Where next for Law and Order in NI?

[Evil Genius]

That would be my fear too Tony, which would restart the "dirty war" and would lead to resentment in the Nationalist/Republican communities.

What benefit would it be to the British Intelligence Services/Army/Government to restart the "dirty war" if they could possibly avoid it? There are already two other wars on, in case you hadn't noticed, both of them potentially a hell of a sight more dangerous to the UK than little old NI.

[carribbear]

How long will it be before shady British security services take over the running of the Real and Continuity IRAs, in the same manner as they currently run the armed and tolerated unionist paramilitaries?

Am struggleing to get a handle on this comment.

Let's assume the following are fact.
A. The Brits run the unionist paramilitaries
B. The Brits take over the republican paramilitaries
C. The Brits set the two sides against each other


Why in the name of god would they do this?

Gnevin, this post has to be one of the most naive that I have read about on Irish politics on this board ever.

How so ? Tony is inferring than the British want to run some sort of war with the Unionist and Republicans as pawns and them in total Control. I can see no advantage in them doing this. Can you ?

I take it that you were too young to understand what went on before 1994.

[Gnevin]

How so ? Tony is inferring than the British want to run some sort of war with the Unionist and Republicans as pawns and them in total Control. I can see no advantage in them doing this. Can you ?

It means then that the Brits can act as if they are there to keep two factions apart. They can then tell the world that the two sides are fighting eachother and the Brits are actually trying to keep the peace. If the Brits are attacked it can be broadcast to the world that 'peace keeping Brit forces were attacked' rather than the truth which is 'occupying forces were attacked.'They have been doing this since the 70s.

We currently have peace or the nearest the North has had in decades . Why would want too Brits start a proxy war to attack the R/CIRA ?

[carribbear]

That would be my fear too Tony, which would restart the "dirty war" and would lead to resentment in the Nationalist/Republican communities.

What benefit would it be to the British Intelligence Services/Army/Government to restart the "dirty war" if they could possibly avoid it? There are already two other wars on, in case you hadn't noticed, both of them potentially a hell of a sight more dangerous to the UK than little old NI.

Could be as simple as someone with a grudge or some hun who hankers for the old days of carson.

[Gnevin]

How long will it be before shady British security services take over the running of the Real and Continuity IRAs, in the same manner as they currently run the armed and tolerated unionist paramilitaries?

Am struggleing to get a handle on this comment.

Let's assume the following are fact.
A. The Brits run the unionist paramilitaries
B. The Brits take over the republican paramilitaries
C. The Brits set the two sides against each other


Why in the name of god would they do this?

Gnevin, this post has to be one of the most naive that I have read about on Irish politics on this board ever.

How so ? Tony is inferring than the British want to run some sort of war with the Unionist and Republicans as pawns and them in total Control. I can see no advantage in them doing this. Can you ?

I take it that you were too young to understand what went on before 1994.

I take it your unable to explain the end goal of the Brits here or why the would want to start a war in the middle of retaliative peace. You can't blame the Brits for everything.

[Gnevin]

That would be my fear too Tony, which would restart the "dirty war" and would lead to resentment in the Nationalist/Republican communities.

What benefit would it be to the British Intelligence Services/Army/Government to restart the "dirty war" if they could possibly avoid it? There are already two other wars on, in case you hadn't noticed, both of them potentially a hell of a sight more dangerous to the UK than little old NI.

Could be as simple as someone with a grudge or some hun who hankers for the old days of carson.

So the R/CIRA are responsible for none of their actions it was the "hun" that made them do it . Pathetic.

[magpie seanie]

Some of the stuff you read here is at the same time hilarious and depressing.

[Evil Genius]

Under no circumstances should the British army be allowed back onto the  streets as someone who has suffered 2 beatings at the hands of these paragons of virtue I say they have no role in policing any society. Law and Order is the domain of an accountable police force. I have laughed this last 2 days at unionist and the Brit media trying to force SF into stating they want to see the BA back. Of course they do not no Irish Republican wants them back on the streets.
Can somebody give me one good news story that the SRR where involved with? Only one-I mean this is the crowd responsible for Brian Nelson-

Nobody is suggesting that the army be deployed back on the streets as a matter of routine, as happened during the Troubles. Rather, Orde has merely requested a very small number of SRR personnel to assist in electronic surveillance etc. Note that it is the SRR, not the SAS, which indicates that these operatives will not be used in interception duties. Rather, it suggests that they will be used to collect evidence, which the PSNI will use to make arrests, ideally before the event.

Otherwise, in the face of the current increased threat and in the absence of hard witness or forensic evidence, how else are the PSNI to gain the evidence necessary to convict the suspects whom they know to be involved?

And that being the case, where else can they find the necessary expertise to undertake this role?

Or do you think they should wait for the necessary 2/3/4? years (minimum) it would take to learn this expertise themselves? How many deaths will there be in the meantime?

It's easy for people to complain about what is being done, but rather harder to suggest what else might be done.

[carribbear]

That would be my fear too Tony, which would restart the "dirty war" and would lead to resentment in the Nationalist/Republican communities.

What benefit would it be to the British Intelligence Services/Army/Government to restart the "dirty war" if they could possibly avoid it? There are already two other wars on, in case you hadn't noticed, both of them potentially a hell of a sight more dangerous to the UK than little old NI.

Could be as simple as someone with a grudge or some hun who hankers for the old days of carson.

So the R/CIRA are responsible for none of their actions it was the "hun" that made them do it . Pathetic.

Those organisations are rotten with agents and touts, i'd be very surprised if the crown weren't aware of upcoming attacks.

[Evil Genius]

Er, they have been doing this for years. Proven fact, senior members of all the paramilitaries, unionist and republican were proven british agents.

So if the Security Services want to infiltrate the Dissidents in order to start up a new Dirty War, why are the Provos and (so-called) Loyalists, whom you claim they also "control", all now on ceasefire/disbanded etc?

You don't half post the most almighty shite, sometimes

[Zapatista]

I take it your unable to explain the end goal of the Brits here or why the would want to start a war in the middle of retaliative peace. You can't blame the Brits for everything.

It's hardly unprecedented.

We currently have peace or the nearest the North has had in decades . Why would want too Brits start a proxy war to attack the R/CIRA ?

Lots of reasons. When we say the Brits we are not only talking about the guys round a table in Downing St. Not all Brits want peace. The Brits are here and they want to be in control of everyone. They are an occupying force and are unwelcome, in order for them to stay they need a purpose and there is no more noble purpose for the Brits than to keep the peace between two fighting Irish tribes.

[Zapatista]

Some of the stuff you read here is at the same time hilarious and depressing.

Yeah, that Jimmy carson fella was hilarious alright

[Evil Genius]

It means then that the Brits can act as if they are there to keep two factions apart. They can then tell the world that the two sides are fighting each other and the Brits are actually trying to keep the peace. If the Brits are attacked it can be broadcast to the world that 'peace keeping Brit forces were attacked' rather than the truth which is 'occupying forces were attacked.'They have been doing this since the 70s.

"Occupying forces", is it? Do you mean by that those Sappers in Antrim, who had been there for 18 months, without anyone hardly even noticing? Or their Pizza-delivering "collaborators"? Or the Catholic cop murdered answering a call to a break-in?

In so far as there is a British "occupation" of Ireland, it is constituted by the majority presence of 1 million Britons in NI. And unless or until that changes (and it hasn't over the last 400 years, btw), then the whole world accepts that NI will remain British.

That being so, however, the British Government has absolutely no desire to have to deploy the army on the streets of NI if it can possibly avoid it. If nothing else, they are already being stretched to breaking point by Iraq, Afghanistan and the threat of Islamic terrorism at home. And that's before you start to add up the bill for a renewed military deployment in NI, in these recessionary times.

[heganboy]

2 arrests made over Craigavon murder an 18/17 year old depending on your source and a 37 year old

[Evil Genius]

How long will it be before shady British security services take over the running of the Real and Continuity IRAs, in the same manner as they currently run the armed and tolerated unionist paramilitaries?

"Take over the running of" in order to do what, exactly? Help them kill more Squaddies, Peelers and Pizza-delivering "Collaborators"?

The fact is, the security services already have more more on their hands than they can cope with, dealing with Islamic terrorists in GB etc. Virtually every week there is another trial of the latest lot. Indeed, one of the 7/7 bombers was known previously to police, but surveillance of him was withdrawn due to lack of resources.

Quite frankly, the last thing the intelligence services need now is to have to divert more operatives to NI.

Then they should go home and deal with there own problems.

And who's going to deal with the Dissident problem in NI, then? The Boy Scouts? How many more deaths must it take before you accept the need to take effective action to counter the Dissident threat? Or are you not actually too concerned by the deaths?