Doire v Mhuineacháin 24/5/09

[Archie Mitchell]

I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.

Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls?? 

Where is this video evidence? If it was the BBC, why wasn't it shown to defend Mullan at the time. Even if he did'nt knee him in the ball's, he still kneed him and deserved his suspension.

It was previously unseen, I think Brolly said it was taken by Derry officials at the game - i didn't know they created their own video footage, but there you go - it seemingly shows that the knee was in the chest, I haven't seen it, but nobody has contradicted this claim and I can't see that Brolly and the Derry county board would lie about it (if verifiable evidence to the contrary exists).
He still kneed McManus and that's why the suspension wasn't appealed, just he severity of it - according to the rules (apparently) the punishment for striking with the knee is 4 weeks.

I haven't read through the whole thread but reading the last post and having watched the video again on youtube, how in the name of God can they say that yer man Mullan didn't knee the other lad in the balls?? He clearly did. That's one of the dirtiest incidents I've seen in a long time.

Did you read the bit where it says that video footage from another angle shows that he didn't knee anyone in the balls?? 

Where is this video evidence? If it was the BBC, why wasn't it shown to defend Mullan at the time. Even if he did'nt knee him in the ball's, he still kneed him and deserved his suspension.

Don't understand how they can say this, has to be bullshit. Or else yer man McManus is some actor because he genuinely looked hurt... 

Well a knee could hurt wherever it connects with, I'd love to see the footage too though.

I know Tyrone have a video man with them that video's all their games. I think it was clear from the normal coverage that it was a knee so I don't see why they thought they would suspend him for 8 weeks for kneeing in the balls and only 4 weeks for kneeing in the chest. It's still striking and shows how much of a joke the disciplinary committee are.

[GBXII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA  that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear. 

[Main Street]

Freeman appeal heard
18 June 2009

Central Appeals Committee

At a meeting of the Central Appeals Committee held in Croke Park last night, an appeal from Tommy Freeman (Monaghan) was heard.

The appeal as submitted by Monaghan was upheld. The Central Appeals Committee decided to refer the case back to the Central Hearings Committee for reprocessing.

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=113388

What the hell does this mean?

The appeal was successful. 

and hopefully another nail in the coffin of this selective one dimensional citation process.

Unless these citation panel guys look at all the game, from all the tv angles, they are unfit to press serious charges against a player, a process which puts the onus on the player to prove himself innocent or less guilty against false or exaggerated charges.

On the pitch, a ref spotting the Mullan incident would be entitled to dish out a straight  red card.
The RTE tv camera shot of Mullan does not show contact being made.
The video evidence was inconclusive for proving a category 2 offense of 8 weeks.

[JMohan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA  that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear. 

Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.

[Archie Mitchell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA  that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear. 

Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.

Regardless of where he kneed him, he still kneed him and deserved to get suspended for it. If you were kneed in the groin or the stomach would you not react in a similar way?

[Schkite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA  that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear. 

Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.

Dishonesty my eye, if he was kneed in the stomach it still wouldn't be pleasant would you not agree? Either way a knee is a dirty act and he deserves the original ban at least. McManus has never done a dishonest thing on the field in his life, he's not that type of fella. Getting a knee to the balls/stomach would hurt and that showed in his natural reaction. How did he intimate that he got a knee in the groin? What huge difference would there be if it was the stomach and how would the ref even notice? He reacted like he did because he was hurt, regardless of where the knee connected.

[JMohan]

I agree - he did wrong and should get punished - no arguing there.
What I argued was the actions of McManus.



Well you have a number of choices ...

1. Get up carry on, show no pain, not give him the satisfaction of thinking he affected you keeping focused on the game.
    1.a Return the compliment later with a good physical shoulder or tackle
2. Exact Retribution there and then and most probably get sent off
    2. a Exact Retribution later and again most probably get sent off
3. Roll on the ground and look to get the man punished
    3 a. Hold the appropriate part where contact was made.
    3 b. Hold another more serious part and try get him sent off for a worse offense.

Personally I'd always go for 1 or 1 a.

To me 3a is just showing your weakness and taking your eye off your role and immediate job
3b is just dishonesty to me.


The question is always - what is the most important thing that will help you win the game - it's always staying focused on winning.

[JMohan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4oJdShQHA  that should be the link to the 'original' footage. Agree that this is a bit of a joke, the reaction gives it away like, the Monaghan player is holding his balls!! And he definitely didn't knee him in the chest..that much is clear. 

Well it just goes to show you the dishonesty of McManus to try and get a man sent off by intimating that he was kneed in the groin.
He kneed him - in the stomach - not in the groin.

Dishonesty my eye, if he was kneed in the stomach it still wouldn't be pleasant would you not agree? Either way a knee is a dirty act and he deserves the original ban at least. McManus has never done a dishonest thing on the field in his life, he's not that type of fella. Getting a knee to the balls/stomach would hurt and that showed in his natural reaction. How did he intimate that he got a knee in the groin? What huge difference would there be if it was the stomach and how would the ref even notice? He reacted like he did because he was hurt, regardless of where the knee connected.

To try and get a man sent off for kneeing you in the balls when he kneed you in the stomach is dishonest, yes. I'd have more respect for him if he held his stomach. I'd have even more respect if he just got on with it.

As for how hard he was kneed - IF if was hard enough - he wouldn't have been able to think about holding his balls - he'd be gripping his stomach in agony. So he wasn't connected with that badly.

Get up and get on with it like a man.
Monaghan people are first to point the finger - you can't have it both ways - clap Dessie Moen for pulling the balls off one man down one end of the field and then praise McManus for rolling on the ground.
You're either playing by one set of rules or not.

[Schkite]

Have you seen this new footage yourself JMohan? Because otherwise you can't say where Mullen did in fact connect. And while you have a point about getting up and not showing weakness, if a player is hurt bad enough they can't be expected to hop straight back up again. If McManus was hit in the groin then clearly he would've needed a minute to recover! And sure even if it was the stomach he still would've been badly winded such was the knee that connected. It's not like he got a small slap and fell like a ton of bricks, which is more what I'd associate those choices with. You don't have much of a choice if you're hit hard enough.

[Schkite]

Who did Dessie pull the balls of? This is news to me, more footage has been discovered presumably?

[JMohan]

Have you seen this new footage yourself JMohan? Because otherwise you can't say where Mullen did in fact connect. And while you have a point about getting up and not showing weakness, if a player is hurt bad enough they can't be expected to hop straight back up again. If McManus was hit in the groin then clearly he would've needed a minute to recover! And sure even if it was the stomach he still would've been badly winded such was the knee that connected. It's not like he got a small slap and fell like a ton of bricks, which is more what I'd associate those choices with. You don't have much of a choice if you're hit hard enough.

I've always said from day one that the video showed he had not made groin contact.

Anyway - there's no argument - he's been shown now to have not been hit in the balls and he obviously did not get hit hard enough if he had time to think 'Oh I'll hold my balls and try and get him sent off here".
Like I said if he was hit in the stomach hard enough he'd never have been thinking anything other than about that.

[JMohan]

Who did Dessie pull the balls of? This is news to me, more footage has been discovered presumably?

Talk to some of the Derry full forward line - the other one favourite is talking about girlfriends and such and raking achilles ... but you boys are happy to ignore that.

[Archie Mitchell]

I don't understand how you can somehow blame McManus in this? He was the one that was kneed. Regardless of where it was at, it was still a knee and most likely hurt McManus, as it was in an area that would hurt if you got kneed there yourself.

You talk about him getting up and getting on with it like a man? What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle".

[JMohan]

I don't understand how you can somehow blame McManus in this? He was the one that was kneed. Regardless of where it was at, it was still a knee and most likely hurt McManus, as it was in an area that would hurt if you got kneed there yourself.

You talk about him getting up and getting on with it like a man? What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle".

Who's blaming McManus? Are you reading the posts or just mouthing off like Main Street? I'm saying he reacted wrong and dishonestly.
"What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle". ... So oh now it's the old cry baby boy school line - "Miss he did it first" so it's ok then is it?

[But for what it's worth - McKaigue was wrong too. Dooher does all the time and is wrong. O'Mahony did last year also and is still wrong also]

We're just following the soccer influence - dive, hold your face instead of your chest where contact was made and try and get the man sent off.

[Archie Mitchell]

I'm saying he reacted wrong and dishonestly.

Would this not somehow blame him for the subsequent suspension for Mullan if he reacted to get a reaction from the referee or the CCC?

"What about Chrissy McKaigue falling like a ton of bricks holding his face after a "tackle". ... So oh now it's the old cry baby boy school line - "Miss he did it first" so it's ok then is it?

You mentioned the fact that McManus reacted wrong and dishonestly, why not mention the fact that McKaigue did it as well? I was just pointing out a fact and didn't mean it in the way of "he did it first, so its ok for me to do it"

There is no call for this in the game and alot of players are guilty of it, but the fact still remains that McManus was kneed somewhere by Mullan, and was hurt by it, so how did he react wrong and dishonestly?