Over 70% want championship open draw

[Zulu]

Actually, I'd nearly be tempted to do away with the qualifiers in their present form, and keep the 'back doors' at Provincial Level. Only allowing first round losers back into the hat. Everyone else is one defeat from being out.

Take Leinster for example, 11 teams. Open draw. 5 games with 1 bye. The 5 losers play each other in a 'back door' draw, including the team with the bye. The 5 winners await the teams that come out of those 3 games in the 1/4 finals. Straight knock out from there to September. 4 Provincial Winners, 2 semi finals and a final.

Munster, 6 teams. 3 matches. 3 teams into the semis. 3 losers play elimination games until 1 remains, and they go into the semis with the other 3.

Connacht, 7 teams. 3 matches - winners into semis. 3 losers plus 1 'bye' team in 2 semis + final to get 1 team extra for 4 provincial semi finals.

Ulster 9 teams. Hmm. Awkward. Can't be bothered to do the maths on that one, but I'm sure you could come up with something.

In fact, theoretically the Championships in each province could be completely different. The provincial councils run them. If the GAA said 'lads, we're having no more qualifiers at national level , it's up to you to give us a provincial champion by the 2nd week in August, and ye can decide how yourselves' then each province could work with the counties to decide on something like mine, or in Ulster, maybe a round robin type competition with two groups and an Ulster Final, whatever.

Too few serious games there in my opinion, I mean why not just play straight knock out?

[AZOffaly]

Why not indeed? I loved the straight knockout. It was harsh, but at least the clubs knew when they were out, they were out. Now being eliminated from the championship is like the death of a thousand cuts if you get a handy draw or something in the current qualifiers.

That said, I do recognise the severe punishment of a big day flop after a year of training, hence the guarantee of 2 games unless you are a 'bye' team. (I'd imagine you could guarantee that you'd only be eligible for the by on a rota system).

That said, if the League was given more prominence, I'd have no problem with a straight knockout competition in the provinces and All Ireland.

[AZOffaly]

Also, by arriving at a situation where you'd have 4 provincial champions (in the old sense of the word) in the semis, you'd avoid the All Munster or All Ulster (or God help us the All Leinster or All Connacht) All Ireland finals. They were a novelty for a while, but I don't like it. Cork v Kerry should not be an All Ireland Final in my eyes, it doesn't feel right.

[ExiledGael]

Never ever ever should be allowed to happen.
There are few enough prizes in the GAA and it's not all about the big three of four or whatever the media say.
Just because Dublin, Cork, Armagh or Tyrone don't get the same thrill out of a provincial title doesn't mean it should be scrapped.
It's the same argument for the big soccer clubs in Europe talking about super league bull-shit. Probably would mean more revenue for them but it doesn't give one shit for the supporter or the long term good of the game. The time will come again when Armagh and some of thre rest will be very happy with a provincial title.
You could name 15 counties at least where a provincial title would mean the absolute world to them and something they would celebrate for the next 50 years, us (Fermanagh) at the top of the list.

So you think that we should retain an unequal system that produces many repeat games each year on the off chance that Fermanagh, Limerick, Leitrim or Carlow will win a provincial title?

The only positive I can see to a straight knock out is the novelty.
One thing would be for certain, attendances would be well down. Apart from one or two big draws we would have nothing much happenning until the quarter-finals. I know the shortcomings of the provincials but I don't see a viable alternative that hasn't been drawn on a soccer field.

[Zulu]

Teams put too much effort to only have one serious game a year, that system would also mean less exposure for the GAA both nationally and locally, which affects sponsorship and the ability to build a connection between teams and fans. The knockout system gave us some great games and great days but it also ensured that when counties like Louth, Offaly, Mayo and countless others had great teams if they were gone after one defeat. Whatever about the weaknesses of the current system the straight knockout is the worst possible one.

The only positive I can see to a straight knock out is the novelty.

I'm certainly not advocating that.

I know the shortcomings of the provincials but I don't see a viable alternative that hasn't been drawn on a soccer field.

There are quite a few, all of them better than the provincial championships. Connecting the league and championship is the best one IMO but there are others.

[INDIANA]

in fairness zulu the qualifiers have done nothing for louth and offaly.  Granted though they have been a god send for the likes of wicklow and meath at times recently
At least under the old system if kerry were beaten they were out. Its just too easy for the strong teams in particular to get the ship back on the road.
I think the system needs to be tweaked a bit- I'd prefer to see a greater penalty for losing in the championship- or else give provincial winners another bite.

[Bogball XV]

in fairness zulu the qualifiers have done nothing for louth and offaly.  Granted though they have been a god send for the likes of wicklow and meath at times recently
At least under the old system if kerry were beaten they were out. Its just too easy for the strong teams in particular to get the ship back on the road.
I think the system needs to be tweaked a bit- I'd prefer to see a greater penalty for losing in the championship- or else give provincial winners another bite.

louth had a decent run a couple of years ago (a decent run for them that is), in general however the teams who put no effort into the qualifiers get hurt, look at the turnaround in Kildare since McGeeney made them take the qualifiers seriously.  There are a handful of teams country wide who've done well from the qualifiers and another handful who seem to be annoyed at having to turn up for an extra game after they've already been beat.

[Zulu]

in fairness zulu the qualifiers have done nothing for louth and offaly.  Granted though they have been a god send for the likes of wicklow and meath at times recently
At least under the old system if kerry were beaten they were out. Its just too easy for the strong teams in particular to get the ship back on the road.I think the system needs to be tweaked a bit- I'd prefer to see a greater penalty for losing in the championship- or else give provincial winners another bite.

I have no problem at all with the better teams making use of the second chance. Every competition should be designed to allow the best team win it and since the new format came into existence the best team in the country has generally won the AI. This is how it should be IMO. The only discussion should be how to make the path to the final equal for all teams and how to give every team as many real competitive games as possible? Neither a knockout championship or the provincial format tick either of those boxes.

[muppet]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/

Currently 71% on RTÉ's poll are in favour after 6128 votes, seems a pretty emphatic margin though of course it doesn't prove that percentage of the population / of supporters want it. What would the views be like here?

98% of the population would vote for the scrapping of all tax but it doesn't make it a good idea.

The 1984 Centenary Cup was open draw and it hardly set the world alight.

There have been may discussions on the way to go here and elsewhere but a simple open draw is not the way.

[cornafean]

RTE's online polls are idiotic. It is daft to pay any heed to them.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Saw this idea on here before and it works for me...

Change the qualifier system completely. Instead of having counties enter into it after they have been knocked out of their provincial championship have an open draw of the 32 counties, first team out gets home advantage. The 16 winners progress to round 2 where there is another open draw and the 8 winners of this progress to round 3. The four winners of round 3 will be entered into the AI Championship at the quarter final stage.

The provincial championships are run off as normal by the provincial councils. Each of the provincial winners are drawn against one of the teams who have emerged from the qualifiers. If a team has emerged from the qualifiers and has also won their province then they automatically progress to the AI semi final.

This system gives teams at least 2 games a year, gives the weaker teams an achievable goal in the provincial title and those with higher ambitions can meander through the provincials/qualifiers with the stated aim of just getting through to an AI quarter final, which they can then kick on from. And it would suit the Dubs as they can get back to AI semis by emerging from both the provincials and the qualifiers... 

[Zulu]

Again another format that's desperately trying to keep the provincial championships, and by doing so weakens itself. Basically that format has two seperate competitions (5 really) where you can make the AI OF's yet depending on who wins what we might have 1, 2, 3 or 4 QF's, or none at all for that matter. If weaker counties want to keep the provincials so they can, maybe, win some silverware then just play the damn things as a stand alone competition and away you go. But why do some people feel they still need to be connected to the AI championship when they are so obviously the main problem in creating a streamlined, balanced and fair AI competition?

[INDIANA]

Again another format that's desperately trying to keep the provincial championships, and by doing so weakens itself. Basically that format has two seperate competitions (5 really) where you can make the AI OF's yet depending on who wins what we might have 1, 2, 3 or 4 QF's, or none at all for that matter. If weaker counties want to keep the provincials so they can, maybe, win some silverware then just play the damn things as a stand alone competition and away you go. But why do some people feel they still need to be connected to the AI championship when they are so obviously the main problem in creating a streamlined, balanced and fair AI competition?

In fairness Zulu- the likes of wicklow, fermanagh,longford, carlow, letrim, limerick etc ( i could add another 10 here) have zero chance of all-ireland honours at senior level. Provincial titles are all they have to go for. Any system at football where all counties play at the same level (unlike hurling) has to retain the provincial system otherwise we'll have to take 20 counties out of the all-ireland championship altogether and have A and B championships which in my view won't work at football.
It works at hurling because the technical level of profiecny required by players. Its far easier at football for an average team to beat a good team and so it gives weaker counties soem hope of provincial success.

[full back]

Any change to the system will come down to 1 thing.................cash. Nothing else

An open draw (although a good idea) wouldnt create enough high profile clashes/local rivalry to get the money in so it will be a non-starter

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I would like to see the FBD, O'Byrne Cup etc. got rid of, to be replaced with the Provinicial Championships, the League would also remain. To make both competitive both competions would be used to seed teams, along with the Previous years League & Championship Finalists. An openish draw based on the seedings, not 100% perfect as Cork, Kerry, Mayo & Galway would have a slightly greater chance of seeding, but it would make teams like Roscommon, Limerick, Fermanagh, Wexford etc. hope to catch a so called big team on the hop in the Championship to get seeded. A team like say Derry might go for the league on the basis that say the previous year the League Finalists where Donegal & Cork and the All-Ireland Finalists might have been Kerry & Tyrone, they might reckon that the league was an avenue for them to get seeded. I can see a major downfall in the system if for the sake of argument if a seeded team went into the Provincials not bothering too hard on the basis of being seeded from last years finals or this years league.