Orange arches

[Evil Genius]

As regards the IFA engaging the nationalist community of the six counties, it would be churlish to deny there's not a fair bit going on ... but it's too little way too late. 

Aside from the fact that it would actually be impossible  to deny (otherwise you'd be doing just that, I suspect), is "too little, too late" the best criticism you can come up with?
Is that why the GAA presently appears to do virtually sod-all to cross the divide, such that their entire set-up in NI is pretty much exclusively Nationalist/Catholic? "Too late" or "No point"? Or "Don't care"? Even "Prefer it that way"?  

The vast majority of nationalists have absolutely no interest in supporting owc, how could they when the very essence of Irish nationalism is the non-recognition of the statelet or anything that gives the statelet legitimacy, such as an 'international' football team .

Fine. But if their objection is to the very concept  of an NI team, rather than how such a team operates etc, then short of voluntarily disbanding, the IFA could never hope to appeal to what you term "the vast majority of nationalists".
Yet still the IFA continues, at an ever increasing pace. Hmmm, maybe they have time and money to burn, eh? Or might it just be that they are actually being increasingly successful in their efforts? Perish the thought...
(Btw, isn't it lucky for Irish rugby that the majority of Unionists in NI don't let their own political preferences deter them from supporting an all-Ireland rugby team? Or NI cricket fans. And yet we're the blinkered ones, apparently)

there's also the fact the team's support still includes a significant section of loyalist bigots (as our Polish and Romanian visitors have found to their cost recently)...

Aye right, it was NI football fans who were responsible for the trouble surrounding the recent Poland game. In fact, here is even a confession by that well-known uber-Prod, Aleksandra Lojek, writing in the Orange Order's in-house magazine:

"Rioting by Polish 'pseudo fans' under a republican flag threatens to entangle Belfast's Poles in sectarian violence

By Aleksandra Lojek-Magdziarz, Wednesday 1 April 2009 10.00 BST
   
Rioting of the kind provoked by Polish football hooligans in Belfast at the weekend is a sadly frequent occurrence in Poland. Now I fear these people may do a great deal of damage to relations between Northern Irish and Polish communities in the city.

The Polish police use tough measures to control hooligans: water cannons are routinely deployed around football stadiums before the games. Stop and search powers are widely used. Public transport is usually surrounded and monitored by armed policemen and dogs. Before one derby fixture I witnessed in Krakow, the police confiscated axes, knives and other weapons. Fans transported by special cars became so furious that they pushed out the windows from the inside. Then they jumped out of the vehicles and started to tear up the pavement and hurl missiles at rival fans and police. After the game, shop windows were smashed, trams and buses were vandalised, a number of people were beaten up and police officers were injured.

When sanctions against a football team in Krakow were imposed, fans became so enraged that they demolished the city centre. Gangs of hooligans do not just beat up rival fans: they occasionally kill them. Women are more or less immune from attack, but men will avoid certain areas of Krakow on the night of a match.

Not all Polish football fans are violent, of course, the majority are ordinary people who love football, but an aggressive minority are loud and highly dangerous. I have great respect for the Police Service of Northern Ireland, but they seem to have been ill-prepared for the influx of thugs.

"Pseudo fans", as we call them in Polish, use various thoughtless symbols to underscore their rebellious attitude. In Northern Ireland they used a republican flag to provoke people in Belfast. It revealed their absolute ignorance: they do not support dissident republicans in the slightest, mainly because they have no idea who they are. Back in Poland, some of the hooligans call themselves "Hezbollah" and proclaim "jihad" on other teams. You can bet they know nothing about Middle Eastern politics.

In Krakow, graffiti depicting Jewish symbols hung on gallows is common, which understandably shocks Jewish visitors. Fans of Cracovia, an old local team that originated before the second world war, are often dubbed "the Jews" because Wisla, the rival team, did not accept them.

Unfortunately, however, Polish migrants living in Belfast are being tainted by the hooligans' actions. Polish houses are being attacked, shop windows smashed and abuse hurled at them.

The government and NGOs have been doing their best to ease tensions with grassroots projects such as Frank Higgins's Thin End of the Wedge. The vulnerability of the economy, and the fact that many Poles are staunch Catholics, can lead to problems. The good work of people like Higgins could be ruined thanks to the brainless thugs who came to Belfast, often ticketless, to start the violence. Suddenly Poles have become entangled in the longstanding political and sectarian conflict. I hope that the communities will come to their senses and will realise that the hooligans were not local, integrated Poles. But it could take a while"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/31/football-hooligans-belfast-polish-poland


As for your attempt to link the NI team with the recent attacks on those Romanians, that is nearly as contemptible as the attacks themselves.  

P.S. Slovenia came to Belfast to play a World Cup game five days after the Poland game, and there wasn't the slightest hint of trouble. Any idea why? Maybe they're all good loyal Prods in that part of the world?  

[TORGAEL]

And as sure as day turns into night, certain posters completely sidetrack this thread for their own bickering.

[The Watcher Pat]

Surely if these arches are erected on main roads they would have to be insured...(public liability insurance at the very least) in case it fell..

Wonder what would happen if you were to smash into it in your car?

[red hander]

'As for your attempt to link the NI team with the recent attacks on those Romanians, that is nearly as contemptible as the attacks themselves'

Er, where did I link the team, Brains Trust?  I was clearly talking about a significant element of the support ... for you to totally misrepresent what I wrote and then brand it as bad as what happnened to those Romanians at the hands of loyalist scum is pathetic ... I could give as much a f**k about your NI team as you could about the Ireland team ... so away and trawl google for more reams of cac to back up your prejudices, you don't have long before mummy comes up with your milk and cookies before she kisses you goodnight and turns the light off ... bless

[armaghniac]

used a republican flag to provoke people in Belfast.

What is this republican flag that these Poles had? Poland is a republic, so no problem there. Perhaps they had an Irish flag, but then OWC represents all of the people of NI, many of whom fly Irish flags, so that couldn't have been the problem.

[fred the red]

P.S. Slovenia came to Belfast to play a World Cup game five days after the Poland game, and there wasn't the slightest hint of trouble. Any idea why? Maybe they're all good loyal Prods in that part of the world?  

No point trying to sugar coat over the fact that OWC fans were rioting against Poland (the weekend fixture no doubt added to the drinking/fans on streets etc)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf9_myDxzM0


the comment by the 'fan' says it all:

having a nice quiet pint when this kicked off on sat, such entertainment lol ulster til we die!
(1)"where do you find the book of polish war heros, on the back of a postage stamp"

(2) Why was hitler in a bad mood? cause he got his polish gas bill !!!!

[Orior]

I had the pleasure of driving through lovely Bloomfield in east Beal Feirste today. The roundabout was bedecked with the following flegs:

- Union Jack
- Northern Ireland
- Scotland
- Glasgow Rangers
- Orange Order
- Israel
- UDR (I think)


And no OWC fleg? Shocking. What the hell sort of supporters are up there? Maybe they are all Engerland fans. Or Scots. Or Jews.

[Chrisowc]

Luis - One of the few who played for both Real Madrid and Barcelona

[Chrisowc]

There should be a themuns cavalry.

[Roger]

used a republican flag to provoke people in Belfast.

What is this republican flag that these Poles had? Poland is a republic, so no problem there. Perhaps they had an Irish flag, but then OWC represents all of the people of NI, many of whom fly Irish flags, so that couldn't have been the problem.

[Mid Down Gael]

What a shit hole. Dont know how the good catholics who live there do so with trash like that up.

They would feel the exact same way as the good protestants that live in Kilcoo

Ha ha. All 3 families off them. Must be heartbreak for them.

[T Fearon]

There is a lot of tosh on this thread. Despite many initiatives (the sincerity of which is debatable when an organisation has a member of the OO at its helm and is being sued currently by a former employee for unfair dismissal on the grounds of rac ism), the North of Ireland soccer team run by the IFA is perceived to be a loyalist icon. Thats why its logo appears on arches etc and the IFA Flag appears at this time of year alongside the UK and bastardised Ulster Flag on many lamposts all ver the 6 counties.

The fact that it is perceived to be a loyalist icon should be a source of alarm to the IFA if it is sincere in promoting Football for All and it should be doing all in its power to promote a global sport in a neutral environment in a divided society. While the best way to do this on this island is to dispense with the absurdity of two international soccer teams each representing its own largely exclusive cxommunity in favour of one team representing all communities, the very least the IFA must do immediately is to stop using the flags,symbols anthems of one community only, which inevitably makes every North of Ireland game an opportunity to display unionist triumphalism at worst or assert political unionism at best.Until this happens any other gestures it might make will be largely perceived to be window dressing.

The GAA has a strategic plan to be more inclusive by the way, but once again as I've stated here before the GAA and IFA are in no way analogous, as one exists to promote a wholly indigenous  national culture (which unfortunately may not appeal to everyone due to their own personal prejudices) and the other is supposed to promote a global sport in its region withour fear, favour or prejudice.

[nrico2006]

I always found it strange that the arch up in Lurgan has 'Derry' embedded on it.

[ziggysego]

The advert banner at the top of this thread is for a Polish dating website 

[Orior]

There is a lot of tosh on this thread. Despite many initiatives (the sincerity of which is debatable when an organisation has a member of the OO at its helm and is being sued currently by a former employee for unfair dismissal on the grounds of rac ism), the North of Ireland soccer team run by the IFA is perceived to be a loyalist icon. Thats why its logo appears on arches etc and the IFA Flag appears at this time of year alongside the UK and bastardised Ulster Flag on many lamposts all ver the 6 counties.

The fact that it is perceived to be a loyalist icon should be a source of alarm to the IFA if it is sincere in promoting Football for All and it should be doing all in its power to promote a global sport in a neutral environment in a divided society. While the best way to do this on this island is to dispense with the absurdity of two international soccer teams each representing its own largely exclusive cxommunity in favour of one team representing all communities, the very least the IFA must do immediately is to stop using the flags,symbols anthems of one community only, which inevitably makes every North of Ireland game an opportunity to display unionist triumphalism at worst or assert political unionism at best.Until this happens any other gestures it might make will be largely perceived to be window dressing.

The GAA has a strategic plan to be more inclusive by the way, but once again as I've stated here before the GAA and IFA are in no way analogous, as one exists to promote a wholly indigenous  national culture (which unfortunately may not appeal to everyone due to their own personal prejudices) and the other is supposed to promote a global sport in its region withour fear, favour or prejudice.

Today's topical quiz.

Q. What does TOSH stand for?