Kerry V Dublin

[INDIANA]

nrico - so if Tyrone have such great footballers etc how come they are nowhere near as consistent as Kerry, have less titles and get beaten by the likes of Laois/Mayo etc

Dubsforsam, I honestly didn't think you were stupid enough to ask me that question with serious intent, then I saw your profile name and realised maybe you could be.  You mention Laois and Mayo as if they are some low level football side - Laois won a few Leinster's earlier this decade and were seen as a capable side while Mayo beat the mighty Dubs in Croke Park and have reached 2 All Ireland Finals and been to the latter stages regularly.  But in the years in question its common knowledge that Tyrone have had serious factors going against them in 2004 their captain passed away and I am sure this shifted the focus from football to the more important things in life while in 2006 the Tyrone side available to be put out for the championship was a shadow of the side that had won the All Ireland the previous September.  Consistency is one thing but throw in the route a team from Munster has to the latter stages of an All Ireland final with that of a team from Ulster and you will see that one path is a little easier, and again that's common knowledge.  You question why Tyrone have less titles than Kerry considering how great the Tyrone players are - I feel that its a stretch to far even for the Tyrone players to play long enough to equal Kerry's total.  But you never know 

Nrico - Resorting to personal abuse is a sign your losing the arguement.....Have Kerry lost to anyone at the level of Laois/Mayo (in fact they absolutely destroyed Mayo in the All-Ireland)...They have lost to Tyrone that is effectively it. Yes you lost your captain in 04 and that was a massive loss I agree but Kerry have suffered massive retirements and losing players also and still made finals/semi-finals....I was asking why over the last decade why they have less and been far less consistent....What your saying is that Tyrone need to have everyone available to win it seems...

As well as that is a dublin v kerry thread- can we stick to the debate about the match please and who's going to win etc? if people want to setup another tyrone v kerry thread- then open up a new thread.

[IolarCoisCuain]

If Kerry are lacking a bit of balls in their displays this summer, maybe Jack O'Connor ought to give this buck down in Killarney a run?

http://www.examiner.ie/world/women-warned-of-serial-flasher-in-national-park-97548.html

There'd be a problem keeping him togged, of course.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

A little piece of perspective, from today's Irish Times:

Kingdom's record means it's not a rivalry of equals

DAMIAN CULLEN

DERBY DAYS 2009 ALL-IRELAND SFC QUARTER-FINAL: This is a modern rivalry. Or at least, it should and could be. It began in 2001, not 1923 or 1976, in Semple Stadium, and it's 3-0 to Kerry

FORGET WHAT you've been told. This is not an old rivalry. For most, it's fresh and new. A 21st century duel.

The joke doing the rounds two years ago before their All-Ireland semi-final meeting was that Elvis was still alive the last time Dublin beat Kerry. That mocking gag still stands today, and, if past battles are anything to go by, will be coming to a mobile phone near you again after next Monday evening's clash at headquarters.

Perhaps even more pertinently, out of the Dublin side that started against Kildare in the Leinster final earlier this month, only Jason Sherlock was alive the last time his county defeated Kerry in championship football. The seasoned Dublin forward was a year and a half the day of the 1977 All-Ireland football semi-final.

And for many of the spectators at Croke Park next Monday (and surely at least 90 per cent of those occupying Hill 16) the great battles of three decades ago are as relevant as the clashes in the early 1930s were to those who watched the counties trade blows in the late 1970s and early '80s.

Since 1977, Dublin haven't beaten Kerry – a losing streak which includes four All-Ireland final defeats. And up to the meeting the year before, in 1976, Dublin had not overcome the Munster giants in 42 years. Presumably the joke doing the rounds in the build-up to the 1976 decider was along the lines that, the last time Dublin had beaten Kerry, WB Yeats was still alive and well. Two memorable victories in eight decades does not a great rivalry make.

While Dublin did a celebrated double over their "rivals" in 1976 and '77, Kerry have more than gained revenge – giving the home side two unmerciful beatings before the end of that decade – by 17 points in 1978 and 11 points in 1979. And the southern grip was almost as tight in the finals of 1984 and '85, despite Dublin being the reigning All-Ireland champions in 1983, when Cork pipped their neighbours by a point in the Munster decider thus ensuring Dublin avoided a meeting with Jack O'Shea and Co.

Excuses or not (and pointing to injuries such as Brian Mullins' unfortunate car accident for Dublin's slide is as relevant as blaming John Joe Sheehy for being anti-treaty and therefore missing the 1923 All-Ireland final when Dublin beat Kerry by two points) the Kingdom's record in the derby games means it's not a rivalry of equals. Traditionally, it's been merely a step on the road for one side.

Even after the 1923 defeat, Kerry did not have to wait long to avenge a rare defeat by the Jackeens. In the following year's decider, played in April 1925, the sides met again and, coincidentally considering what is occurring off Jones' Road at the moment, the pitch was resurfaced especially for the occasion.

The build-up – though not quite the hype-filled mushroom cloud we're now used to – nevertheless reflected the enthusiasm in the football heartlands and 30,000 turned up at headquarters, 10,000 more than for the previous year's decider.

The scoreline perhaps does not do the tie justice, as match reports talk generously of the skill level. Still, neither side managed a score in the first 20 minutes, and by the break Kerry had their noses in front, three points to two. In fact, the teams managed just one more score each in the second period – Kerry winning by a point.

Witnesses on Monday will demand more accuracy. But more than that. For this rivalry to have any credibility, it demands a win by Dublin. Otherwise, the rivalry sits with Armagh and Roscommon, who also played out several classic contests in the late 1970s and early '80s. That Kerry men are again falling over themselves to emphasise how much the rivalry with Dublin means is not particularly relevant. There are other motives at work.

Kerry's rivalry is with Cork. In fact, they have more reason to celebrate a victory over Down than Dublin. The Ulster county have had the good sense to avoid the Kingdom when they've been at their strongest, and are the only county with a 100 per cent record against Kerry. Four championship clashes. Four victories – two (1960 and 1968) in All-Ireland senior football finals.

Kerry players, officials and supporters will be happy to watch their fifth column – the multitude of former Kerry players now spread across the media world – talking up the rivalry in the build-up to Monday, and in so doing talking up Dublin's chances.

History tells us, however, that, for Kerry, clashes with Dublin are not really about life and death. In reality, the battles have almost always resulted in life for Kerry, and death for Dublin.

No, this is a modern rivalry. Or at least, it should and could be. It began in 2001, not 1923 or 1976.

It was started by Maurice Fitzgerald, who stood at the Old Stand side of Semple Stadium and launched a beautiful kick that was roared over the bar by Kerry's supporters to earn a draw in a pulsating match at the same stage of the championship as Monday's.

The score in this rivalry stands at 3-0 (with one draw) to Kerry and so its future depends on Monday's result.

[muppet]

The fifth cloumn
in the fourth estate
this decade's series is three - zip
between the two giants
only one conclusion:
Kerry

[Hound]

Any word on Donaghy? Irish Times this morning said he'll probably be on the bench, but apparently it was on the radio this morning that he's out.

Kerry still have a lot of options for the forward line. If whatever they go with doesnt work, they do have room to change.

Any word on possible changes to the Dublin team? An unchanged line-up bar Cullen for Ger would be the obvious. Can't see any more changes in defence, though I wonder would Hubbard be a better man for Darren O'Sullivan than Andrews?

I think I'd go with Whelan and McConnell at midfield but I'm admittedly biased against Magee. Connolly is the one forward under pressure for his place, and I wonder are the management thinking of putting McConnell at half forward with Whelo/Magee in the middle. At least that would give us one potential game changing forward option off the bench. Burke is fine as a workhorse off the bench, but he's not what you'd call a dangerman, and I don't rate Quinn's ability whatsoever to change a game off the bench.

Really looking forward to it.

[Son_of_Sam]

nrico - so if Tyrone have such great footballers etc how come they are nowhere near as consistent as Kerry, have less titles and get beaten by the likes of Laois/Mayo etc

Dubsforsam, I honestly didn't think you were stupid enough to ask me that question with serious intent, then I saw your profile name and realised maybe you could be.  You mention Laois and Mayo as if they are some low level football side - Laois won a few Leinster's earlier this decade and were seen as a capable side while Mayo beat the mighty Dubs in Croke Park and have reached 2 All Ireland Finals and been to the latter stages regularly.  But in the years in question its common knowledge that Tyrone have had serious factors going against them in 2004 their captain passed away and I am sure this shifted the focus from football to the more important things in life while in 2006 the Tyrone side available to be put out for the championship was a shadow of the side that had won the All Ireland the previous September.  Consistency is one thing but throw in the route a team from Munster has to the latter stages of an All Ireland final with that of a team from Ulster and you will see that one path is a little easier, and again that's common knowledge.  You question why Tyrone have less titles than Kerry considering how great the Tyrone players are - I feel that its a stretch to far even for the Tyrone players to play long enough to equal Kerry's total.  But you never know  

Nrico - Resorting to personal abuse is a sign your losing the arguement.....Have Kerry lost to anyone at the level of Laois/Mayo (in fact they absolutely destroyed Mayo in the All-Ireland)...They have lost to Tyrone that is effectively it. Yes you lost your captain in 04 and that was a massive loss I agree but Kerry have suffered massive retirements and losing players also and still made finals/semi-finals....I was asking why over the last decade why they have less and been far less consistent....What your saying is that Tyrone need to have everyone available to win it seems...

How can anyone be comparing Mayo & Laois as being on the same level over the last 5 years or so, Mayo have been miles ahead of them, and a bit ahead of Dublin, the records in both Championship & League prove that & also in head to head matches. Leinster teams V outside opposite opposition has been awfull over that time, while Connacht & esp. Mayo had a very good record. Only teams over that period that can be put ahead of Mayo was Tyrone & Kerry, maybe Cork & Armagh a few years back.

[INDIANA]

Any word on Donaghy? Irish Times this morning said he'll probably be on the bench, but apparently it was on the radio this morning that he's out.

Kerry still have a lot of options for the forward line. If whatever they go with doesnt work, they do have room to change.

Any word on possible changes to the Dublin team? An unchanged line-up bar Cullen for Ger would be the obvious. Can't see any more changes in defence, though I wonder would Hubbard be a better man for Darren O'Sullivan than Andrews?

I think I'd go with Whelan and McConnell at midfield but I'm admittedly biased against Magee. Connolly is the one forward under pressure for his place, and I wonder are the management thinking of putting McConnell at half forward with Whelo/Magee in the middle. At least that would give us one potential game changing forward option off the bench. Burke is fine as a workhorse off the bench, but he's not what you'd call a dangerman, and I don't rate Quinn's ability whatsoever to change a game off the bench.

Really looking forward to it.

Looks like just the one change.

[Kerry Mike]

Tickets still on sale on TM , just nabbed a few there.

[Kerry Mike]

Kerry team V Dublin in All Ireland Quarter Final 09

(1) Diarmuid Murphy  (Dingle)
(2) Marc Ó Sé (An Ghaeltacht)
(3)  Tommy Griffin (Dingle)
(4) Tom O'Sullivan   (Rathmore)
(5) Tomás Ó Sé (An Ghaeltacht)
(6) Mike McCarthy  (Kilcummin)
(7) Killian Young (Renard) 
( Darragh Ó Sé (An Ghaeltacht)
(9) Seamus Scanlon  (Currow)
(10) Paul Galvin  (Finuge)
(11) Declan O'Sullivan  (Piarsaigh Na Dromada)
(12) Donnacha Walsh  (Cromane)
(13) Colm Cooper (Dr. Crokes)
(14) Tommy Walsh  (Kerins O'Rahilly)
(15) Darran O'Sullivan (Glenbeigh/Glencar) (Captain)

Subs:
(16) Ger Reidy  (Castleisland Desmonds)
(17) Aidan O'Mahony  (Rathmore)   
(18) Tadhg Kennelly  (Listowel Emmetts)
(19) Seán O'Sullivan  (Cromane)
(20)  Micheal Quirke  (Kerins O'Rahillys) 
(21) Paul O'Connor (Kenmare)
(22) Padraig Reidy (Scartaglin)
(23) Aidan O'Shea (Glenbeigh/Glencar) 
(24) Bryan Sheehan (St. Mary's)
(25) David Moran  (Kerins O'Rahilly's)
(26) Daniel Bohan (Austin Stacks)
(27) Barry John Walsh  (Kerins O'Rahillys))
(28) Kieran Quirke  (Duagh) 
(29) Maurice Corridan  (Finuge))
(30) Anthony Maher (Duagh)

[magickingdom]

cant believe tadhgs not starting

[Ball Hopper]

Line out the subs by position and I bet they give the starting 15 a run for it.

Edit...the subs mobility with Moran and Maher in the middle of the field give the subs the edge.

[Kerry Mike]

No major surprises in the Kerry line up but Jack has swung the axe in a few lines.

Concerned about Tommy Griffin in the full back line, he will probably pick up Kearney.
Expect Marc O'Se on Jayo and Tom O'Sullivan on Bernard Brogan, if that is how the Dubs line up.

But we have been anything but setted in this line so far this year and we will have to make changes quickly if things not going to plan early in game.

We have full back line options to bring on with Padraig Reidy who did well against Dublin 2 years ago and also Aidan O'Shea, Aidan O'Mahony, and even the height of Daniel Bohane if required

The half line see Tomas restored instead of O'Mahony after his 30 minutes "rest last weekend, hopefully his fire will be up for the Dubs, the O'Se's love playing Dublin. Again O'Mahony or O'Shea could come in and do a job. Mike Mc has done well on his return and the release from the shackles of the full back role he had in an earlier life has done the team well. Stil lwill have his hands full with one of the Brogans next weekend. Killian Young's return to full fitness is a boost and his speed, and defensive qualities will be much in need on Monday.

Darragh will hopefully have blown out a bit more of the dirty petrol this week and has improved in the last few games, will still only be probaly 60 mins in him but expect few skelps between himself and Whelan if they meet. Scanlon too has come into some form, but distribution has let him down. Will need another 10% improvement this week, Quirke will be in for the last 15-20 mins and expects him to win his share of ball , his mobility has always been a problem, but I wonder who will track Shane Ryan when introduced.Good to see Anthony Maher back in the panel from injury but this a a game too soon for him, David  Moran and Kennelly could also be used here and again Jack need ot react if we are not winning ball.

Our half line looks like a line of strength and all3 will scrap for midfield ball, Galvin is playing well but hopefully he still has more in him, needs to keep his concentration on football matters and not get dragged into any off the ball stuff, the Jackeens will try and wind him up, Declan too has shown spurts of his ability so far but needs a good 70 mins here in the engine room and providde the front men with plenty of workable ball. Walsh will contribute early but has a tendancy to fade and I'd expect him to make way for Kennelly or Moran.

The Gooch makes a welcome return after sitting in the bold boy corner for a while last weekend, still playing below par , but he still puts the shits up most defenders, and if Tommy Walsh can lay him off for a few early scores he could just click. I think he is not far away and just his confidence is a bit low. I'd expect Cooper to take the frees and he needs to settle early.

Tommy needs to bring Darren and Gooch into the game , has been inclined to go for his own scores sometimes when players are in better positions but he will hopefully torment Bastick and run at him if he gets a chance too.

Darren too need to take his opportunity and get in with a few scores, another who will be subbed if things are not going his way with Bryan Sheenhan  Paul O'Connor and  BJ Walsh all vying for his spot.

It all roads to Croker now and hopefully we can get into the game early and at least keep the ball kicked out to Dublin  

The excitement is building, Dublin games always gets the blood flowing for any Kerry man , its the life long tradition of Culchie v Jackeen I suppose and one of the few games where we have the support of most of the other counties. Hard to call how it will go
but it could be the last hurrah for many Kerry players and they will not go down without a fight.

[Kerry Mike]

The B Team... something along these lines.

Ger Reidy  (Castleisland Desmonds)
Kieran Quirke  (Duagh) 
Aidan O'Shea (Glenbeigh/Glencar) 
Padraig Reidy (Scartaglin)
Maurice Corridan  (Finuge))
Aidan O'Mahony  (Rathmore)   
Daniel Bohan (Austin Stacks)
Micheal Quirke  (Kerins O'Rahillys)
Anthony Maher (Duagh)
David Moran  (Kerins O'Rahilly's)
Tadhg Kennelly  (Listowel Emmetts)
Seán O'Sullivan  (Cromane)
Paul O'Connor (Kenmare)
Bryan Sheehan (St. Mary's)
Barry John Walsh  (Kerins O'Rahillys))

[Kerry Mike]

03.08.2009 (Mon)
GAA Football All Ireland Senior Championship
Quarter Finals
Páirc an Chrócaigh 2.00pm Áth Cliath v Ciarraí RTE2
Referee: Pat McEnaney (Muineachán)
(E.T. if Necessary)


Good call giving McEnaney the whistle for this. One of the better ones...

[heffo]

Cullen in for Brennan is only change to the named team - I wouldn't be surprised to see a change or two on the day.

Not a chance in hell of that Kerry 'team' starting..