Ogra Sinn Fein and their Commemoration at Narrow Water

[Donagh]

By all means do if you really want to, but nobody built a memorial to people who sniff their own shite.

Nobody had a "commemoration" at Narrow Water either.

[Evil Genius]

By all means do if you really want to, but nobody built a memorial to people who sniff their own shite.

Isn't that what the Dromore Hunger Strike Memorial is? 

[Doogie Browser]

That was the blanket men EG not the Hunger Strikers, poor attempt again.

[thejuice]

Fair enough, but I didnt feel the possible removal of the Dromore Memorial warrented its own thread and since this thread is or was originally about people commemorating(even if they didnt) events from the Troubles. Anyway I dont see why your so up in arms over me including it here.

[Donagh]

Fair enough, but I didnt feel the possible removal of the Dromore Memorial warrented its own thread and since this thread is or was originally about people commemorating(even if they didnt) events from the Troubles. Anyway I dont see why your so up in arms over me including it here.

Not up in arms, I just didn't get the link. On the one hand we have some unionists looking for an excuse to get offended over a bunch of kids associated to SF going on a history tour and other the other we have some unionists getting offended by a memorial to a local MP erected by persons unknown. Actually I think I get it now... unionist intolerance... apologies.

[Main Street]

type as slowly as you like as it doesnt seem to help you with your lack of information and knowledge, merely delay it.

I would think that your prev labelling the GAA as a political organisation (GAA are SF in football boots) then now turning around and saying the above in bold is a complete U-turn.
you can now try to rectify this by bringing in the conservative party etc etc but you are not fooling anyone here.
Its not that I dont agree, its not even that I dont see any difference (on a point that you are now making and was not your original point/slant).
the truth is that no matter how you like to try to dress it up, the GAA are not a political organisation, political decisions or what people can 'term' as political decisions are only made to the benefit of unionists/loyalists - opening of Croke park and the changing of rule 21 to allow ruc/brit army terrorists play gaelic games  !
But please back up with what you say - ie the GAA making political decisions - give us a link and prove it....

otherwise take your loss graciously like a man and dont be coming back with child like whinging replies of no substance and trying to change 'what you have said'!

I don't think Myles indicated that the GAA is a political organisation, rather it reads to me that he regards it as a organisation (sports/culture) that readily represents Sinn Fein political/republican thought, or at the behest of Sinn Fein.
He did not deny this when he replied to me.

Again the main point is not his misinformed opinions but the terminology used in arguments, even the type of Sinn Fein/GAA terminology, the very arguments themselves, possibly even the selection of his username. All those elements have raised the live suspicions that Myles has purposely misrepresented himself while presenting Unionist type magnafying glass criticism of the GAA.

[lynchbhoy]

type as slowly as you like as it doesnt seem to help you with your lack of information and knowledge, merely delay it.

I would think that your prev labelling the GAA as a political organisation (GAA are SF in football boots) then now turning around and saying the above in bold is a complete U-turn.
you can now try to rectify this by bringing in the conservative party etc etc but you are not fooling anyone here.
Its not that I dont agree, its not even that I dont see any difference (on a point that you are now making and was not your original point/slant).
the truth is that no matter how you like to try to dress it up, the GAA are not a political organisation, political decisions or what people can 'term' as political decisions are only made to the benefit of unionists/loyalists - opening of Croke park and the changing of rule 21 to allow ruc/brit army terrorists play gaelic games  !
But please back up with what you say - ie the GAA making political decisions - give us a link and prove it....

otherwise take your loss graciously like a man and dont be coming back with child like whinging replies of no substance and trying to change 'what you have said'!

I don't think Myles indicated that the GAA is a political organisation, rather it reads to me that he regards it as a organisation (sports/culture) that readily represents Sinn Fein political/republican thought, or at the behest of Sinn Fein.
He did not deny this when he replied to me.

Again the main point is not his misinformed opinions but the terminology used in arguments, even the type of Sinn Fein/GAA terminology, the very arguments themselves, possibly even the selection of his username. All those elements have raised the live suspicions that Myles has purposely misrepresented himself while presenting Unionist type magnafying glass criticism of the GAA.

The GAA needs to recognise this. If it doesn't want to recognise this, fine. But it should then stop pedalling the 'we want to reach out to unionists' crap and acknowledge that, in the north of Ireland at least, it is basically Sinn Fein in football boots.

I dont buy that Main Street, we know that all sporting bodies are made up of people that support one political party or another.
the assertion was indicating that the GAA were more than that, which means  a political organisation.
There were enough replies from myles missing out the opportunity to put the record straight if we were incorrect in our interpretation.
I think from the tone and context of his posts and the argument in general that this is what was meant.

its also the line of reasoning of his alter ego on this board, sentiments that have been frequently expressed before.
These same arguments and how they are put across are how its easy to identfy who it is, some spotted it long before me I have to admit.
eg GAA are a political org
GAA should drop their 'we want to reach out to unionsts'
citing and fixation on the 'Gaa rules/rulebook'
preoccupied with the hunger strikers
etc

ring any bells ?

[Evil Genius]

its also the line of reasoning of his [Myles Na G's] alter ego on this board, sentiments that have been frequently expressed before.
These same arguments and how they are put across are how its easy to identfy who it is, some spotted it long before me I have to admit.
eg GAA are a political org
GAA should drop their 'we want to reach out to unionsts'
citing and fixation on the 'Gaa rules/rulebook'
preoccupied with the hunger strikers
etc

ring any bells ?

What exactly do you mean by (his) "alter ago"? What is it you have now "spotted"? What "bells" are ringing?

[Main Street]

Lynchboy has not just "now" spotted anything.

Read the appropriate posts in the thread.

[Evil Genius]

Lynchboy has not just "now" spotted anything.

Read the appropriate posts in the thread.

I have done. What exactly is it that you/he are saying? 

[Myles Na G.]

No, that comment is not me stating that the GAA is a political organisation. If I'd wanted to state that, I would've used words like...oh, I dunno... 'the GAA is a political organisation' or some such. I believe there is a political element to some of the decisions the GAA as an organisation has taken, together with some of the decisions it has not taken.

I took issue with Lynchbhoy's misquote because I think it goes on far too often on this board (and you yourself have been guilty of it). People make statements that aren't based on what someone has posted, but rather on what suits their own particular argument at the time. I think it's a dishonest way of conducting a debate.

Myles, not sure what the bit in bold is about, care to explain??

Also, thanks for clarfying what the comment did not mean, care to advise what you meant by it?

Going from the GAA is "basically Sinn fein in football boots" to "I believe there is a political element to some of the decisions the GAA as an organisation has taken, together with some of the decisions it has not taken" is quite a step down wouldnt you think?
The two statements can hardly co-exist as your opinion of them, its either one or the other, which is it?

Myles, if you stood by your "football boots" comment I would at least respect that you stick to your opinion of them, while of course disagreeing with your opinion.
But the subsequesnt flip flapping around trying to pretend you meant something other than the obvious is
quite amusing. I respect your right to have any opinion on the GAA you want, but at least have one opinion and stick to it, or if you change your opinion, admit to changing it!

You misrepresented me with the accusation that I played up my Catholic / nationalist background. This was particularly poor form on your part, as you were one of the posters who asked me a direct question about my background. You also started a general discussion amongst other posters on the subject. As for the football boots quote, go back and read the whole sentence again. Start with the word 'if'.

[Main Street]

Football boots?

Question
Main Street  - "Why would M naG he be a member of a club of a sport he reckons to be an image of the despised Sinn Fein?"
Answer
Myles naG     "I was a pre teenager. I didn't really have political opinions then"

Insinuating, that I, Myles naG have grown up , have political opinions and  I would not be a member of the GAA because it is a mirror image of Sinn Fein.

Does Myles wish to retract, revise , u-turn  or continue go on a trip around the Red Cow spinning the conditional on top of his nose?

[Lar Naparka]

The scenario in the north of Ireland is such that it will take mindsets to change , that gestures etc wont ever affect
eg - if you changed all the GAA clubs names to meaningless nicknames like 'eagles, bulls, rhinos ' etc do you think that would alter unionist/loyalist mindsets towards the GAA?

I dont believe so.

But is the Union Jack and GSTQ not two of the big sticks used to beat the IFA with? Do many Nationalists not have major issues with these symbols, or do such Nationalists just need to change their mindset in relation to these symbols/gestures.

Sure in time everything will be ok

aha - its 'circle the wagons time again' here comes the cavalry !

I've amended my signature to save you having to type that every time you respond to one of my posts

Fair play, Chris, you were on the ball this morning. 
But now that the wagons are circled and the cavalry appear to be here in force, I wonder if some of you could stop circling about and dismount for a minute; I'd like to pose a question or two and I'd be interested in your replies.
Indeed, I'd be interested in the opinions of anyone who is following this spat, especially someone who comes from a Unionist perspective.

Firstly, I tend to concur with lynchboy's opinions here:

The scenario in the north of Ireland is such that it will take mindsets to change , that gestures etc wont ever affect
eg - if you changed all the GAA clubs names to meaningless nicknames like 'eagles, bulls, rhinos ' etc do you think that would alter unionist/loyalist mindsets towards the GAA?

I wonder if many, or any, in the Unionist community pay enough attention to what happens within the GAA to pay any attention to the name of any particular club.
Would changing the name of the Kevin Lynch club in Dungiven to, say, Eagle Rovers persuade any of the encircling cavalry to dismount and attempt some form of dialogue with those behind the wagon line?
I don't think, that even if the GAA was somehow able to insist on the alteration of club's names, that this move would meet with widespread appreciation from 'themmuns' as EG is wont to call them.
I'd really feel that there are two many cultural and historical barriers to be surmounted before GAA games could be regarded as all-inclusive in the North. If any problems with clubs' names could be resolved, others would inevitably arise.
But, that's only what I think; I'd be quite interested to hear the views of others, especially those on 'cavalry duty.'
Once more I certainly agree with lynchboy, at least where this matter is concerned:

I dont believe so.
the problem will only be cured after the passing of time and the development of trust and forgetting of reasoning why one side dislikes the other. imo its out of our hands and for th enext generation or so, quiet continuation will be better than making a big song and dance over opinions that vary from household to household either side of the 'divide'.

BTW, Chris, I know your sig is more or less a catchphrase on this board and you are only using what is bandied about freely, but I do have a problem with it.
The cavalry are supposed to be on 'our side!' People welcomed the arrival of the cavalry when John Wayne and his likes rode the range.
Aren't you and the others with you supposed to be Indians?

[Tony Baloney]

Youse are still at it I see 

[saffron sam2]

The scenario in the north of Ireland is such that it will take mindsets to change , that gestures etc wont ever affect
eg - if you changed all the GAA clubs names to meaningless nicknames like 'eagles, bulls, rhinos ' etc do you think that would alter unionist/loyalist mindsets towards the GAA?

I dont believe so.

But is the Union Jack and GSTQ not two of the big sticks used to beat the IFA with? Do many Nationalists not have major issues with these symbols, or do such Nationalists just need to change their mindset in relation to these symbols/gestures.

Like Saffron Sam (above), I don't presently have time for "cavalry duty"  , but on a point of information, the Union Flag is not flown/used by the IFA in connection with the NI team in any way, nor has it been for years. Otherwise I think that you make a good point (as ever), Maguire01.

I am sure that hyperspace breathed a massive sigh of relief when it realised both of us are far too busy to do this thread justice.

Howver I would like to point out that whilst your (admittedly irrelevant) point of information is indeed factually correct, I feel obliged to point out that whilst not used at NI matches by the IFA, it is almost de rigeur at all other major matches organised by the IFA. Secondly, it should also be pointed out that it is replaced at NI matches by an even more contentious flag, the widely discredited Ulster banner. Thirdly, since the subject of consistency has reared its head on this thread, it should be noted that the IFA policy re. flags and anthems is not consistent; surely by playing GSTQ, they should also fly the UJ; or by flying a flag that has no official function, but is specific to the north it should play an anthem that has no official function, but is specific to the north.