'll read it when i come back.

True, they don't seem to mention it there (a taboo perhaps).

But here:

WIKI United Ireland

May have more info, for example:


Reform Movement and lodges of the Orange Order in the Republic of Ireland, that are sympathetic to Northern Ireland remaining within the UK for the foreseeable future, but their impact on the broader political opinion is negligible.

Found this on the FAQ section of that website


2. Are you anti-Irish?
No. We consider ourselves very proud Irishmen, albetit with the added British dimension. We welcome Mary McAleese's recent comments that "It is possible to be both Irish and British, possible to be both Orange and Irish. We face into a landscape of new possibilities and understandings."

4. Are you anti-republican?

No. It comes as a great surprise to some that the Orange Order flourishes in countries which are Republics. In the United States of America, the Republic of Togo, the Republic of Ghana as well as the Republic of Ireland, you will find Orange associations and societies. This is because the Orange Movement at its core is about Reformed Christianity and how this relates to society. The idea of 'Civil and Religious liberties for all' has spread right throughout the world, and brought immense freedom to many, not least republics.

They certainly don't seem to be overtly calling for the reunification of ireland to the UK.


Ta for the other links i'll get a nosy through them later.

[delboy]

But the fact is that while you convince yourself that everyone in the north wears the poppy for the right reason, the rest of us know that a disproportionate number of people (from the one community) in the north wear it, compared to anywhere else why?
Would it be maybe the elephant in the room that you avoid - some unionist/loyalist/protestant people in the north wear it as a "badge of honour" or if you like, a "feck you, we're still here" badge.

I don't have to convnce myself, i know what i think in my head and i can tell you that i could'nt give a flying f**k about putting two fingers up to this or that community. I've bigger issues like paying the mortgage etc to worry about. Whats more i don't honestly know a single person that has this 'that'll show them attitude (maybe i just hangout with well adjusted people).
There probably is some morons out there that were it as a badge, but a majority!! thats just idle prejudiced speculation, those that do though are just the other side of the coin to the poppy haters on here caught up in their own mire of bigotry and prejudice.

...or simply compare the wearing of poppies to that in England, how many and for the duration they are worn.
by contrast the poppy wearers in the north of Ireland would be seen to wear them for much longer duration, and on more of the population  !!
thats real life.
I'd have respect for those ex servicepeople in England but the badgewearing by too many in the north of Ireland wreck it for those who wear them for the 'right reasons'.

Good to hear that the poppy commemorates all in all the wars so our 'Fenian dead' are also commemorated. Might even buy a poppy next year too !!!

Any figures to back that up or is it just more of the same old opinions trotted out as facts again?

[delboy]

some unionist/loyalist/protestant people in the north wear it as a "badge of honour" or if you like, a "feck you, we're still here" badge.

Anyone who thinks that noone does it for this reason is deluded.
I do think it is insulting to many people the suggestion that the vast majority do it as a "feck you" which has been suggested by some on this thead

Nifan, I know its not the vast majority, but to listen to some on here you'd think it was nobody.

So its not the vast majority, care to put a figure on how many you think (know  ) it is?

[Zapatista]

Yes - firm grasp on reality there - the party that declared the republic is in fact a unionist party.

Dev was a secret agent for the Brits, you know. He was also a nazi sympathiser.

Your turn.

A Unionist is someone who wants a Union with Britan. FG want this. They also want the status quo with the north under British control. This makes them Unionists.