Lions 2009 thread

Tim Buzaglo · June 23, 2009, 10:20:38 PM

Quote from: Roger on June 23, 2009, 09:27:27 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 22, 2009, 02:11:44 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on June 21, 2009, 10:22:25 PM
Just watching the Churchill Cup Final - any chance they'll call up Neil Best for the second test!!

Is Best back after his gouging, always rated him for his abrasive approach?
He got banned at the start of October for 18 weeks. He was back in time some of the Ireland A in Feb / March but played a game instead for Northampton in the league.

I watched the Churchill cup - very interesting. The centre Mcfadden and the full back Jones look like they are very nearly ready for proper caps (both should be certain starters for their provinces next year - hopefully their paths wont be blocked. I've seen nothing really of these 2 before but were standouts in this tournament, expecially against England who had some bis name players on show. I hope Devon Toner pushes on and develops - it would be a shame to have a man of that size go to waste (he's even bigger than Bob Casey!).

Special praise also has to go to Neil Best - back to his bone crushing best. On form he's like Rocky Elsom minus the ball skills

Declan · June 24, 2009, 07:45:13 AM

The longer the tour has gone on the less interested I've been in the games. Last night's game was terrible - I know conditions were bad but the Lions lads knew it was their last game and they looked like they wanted to be back home. Think the Boks will hammer them on Saturday. Does anyone still think that in the professional age the tours are justified? I 'm of the opinion that they are just corporate money making machines and don't really serve any purpose.

Gnevin · June 24, 2009, 09:08:20 AM

Quote from: Declan on June 24, 2009, 07:45:13 AM
The longer the tour has gone on the less interested I've been in the games. Last night's game was terrible - I know conditions were bad but the Lions lads knew it was their last game and they looked like they wanted to be back home. Think the Boks will hammer them on Saturday. Does anyone still think that in the professional age the tours are justified? I 'm of the opinion that they are just corporate money making machines and don't really serve any purpose.

Did they ever serve a purpose?

Declan · June 24, 2009, 10:05:08 AM

I think in the old shamateur days I could see some justification as a "reward" for the Lions but now I can't see any reason for them at all.

magpie seanie · June 24, 2009, 11:59:16 AM

If the Lions pick their team correctly there's no way they should be hammered. This might be biased but O'Gara should start at out-half. He has earned his place and if he played the last day he wouldn't have missed the kicks Jones missed. Of course they'll target him but the lad has been targetted in every game he has played in his life. He will never wear a Lions shirt again and I think he'd produce a great display. He has a track record for doing the business when the chips are down.

Kearney deserves his place regardless of whether Byrne is fit. If Byrne is fit he would be in the mix for 11. Monye shouldn't tog out again after the first test. Fitzgerald and Shane Williams haven't done enough but if Byrne is out one will play. Agree that DOC or Shaw need to come in to second row and Martin Williams in at 7, even if it means Wallace dropping to the bench. Front row needs major surgery. Mears and Vickery way off it. The two best hookers available are not there. Options are limited so I'd agree to going with the all Welsh front row, at least they're used to playing together. Hayes has to come into the equation though for his work in the lineout.

If they get hammered in this match they should retire the Lions as a concept. Its a bit of a joke the cream of 4 nations getting hockeyed on successive tours.

DennistheMenace · June 24, 2009, 12:06:10 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 24, 2009, 11:59:16 AM
If the Lions pick their team correctly there's no way they should be hammered. This might be biased but O'Gara should start at out-half. He has earned his place and if he played the last day he wouldn't have missed the kicks Jones missed. Of course they'll target him but the lad has been targetted in every game he has played in his life. He will never wear a Lions shirt again and I think he'd produce a great display. He has a track record for doing the business when the chips are down.

Kearney deserves his place regardless of whether Byrne is fit. If Byrne is fit he would be in the mix for 11. Monye shouldn't tog out again after the first test. Fitzgerald and Shane Williams haven't done enough but if Byrne is out one will play. Agree that DOC or Shaw need to come in to second row and Martin Williams in at 7, even if it means Wallace dropping to the bench. Front row needs major surgery. Mears and Vickery way off it. The two best hookers available are not there. Options are limited so I'd agree to going with the all Welsh front row, at least they're used to playing together. Hayes has to come into the equation though for his work in the lineout.

If they get hammered in this match they should retire the Lions as a concept. Its a bit of a joke the cream of 4 nations getting hockeyed on successive tours.

Don't agree, they are playing the best team in the world in the home turf and the current WC champions, its not as easy as some people make out especially considering it's like an all-star team which generally in sports find it hard to gel like a proper team like SA or NZ.

Dinny Breen · June 24, 2009, 12:22:46 PM

QuoteThe longer the tour has gone on the less interested I've been in the games. Last night's game was terrible - I know conditions were bad but the Lions lads knew it was their last game and they looked like they wanted to be back home. Think the Boks will hammer them on Saturday. Does anyone still think that in the professional age the tours are justified? I 'm of the opinion that they are just corporate money making machines and don't really serve any purpose.

I'd agree with that which is even though i tend to contribute a lot to the rugby threads I just can't get excited anymore by the Lions and the Sky Hyperbole.

magpie seanie · June 24, 2009, 01:33:54 PM

Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 24, 2009, 12:06:10 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 24, 2009, 11:59:16 AM
If the Lions pick their team correctly there's no way they should be hammered. This might be biased but O'Gara should start at out-half. He has earned his place and if he played the last day he wouldn't have missed the kicks Jones missed. Of course they'll target him but the lad has been targetted in every game he has played in his life. He will never wear a Lions shirt again and I think he'd produce a great display. He has a track record for doing the business when the chips are down.

Kearney deserves his place regardless of whether Byrne is fit. If Byrne is fit he would be in the mix for 11. Monye shouldn't tog out again after the first test. Fitzgerald and Shane Williams haven't done enough but if Byrne is out one will play. Agree that DOC or Shaw need to come in to second row and Martin Williams in at 7, even if it means Wallace dropping to the bench. Front row needs major surgery. Mears and Vickery way off it. The two best hookers available are not there. Options are limited so I'd agree to going with the all Welsh front row, at least they're used to playing together. Hayes has to come into the equation though for his work in the lineout.

If they get hammered in this match they should retire the Lions as a concept. Its a bit of a joke the cream of 4 nations getting hockeyed on successive tours.

Don't agree, they are playing the best team in the world in the home turf and the current WC champions, its not as easy as some people make out especially considering it's like an all-star team which generally in sports find it hard to gel like a proper team like SA or NZ.

We'll have to agree to disagree. While an international team might be better acquainted with each other they don't exactly play together week in, week out either. On top of that the Lions have been together for a long time now so the comparison with an all-star team is not accurate. The very least the Lions should be is competitive, not getting brushed aside with ease.

screenexile · June 24, 2009, 05:00:21 PM

Ah now they were hardly brushed aside with ease seanie. Yes they struggled in the first half but they took S.A. to the cleaners 2nd half and another 5 minutes of that game would have seen a Lions victory.

This Test on Saturday I think will not be a tale of 2 halves but will be a lot more even than last week. Lions will scrummage better and compete more in the lineout while the S.A. defence will not concede as many line breaks as it did last weekend. I'm actually excited about this one as it really could go either way.

As for retiring it as a concept I don't really agree with it. The Lions has been going for the best part of a century and the tradition and honour that goes with something like that has been built up over a lot of time. It's not like the Compromised Rules which was an experiment really and can be disbanded fairly easily. Along with the tradition the Lions is very high profile and the hype machine helps to pull youngsters into the game. Not to mention the numerous charity and community events that go with a Lions tour that can have quite an effect.

I for one enjoy it and if players are happy enough to keep wanting to play for the Lions and enjoy these tours then more power to them. I hope they win on Sunday as well!

Capt Pat · June 24, 2009, 06:43:25 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 24, 2009, 01:33:54 PM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 24, 2009, 12:06:10 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 24, 2009, 11:59:16 AM
If the Lions pick their team correctly there's no way they should be hammered. This might be biased but O'Gara should start at out-half. He has earned his place and if he played the last day he wouldn't have missed the kicks Jones missed. Of course they'll target him but the lad has been targetted in every game he has played in his life. He will never wear a Lions shirt again and I think he'd produce a great display. He has a track record for doing the business when the chips are down.

Kearney deserves his place regardless of whether Byrne is fit. If Byrne is fit he would be in the mix for 11. Monye shouldn't tog out again after the first test. Fitzgerald and Shane Williams haven't done enough but if Byrne is out one will play. Agree that DOC or Shaw need to come in to second row and Martin Williams in at 7, even if it means Wallace dropping to the bench. Front row needs major surgery. Mears and Vickery way off it. The two best hookers available are not there. Options are limited so I'd agree to going with the all Welsh front row, at least they're used to playing together. Hayes has to come into the equation though for his work in the lineout.

If they get hammered in this match they should retire the Lions as a concept. Its a bit of a joke the cream of 4 nations getting hockeyed on successive tours.

Don't agree, they are playing the best team in the world in the home turf and the current WC champions, its not as easy as some people make out especially considering it's like an all-star team which generally in sports find it hard to gel like a proper team like SA or NZ.

We'll have to agree to disagree. While an international team might be better acquainted with each other they don't exactly play together week in, week out either. On top of that the Lions have been together for a long time now so the comparison with an all-star team is not accurate. The very least the Lions should be is competitive, not getting brushed aside with ease.

I think the international teams train together quite a during the 6 nations they are in campand during the November international and summer tours as well as training in the off season. They are quite like a club team.

Dinny Breen · June 25, 2009, 12:47:17 PM

Lions team for the 2nd test

15. Rob Kearney (Leinster / Ireland)
14. Tommy Bowe (Ospreys / Ireland)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster / Ireland)
12. Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues / Wales)
11. Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster / Ireland)
10. Stephen Jones (Scarlets / Wales)
9. Mike Phillips (Ospreys / Wales)

8. Jamie Heaslip (Leinster / Ireland)
7. David Wallace (Munster / Ireland)
6. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers / England)
5. Paul O'Connell (Munster / Ireland) Captain
4. Simon Shaw (London Wasps / England)
3. Adam Jones (Ospreys / Wales)
2. Matthew Rees (Scarlets / Wales)
1. Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues/Wales)

Replacements

16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh / Scotland)
17. Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks /England)
18. Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys / Wales)
19. Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
20. Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers/England)
21. Ronan O'Gara (Munster/Ireland)
22. Shane Williams (Ospreys / Wales)

DennistheMenace · June 25, 2009, 12:52:46 PM

Vickery and Moyne got the chop from the squad completely.

Good to see Fitzgerald get the nod, strong pack.

ildanach · June 25, 2009, 01:26:00 PM

good pack but o callaghan is unlucky to get dropped. he had a solid game on tuesday.

Donnellys Hollow · June 25, 2009, 01:32:42 PM

Lee Mears also out of the 22.

Can't have too many complaints with that team. Good to see that the selection is based on form rather than reputations.

Hard to believe that there'll be an all Welsh front row lining out in one of the tests though. If you'd have compared the four front rows during the 6N, you'd probably say that the Welsh three were the weakest. Jenkins is a fine prop and in fairness to both Rees and Adam Jones, they both did well when introduced last week.

magpie seanie · June 25, 2009, 01:47:17 PM

Not too far off what I thought it should be and a much better looking team than last week. Hopefully the horse hasn't bolted. Have 7 Irish men ever started a Lions test before?