The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[corn02]

Humour me....

[thejuice]

Send 5ive times a PM, he has a couple of season tickets and if he or his nephews are not using them that weekend he may be able to accomodate you.

Is 5times still on here, or did he get the boot from the mods. Might get him a fancard, although it'll never arrive on time. just have to get him something else as well.

[under the bar]

A local paper in Liverpool yesterday had it that Jurgen Klinsman was being lined up..

You might as well pick Joe Kernan as replacement as you get twice the fatness for your money plus a ready made training camp at Joe's villa in La Manga!!

[GalwayBayBoy]

Match ratings from the Guardian today for those interested.

Monday December 17, 2007
The Guardian


Reina - 6 - The goalkeeper must feel his defenders badly let him down at the decisive moment.

Arbeloa - 6 - There were not many occasions when Ryan Giggs eluded him, although needs to improve his distribution.

Hyppia - 6 - He can look vulnerable but, aerially at least, he was never going to be troubled by Carlos Tevez and Wayne Rooney.

Carragher - 7 - His contest with Wayne Rooney was one of the more intriguing sideshows and he mostly had the better of his opponent.

Riise - 7 - The Norwegian acquitted himself admirably and was among the home side's better players.

Benayoun - 5 - This was not a day when any of the wide players excelled and Benayoun was a peripheral figure at times.

Gerrard - 7 - Probably Liverpool's best player, although unable to dictate the game in the fashion that he would have liked.

Mascherano - 7 - Argentinian did his best to add some quality to the midfield battle and made a number of impressive interceptions.

Kewell - 5 - For spells in the first half he was the worst player on the pitch. Improved slightly thereafter but contributed little.

Torres - 5 - One of his least effective displays since joining the club although he could cite a lack of service.

Kuyt - 5 - A trier, but is he really a striker to win the league? The reluctance to play Peter Crouch continues to mystify.

Substitutes

Babel (for Kewell, 65)

Aurelio (for Riise, 80)

Crouch (for Kuyt, 73)

Not used Itandje, Lucas

Referee M Halsey

Van der Sar - 5 - Blundering coming off his line nearly cost United twice. Looked unusually nervous but was well protected

Brown - 6 - Has been impressive in Gary Neville's absence but lacks finesse supplementing Cristiano Ronaldo.

Ferdinand - 8 - There is a myth that he dislikes these fast, frenetic matches. But his obduracy was a major factor here.

Vidic - 7 - Not as impressive as his partner in central defence, but another robust display and was seldom troubled.

Evra - 7 - Probably United's best player this season, but it is disappointing to see him trying to win cheap free-kicks.

Ronaldo - 6 - It is a paradox of Ronaldo's brilliance that he rarely illuminates these top-of-the-table encounters

Hargreaves - 8 - His harrying style makes him ideally suited to these kind of games - quick to the ball, strong in the tackle and self-assured

Anderson - 7 - The teenager refused to wilt when the heat of the battle was dangerously close to intolerable.

Giggs - 6 - Flickered sporadically but, overall, little impact - even if it was a neatly worked corner that led to the goal.

Rooney - 6 - The former Everton player had a glorious chance to silence the crowd but squandered his solitary chance.

Tevez - 7 - Might have been let down by the number of high balls. Eager to be involved and, ultimately, the match-winner.

Substitutes

Carrick (for Tevez, 83) O'Shea (for Anderson, 90)

Not used Kuszczak, Saha, Fletcher

[Norf Tyrone]

I thought Gerard played well but was employed too deep, too often. I thought that Benitez should've pushed him up to hassle and occupy Hargeaves and Anderson.

[corn02]

Juice PM sent.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Tompkins on the defeat.

Before this game I promised myself and others that I would not get carried away by the result and write something distorted by either victory or defeat. So in the face of a narrow defeat, I'm doing as promised.
paul tomkins


I wrote: "...Whatever happens, it's just one game. A very important game, which will set some kind of marker and invoke a lot of passion and pride, but not a cup final, and not a title decider. And some things in football are not fundamentally changed by the result of one game in the first half of the season."

I never, ever have a good feeling when we play Manchester United. And with a crucial European away game preceding this encounter while United rested their team, my hopes weren't exactly strengthened. There was five days between the matches, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been, but clearly it wasn't the ideal preparation either. But that's football life, and you have to live with it.

Zonal marking was blamed for the goal, in typical and predictable fashion, but United's man-marking at set-pieces was far more farcical. The difference was arguably the bounce of the ball and the rub of the green. (And of course, Chelsea's set-piece man-marking against Arsenal was a joke.)

However, the one weakness with zonal marking (and every system has a weakness) is that anything done with real invention can cause uncertainty on the second phase of play. Liverpool were set up perfectly for the ball into the box, as they always are, but were slow in reacting to the pull-back outside the box. To make matters worse, Rooney's shot was going wide, but also straight at Carlos Tevez.

It seems that it doesn't matter how well Liverpool play in this fixture, it seems will not be the Reds' day.

A lot of it is making your own luck, and United are certainly good enough to do that, but where they find that extra 20% of good fortune in these games I'll never know. United somehow cleared two efforts off the line, and scraped a late first-half goal with their first effort of the match.

Liverpool were progressing nicely before the last two league games, but it remains the same story when it comes to meeting the top English teams, and United in particular.

Liverpool simply have to score the first goal against United soon, because every time Ferguson's men either earn it or steal it, the challenge becomes that much harder. The one time the Reds did just this was in the FA Cup; and they won.

But this defeat does not change what has been a very good first half of the season in the league, even if there remain areas for improvement. The aim now is to get a victory or two at places like Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Emirates Stadium.

With Torres' pace in the side, not to mention the emerging Ryan Babel, it's much more likely than in recent seasons. This is a crucial point: it's only really now that this team can do what all the top teams can, namely counter-attack effectively. So there are legitimate grounds for optimism.

I never get too upset when Liverpool play fairly well and lose against the run of play. It wasn't vintage in terms of free-flowing football, but once United scored it was never going to be easy carving out chances. The Reds cannot be faulted for effort, and for looking for a way through –– the players kept hammering away, looking to keep the tempo high and the pressure on, but passes had to be millimetre perfect to find a way through United's massed ranks; while dribbling with the ball often resulted in beating the first man but then getting smothered out by the second and/or third.

And unfortunately, the final ball wasn't good enough on many occasions, while the shots, when space was created, were a little hurried or wayward. But it says a lot about the balance of the game when United's best players were their central defensive pairing. Their football was certainly no better than the Reds', but of course, they had the space to pass and run into; that's the beauty of the counter-attack. Even then, they rarely worried the Reds.

The United goal meant there was then zero space for Torres to run into. The Spaniard looked a little leggy after all his recent outings, and his goal touch deserted him with a close-range header. The sharpness in the final third was just a little lacking from all Liverpool players, but of course, had either of those two chances cleared off the line had a fraction more pace on them, everyone gets a big pep-up from taking the lead.

Crucially, I also feel that this is the strongest United side since 1999, and their best squad perhaps in all the time Ferguson has been there. I don't enjoy saying that, but I feel it's true all the same. He still has some of the important elements in place from the '90s, and he bought Ronaldo, Rooney, Ferdinand and the underrated Saha before Benítez was even at Liverpool. And this summer United spent bigger in net terms than Liverpool to reinforce their title-winning side, which was already more expensively assembled.

I've said it over the years, but for me the crucial time was between 2002 and 2004, when Ferguson was strengthening with the real aforementioned quality, and Houllier (who had previously bought fairly well) got it horribly wrong. Looking back, that was always going to be a hard point to recover from. I think Benítez has bought at least as well as Ferguson since 2004, but those two preceding years set the Reds back a long way. Arsene Wenger also made some of his best signings, like Fabregas, Clichy, Van Persie and Toure in those years.

If Benítez had inherited players like Ronaldo and Rooney instead of Cheyrou, Diouf and Diao, it could, and almost certainly would, have been so different. And while Rooney was never a realistic target, due to the fee and his Evertonian roots, Anelka, who could have been a Liverpool player full-time, is far, far closer to him than Diouf ever was.

And of course, Liverpool could do nothing to stop losing Michael Owen in the summer of 2004, and it's only now, in 2007, that Rafa has been able to ally pace to reliable finishing ability, something that is so important to have in at least one striker., but also so costly Meanwhile, one of Houllier's few good signings between 2002-2004, Harry Kewell, is only now rebuilding his career after three years of injury woe. He's looking fit, but there's more sharpness to come.

So Liverpool are playing catch-up, and to my mind, are catching up. It's just never an overnight process, and one made more difficult by the confidence boost United had last year, that helped them increase their belief, as well as the good players they also added in the summer. It took Benítez until this summer to be able to buy a £15m+ player, but Ferguson's squad is full of them: Rooney, Hargreaves, Carrick, Ferdinand, Anderson, Nani, and in time, Tevez. And while Cristiano Ronaldo, at £13m, is not in that list, Benítez has only signed one single player who cost more than the Portuguese winger.

Think about this: once United had signed most of those top-class players back in 2003 and 2004, it took two-to-three years for the blend to strike gold.

The progress of that team was very steady, but almost imperceptible at times. In 2005 and 2006, United looked a long way away from a title-winning side. But it clicked into place last season, without many new additions, and I can honestly see Liverpool getting closer to such a point. And I think that most Liverpool fans, in moments of quiet reflection once the sting of the United result has worn off, will feel the same.

This Liverpool team is in essence a work in progress from 2005 onwards; so started after Ferguson began building his current side. Only Xabi Alonso predates that as a Benítez signing. And while a nucleus of inherited names remain, players like Alonso, Torres, Reina, Babel, Agger, Mascherano, Lucas, Benayoun, Kuyt, Arbeloa and Crouch are just some of those the manager has looked to in order to add new elements or dimensions. And for the most part, that's been the case.

[Goats Do Shave]

as if by magic

Following press speculation on Saturday morning concerning Liverpool's new stadium in Stanley Park, Rick Parry today said: 'We remain absolutely committed to the building of a new stadium which will improve on the original design'
Chief Executive Rick Parry told liverpoolfc.tv: "We remain absolutely committed to the building of a new stadium which will improve on the original design inherited by Tom Hicks and George Gillett when they came into the club.

"It will have a capacity of around 70,000, be higher quality and have a substantially increased Kop which will form the centrepiece of the new plans.

"Ever since the original designs were unveiled, we have been continuously revising and refining with the intention of delivering the best possible solution to our future needs.

"The situation in the credit markets has not affected our design, programme, or implementation of building our new stadium. The priority has always been to build a winning team on the pitch and everything else we do is geared towards that."

this wasnt brought to you by carrier pigeons flying south..

Lies...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7148782.stm

[SeanSouth]

Once again with Tompkins the glass is always half full.......

[J70]

There's nothing wrong with bringing a bit of optimism and perspective to the debate in the midst of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that accompanies every setback.

Is there anything you specifically disagree with, or do you just not like his tone?

[GalwayBayBoy]

I do think Tompkins is often a bit too upbeat about everything although I thought that was one of his more balanced articles.

We expect to challenge for league titles even though our spending power is simply not in the same league as Man U or Chelsea's. Wenger is managing a challenge at Arsenal (even though they themselves haven't won a trophy for 3 years) but he's had 10 years at the club and been allowed to invest big money on great young players and been given the time to allow them to emerge.

[SeanSouth]

There's nothing wrong with bringing a bit of optimism and perspective to the debate in the midst of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that accompanies every setback.

Is there anything you specifically disagree with, or do you just not like his tone?

Nothing specific, i just think we have to remember he is writing for the official Liverpool website and so any criticism be it constructive or otherwise will be minimal or he will be out of a job sharpish.

[GalwayBayBoy]

There's nothing wrong with bringing a bit of optimism and perspective to the debate in the midst of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that accompanies every setback.

Is there anything you specifically disagree with, or do you just not like his tone?

Nothing specific, i just think we have to remember he is writing for the official Liverpool website and so any criticism be it constructive or otherwise will be minimal or he will be out of a job sharpish.

In fairness his articles were pretty much along the same lines even before he started writing for the official website.

[An Fear Rua]

as if by magic

Following press speculation on Saturday morning concerning Liverpool's new stadium in Stanley Park, Rick Parry today said: 'We remain absolutely committed to the building of a new stadium which will improve on the original design'
Chief Executive Rick Parry told liverpoolfc.tv: "We remain absolutely committed to the building of a new stadium which will improve on the original design inherited by Tom Hicks and George Gillett when they came into the club.

"It will have a capacity of around 70,000, be higher quality and have a substantially increased Kop which will form the centrepiece of the new plans.

"Ever since the original designs were unveiled, we have been continuously revising and refining with the intention of delivering the best possible solution to our future needs.

"The situation in the credit markets has not affected our design, programme, or implementation of building our new stadium. The priority has always been to build a winning team on the pitch and everything else we do is geared towards that."

this wasnt brought to you by carrier pigeons flying south..

Lies...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7148782.stm

They cant get the funding in the states due to the dollars weakness, plus the fact they are mortgaged up to the hilt just like Utd and the Glazers. They are back to square one design wise, and It wouldnt surprise me to see it built at less than 70k with the foundations/planning in place to extend it in the future, when they have leeched abit more money from everyone and/or the dollar picks up.

[An Fear Rua]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7149636.stm

Liverpool deny transfer ban claim

Liverpool chief executive Rick Parry has dismissed claims boss Rafael Benitez has been told he cannot do any transfer deals in January.

It was reported Liverpool's American co-owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks had placed Benitez under a transfer embargo on moves in and out of Anfield.

But Parry told BBC Sport: "I can say that this is absolute rubbish."

Liverpool, however, are likely to wait until the summer to complete a proposed £17m move for Javier Mascherano.


Benitez met Hicks and Gillett after Sunday's defeat against Manchester United at Anfield in a bid to settle recent differences over transfer policy.

The meeting was described as "amicable" - although BBC Sport understands the American duo made it clear to Benitez that any further debate on club policy must not be made public.

Benitez remains confident of completing the purchase of Argentine midfield man Mascherano at the end of the season, while he is also hoping to complete two free transfer Bosman deals when the transfer window opens next month.

Peter Crouch and Momo Sissoko have been linked with moves away from Liverpool, while Benitez had also been hopeful of concluding a deal for AC Milan defender Kakha Kaladze.

The Spanish coach made a public attack on the club's hierarchy when he was told to concentrate on coaching rather than transfer business until they arrived back in England for the Manchester United game.

It was a stance that brought a stinging public rebuke from Hicks, who ordered Benitez to "quit talking".

Benitez is now unlikely to jeopardise his position further with any renewed criticism of Hicks and Gillett after a meeting described by one Anfield insider as "surprisingly low-key".

The manager was pleased with the meeting, saying: "We needed to clarify the situation and it was a very positive meeting.

"The conversation was very fluid because we were face to face, whereas it's more difficult over the phone or by e-mail.

"My English isn't always the best but having the chance to talk to them slowly and with time allowed us to analyse small problems. Now we can move forward."


Someone is rocking the boat somewhere, and leaking these stories out....
Thing is If Hicks and Gillette think that spending 17m on Masceran , a player they already have in their team is going to satisfy Benitez or the fans , they are a bit off the train of thought are they not.? If thats all the money he gets, then the squad is already complete for the year