Why do Kerry minors not win more AI's?

omagh_gael · September 17, 2009, 03:49:57 PM

Firstly, I'm not green eyed tyrone man on a winding mission here. Although I wouldnt mind if it was a repeat of last years AI final line up!

So to the topic...Kerry seniors have won four (possibly 5) AI's this decade yet have had (relatively) minimal sucess in under-age football. I realize that winning minor/u-21 titles isn't a sure fire way of ensuring senior sucess but surely with the talent at their disposal they would have more trophies at these levels?

What do you's think? Poor managers in recent time? Not enough focus on under age structures? This has always been a conundrum in my eyes

botman · September 17, 2009, 04:13:25 PM

It's a secret! Kerry men tell nobody nothing, not even their mothers.

mountainboii · September 17, 2009, 04:18:17 PM

According to some of the Kerry posters on their supporters board, part of the problem is that they maybe try to give too many players a chance at minor level.

This is the second year on the team for 7 or 8 or the current Armagh minor team, and this has undoubtedly been of great benefit to them. A lot of successful minor teams would show a similar pattern, where teams are built over a couple of years rather than thrown together for just the one. The Kerry posters seem to suggest that this doesn't happen with them and that they go for broke each year. I don't know enough to say whether that argument is bullshit or not.

Another thing that was mentioned was their development squads, which apparently have only been put in place relatively recently. Next year will see the first minor team produced from their development squad system.

http://kerrygaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2225

INDIANA · September 17, 2009, 05:55:23 PM

Quote from: AFS on September 17, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
According to some of the Kerry posters on their supporters board, part of the problem is that they maybe try to give too many players a chance at minor level.

This is the second year on the team for 7 or 8 or the current Armagh minor team, and this has undoubtedly been of great benefit to them. A lot of successful minor teams would show a similar pattern, where teams are built over a couple of years rather than thrown together for just the one. The Kerry posters seem to suggest that this doesn't happen with them and that they go for broke each year. I don't know enough to say whether that argument is bullshit or not.

Another thing that was mentioned was their development squads, which apparently have only been put in place relatively recently. Next year will see the first minor team produced from their development squad system.

http://kerrygaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2225

God help us then so . The abscence of development teams hasn't hurt them at all. despite the investment within underage structures of every other county -no-one can match kerry's success rate at senior level.

ross4life · September 17, 2009, 10:53:34 PM

John kennedy maybe is the reason? he finally stepped down in august

tyrone86 · September 17, 2009, 11:22:39 PM

Quote from: Take Your Points on September 17, 2009, 11:17:28 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 17, 2009, 03:49:57 PM
Firstly, I'm not green eyed tyrone man on a winding mission here. Although I wouldnt mind if it was a repeat of last years AI final line up!

So to the topic...Kerry seniors have won four (possibly 5) AI's this decade yet have had (relatively) minimal sucess in under-age football. I realize that winning minor/u-21 titles isn't a sure fire way of ensuring senior sucess but surely with the talent at their disposal they would have more trophies at these levels?

What do you's think? Poor managers in recent time? Not enough focus on under age structures? This has always been a conundrum in my eyes

Why have Tyrone failed to make any progress at U-21 level since Mickey Harte moved to senior level despite having a supply of excellent underage players from clubs and colleges?

Ouch

longrunsthefox · September 17, 2009, 11:25:06 PM

They got to the All Ireland final in 2003 without Mickey Harte but I suppose you have a point... a lot of people hammer the management of Liam Donnelly and Martin Coyle but I don't think it is as simple as that. U21s have gone out to single point at times to Ulster winners ... a lot of minor All Ireland winners aren't fulfiling potential to next county level. The 1998 minor team of was exeptionaly high amount went on to be top senior players through Hartes U21s.

tyrone86 · September 17, 2009, 11:38:41 PM

Quote from: longrunsthefox on September 17, 2009, 11:25:06 PM
They got to the All Ireland final in 2003 without Mickey Harte but I suppose you have a point... a lot of people hammer the management of Liam Donnelly and Martin Coyle but I don't think it is as simple as that. U21s have gone out to single point at times to Ulster winners ... a lot of minor All Ireland winners aren't fulfiling potential to next county level. The 1998 minor team of was exeptionaly high amount went on to be top senior players through Hartes U21s.

Indeed, Donnelly and Coyle won 2 minors without Mickey Harte - 01&04 but have stagnated since moving up to U21. However, Harte didn't exactly set the world alight in his early years as Minor manager so you never know they may come good yet and I think they will next year - 1 year ahead of schedule.

As for Kerry, when you have a very strong panel of players, the way they do currently, underage success isn't that important. It's up to the good lads to work hard and force their way into the setup and supplement what's there. When you have lads like Killian Young, Tommy and Barry John Walsh and David Moran coming through at a rate of 1 or 2 a year adding to what they have, underage success isn't a prerequisite. A team like Tyrone in the early part of the decade or Cork over the past couple of years needed it because the quality largely wasn't there previously - with Kerry it has been

Fear ón Srath Bán · September 17, 2009, 11:46:31 PM

I think Kerry also seem to regionalise/localise their Minor teams within the county (and perhaps the U21s too). This year, for example, all but a couple of the Minor lads were south Kerry.

Zapatista · September 18, 2009, 08:00:50 AM

It's hard to tell if the comparative lack of success is a good thing or a bad thing. Next year being the first year of the development squad could have a different affect in the future. Clearly whatever they have been doing before now has had no negative impact (may have had a positive impact) on the senior teams. Perhaps they are fixing something that might be better left alone?

rrhf · September 18, 2009, 08:37:20 AM

Dont rate that under 21 management.

5 Sams · September 18, 2009, 12:21:24 PM

Its amazing how a thread about Kerry minors turns into a gurning match about the Tyrone U21 management team...... $:-\$

Maiden1 · September 18, 2009, 12:23:26 PM

I read somewhere that in Kerry at under age level they concentrate more on the development of skills, kicking of both feet etc. where as other teams would concentrate on physical size and plenty of laps etc. Take the Gooch for example if he was from Dublin he might not have got on the minor team as he would be seen as too small.