Kerry V Dublin

[full back]

Although I thought the players genuinely fecked up on Monday, special mention must go to Pat Gilroy, who when his team were getting cleaned out at midfield & the defence getting roasted decided to take his corner forward off

Thought this moronic behaviour disappeared years ago

[INDIANA]

Listen with interest to the despair of the Dublin fans and maybe thats the start of the long road back.  For those who think Dublin need footballers they have again missed the point.  Dublin need to reinvent a system of play which means they dont lose big leads quickly against good teams and let big teams build up a head of steam against them.  Put it like this if Mc geeney had the Dublin gig they would have played a tighter more defensive game with fast well supported attacks.  No one can tell me theres less talent in Dublin than Kildare (underage success?) But when KIldare play for Mc Geeney they all look good, because they know what they are doing.  If you blame players in this instance players who have deservedly dominated their provincial championship for 5 years and have brought their county to having a punt at all Ireland success.   There are obvious weaknesses in the lay out of this Dublin team.  I see plenty of flair and by God it looks good when the goings good but who are the worker bees - this to me was why Shane Ryan was outsatanding over the last few years - he stood out with his work ethic.  Look at  Galvin, Dooher - absolute heartbeat of their teams.  This is wher it all needs to start, theres always room for the wonderful skills of the Brogans.  Cluxton is a rock, Bastick was an accident waiting to happen.  I think the management need to look at themselves and if they feel they can input.  I see Dubs questioning winning Leinster and its usefulness and blaming the extra week before the Tyrone game last year.  There was no delay this year for Kerry and the same thing happened.  Nobody learned and I have no doubt that the management had scoured the county looking for talent, maybe they simply didnty notice the worker bees and just went for higher profile men.  Next year Davoren will be back, Ryan needs to be talked to, Id talk to whelan next year as well, beacuse he dosent deserve to go out like that - hes not a starter but he can contribute.  After Davoren was injured could Whelan have contributed at f/f with the Brogans around him.     If Mc Geeney had mangaed Dublin or Mickey Harte or possibly Jack O Connor then they may well have taken Kerry on Monday - they certainly would have made an aifinal over the past 5 years.  Armagh 02, Mayo 06, Tyrone 05 were all there for the taking at stages The championship is never as interesting after the Dubs leave.  I also belive that they fell foul of a massive Kerry PR operation involving punditry management and players but thats not my story to tell.      

Absolutely spot on in my view. Couldn't have written it better myself. But to be fair to the management its an inherent weakness in Dublin football. Our players can't tackle to save their lives and also are incapable of playing in different positions. But thats a mental thing at times.

[Main Street]

Good write up rrhf.

Would it not be the time to let Whelan go,
though I don't know who else could fit into his gloves..

Possibly Gilroy was stuck between 2 minds on how to use Whelan in this championship.
Whereas Kerry and Tyrone took a definite decision as regards the role and usage of O'Shea and Dooher in the games so far.

[INDIANA]

Good write up rrhf.

Would it not be the time to let Whelan go,
though I don't know who else could fit into his gloves..

Possibly Gilroy was stuck between 2 minds on how to use Whelan in this championship.
Whereas Kerry and Tyrone took a definite decision as regards the role and usage of O'Shea and Dooher in the games so far.

Thats hardly Whelan's fault dublin didn't use him properly. As Colm O Rourke said on Sunday- what is the poiint in having someone on the bench who is better than what is on the pitch. I'll say no more. Especially to mark someone who was the same age as him. We have no-one to replace him. He is still good enough to be used for 55 mins next year. But as Colm Keys says today- the right 55mins. But I doubt he'll be back- for what? Another leinster?

[020304 Tir Eoghain]

Good write up rrhf.

Would it not be the time to let Whelan go,
though I don't know who else could fit into his gloves..

Possibly Gilroy was stuck between 2 minds on how to use Whelan in this championship.
Whereas Kerry and Tyrone took a definite decision as regards the role and usage of O'Shea and Dooher in the games so far.

Thats hardly Whelan's fault dublin didn't use him properly. As Colm O Rourke said on Sunday- what is the poiint in having someone on the bench who is better than what is on the pitch. I'll say no more. Especially to mark someone who was the same age as him. We have no-one to replace him. He is still good enough to be used for 55 mins next year. But as Colm Keys says today- the right 55mins. But I doubt he'll be back- for what? Another leinster?

Well it would be a start Indiana. Hopefully the Dublin players dont give up as easily as their fans. A full back, Centre back, a Midfielder and a couple of forwards
& a lot of hard work from the whole panel would go a long towards getting ye back on track over the next couple of years. I really dont think that Dublin
are as bad a team as they looked on Monday. They have most of the players needed to challenge, all they need is someone to instill a bit of confidence and
and get them to put the hard work in.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Interesting piece in today's Irish Times:

Kingdom targeted weak spots - O'Keeffe

GAELIC GAMES CHAMPIONSHIP 2009 NEWS: KERRY HAD identified several weaknesses in the Dublin team ahead of Monday's All-Ireland football quarter-final – almost all of which proved to be entirely accurate. Inexperienced players, playing out of position; a defence that hadn't been truly tested; and an inability to deal with sustained pressure, particularly in front of their Croke Park crowd, writes IAN O'RIORDAN

But, according to Kerry selector Ger O'Keeffe, that doesn't mean Dublin need a football revolution in order to be competitive at this level. Their problem may actually be more psychological than physical, particularly as their wait for All-Ireland glory goes on even longer.

"We did feel they were playing a few players out of their natural position," says O'Keeffe, "or at least players who might be athletic enough, but wouldn't be used to playing in that position all of their lives. Whether that's an outfield player moved into the defence, or vice versa. I think we found that out in quite a number of situations.

"So we were able to capitalise on that inexperience. Some days that works for you, and some days it doesn't. In many ways we also got the dream performance ourselves because so many of our players had a good game. I mean the way our forwards played on the day you'd have to wonder if any team could have dealt with them.

"As well as that, we felt a few Dublin players might be tired, such as Darren Magee. He's had a very long season going back to the club run, and wasn't the force at midfield that he should have been. But I still think they have the players. Everyone was talking about Bernard Brogan being one of the best footballers in the country before Monday."

O'Keeffe was captain of the last Kerry team to lose to Dublin in the championship, in the 1977 All-Ireland semi-final, and says that's one record he's glad is "still intact". However, he doesn't expect it to stay intact indefinitely.

"It's the old saying that a team doesn't become bad overnight, and I think that's relevant to Dublin. But you would have to wonder if Leinster football is as strong as it used to be, say, 10 years ago. Back then you had five or six teams capable of winning, but now it seems you only have Dublin. Kildare are getting stronger again, but I think Dublin more or less had it all to themselves again this year, and that can't have been a help.

"The bottom line is that they're not getting as tested as much as they should be any more.

"The other problem Dublin have is there is so much expected of them. And, of course, the longer they go on without winning, the worse it will get. Every team that goes out to play Dublin wants to beat them, and because of that, they usually end up raising their game in an effort to beat them. I suppose that was the case with us again on Monday.

"I actually think it may be a matter now of Dublin playing in Croke Park actually being detrimental to them. I believe if Dublin came down to Killarney to play Kerry they would actually perform a lot better. We actually had a very good record in Croke Park, but for Dublin, going out there expected to win, in front of their own crowd, has almost become a noose around their neck."

But as Kerry look forward to an All-Ireland semi-final against either Mayo or Meath, O'Keeffe says Dublin can still look forward to some positive football days, if they can somehow turn the negative experience into a positive one.

"I wouldn't say it's all doom and gloom for Dublin. I mean just a week ago everyone was saying that Kerry were finished. Things can be turned around. They'll just have to stick at it, and give it time.

"We knew we had to get to them early on, put them under real pressure, and to knock them off their perch. We knew if we did that we'd ask real questions of them, and that's exactly what happened. We felt there was a bit of inexperience in that team, and that if we could put them under pressure early on, in front of their home crowd, they might have a hard time dealing with it. If you look at Dublin in the Leinster championship, they really imposed themselves on the opposition early on, and we felt we had to do that to them.

"Having said that we were no way 17 points the better team. We definitely hit a real purple patch early on, went 1-2 in front, and in some ways that's really what won it for us. At the same time Diarmuid Murphy made one very important save, and another Dublin goal chance came off the crossbar. If those two goals had gone in I think it would have been a very different game."

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Time was (not so long ago) when Kerry would not have invested anything like so much time and effort in trying to identify and exploit the weaknesses of the opposition to such a degree as the management did for the Dublin game. Not so long ago the attitude would have been, "We're Kerry, and we don't care about the opposition. We just go out and play our own game". And that would have usually sufficed, at least it would have sufficed more often than not.

But Jack O'Connor has learned a lot in the last few years, and he's learned that that particular attitude won't cut it in today's game. The pupil has learned well from the master Mickey Harte 

[SidelineKick]

Time was (not so long ago) when Kerry would not have invested anything like so much time and effort in trying to identify and expoit the weaknesses of the opposition to such as degree as the management did for the Dublin game. Not so long ago the attitude would have been, "We're Kerry, and we don't care about the opposition. We just go out and play our own game". And that would have usually sufficed, at least it would have sufficed more often than not.

But Jack O'Connor has learned a lot in the last few years, and he's learned that that particular attitude won't cut it in today's game. The pupil has learned well from the master Mickey Harte  

Indeed, the first and only manager ever to win an All Ireland 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Indeed, the first and only manager ever to win an All Ireland 

Well, he was given a lesson, a very painful lesson, in 2005 

And I was referring to today's game, which I've now highlighted for your benefit. 

[orangeman]

Listen if you think you will see Tyrone players the equal of sean cavanagh and stevie o neill every year you're codding yourself. Enjoy it while it lasts mate- because it never does. We know that only too well. This is a golden generation of tyrone players not an every year occurence.

Spot on. No doubt about it. These are the glory years. All good things come to an end sonner or later.

[SidelineKick]

Indeed, the first and only manager ever to win an All Ireland 

Well, he was given a lesson, a very painful lesson, in 2005 

And I was referring to today's game, which I've now highlighted for your benefit. 

Gratefully acknowledged. Thank you 

[Donnellys Hollow]

Listen with interest to the despair of the Dublin fans and maybe thats the start of the long road back.  For those who think Dublin need footballers they have again missed the point.  Dublin need to reinvent a system of play which means they dont lose big leads quickly against good teams and let big teams build up a head of steam against them.  Put it like this if Mc geeney had the Dublin gig they would have played a tighter more defensive game with fast well supported attacks.  No one can tell me theres less talent in Dublin than Kildare (underage success?) But when KIldare play for Mc Geeney they all look good, because they know what they are doing.  If you blame players in this instance players who have deservedly dominated their provincial championship for 5 years and have brought their county to having a punt at all Ireland success.   There are obvious weaknesses in the lay out of this Dublin team.  I see plenty of flair and by God it looks good when the goings good but who are the worker bees - this to me was why Shane Ryan was outsatanding over the last few years - he stood out with his work ethic.  Look at  Galvin, Dooher - absolute heartbeat of their teams.  This is wher it all needs to start, theres always room for the wonderful skills of the Brogans.  Cluxton is a rock, Bastick was an accident waiting to happen.  I think the management need to look at themselves and if they feel they can input.  I see Dubs questioning winning Leinster and its usefulness and blaming the extra week before the Tyrone game last year.  There was no delay this year for Kerry and the same thing happened.  Nobody learned and I have no doubt that the management had scoured the county looking for talent, maybe they simply didnty notice the worker bees and just went for higher profile men.  Next year Davoren will be back, Ryan needs to be talked to, Id talk to whelan next year as well, beacuse he dosent deserve to go out like that - hes not a starter but he can contribute.  After Davoren was injured could Whelan have contributed at f/f with the Brogans around him.     If Mc Geeney had mangaed Dublin or Mickey Harte or possibly Jack O Connor then they may well have taken Kerry on Monday - they certainly would have made an aifinal over the past 5 years.  Armagh 02, Mayo 06, Tyrone 05 were all there for the taking at stages The championship is never as interesting after the Dubs leave.  I also belive that they fell foul of a massive Kerry PR operation involving punditry management and players but thats not my story to tell.      

I'd agree with most of this post apart from the highlighted bit. Kildare have been more than a match for Dublin at u21 level throughout this decade.

[INDIANA]

Listen with interest to the despair of the Dublin fans and maybe thats the start of the long road back.  For those who think Dublin need footballers they have again missed the point.  Dublin need to reinvent a system of play which means they dont lose big leads quickly against good teams and let big teams build up a head of steam against them.  Put it like this if Mc geeney had the Dublin gig they would have played a tighter more defensive game with fast well supported attacks.  No one can tell me theres less talent in Dublin than Kildare (underage success?) But when KIldare play for Mc Geeney they all look good, because they know what they are doing.  If you blame players in this instance players who have deservedly dominated their provincial championship for 5 years and have brought their county to having a punt at all Ireland success.   There are obvious weaknesses in the lay out of this Dublin team.  I see plenty of flair and by God it looks good when the goings good but who are the worker bees - this to me was why Shane Ryan was outsatanding over the last few years - he stood out with his work ethic.  Look at  Galvin, Dooher - absolute heartbeat of their teams.  This is wher it all needs to start, theres always room for the wonderful skills of the Brogans.  Cluxton is a rock, Bastick was an accident waiting to happen.  I think the management need to look at themselves and if they feel they can input.  I see Dubs questioning winning Leinster and its usefulness and blaming the extra week before the Tyrone game last year.  There was no delay this year for Kerry and the same thing happened.  Nobody learned and I have no doubt that the management had scoured the county looking for talent, maybe they simply didnty notice the worker bees and just went for higher profile men.  Next year Davoren will be back, Ryan needs to be talked to, Id talk to whelan next year as well, beacuse he dosent deserve to go out like that - hes not a starter but he can contribute.  After Davoren was injured could Whelan have contributed at f/f with the Brogans around him.     If Mc Geeney had mangaed Dublin or Mickey Harte or possibly Jack O Connor then they may well have taken Kerry on Monday - they certainly would have made an aifinal over the past 5 years.  Armagh 02, Mayo 06, Tyrone 05 were all there for the taking at stages The championship is never as interesting after the Dubs leave.  I also belive that they fell foul of a massive Kerry PR operation involving punditry management and players but thats not my story to tell.      

I'd agree with most of this post apart from the highlighted bit. Kildare have been more than a match for Dublin at u21 level throughout this decade.

Incorrect. they've been better than Dublin for nearly all this decade. Much better.

[Main Street]

Thats hardly Whelan's fault dublin didn't use him properly. As Colm O Rourke said on Sunday- what is the poiint in having someone on the bench who is better than what is on the pitch. I'll say no more. Especially to mark someone who was the same age as him. We have no-one to replace him. He is still good enough to be used for 55 mins next year. But as Colm Keys says today- the right 55mins. But I doubt he'll be back- for what? Another leinster?

I wouldn't  even imply that it was any fault of Whelan. That's why I referred to the managers use. I trust he applied himself 100% to the training and preparation and was in serious doubt whether to go through it all again for next year.

As it stands now, another Leinster for Dublin in 2010,  overcoming Kildare etc would be some achievement, but would not be enough for Whelan personally.

[Celt_Man]

I'm sure this was mentioned before but was Bastick seen on tv camera "being entangled" with donaghy?? Was it on The Sunday Game?