Armagh management :Paddy O'Rourke!!!

[irunthev]

 Where does the belief and system come from?  The management.

I'd say a competetive County Champioship plays a big part in it. The price of success of Crossmaglen must be paid soewhere.

Dont agree with this at all
When Armagh were winning plenty from 2000 on, Cross were the dominant force as they are now, so it hadnt any effect on the county team then, same as it hasnt any effect now IMHO

It does however contribute to a mentality of not believing it is possible to win. If you have entered your Championship year in year out for the past ten years or so and the same team has won it each time (and its not your team), the mind starts to tell you that you aren't a winner. You carry that mindset into the county arena too.

[full back]

 Where does the belief and system come from?  The management.

I'd say a competetive County Champioship plays a big part in it. The price of success of Crossmaglen must be paid soewhere.

Dont agree with this at all
When Armagh were winning plenty from 2000 on, Cross were the dominant force as they are now, so it hadnt any effect on the county team then, same as it hasnt any effect now IMHO

It does however contribute to a mentality of not believing it is possible to win. If you have entered your Championship year in year out for the past ten years or so and the same team has won it each time (and its not your team), the mind starts to tell you that you aren't a winner. You carry that mindset into the county arena too.

C'mon lads, in fairness that is bollocks

When Armagh were successful, not one person was saying Cross winning the championship/AI year in year out is doing us harm, quite the opposite in fact

We are looking for scapegoats here to blame for the decline of the county team
Cross winning everything isnt the reason for this decline

[Orior]

When the 2002 team took the field there was an swagger/arrogance/self belief about them. I think it stemmed from the Cross boys, and in particular the McEntees.

IMHO (which I rate very higly), we've never had that swagger since John and Tony left the panel.

[Zapatista]

We all have our own opinions on it but given the choice I'd say competetive club football is better for a county.

[irunthev]

When the 2002 team took the field there was an swagger/arrogance/self belief about them. I think it stemmed from the Cross boys, and in particular the McEntees.

IMHO (which I rate very higly), we've never had that swagger since John and Tony left the panel.

Unbelieveable!  I was just about to post that the decline began with the loss of the McEntees.  Cross self belief was carried into the county by the players and JK.  Thier club success was a platform for county success.

The same can be said of the current Tyrone set up, as the players took so much self belief with them from the under age success they had. It is certainly a key factor... self belief. You can physically and tactically prepare a guy as much as you like, but if he doesn't believe that he is a winner then you are wasting your time. Most of the top 16 county teams have a fair degree of talent, they all train exactly the same, do the same weights and gym work and do similar ball training, play in the same Nat League competition, the difference is, most of them don't really believe they can win. Success breeds success.

[full back]

When the 2002 team took the field there was an swagger/arrogance/self belief about them. I think it stemmed from the Cross boys, and in particular the McEntees.

IMHO (which I rate very higly), we've never had that swagger since John and Tony left the panel.

Unbelieveable!  I was just about to post that the decline began with the loss of the McEntees.  Cross self belief was carried into the county by the players and JK.  Thier club success was a platform for county success.

The same can be said of the current Tyrone set up, as the players took so much self belief with them from the under age success they had. It is certainly a key factor... self belief. You can physically and tactically prepare a guy as much as you like, but if he doesn't believe that he is a winner then you are wasting your time. Most of the top 16 county teams have a fair degree of talent, they all train exactly the same, do the same weights and gym work and do similar ball training, play in the same Nat League competition, the difference is, most of them don't really believe they can win. Success breeds success.

Regardless, Cross winning the county championship has nothing to do with the demise of the county team

[DuffleKing]

There is quite a bit of rose tinted glasses now where the mcentees are concerned. John was a focal point of that team but was forever being criticised for being combersome, drifting out of games and slowing down the speed of attacks. Tony only ever made the starting 15 for armagh in 2003 if memory serves me correctly?
As ever, players will get better as time goes on.

[The GAA]

Glad to have missed so many pages of this lads. Where is any of this whataboutary going to get McDonnell and more importantly what is it going to do for armagh football?

McDonnell obviously has an axe to grind (rumour mill in full swing) but washing armagh's dirty linen in public is only prolonging his own agony and defacing armagh football imho.

[orangeman]

Joe Kernan has ruled himself out of a return to the manager's job in Armagh.

Armagh are in the hunt for a new boss after Peter McDonnell stepped down, but Kernan cited work commitments as his reason for declining the chance to return.

'In one way, I'd love to go back but I'm just involved with a business project and I'm putting all my energies into that,' he said in hoganstand.com.

'But whoever gets the job, there's a great bunch of young lads there. They're young and enthusiastic and certainly he (the new manager) won't be going in starting from scratch.'

He went on: 'I was very lucky to work with my club and my county. I do believe that with all the young boys who are there, we have a good future. But at this minute in time, I would have to say no.

'I'm going to look after my business. We've got a lot of very big contracts and I think it's time for me to look after myself.'

[Diet Coke]

Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?

[Orior]

Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?

Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke

[corn02]

Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?

Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke

Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.

[armaghniac]

Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.

The point is that these players might not supplant a Tyrone player, but they could still be comparable to them. Tyrone have a system where everyone knows that they are expected to do and players have grown within that. Tyrone have a few players that are the best in the country, but many are not in a different class than other intercounty players, just in a better class of system.

Armagh in 1999-2002 had to rise from a low level, the present team all have Ulster medals, AI U-21 medals and the like. Armagh does not have the population of Kerry and will not win AIs every year, but can stay within striking distance of one.

[The GAA]

doubt very much if kevin o'rourke, steven kernan or brian mallon would make the tyrone squad

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Loosing Dyas to Australia didnt help either.

Another view is that the next All-Ireland is 20-30 years away.

That is a real possibility.

On the other hand the difference between the best and the chasing pack is not as great as some would like to think.  Part of it is about making others think the gap is much greater than it is and that they lack the belief.  Armagh were masters of this for quite a few years from 2002.  With the right ingredients, a squad of relatively modest players built around a system in which they believe, who can operate it without thinking and with a few high quality players can beat anyone, e.g. Tyrone.  Where does the belief and system come from?  The management.

History suggests that Armagh produce a team that is capable of chalenging at the highest level every 25 years or so. It is possible that we could face that sort of wait again but I think we have the potential to ensure it isn't that long.

Do people think the new manager should also have control of the u21 team? Also, and I genuinely mean no harm to Crossmaglen when I say this, but I hope they aren't involved in the All Ireland series past Christmas this year. Missing so many players for the majority of the league seriously hinders the development of a side for the championship. For example, had McDonnell been able to blood Paul Kernan into the team during the league this year, we may not have have had the Aidan O'Rourke debacle.