Armagh management :Paddy O'Rourke!!!

eireogatron · July 23, 2009, 01:01:48 PM

its true that we seem to develop top teams every 25 years or so, but i think that is not going to be the case anymore. As everyone knows, the development of youth in Armagh has been brutally undervalued since the beginning of the association. However, in recent years we have made giant strides in this respect. When you consider we only won our first U-21 Ulster 11-12 years ago, the transformation has been marked. More U-21's have since followed, as have minor titles and we have a particularly good crop this year (the U-21s cruelly robbed of the Ulster as well). I think this bodes for a more frequently successful future than in past cycles. Also, we have neve experienced sustained success as we have done over the past few years. young players in the panel used to have to wait years to compete in their first Ulster or whatever, but this current crop of players, virtually every single on has some sort of Ulster medal.
Of course this does not guaratee success - look at the fortunes of the Down senior team in recent years. However, I do think that if our renewed professionalism with regard to proper development squads throughout all underage groups contiues, it will breed better minor, U21 and senior squads.

nrico2006 · July 23, 2009, 01:09:47 PM

Stevie McDonnell or Charlie Vernon would not get on the Tyrone team. Ronan Clarke would, and possibly Andy Mallon.

crossfire · July 23, 2009, 02:05:33 PM

If Peter Mc Donnell was manager of any one of at least 20 other counties in Ireland and won a provincial championship for them he would be a hero or if he had been manager of Armagh in the mid nineties and won the ulster title he would also have been deemed a hero.
Unfortunately for peter the success of Armagh in the last decade has left fans with unrealistically high expectations.
I am convinced that regardless of who took over Armagh in 2008 they would struggle to satisfy those expectations.
Armagh have lost 13 or 14 quality player over the last couple of years and these boys cannot be replaced overnight.
Peter is a good manager but was unlucky to take over when most of Armaghs good players were coming to the end of their careers.
Not many managers have won Ulster tiles at under 21, senior and club level.
Thanks peter and hopefully you will make a return sometime when expectations are not so high

T Fearon · July 23, 2009, 02:12:15 PM

But it wasn't fan pressure or unrealistic expectations that forced Mc Donnell out. Lets face it all managers at every level, in very code,have to deal with unrealistic expectations to a degree.Is there a county manager who has not been vilified on this Board for example?

I think Mc Donnell should elaborate as to the precise reasons why he left, and name those who undermined him and exactly what they did. It seems like these are the people that need to be cleared out before any new manager is appointed.

By the way Oisin seems to hve been fairly scathing and personal in his criticism of Mc Donnell in his various newspaper columns since the Monaghan defeat. Is this just sour grapes because he wasn't selected last year or is it something deeper?

full back · July 23, 2009, 02:19:06 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on July 23, 2009, 02:12:15 PM
By the way Oisin seems to hve been fairly scathing and personal in his criticism of Mc Donnell in his various newspaper columns since the Monaghan defeat. Is this just sour grapes because he wasn't selected last year or is it something deeper?

Oisin is saying what a large amount of supporters are saying, just many of them dont have the platform to say it.
Most of the other commentators/analysts sit on the fence & wont say fcuk all wrong
At least he is calling it as he see's it

eireogatron · July 23, 2009, 02:51:08 PM

Quote from: crossfire on July 23, 2009, 02:05:33 PM
If Peter Mc Donnell was manager of any one of at least 20 other counties in Ireland and won a provincial championship for them he would be a hero or if he had been manager of Armagh in the mid nineties and won the ulster title he would also have been deemed a hero.
Unfortunately for peter the success of Armagh in the last decade has left fans with unrealistically high expectations.
I am convinced that regardless of who took over Armagh in 2008 they would struggle to satisfy those expectations.
Armagh have lost 13 or 14 quality player over the last couple of years and these boys cannot be replaced overnight.
Peter is a good manager but was unlucky to take over when most of Armaghs good players were coming to the end of their careers.
Not many managers have won Ulster tiles at under 21, senior and club level.
Thanks peter and hopefully you will make a return sometime when expectations are not so high

he lost his last 3 championship matches. that is fact. how is it unrealistic to expect someone to manage a team full of medal winners to win even 1 match in 2009? nobody called for his head when we were out of ulster, nobody expected an All Ireland - top 8/12 was the ambition. How is that unrealistic?

We were absolutely disgraceful against Monaghan performance wise. For my part the performance rather than the result spelt the end. A terrible performance against a team who were put out at the next hurdle by a team who were then put out at the next hurdle to a Donegal team who in all probability will be put out in the next hurdle.

Give over with talk of over expectation please as what the vast majority of us expected was not trophies, but a change of tack in performance, and a couple of wins with AI Q/F being the height of our hopes for the year.

naka · July 23, 2009, 03:43:57 PM

whilst i dont want to appear churlish
Peter won ulster last year beating cavan, down and fermangh( hardly powerhouses of Ulster football at present)
he also lost to wexford in what many believe was caused by extremely negative tactics
I for one was all for giving him the benefit of the doubt when he said he realised we needed to be more expansive but when the championship came around we were more defensve than ever with a minimum of seven defendrrs playing every game.

I believe that he probably was underminded by elements within the county board and indeed by certain players but it doesnt get away from the fact that it was in everbody`s interests including his own that he resigned and at least in years to come he will be remembered as having won an ulster

bennydorano · July 23, 2009, 05:05:22 PM

I cant see who from within the Co Board would want to undermine McDonnell when they ensured his accession to the throne in hottly contested circumstances in the first place. If McDonnell's 'statement' does see the light of day, I reckon it'll be current and ex-players named as the main culprits of the 'sabotage'.

The GAA · July 23, 2009, 05:17:37 PM

Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.

orangeman · July 23, 2009, 05:18:02 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on July 23, 2009, 05:05:22 PM
I cant see who from within the Co Board would want to undermine McDonnell when they ensured his accession to the throne in hottly contested circumstances in the first place. If McDonnell's 'statement' does see the light of day, I reckon it'll be current and ex-players named as the main culprits of the 'sabotage'.

[/b]

It will hardly be Francie !

Farrandeelin · July 23, 2009, 05:22:39 PM

Did that Malachy Macken ever make it on the senior Armagh team? He won an u-21 in 04 I think and he looked good that day.

Sandy Hill · July 23, 2009, 06:00:37 PM

Quote from: The GAA on July 23, 2009, 05:17:37 PM

Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.

Both from South Armagh?

bennydorano · July 23, 2009, 06:10:47 PM

Quote from: The GAA on July 23, 2009, 05:17:37 PM

Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.

I can only assume you are alluding to JK and Hughie. I thought they were central to the installation of PMcD, cant see what's to be gained by them turning Turk?

rootthemout · July 23, 2009, 06:27:05 PM

interview with pmcd 630 rte radio

stew · July 23, 2009, 06:55:19 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on July 23, 2009, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: The GAA on July 23, 2009, 05:17:37 PM

Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.
I can only assume you are alluding to JK and Hughie. I thought they were central to the installation of PMcD, cant see what's to be gained by them turning Turk?

Joe did a number on Grimley, what makes the McDonnell any different?