Over 70% want championship open draw

[Sionnach]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/

Currently 71% on RTÉ's poll are in favour after 6128 votes, seems a pretty emphatic margin though of course it doesn't prove that percentage of the population / of supporters want it. What would the views be like here?

[ExiledGael]

Never ever ever should be allowed to happen.
There are few enough prizes in the GAA and it's not all about the big three of four or whatever the media say.
Just because Dublin, Cork, Armagh or Tyrone don't get the same thrill out of a provincial title doesn't mean it should be scrapped.
It's the same argument for the big soccer clubs in Europe talking about super league bull-shit. Probably would mean more revenue for them but it doesn't give one shit for the supporter or the long term good of the game. The time will come again when Armagh and some of thre rest will be very happy with a provincial title.
You could name 15 counties at least where a provincial title would mean the absolute world to them and something they would celebrate for the next 50 years, us (Fermanagh) at the top of the list.

[Rossfan]

Wouldnt there have been some excitement last July if Kildare,Limerick or Antrim or even all 3 had won their Provincial Finals or think what it would have meant to Fermanagh if they had won Ulster in 2008.
I was in the Hyde when Sligo won the Connacht Final in 2007 and saw what it meant to them. I know what Connacht meant to us in 2001.
No matter what system is used for the All Ireland in the future the Provincials have to be kept even if as totally stand alone competitions. 

[armaghniac]

As ExiledGael said there are few enough things to win in GAA. In any one year only 3 or 4 counties have a real chance of bagging Sam and over the next decade no more than 10 counties have any real chance. Provincial titles offer something to aim for. Kildare, Monaghan etc are competitive counties that would be happy enough with a provincial for now.

[Zapatista]

Never ever ever should be allowed to happen.
There are few enough prizes in the GAA and it's not all about the big three of four or whatever the media say.
Just because Dublin, Cork, Armagh or Tyrone don't get the same thrill out of a provincial title doesn't mean it should be scrapped.
It's the same argument for the big soccer clubs in Europe talking about super league bull-shit. Probably would mean more revenue for them but it doesn't give one shit for the supporter or the long term good of the game. The time will come again when Armagh and some of thre rest will be very happy with a provincial title.
You could name 15 counties at least where a provincial title would mean the absolute world to them and something they would celebrate for the next 50 years, us (Fermanagh) at the top of the list.

Can't argue with that.

[Bogball XV]

Never ever ever should be allowed to happen.
There are few enough prizes in the GAA and it's not all about the big three of four or whatever the media say.
Just because Dublin, Cork, Armagh or Tyrone don't get the same thrill out of a provincial title doesn't mean it should be scrapped.
It's the same argument for the big soccer clubs in Europe talking about super league bull-shit. Probably would mean more revenue for them but it doesn't give one shit for the supporter or the long term good of the game. The time will come again when Armagh and some of thre rest will be very happy with a provincial title.
You could name 15 counties at least where a provincial title would mean the absolute world to them and something they would celebrate for the next 50 years, us (Fermanagh) at the top of the list.

Can't argue with that.

well i could, but sure anyone agreeing with that misty eyed twaddle will hardly listen, surely if for nothing else but the good of the native dairy populations in these counties it would be better if they won nothing?
But, since it's big shiny things they want, if we award cups for reaching the all ireland semis in our new open draw, would that keep the less ambitious counties happy?  As Armagh and the Dubs can tell you, the lustre of the big cup wears off pretty quickly

[Zulu]

Never ever ever should be allowed to happen.
There are few enough prizes in the GAA and it's not all about the big three of four or whatever the media say.
Just because Dublin, Cork, Armagh or Tyrone don't get the same thrill out of a provincial title doesn't mean it should be scrapped.
It's the same argument for the big soccer clubs in Europe talking about super league bull-shit. Probably would mean more revenue for them but it doesn't give one shit for the supporter or the long term good of the game. The time will come again when Armagh and some of thre rest will be very happy with a provincial title.
You could name 15 counties at least where a provincial title would mean the absolute world to them and something they would celebrate for the next 50 years, us (Fermanagh) at the top of the list.

So you think that we should retain an unequal system that produces many repeat games each year on the off chance that Fermanagh, Limerick, Leitrim or Carlow will win a provincial title?

[AZOffaly]

I do, on the off chance that Offaly will win one in either code. It's the hope that keeps you going

[Zulu]

Provincial championships can be played as stand alone competitions if you want but the continued link between them and the championship is nothing short of a joke.

[AZOffaly]

Provincial championships can be played as stand alone competitions if you want but the continued link between them and the championship is nothing short of a joke.

Fair enough.

The problem is, that like the Premiership, there is feck all chance of a low-mid team like Offaly winning an All Ireland in football unless we can build towards something, and that something has to be tangible. Offaly winning a Leinster is an achievable aim, even now in these dark times for us. An All Ireland isn't.

[Rossfan]

What's wrong with seeding the 4 Provincial Champions e.g in whatever system of an All Ireland Championship which follows?
Why does it have to be either the Provincials being an integral part of the All Ireland process as at present or else no connection whatsoever?

[AZOffaly]

Actually, I'd nearly be tempted to do away with the qualifiers in their present form, and keep the 'back doors' at Provincial Level. Only allowing first round losers back into the hat. Everyone else is one defeat from being out.

Take Leinster for example, 11 teams. Open draw. 5 games with 1 bye. The 5 losers play each other in a 'back door' draw, including the team with the bye. The 5 winners await the teams that come out of those 3 games in the 1/4 finals. Straight knock out from there to September. 4 Provincial Winners, 2 semi finals and a final.

Munster, 6 teams. 3 matches. 3 teams into the semis. 3 losers play elimination games until 1 remains, and they go into the semis with the other 3.

Connacht, 7 teams. 3 matches - winners into semis. 3 losers plus 1 'bye' team in 2 semis + final to get 1 team extra for 4 provincial semi finals.

Ulster 9 teams. Hmm. Awkward. Can't be bothered to do the maths on that one, but I'm sure you could come up with something.

In fact, theoretically the Championships in each province could be completely different. The provincial councils run them. If the GAA said 'lads, we're having no more qualifiers at national level , it's up to you to give us a provincial champion by the 2nd week in August, and ye can decide how yourselves' then each province could work with the counties to decide on something like mine, or in Ulster, maybe a round robin type competition with two groups and an Ulster Final, whatever.

[Zulu]

Fair enough.

The problem is, that like the Premiership, there is feck all chance of a low-mid team like Offaly winning an All Ireland in football unless we can build towards something, and that something has to be tangible. Offaly winning a Leinster is an achievable aim, even now in these dark times for us. An All Ireland isn't.

Which is where the leagues come in, it is crazy that the majority of games most IC players play are of the 'glorified challenge match' variety. The league and championship should be (and can be) the main competitions in the IC calander this way Offaly (or any other weaker team) have something to aim for, i.e. win their league/get promotion and do well in the championship. As with everything in life there isn't a perfect solution but the provincial championships are the cornerstone on which an unequal, predictable and unsuccessful (for most counties) format is built.

What's wrong with seeding the 4 Provincial Champions e.g in whatever system of an All Ireland Championship which follows?
Why does it have to be either the Provincials being an integral part of the All Ireland process as at present or else no connection whatsoever?

Because IMO, the provincial championships allow no latitude when it comes to developing a fairer format. Why should Limerick (for example) have to face down either Kerry or Cork, sometimes both, to win their province? If they were in Connacht or Leinster they may have won one in the past 6 or 7 years but because they've had to beat at least one of the best three or four teams in the country they've fallen short.

The provincial championships served a purpose but that purpose has long since past and they are now a stone around the GAA's neck promoted only by self-interest groups (the councils), people looking only at the small picture (some players) or lads glorifying them beyond all reality (some supporters).

[Rossfan]

Totally illogical allowing only first round losers a "back door".

[AZOffaly]

Totally illogical allowing only first round losers a "back door".

A lot of Club championships are like that. What's the issue with it?