Leinster hurling final - DUBLIN V Kilkenny

[scalder]

Indiana Wexford are not in the minor final yet, we've to play Westmeath tomorrow night in Portalaoise - Dublin made the mistake of taking them for granted, lets hope we don;t make the same one!

[INDIANA]

that was offaly who took them for granted- we lost to laois. still I'd fancy wexford to win leinster.

[awfulynice]

Antrim Hurlers havent, no more than 3000 Antrim fans at any match for the last 15 years

but apparently they are true fans and anyone else is not welcome as they are only plastic fans which want to go on the piss.....   

Tankie in fairness...there are very few other counties that have many fans that travel to go on the piss...why because its generally about 100 miles away from their home and they have to drive...so no there is no makeup quite like the dublin football fans.

I would disagree - when the Armagh and Tyrone bandwagon are you actually telling me non f then were piss head fans? Or Kilkenny, Kerry or Laois fans for a big game or a final.....

Well I cant claim to know anything about Armagh, Tyrone or Kerry fans..they are footballing teams and we havent played them in quite a while. Perhaps they have the same piss head fans as dublin im not sure...if it is it is to their shame.

Laois & Kilkenny I know quite well as we play them every year and id definately disagree that they get piss head fans. Ive never had a problem with their fans and ive never been treated anything as badly as at dublin football matches...i also dont remember them having the same amount or level of drunkedness as a dublin football match

So I'm a pisshead now because I go and watch the footballers? Of course no other county has pissheads of fans or who can't get to the ground on time.  I mean you're walking a tightrope with posts like that. The vast majority of Dublin football fans are fine. There is a perception created by a minority that we are all coke sniffing, tracksuit wearing, unemployed dole lifers, raging alcoholics that haven't  a watch between us.

I don't care who goes from Dublin. There is a certain snob element in relation to the dublin hurling support that would prefer to see 3,000 dubs rather than 30,000 because they wouldn't be termed "real" fans. Is it any wonder with thinking like that its taken 18 years. Thankfully the people in the county board who setup our development system didn't have such chips on their shoulders.

No and for the umpteen time in one thread i have to ask people to reread my posts. I was speaking about the minority of the dublin football supporters... As I said earlier I worked with stephen cluxetons sister, who plays for dublin ladies football team..she said the last time she was on the hill was 5 years ago she got bottles thrown at her when dublin lost and hasnt been in there since.....yes they are a minority and most dubs fans are ok..but they are a sizeable minority im afraid.

Your point about me saying no other county having pissheads is true. I would claim the pisshead to supporter ratio is about 1000 times higher at dublin games than any other...if you disagree im afraid you need to get out to more matches.

Im certainly not walking a tightrope saying no other teams can get their supporters into the game on time...this happens with dubs fans a couple of times a year lately...there is no county that has even close to as bad a record at time keeping!!

I hope there is a big crowd from dublin at the match..but i hope they are real fans..the 3000 dubs fans are right...no point in having 27,000 extra lads there that dont know the team, dont know the game, create pressure with unrealistic expectations and then turn on the team when these fail to materialise.

Give the free tickets to the plenty of proper dublin hurling supporters, There are plenty of them out there and they deserve a bit of gratitude for sticking with the game for so long in the wilderness. Wouldnt it be a wonderful gesture for the gaa to give 50 free tickets to each hurling club in dublin and KK to get a good crowd there and repay some of the hard work that is being done at grassroots level in both counties.

On the minor...yes it was offaly that were beaten by westmeath...i wouldnt exactly say on the hop. I think Westmeath will give Wexford a game but id fancy the yellow bellies to come throught it.

[Bud Wiser]

Back to the topic of the thread, I think the Dub's will give this a fair ould lash.  There is a great buzz around the place here in Dublin and the lads wonn't be going out with their minds fixed on just keeping the margin of defeat to its lowest.  Dubs have a strong back line and have gained a tremendous amount of experience but have they got strength in dept in their panel in that if one or two of their key players get injured have they got equal replacements?  I think not but with U21's coming through they are as good as anyone else and equally as good as any other team in Leinster to give the Cats a rattle. I am confident that no matter what the score is with twenty minutes to go that Dublin will give it 100% right to the final whistle - if they do that they will have done enough for me anyway, win loose or draw.

Tommy Walsh should have a great game again ensuring his nomination for an All-Star 

[Declan]

How time's have changed. The nephew was down in Parnell last night where Anto and the boys were signing autographs for gangs of youngfellas - He was gutted that he didn't get Dotsies

[Bud Wiser]

It was a special night advertised, well not advertised, but mentioned in the Herald as a Meet & Greet the players night where young fellas could come along and get autographs and meet the lads.   A bloody great idea, I think in my own county we have a problem getting the players to come along. I mentioned how my little grandson (7) got himself a hurl and how more young lads are been seen with hurls, well only yesterday his two little friends called for him and they had two new hurls as well and I put this down to the chatter that is going around the schools. Jeez, if the Dubs could beat the Cats's could you imagine what it would do, there wouldn't be an ash tree left in the country.

Me thinks Dubs will make a great game of it and Daly will still be doing all the sums right up to the day. If Larkin is watched closely and Eddie Brennan, who apart from the goal against Galway in which he was left in free space is watched and can be kept under control the Dub's backs will have won half the battle. Ground hurling?  Hate the expression but in tight situations following a breaking ball Dub's have to lash her out of it on the sod if they fail to get it into the paw on the first attempt because the Cats could rise the ball out of a bucket of stones and they have perfected the fella running outside waiting for the handpass out of four or five lads poking around trying tyo rise the ball and next thing it is a point at the other end.

Has anyone seen a training session of the Dub's, or are you allowed see one?

[awfulynice]

It was a special night advertised, well not advertised, but mentioned in the Herald as a Meet & Greet the players night where young fellas could come along and get autographs and meet the lads.   A bloody great idea, I think in my own county we have a problem getting the players to come along. I mentioned how my little grandson (7) got himself a hurl and how more young lads are been seen with hurls, well only yesterday his two little friends called for him and they had two new hurls as well and I put this down to the chatter that is going around the schools. Jeez, if the Dubs could beat the Cats's could you imagine what it would do, there wouldn't be an ash tree left in the country.

Me thinks Dubs will make a great game of it and Daly will still be doing all the sums right up to the day. If Larkin is watched closely and Eddie Brennan, who apart from the goal against Galway in which he was left in free space is watched and can be kept under control the Dub's backs will have won half the battle. Ground hurling?  Hate the expression but in tight situations following a breaking ball Dub's have to lash her out of it on the sod if they fail to get it into the paw on the first attempt because the Cats could rise the ball out of a bucket of stones and they have perfected the fella running outside waiting for the handpass out of four or five lads poking around trying tyo rise the ball and next thing it is a point at the other end.

Has anyone seen a training session of the Dub's, or are you allowed see one?

Its great to see such an interest level starting in Dublin Hurling, I hope that expectations arent too high and that the interest can be kept up even if Dublin fail to beat KK in the final.

I think Dublin will probably die on their feet to try and win this game, there is no doubt they have the physical elements to match Kilkenny but mentally KK have been in this situation before and will know how to deal with it.

Im afraid if you keep Larkin and Brennan quite...you have left out the best hurler of the last deacade in henry shefflin, im afraid he can beat teams on his own somedays!

[EddieMerx]

I think Awful has hit the nail on the head here, if you keep Larkin and Brennan quiet you still have King Henry, Power, Fogarty and also TJ Reid from the bench... That is why this Kilkenny team is so good!

[AZOffaly]

Aye but Kilkenny's oxygen is goals. If Dublin can keep Kilkenny to 0 or 1 goal, I reckon they have a chance. I know full well that Kilkenny can reel off 5 or 10 points in 5 minutes, but it's the goals at vital times that they really use to kill teams off. You can score on this Kilkenny team, especially if you run at them, but they usually render that a moot point by being 10 points up at the time.

Keep Eddie Brennan and Shefflin away from the onion bag, and I think Dublin will be very credible opponents. I can't see them beating the Cats, but I can see them making them draw their claws.

[INDIANA]

The key is goals the longer they go without one- the more the game stays in the melting pot. Couple of early majors then its curtains. Simple as that.

[AZOffaly]

Which, by the way, will be Kilkenny's game plan. I've never seen a team where the mantra 'take your points' means so little. From 50 or 60 metres out, grand, but when the FF line gets it inside 30 metres, they're turning the corner and heading for the twine.

[bottlethrower7]

Aye but Kilkenny's oxygen is goals. If Dublin can keep Kilkenny to 0 or 1 goal, I reckon they have a chance. I know full well that Kilkenny can reel off 5 or 10 points in 5 minutes, but it's the goals at vital times that they really use to kill teams off. You can score on this Kilkenny team, especially if you run at them, but they usually render that a moot point by being 10 points up at the time.

Not any more. Kilkenny abandoned that game plan a couple of years ago. Now its very  much a take your points, goals will come approach. Look at the scores Kilkenny have been clocking up in recent times. Lots of points. Not so many goals. And in a lot of those games (All-Ireland final for example) there aren't really too many cases of goals missed. They only go for goal when its a sure thing. Back in the day they tried to kill a game off in the first 15 minutes with goals, but there were too many examples of that having had a negative affect on them (league final vs Cork circa '04, semi-final against Galway '05).

Its hard not to see Kilkenny scoring at least 20 points in this game. Are Dublin capable of scoring more than that? I don't think so. Especially considering that Daly will almost certainly employ the extra defender tactic again, which I think is so wrong. All the moreso against Wexford where Shane Durkin was clearly the wrong man to have in that role.

An excellent Dublin performance against a very off-colour Kilkenny was not good enough in the league. Dublin also vastly outhurled Tipp in the league and came up short. Because of how hard it is to come by scores.

Whatever about Kilkenny and goals, if Dublin are to have any chance it is they that need goals. And they should adopt that approach. Run at the Kilkenny defense at every opportunity. Its playing to their own strengths. They have the speed and the fitness. Some of the Kilkenny backs are short on pace. So why not take them on? Durkin, Dotsy, McCrabbe, all capable of it. Maybe mix in one or 2 bigger lads to break ball, but let the game plan be very much based around speed.

It'll be damage limitation at the back. The backs need to do their best to limit Kilkenny however they can. But its the forwards that the real onus is on. You don't beat Kilkenny by containing them. You beat them by outscoring them. Thats why Dublin are doomed before the game even starts if Daly opts to take a man out of the full-forward line (Kilkenny never follow the man out - they always leave an extra man back).

[Declan]

Thats why Dublin are doomed before the game even starts if Daly opts to take a man out of the full-forward line (Kilkenny never follow the man out - they always leave an extra man back).

Sure you only want him to keep the 3 man FF line so that the Cats have more room in their HF line to absolutely go to town on the poor ould dubs BT

[bottlethrower7]

Thats why Dublin are doomed before the game even starts if Daly opts to take a man out of the full-forward line (Kilkenny never follow the man out - they always leave an extra man back).

Sure you only want him to keep the 3 man FF line so that the Cats have more room in their HF line to absolutely go to town on the poor ould dubs BT

I think its a given thats going to happen anyway (with Fallon out - though Boland deputised excellently well against Wexford).

Like I say, it should be about outscoring, not containment.

[INDIANA]

We're not good enough to outscore them- thats the bottom line. No team in the country is at present. I was at the league game in Nowlan Park aand it was nothing to do with the system that beat Dublin. Dublin beat themselves because they didn't believe they could win. So I still believe astute tactical plans can give Kilkenny problems. Cork have beaten them using tactics. But you have to have the players to do it and we don't have enough at present. You can go 15 on 15 - but the consequences could be horrible.

Don't anybody be under any illusions that Kilkenny won't be up for this on Sunday. They will want to bury Dublin into oblivion.