Ulster Semifinal- Derry v Tyrone 21/6/09 Casement Park

[rrhf]

No offence but Brollys description of Diver is very funny about the witless dog bounding out of the car,  but if i was diver id be pissed off.  

[talktothehand]

McMeniman is a hateful bollix but in fairness he is a good footballer.

Barry McGoldrick is a hateful bollix.

thats about the 3rd time youve given off about him. What he do yesterday?

In the game of football, fcuk all. In rows, always in slabbering, trying to start shit. A general nuisance. No point in him really.

He's like a wee man who reckons deep down he isn't hard enough for it. he's always arriving late in a scuffle and trying to grab people by the windpipe. was great to see younger cavanagh throwing him on his arse on sunday. mcgoldrick wasn't so keen to get involved after that!! 

[loughshore lad]

I know Cassidy is only in the job etc etc and he needs time ...

But these are the 3 positional decisions he made before the game that he should have known wouldn't work out
- Paul Murphy - No where near a midfielder at intercounty level, not even near fit enough
- Eoin Brown - Why? Youngster on one of Tyrones best players? Even Crook would have been better
- Enda Lynn - Same as above ... the Tyrone half back line is one of the best and he put his weakest players on them?

Things he got very right ...
- Gerard O'Kane - one of Derrys best nullified Cavanagh - though should he have been the extra man not McKaigue?
- SML - Good game on O'Neill 

Still Un-answered ...
- McCloy - Not worth 20 mins at midfield or CHB?
- Gilligan - Not worth a 30 min spell on the 40 as an impact sub? Has he nothing to offer?
- McKaigue - Does he contribute enough? He was a free man for most of the first half

Deets is no longer on the Derry squad - himself, Raymond Wilkinson and Michael McIver were surplus to requirements this year

Am I the only one who thinks he could have been useful? Or in fact if any of those were on the bench?
Funny you mention McIvor too - in Celtic Park in the League last year he ran the legs of Tyrone and was Man of the Match.
I know Cassidy probably wanted to kill the Ballinderry monopoly but he might have cut too many?

I was just looking at the Tyrone bench and just thinking if someone like Gilligan had been with Derry would Harte have cut someone with as much experience as him away completely the minute he came in or could have used him in some capacity?

Deets has been a fantastic club player over the last number of years (although was not as god last year in the games I saw) but struggled to translate that to the county arena.  At the same time from a derry perspective after 2 championship games it would appear those included this year at his expense dont offer anything more.  You could argue the same case for Crook and Michael McIver as well.  Harte very rarely drops any player, he is extremely loyal to his players (some would say its one of his few weaknesses) and usually what happens is players leave for their own reasons as opposed to being cut.

[JMohan]

Fair enough ... I'm not saying he was the difference or anything, I'm just thinking he might have had something to offer - even if just in training etc.

[screenmachine]

I think its been mentioned here before but I think Crook is ideal for one of the wing forward roles.  He can link the defence with attack, has the pace and engine to be up and down the line all day.  Crucially, he will also chip in with a few scores as well.  Its all well and good playing the wing role and getting up and down the line but your wing half forwards need to be scoring even one or two points every game.  Otherwise its pile everything into the Bradely's and we all know how that ends up.
I just get the impression that lynn isn't goin to offer anything on the scoreboard and even though I thought Brown started well on Sunday and should have had a point, he faded badly from the end of the 1st half until the end of the game and should have been replaced early on in the second half.

[JohnDenver]

Tyrone were cuter (and I definitely don't mean in looks), faster, stronger and fitter than Derry. Barry McGoldrick was on his knees (literally leaning on them) in the last 10 minutes. As were others. Fitness is a management issue. And why no 5th sub?

I genuinely think Derry have gone backwards fitness wise since last year if you look at how they came back strong against Kerry in the League Final and Monaghan in Clones. There are questions to be answered there.

Sad day all round.
Bring back Crozier ...!  

Derry came back strong in the league final against Kerry because Fergal Doc dragged the team along with him.  Lacking fitness is a very easy excuse for anybody to make.  Why was the fitness not questioned after the monaghan game?

Wasn't it John McCloskey responsible for Derry's fitness last year?  By all reports the players rated him, but Cassidy obviously wanted to get rid of as much of the crozier regime as possible, or maybe he was costing too much. 

[JMohan]

Tyrone were cuter (and I definitely don't mean in looks), faster, stronger and fitter than Derry. Barry McGoldrick was on his knees (literally leaning on them) in the last 10 minutes. As were others. Fitness is a management issue. And why no 5th sub?

I genuinely think Derry have gone backwards fitness wise since last year if you look at how they came back strong against Kerry in the League Final and Monaghan in Clones. There are questions to be answered there.

Sad day all round.
Bring back Crozier ...!  

Derry came back strong in the league final against Kerry because Fergal Doc dragged the team along with him.  Lacking fitness is a very easy excuse for anybody to make.  Why was the fitness not questioned after the monaghan game?

Wasn't it John McCloskey responsible for Derry's fitness last year?  By all reports the players rated him, but Cassidy obviously wanted to get rid of as much of the crozier regime as possible, or maybe he was costing too much. 

Fitness isn't the only excuse - but it's a point worth addressing.
To say that Doc was the sole cause is not accurate. He got a great goal and was inspirational, but guys like McCusker stepped up, Muldoon turned the screw, SML came in and did a job etc. So in all it was a team effort.
Your point about the Monaghan game is fair - though how good Monaghan are we'll probably only see their next weekend out against Armagh.
As for the McCloskey thing, money is probably a bigger factor this year, as for whether he was rated or not I'm not sure.

[JohnDenver]

Tyrone were cuter (and I definitely don't mean in looks), faster, stronger and fitter than Derry. Barry McGoldrick was on his knees (literally leaning on them) in the last 10 minutes. As were others. Fitness is a management issue. And why no 5th sub?

I genuinely think Derry have gone backwards fitness wise since last year if you look at how they came back strong against Kerry in the League Final and Monaghan in Clones. There are questions to be answered there.

Sad day all round.
Bring back Crozier ...!  

Derry came back strong in the league final against Kerry because Fergal Doc dragged the team along with him.  Lacking fitness is a very easy excuse for anybody to make.  Why was the fitness not questioned after the monaghan game?

Wasn't it John McCloskey responsible for Derry's fitness last year?  By all reports the players rated him, but Cassidy obviously wanted to get rid of as much of the crozier regime as possible, or maybe he was costing too much. 

Fitness isn't the only excuse - but it's a point worth addressing.
To say that Doc was the sole cause is not accurate. He got a great goal and was inspirational, but guys like McCusker stepped up, Muldoon turned the screw, SML came in and did a job etc. So in all it was a team effort.
Your point about the Monaghan game is fair - though how good Monaghan are we'll probably only see their next weekend out against Armagh.
As for the McCloskey thing, money is probably a bigger factor this year, as for whether he was rated or not I'm not sure.

Fair enough that fitness is worth addressing, and I agree about the other players stepping upto the plate in that league final, and its no coincidence that 3 of the four players you mentioned as stepping up did not start on sunday, a bigger reason for the manner of defeat than fitness IMO.  A Derry team with Muldoon, McCusker, Doherty all starting and the availibility of Brian Mullan would have been a completely different story for Tyrone.

But no point worrying about that now, its vital that we get these men back for the qualifiers.  In a way it will suit Derry again, because they will have been dismissed as contenders, and can now go about their business without the media hype and attention which they don't seem to handle well at all.

As for McCloskey, i never heard anything other than good reports about him last year, money could well have been the factor though if he's taken up a full time position with wasps now.

[Fuzzman]

Sorry if its already discussed but what did people think of the ref on Sunday.

I know he's not suppose to but he definitely seemed to favour the losing team with most of the 50/50 decisions but there were three incidents in particular which I couldn't believe.

1. The time in 2nd half when Stevie O looked like going to shoot on his left but then turned inside SML who clearly held him with one hand but alas no free.
2. In 2nd half was it Tommy and someone else was on the break and Tommy tried to pass but the Derry defender held his arm and so the pass fell short. Looked a blatant free. I think Tommy laiughed at the ref as not long left in it.
3. The time SON got injured, high ball in and as SON jumped to punch it back in play SML clearly drags him down to the ground by holding his arm.

Its as if Refs make exceptions for players that are stronger than others and so give the defender more leaway than others.

He was giving so many soft frees in the 1st half to both teams but I just thought in 2nd half he wanted to even it up a bit.

We rarely slag off the ref when we win the game but had Derry got a late goal or 3 it could have been fun.  

[JMohan]

Tyrone were cuter (and I definitely don't mean in looks), faster, stronger and fitter than Derry. Barry McGoldrick was on his knees (literally leaning on them) in the last 10 minutes. As were others. Fitness is a management issue. And why no 5th sub?

I genuinely think Derry have gone backwards fitness wise since last year if you look at how they came back strong against Kerry in the League Final and Monaghan in Clones. There are questions to be answered there.

Sad day all round.
Bring back Crozier ...!  

Derry came back strong in the league final against Kerry because Fergal Doc dragged the team along with him.  Lacking fitness is a very easy excuse for anybody to make.  Why was the fitness not questioned after the monaghan game?

Wasn't it John McCloskey responsible for Derry's fitness last year?  By all reports the players rated him, but Cassidy obviously wanted to get rid of as much of the crozier regime as possible, or maybe he was costing too much. 

Fitness isn't the only excuse - but it's a point worth addressing.
To say that Doc was the sole cause is not accurate. He got a great goal and was inspirational, but guys like McCusker stepped up, Muldoon turned the screw, SML came in and did a job etc. So in all it was a team effort.
Your point about the Monaghan game is fair - though how good Monaghan are we'll probably only see their next weekend out against Armagh.
As for the McCloskey thing, money is probably a bigger factor this year, as for whether he was rated or not I'm not sure.

Fair enough that fitness is worth addressing, and I agree about the other players stepping upto the plate in that league final, and its no coincidence that 3 of the four players you mentioned as stepping up did not start on sunday, a bigger reason for the manner of defeat than fitness IMO.  A Derry team with Muldoon, McCusker, Doherty all starting and the availibility of Brian Mullan would have been a completely different story for Tyrone.

But no point worrying about that now, its vital that we get these men back for the qualifiers.  In a way it will suit Derry again, because they will have been dismissed as contenders, and can now go about their business without the media hype and attention which they don't seem to handle well at all.

As for McCloskey, i never heard anything other than good reports about him last year, money could well have been the factor though if he's taken up a full time position with wasps now.

Well I don't know the ins and outs of it I just know McCloskey is going to Wasps as a 'skills' coach though - not as a fitness coach - so I'm not sure if he did much fitness work with Derry last year, anyway he also went for the managers job but didn't get it, didn't he?

I agree with all of the above, though I'm not as confident as you about the qualifiers ... The Derry record in the back door is abysmal to say the least.

I just raised the fitness thing as another question - but I agree McCusker, Muldoon & Doherty missing were factors - but the bigger question I have is over player selection like I said above ... Murphy, Brown, Lynn. I don't think I'm being unfair to suggest that most people would have known that half forward line and midfield wasn't going to compete with Tyrones, I don't see how Cassidy didn't.

[JMohan]

Sorry if its already discussed but what did people think of the ref on Sunday.

I know he's not suppose to but he definitely seemed to favour the losing team with most of the 50/50 decisions but there were three incidents in particular which I couldn't believe.

1. The time in 2nd half when Stevie O looked like going to shoot on his left but then turned inside SML who clearly held him with one hand but alas no free.
2. In 2nd half was it Tommy and someone else was on the break and Tommy tried to pass but the Derry defender held his arm and so the pass fell short. Looked a blatant free. I think Tommy laiughed at the ref as not long left in it.
3. The time SON got injured, high ball in and as SON jumped to punch it back in play SML clearly drags him down to the ground by holding his arm.

Its as if Refs make exceptions for players that are stronger than others and so give the defender more leaway than others.

He was giving so many soft frees in the 1st half to both teams but I just thought in 2nd half he wanted to even it up a bit.

We rarely slag off the ref when we win the game but had Derry got a late goal or 3 it could have been fun.  

The ref had no effect on the result.

But .... he is one of the worst bollix's I ever saw referee a game down through the years ... he's the fastest way to ruin a match.... the man averages a toot a minute without an ounce of cop-on.

I know the boys were joking about putting Dooher out to stud - but I'd have Pat 'It's just common sense' McEneany in the shed long before Dooher for the betterment of our national games.   

[toiletroller]

Ah get over yerself ye clown. We all accept that Joe was a bit of a bollix when he was at his kissin carryon, but thats all it was. He did it to the Derry fans, not the opposition and he did it every time he scored a goal and there was no malice or provocation intended. I'm surprised you were actually at a match to see him in person. Or was it televised?

Just on the Brolly thing, P Bradley in a huge interview in the Times on Sunday talked about how provbcation is important in the game, about how Brollys bro said to him in 96, if you get a chance kiss those xxxxxx and rub it into them,  and this was the crowd.... At least ricey keeps it on the field. 
[/quote]

Could you post a link to that article? Have been searching for it but no luck. Cheers

[JMohan]

Is it the one I posted to the end of the Monaghan/Derry thread?
[ http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12088.1335 ]?
Because I don't see him mentioning Brolly in it.

[Onion Bag]

To be honest i didnt see the game, was doing a bit of DIY and got held up, had to listen to it on the wireless,

was talking to a chap who said that Colm Cavanagh came on as Blood sub for Brian Dooher, think he threw his weight about a bit and maybe hit someone on the back of the head or neck well anyway what he was asking was, can he be sent off with a straight red? and if so would Dooher be allowed to come back on?

[rrhf]

Its called truly madly bradley - Paddy B actually talks frank and honest in it.  Not a bad article at all.  Cant post it.