Wounded

[whiskeysteve]

However, I have no sympathy for those soldiers who have been killed in Iraq/Afghanistan where the British have contributed to, and been complicit in a bloody disaster. They werent conscripted and made their choice.

No, they didnt make a choice. Anyone who joins an army takes orders, they go and serve.Yes, they had a choice to join the army or not.

so your correcting me by saying they didnt have a choice after they made their choice. whats your point?

[Olaf]

Yes but What the f**k are they doing there in the first place...the same reason they were in N Ireland, Faukland Islands etc etc Stay the F**K out of other peoples countries and mind your own dorty business

Just sometimes you have to look outside your front door . There is a whole world out there you know, some of which has  problems on a massive scale. 

Incidentally and as a point of order it is accepted that  Northern Ireland and the Falklands are not in  "other people's countries" pursuant to the will of the majority of folk in each jurisdiction.

[dillinger]

No, they didnt make a choice. Anyone who joins an army takes orders, they go and serve.Yes, they had a choice to join the army or not.
[/quote]

so your correcting me by saying they didnt have a choice after they made their choice. whats your point?
[/quote]
You know what im saying, they had a choice to join the army, but no choice to where they are posted too.

[Capt Pat]

Yes but What the f**k are they doing there in the first place...the same reason they were in N Ireland, Faukland Islands etc etc Stay the F**K out of other peoples countries and mind your own dorty business

Just sometimes you have to look outside your front door . There is a whole world out there you know, some of which has  problems on a massive scale. 

Incidentally and as a point of order it is accepted that  Northern Ireland and the Falklands are not in  "other people's countries" pursuant to the will of the majority of folk in each jurisdiction.

I suppose the best and only way to answer that question is to say look at the map and then come back and say that they are not in other peoples countries. You could add Gibraltar to that list as well. 80% of Gibraltar is Spanish and catholic yet they are all brain washed into staying part of Britain much like the people up the North and in the Falklands.

[Olaf]

Yes but What the f**k are they doing there in the first place...the same reason they were in N Ireland, Faukland Islands etc etc Stay the F**K out of other peoples countries and mind your own dorty business

Just sometimes you have to look outside your front door . There is a whole world out there you know, some of which has  problems on a massive scale. 

Incidentally and as a point of order it is accepted that  Northern Ireland and the Falklands are not in  "other people's countries" pursuant to the will of the majority of folk in each jurisdiction.

I suppose the best and only way to answer that question is to say look at the map and then come back and say that they are not in other peoples countries. You could add Gibraltar to that list as well. 80% of Gibraltar is Spanish and catholic yet they are all brain washed into staying part of Britain much like the people up the North and in the Falklands.

I've looked at a map and yes indeed can confirm  they are not in "other people's countries."

Brain washing - that's a new one. How precisely have the people in the three areas referred to by you  who wish to maintain a union with Great Britain been brain-washed? You also throw in a reference to Gibraltar apparently  being 80% Catholic . For what reason? Do you actually believe that it is not possible to be Catholic  and be British at the same time? (unless you've been brain-washed of course.)

[Capt Pat]

Your response is horribly simplistic. In relation to Spain you have people living over the border in Spain a few miles away and in a lot of cases they never meet or interact. Given that the population in Giraltar  is ethnically 80 % /20 % Spanish/British all mixed up this is an extraordinary upside down backward situation, there is a very unnatural feeling of enmity between the communities on either side of the border. The Gibraltarians have in the past come to beleive that the Spanish would kill them all if the British left and this idea is still there today even though the political climate around Gibraltar has changed. This suits the British who will do nothing to change that so they can keep a naval foothold in this strategically important port. It is the role of every Gibraltarian to be against Spain that is they way they are brought up, call it brain washing or what ever you want but the bottom line is it stinks. 98 % vote against joining Spain when they have  a referendum and that won't change any time soon, I don't think their wishes should be respected. Even though I think the wishes of a marginal majority in the north should be respected. The Brits have created a horrible basket case of a mini nation and should be trying to nomalise the place and prepare to hand it back to Spain.

The Falklands is a bit differen, it is an all British population effectively in the territory of Argentina. The Argentines have messed this situation up by invading in 1982. Now the Flaklanders will never agree to be a part of that country.

The north is on the island of Ireland which makes it part of Ireland and not Britain in my opinion.

[Roger]

The north is on the island of Ireland which makes it part of Ireland and not Britain in my opinion.

I find no fault with that at all.  Ireland is not a state but simply an island.

[armaghniac]

Ireland is not a state but simply an island.

As is Britain, perhaps this clarity would help discussions.

[Olaf]

The north is on the island of Ireland which makes it part of Ireland and not Britain in my opinion.
[/quote

...and how does that constitute the brain-washing of those who wish to maintain the Union with Great Britain?

I see you devoted two lines of your response to this part of the  world and yes  Northern Ireland is indeed part of  the island you refer to.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The north is on the island of Ireland which makes it part of Ireland and not Britain in my opinion.
[/quote

...and how does that constitute the brain-washing of those who wish to maintain the Union with Great Britain?

I see you devoted two lines of your response to this part of the  world and yes  Northern Ireland is indeed part of  the island you refer to.

I'll give lessons free for:

1. learning to decipher satellite photography, and specifically how to interpret the blue stuff surrounding an island

2. learning to use the quotes on this board

Want to take either up?

[Capt Pat]

The north is on the island of Ireland which makes it part of Ireland and not Britain in my opinion.
[/quote

...and how does that constitute the brain-washing of those who wish to maintain the Union with Great Britain?

I see you devoted two lines of your response to this part of the  world and yes  Northern Ireland is indeed part of  the island you refer to.

There is nothing tangible that makes up a campaign of brain washing, they simply are brain washed. Everyone is brain washed to some extent about something or other. Up north Unionists are brain washed to only consider themselves as part of Britain and never as part of a United Ireland. I could say look at the orange order, that could be construed as part of a life long campaign of brain wasing. Having an exclusive protestant only organisation to promote unionism. To promote being part of a country which is mostly contained on a different island while shunning the country of the island on which you are on. Surely it takes brain washing to think like that. It is not the natural way of things.

[Aerlik]

Just sometimes you have to look outside your front door . There is a whole world out there you know, some of which has  problems on a massive scale. 

Does the name "curveball" mean anything?

[Olaf]

The north is on the island of Ireland which makes it part of Ireland and not Britain in my opinion.
[/quote

...and how does that constitute the brain-washing of those who wish to maintain the Union with Great Britain?

I see you devoted two lines of your response to this part of the  world and yes  Northern Ireland is indeed part of  the island you refer to.

There is nothing tangible that makes up a campaign of brain washing, they simply are brain washed. Everyone is brain washed to some extent about something or other. Up north Unionists are brain washed to only consider themselves as part of Britain and never as part of a United Ireland. I could say look at the orange order, that could be construed as part of a life long campaign of brain wasing. Having an exclusive protestant only organisation to promote unionism. To promote being part of a country which is mostly contained on a different island while shunning the country of the island on which you are on. Surely it takes brain washing to think like that. It is not the natural way of things.

The Orange Order is an  organistaion that exists to promote Protestantism , not the Union.  Not having ever been a member (as like many  other Unionists ) I am not aware of any of their procedures.

Your reference to brain-washing and "natural way  of things" frankly might say more about you than the people to whom it is directed. ie - it supports the notion sometimes bandied about  that all Unionists either  within the Orange Order or without are simply mis-guided Irish-men and women who will soon come to their senses.

Mind you it's probably the easiest (and laziest) way to try to convince Unionists of the error of their ways - just tell them they've been brain-washed

[Olaf]

Just sometimes you have to look outside your front door . There is a whole world out there you know, some of which has  problems on a massive scale. 

Does the name "curveball" mean anything?

Yes.

[fitzroyalty]

Regardless as to your feelings on US/British aggression and tjhe fact 1000's of innocent probably die or are injured for every soldier casulty, it remains this young lad is a victim as well.  I felt very soory for him and his family and admired his courage. 

I couldn't have faced it anywhere near as well as he did.  The months of blindness not knowing if he'd ever see again must have been particualrly tough.

What passing bells for those who die as cattle...?

Only thing they are a victim of is their own ignorance. victims in iraq and afghanistan did not have the same choices those wee lads did. victims in iraq/afghanistan were killed and maimed in their own countries, so you can't really equate the two. they don't have the same level of health care/rehab to avail of, nor will they have any sympathy from the the british public as sky, bbc et al will refuse to even report on the amount of deaths/injuries their forces have caused. While I sympathise with these lads in that their lives are now ruined, for the most part they have only themselves to blame for joining in the first place. while they are playing badminton with other amputees in rehab their middle-east equivelants are probably lying begging in some street in Kabul.

I think you'll find that the majority of people dying in Iraq are civilians killed by bombs built and detonated by other Iraqis. I think you'll find too that many thousands of Iraqis died under the brutal regime of Saddam. If the British and the Americans pulled out in the morning, many Iraqi civilians would die in the struggle for power between the various religious and ethnic factions in the country. FFS grow up and stop laying the blame for everything that happens at the feet of the Brits and the Yanks.

Did you read that in the Sun??