Hunger strike commemoration at a GAA ground

[Aghdavoyle]

I've been at as many and more marches as anyone on here i'd wager but this is not a pissing contest.
If we want to argue that this doesn't politicise a club with a straight face then we need to have a serious look in the mirror.
Those who gave their lives in the troubles need to be remembered by those who feel they should - that certainly includes me - but that doesn't include everyone within our community. far from it.
The gaa should be an all encompassing sporting organization with sporting ideals and sporting objectives. politics should be left at the door. This type of thing intimidates club members who do not agree - as this thread shows - but the sad thing about our society is this discussion cannot happen in a football club or at a parish meeting.
It's only happening here because anonymity leaves those with an alternative view safe from intimidation - though obviously there are those who are trying anyway.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I'm not rejoicing at anything, just relieved that you, Lord Lickspittle of Limp-Wristed Lane, finally seem to have grasped something, without your political masters having given you permission. There were mistakes in that war, of course there were; tell about one war where there weren't mistakes. That you have to mention Darkley shows just how devoid and desperate of reason you actually are. Do you actually know who was involved in that shameful incident?

That you equate the UDA and UVF with the IRA shows just how jaundiced you are -- when did the IRA ever perpetrate a Greysteel or Seán Grahams?
You've pathetically attempted to change the subject from your assertion about Catholic victims of the IRA, but since that backfired on you, you now attempt to change the subject. Pathetic.

You've forgotten Kingsmill, obviously. A republican with a selective memory -quelle surprise. Your attempt to justify or explain away the killings of the IRA and other republican groupings is nauseating.

No, I didn't forget Kingsmill, but I knew you did. I also knew you would bring it up (eventually), but I also know that it's another example of how confused about it all that you are.

Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation, however, I don't deny that there may have been individual IRA personnel involved, which is not the same thing (except perhaps in your mind).

In the context of the time, where loyalists were mounting daily murderous attacks on Catholics in that specific area of Armagh, it was a 'successful' act in that those loyalist attacks ceased (largely), however, I would never condone the taking of, or attack on, a life based on religion, and can only be abhorred.

[Aghdavoyle]

I'm not rejoicing at anything, just relieved that you, Lord Lickspittle of Limp-Wristed Lane, finally seem to have grasped something, without your political masters having given you permission. There were mistakes in that war, of course there were; tell about one war where there weren't mistakes. That you have to mention Darkley shows just how devoid and desperate of reason you actually are. Do you actually know who was involved in that shameful incident?

That you equate the UDA and UVF with the IRA shows just how jaundiced you are -- when did the IRA ever perpetrate a Greysteel or Seán Grahams?
You've pathetically attempted to change the subject from your assertion about Catholic victims of the IRA, but since that backfired on you, you now attempt to change the subject. Pathetic.

You've forgotten Kingsmill, obviously. A republican with a selective memory -quelle surprise. Your attempt to justify or explain away the killings of the IRA and other republican groupings is nauseating.

No, I didn't forget Kingsmill, but I knew you did. I also knew you would bring it up (eventually), but I also know that it's another example of how confused about it all that you are.

Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation, however, I don't deny that there may have been individual IRA personnel involved, which is not the same thing (except perhaps in your mind).

In the context of the time, where loyalists were mounting daily murderous attacks on Catholics in that specific area of Armagh, it was a 'successful' act in that those loyalist attacks ceased (largely), however, I would never condone the taking of, or attack on, a life based on religion, and can only be abhorred.

Lads, can you take this stuff to the non gaa section please.

[Maguire01]

On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation

However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.

Precisely.

[Maguire01]

I'm not rejoicing at anything, just relieved that you, Lord Lickspittle of Limp-Wristed Lane, finally seem to have grasped something, without your political masters having given you permission. There were mistakes in that war, of course there were; tell about one war where there weren't mistakes. That you have to mention Darkley shows just how devoid and desperate of reason you actually are. Do you actually know who was involved in that shameful incident?

That you equate the UDA and UVF with the IRA shows just how jaundiced you are -- when did the IRA ever perpetrate a Greysteel or Seán Grahams?
You've pathetically attempted to change the subject from your assertion about Catholic victims of the IRA, but since that backfired on you, you now attempt to change the subject. Pathetic.

You've forgotten Kingsmill, obviously. A republican with a selective memory -quelle surprise. Your attempt to justify or explain away the killings of the IRA and other republican groupings is nauseating.

No, I didn't forget Kingsmill, but I knew you did. I also knew you would bring it up (eventually), but I also know that it's another example of how confused about it all that you are.

Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation, however, I don't deny that there may have been individual IRA personnel involved, which is not the same thing (except perhaps in your mind).

In the context of the time, where loyalists were mounting daily murderous attacks on Catholics in that specific area of Armagh, it was a 'successful' act in that those loyalist attacks ceased (largely), however, I would never condone the taking of, or attack on, a life based on religion, and can only be abhorred.

Lads, can you take this stuff to the non gaa section please.

Yep, that line of discussion is dragging this out of the area of GAA discussion and isn't really that relevant to this topic anyway. Unless that's FoSB's plan, to try and have the mods move the thread. 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

My opinion is of less value than yours because of where I live? What's the point of discussion if you automatically win any argument because of your location? Are you not embarrassed to get into the ring with that kind of horseshoe in your glove?

And I note that I'm "pontificating". You, of course, are the soul of reason.

OK Hardy, by your usual posting standards, I though your initial posting in this thread was lazy ("Jean Mc Conville and hundreds..."), unreasonable, and provocative.

And don't be making any assumptions about how concerned I was or about what I did. I could just as easily ask what did YOU do, but I won't.

I asked a simple (but hard) question. Now that you've got the bluster and obfuscation out of the way, the question stands.

In relation to the question, an imperative of war is that informers within must be removed. I don't want to discuss the specifics of this particular case (or any case) on a public discussion forum, there may be relatives who may, through accident or design, happen across it.

On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation

OK, fair enough.

However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.

OK, but the facts of the matter have not yet been established, so there's no firm premise for the discussion, except what might have been the case. So, it descends very quickly into the usual political mud slinging, where the subject of the thread is quickly submerged. It ain't primarily GAA.

[stew]

The GAA should tell the shinners and marches and everyone and anyone connected with political ties to feck off and find some other premises to hold whatever sort of function they want to. The GAA up north gets bate over the head with this sort of thing and I think rightly so, why clubs feel the need to name clubs after men of violence is beyond me, they would be better served keeping their clubs seperate from political leanings and serve their communities free from political interests.

[barelegs]

On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation

However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.

Sinn Féin members are not trying to 'infiltrate' the GAA in the north, they have been part and parcel of it for years in many areas of the north. In areas like Tyrone and south Armagh many GAA clubs have members who are the members of both the GAA and Sinn Féín.

As for infiltrating and hi-jacking the GAA, both Fianna Fáíl and Fine Gael have been shameless in their attempts to attract former and current GAA player and managers to run for office. Think Graham Gearghty, John O'Mahony, John O'Leary, Jimmy Deenihan and more recently at the last local elections Brian Whelahan. I could go on. Sinn Féin's position as regards GAA is no different to other parties.

[sandwiches_in_the_boot]

On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation

However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.

Sinn Féin members are not trying to 'infiltrate' the GAA in the north, they have been part and parcel of it for years in many areas of the north. In areas like Tyrone and south Armagh many GAA clubs have members who are the members of both the GAA and Sinn Féín.

As for infiltrating and hi-jacking the GAA, both Fianna Fáíl and Fine Gael have been shameless in their attempts to attract former and current GAA player and managers to run for office. Think Graham Gearghty, John O'Mahony, John O'Leary, Jimmy Deenihan and more recently at the last local elections Brian Whelahan. I could go on. Sinn Féin's position as regards GAA is no different to other parties.

Recruiting popular sporting figures into a political party is one thing, staging a party rally on a GAA field is quite another. This whole thing was orchestrated and run by SF. The Graves Association is just another arm of SF.

There's a big enough car park and community centre in Galbally, why was the rally held on the pitch?

Are Sinn Fein paying for the re-sod of Galbally's pitch a la U2? 

[ardmhachaabu]

On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation

However, I find the abuse Maguire got for raising it to be disgusting, but revealing. Of course it's a legitimate subject for discussion on a GAA board. As somebody mentioned, the abuse illustrates what would confront any club member who tried to argue against the wishes of the vociferous cabal who will tolerate no vision of the GAA other than their own. These people seem determined to undermine the GAA's position as a broadly-based community organization. They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.

Sinn Féin members are not trying to 'infiltrate' the GAA in the north, they have been part and parcel of it for years in many areas of the north. In areas like Tyrone and south Armagh many GAA clubs have members who are the members of both the GAA and Sinn Féín.

As for infiltrating and hi-jacking the GAA, both Fianna Fáíl and Fine Gael have been shameless in their attempts to attract former and current GAA player and managers to run for office. Think Graham Gearghty, John O'Mahony, John O'Leary, Jimmy Deenihan and more recently at the last local elections Brian Whelahan. I could go on. Sinn Féin's position as regards GAA is no different to other parties.

Did you keep your face straight as you typed that?

It's well known that SF have been trying to infiltrate the GAA in the north for years - anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or extremely naive.

[Donagh]

It's well known that SF have been trying to infiltrate the GAA in the north for years - anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or extremely naive.

Rubbish

[Donagh]

On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation

Inded it might seem like that Hardy but unless you are on the ground you really don't know any more than the next man. A word of warning though, don't mistake genuine community activism for what the Sindo might like to portray as a SF plot.

They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.

As above

[Hardy]

On the subject of the thread, I haven't an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the issue because it's not clear who organised what and whether or not rules were broken. On the surface, it looks like just another example of what is seen by many as an organised attempt at infiltration of the GAA in the North and hijacking of its place in the community by SF, that's causing some concern in GAA circles down here (and, I think, up there as well). But I'm happy to await the outcome of the GAA investigation

Inded it might seem like that Hardy but unless you are on the ground you really don't know any more than the next man. A word of warning though, don't mistake genuine community activism for what the Sindo might like to portray as a SF plot.

They take advantage of the commitment of all other members to leave their politics outside the door and take every opportunity to try to turn the GAA into some kind of propaganda machine for a particular political ideology.

As above

I don't read the Sindo, Donagh and I'm not claiming to know any more than the next man. As I said, SF's activities are seen by many who ARE on the ground as exactly as I've described.

[DuffleKing]

It's well known that SF have been trying to infiltrate the GAA in the north for years - anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or extremely naive.

Rubbish

Absolutely true.
Shinner with no interest in football suddenly turns up at an agm and puts his hand to sit on executive committtee.
a year spent turning up to the odd meeting and doing a bit of fundraising.
next year nominated for secretary or pro or something.
everyone delighted to get some new blood in.
2 or 3 years in shinner sitting in almost every office of the club and everyone thinking back "how did that happen?"
Wouldn't be so much of an issue except usually that none of them ever kicked a ball or even went to eatch a match til HQ phone down with the assignment...

[Donagh]

Pure tinfoil hat stuff DuffleKing and you haven't a shred of evidence to support it. Whats the motivation behind this SF plot? Are they gearing up for a run at the Sam Maguire or fix it so Cross win the club final every year? Maybe it's the first step on their plan for world domination? The GAA is a very democratic organiisation and reflective of the coummunity is which the clubs are based and as such the simple fact is that the vast majority of GAA members in the north are either SF members or voters. The same is also true for other organisations - I've already mentioned the PTAA filling Croke Park a few years ago. That organisation is also full of ex-IRA and SF members - what is going on there - a SF plot to fix the price of a pint?

Too many people losing the run of themselves on this thread.