Mc Cartan gone

[Orior]

Tony McEntee has ruled himself out.

[DownFanatic]

Tony McEntee has ruled himself out.

Yeah Declan Bogue confirmed that in the Telegraph yesterday.

With McCartan gone I would also presume that Eamon Burns and Jerome Johnston are surplus to requirements too thus opening up the U-21 management position.

We've really lost our way at Minor and U21 level since 2009 when we reached the All Ireland Minor semi final and the All Ireland U-21 final.

[Orior]

Will the policy of poaching Armagh players continue?

[Aristo 60]

We'll certainly continue to roast them.

[whitegoodman]

He did a good job considering the amount of players Down lost sincre 2010 to emigration,  players to Afl, and injuries.
You seem to have an agenda with every manager Ck.

lol no not at all. I think youre right, he did a decent job. I was questioning the rationale that Down gave him time.. lets say Down went out in the 1st round in 2010 would he have lasted so long? In other words everything since 2010 wasn't really good enough for Down. Or was it Down people? I would guess not. 
Down lost 2 players to AFL. A very good panel remained and were capable of winning something. But they won nothing. Fact.
That's my assessment of it, Down people are of course much more qualified than me to give their views.

I would have thought that most Down people would think this a very narrow view to take of James reign.

Year 1 All Ireland Final
Year 2 Last 12
Year 3 All Ireland QF ( Ulster Final )
Year 4 2nd round Qualifiers
Year 5 2nd round Qualifers

He also got Down promoted to Div 1 and kept them there for 3 years, got to a Div 1 league semi final and took memorable scalps against Dublin and Kerry. 

James himself would admit that the last two years were not great but that is prob the reason why he himself saw this as the right time to go.  If he wanted to stay I dont think many Down supporters would have complained a) because there are very vew decent candidates to replace him and b) the calibre of Down player at the moment is average at best and there is very little coming through in the next 3-5 years going by our minor and under 21 teams of the past 5 years.

The idea that Down currently have a very good group of players is also misguided.  If they had everyone available to them they might just about get into the top 8-10 but the current panel is top 15 at best which is a division 2 team which is where James has left them.

[Mourne Rover]

Wobbler's assessment is spot on and it is fairly obvious that CK's posts were mischievous. Rather than regularly chopping and changing, Down have only had senior four managers in the last quarter of a century. Indeed, between two spells with the minors and his time with the u21s and the seniors, Pete McGrath served as a county manager at different levels in Down for a total of well over 20 years.

CK's attempt to dismiss James McCartan because he `won nothing' is also completely misleading. The All Ireland is well out of reach for most Ulster sides, the league is the league and the McKenna Cup is a pre-season tournament. Only four counties have won the provincial championship in the last 16 years, but that hardly means that everyone who did not do so in a particular summer is a failure.

Lifting trophies is great if it happens but managerial success at county level usually means that a team has reached or exceeded its potential in a particular season. For most of his term of office, James clearly delivered on this front.

[rodney trotter]

He did a good job considering the amount of players Down lost sincre 2010 to emigration,  players to Afl, and injuries.
You seem to have an agenda with every manager Ck.

lol no not at all. I think youre right, he did a decent job. I was questioning the rationale that Down gave him time.. lets say Down went out in the 1st round in 2010 would he have lasted so long? In other words everything since 2010 wasn't really good enough for Down. Or was it Down people? I would guess not. 
Down lost 2 players to AFL. A very good panel remained and were capable of winning something. But they won nothing. Fact.
That's my assessment of it, Down people are of course much more qualified than me to give their views.

They lost more then 2 players to AFL (Mooney wouldnt have been involved in 2010), other players emigrated, retired, Paul McComiskey was one their top forwards in 2010, in America now. Danny Hughes no longer playing


2010 team against Cork
B McVeigh, D McCartan, D Gordon, D Rafferty, D Rooney, K McKernan (0-01), C Garvey, P Fitzpatrick (0-1), K King, D Hughes (0-3), M Poland (0-01), B Coulter (0-01), P McComiskey (0-03), J Clarke (0-01), M Clarke (0-03, 3f).

Subs: C Maginn for J Clarke, R Murtagh (0-1) for P McComiskey, B McArdle for D Rafferty, C Laverty for M Poland

[DuffleKing]

McCartan brought some serious progression to the Down senior team when you compare where they were. They were woeful in 09 and I remember a 14 man Armagh putting them away comfortably in 2008 in Clones with largely the same group of players. Obviously Marty Clarke was a big injection for 2010 and they seriously overachieved with a bit of luck along the way - still could have won that All Ireland.

2012 probably is the only year they did themselves justice in there with an Ulster Final and All Ireland quarter final appearance and 2013 & 14 have been deceleration years. James did well with what he had. Could have delivered major silverware if A) they had a tiny bit more luck and/or B) they had a tiny bit more quality in defence.

I wouldn't know anything about what would be coming through in Down but it would have to be of reasonable quality to improve on the last 5 years. Is it fair to say that Coulter, King, D McCartan, Poland, Rogers & Rooney are close to finished?

[DownFanatic]

He did a good job considering the amount of players Down lost sincre 2010 to emigration,  players to Afl, and injuries.
You seem to have an agenda with every manager Ck.

lol no not at all. I think youre right, he did a decent job. I was questioning the rationale that Down gave him time.. lets say Down went out in the 1st round in 2010 would he have lasted so long? In other words everything since 2010 wasn't really good enough for Down. Or was it Down people? I would guess not. 
Down lost 2 players to AFL. A very good panel remained and were capable of winning something. But they won nothing. Fact.
That's my assessment of it, Down people are of course much more qualified than me to give their views.

They lost more then 2 players to AFL (Mooney wouldnt have been involved in 2010), other players emigrated, retired, Paul McComiskey was one their top forwards in 2010, in America now. Danny Hughes no longer playing


2010 team against Cork
B McVeigh, D McCartan, D Gordon, D Rafferty, D Rooney, K McKernan (0-01), C Garvey, P Fitzpatrick (0-1), K King, D Hughes (0-3), M Poland (0-01), B Coulter (0-01), P McComiskey (0-03), J Clarke (0-01), M Clarke (0-03, 3f).

Subs: C Maginn for J Clarke, R Murtagh (0-1) for P McComiskey, B McArdle for D Rafferty, C Laverty for M Poland

McComiskey was in America in 2013. Home this year and playing away at midfield for his club.

[whitegoodman]

McCartan brought some serious progression to the Down senior team when you compare where they were. They were woeful in 09 and I remember a 14 man Armagh putting them away comfortably in 2008 in Clones with largely the same group of players. Obviously Marty Clarke was a big injection for 2010 and they seriously overachieved with a bit of luck along the way - still could have won that All Ireland.

2012 probably is the only year they did themselves justice in there with an Ulster Final and All Ireland quarter final appearance and 2013 & 14 have been deceleration years. James did well with what he had. Could have delivered major silverware if A) they had a tiny bit more luck and/or B) they had a tiny bit more quality in defence.

I wouldn't know anything about what would be coming through in Down but it would have to be of reasonable quality to improve on the last 5 years. Is it fair to say that Coulter, King, D McCartan, Poland, Rogers & Rooney are close to finished?

You may seen the last of Coulter, King and D McCartan, Ambrose is still young enough but the amount of injuries he has had have take its toll at this stage, Poland and Rooney may have a year or two left.

[Mourne Rover]

The number of departures probably depends on who comes in as manager and Benny has said he is staying on anyway. Ambrose, Rooney and Poland are not yet 30, although Ambrose has been very unfortunate with injuries. King is 30 this year, which is hardly old, but his family and work commitments could be a problem. While we are very short of experienced defenders, Dan McCartan may well be looking at his options. Gordon is the same age as King, so hopefully he will give us another year as well.

[naka]

if mc corry wants it then he should get it
he knows DOWN football inside out albeit he is an Armagh man

[Real Talk]

Wobbler's assessment is spot on and it is fairly obvious that CK's posts were mischievous. Rather than regularly chopping and changing, Down have only had senior four managers in the last quarter of a century. Indeed, between two spells with the minors and his time with the u21s and the seniors, Pete McGrath served as a county manager at different levels in Down for a total of well over 20 years.

CK's attempt to dismiss James McCartan because he `won nothing' is also completely misleading. The All Ireland is well out of reach for most Ulster sides, the league is the league and the McKenna Cup is a pre-season tournament. Only four counties have won the provincial championship in the last 16 years, but that hardly means that everyone who did not do so in a particular summer is a failure.

Lifting trophies is great if it happens but managerial success at county level usually means that a team has reached or exceeded its potential in a particular season. For most of his term of office, James clearly delivered on this front.

Does anyone know why he (wee James) changed his management team of Paddy Tally and Brian McIvor or did they just move on (both went to Derry a couple of years later)