RTE are losing the plot.

[CD]

There is a real problem developing and this year it has really come to the fore. The personal attacks from pundits who have a platform to say whatever they want on tv with their 'victims' unable to answer back.
Brolly on Cavanagh.
Last week, Brolly on the whole of Tyrone.
Brolly on Grimley.
Eamon O'Hara on Kevin Walsh.

That is not punditry. That is abusing your position to attack people.

dont remember the full details of O'Hara/Walsh but of the rest only Brolly on Cavanagh was a personal attack.

What Cavanagh did does reflect badly on his character. Whats wrong with pointing that out???

Actually you could look at it the other way and say that what Sean did he did for the team - he knew that he could have been sent off and I don't think would have complained if he had. If he was selfish and concerned about his reputation he wouldn't have touched him but he did what he had to do to help his team.

You don't really believe Joe was accusing Cavanagh of being selfish?

Cheating an opponent and not fulfilling the standards expected by players of each other. Thats the accusation,

When asked every other player and pundit (except Joe) has said that they would have done exactly the same. Indeed Joe's two colleagues on RTE on Sat would have admonished any player that wouldn't have done it so he has fulfilled the standards set by players. Joe Brolley wouldn't have done it because he wouldn't have been back in that position but don't tell me Joe had never fallen dramatically and has had his opponent booked. That's cheating an opponent as well

They said they would do the same. They didn't say it wasn't cheating. TSG discussion confirmed this.

Fair play for Brolly for manning up and calling it as he saw it. Too many sitting on the holes afraid to offend anybody

I don't think anyone, including Tyrone fans, have an issue with the nature of the tackle but this kind of tackle has been part and parcel of our game for decades. The issue is the tone of Joe Brolly's attack. He made it very personal - just like he did on Conor Counihan and Paul Grimley. I was at all 4 games at the weekend and cynical fouling was rife throughout. Players were constantly been prevented from making supporting runs with two hands into the chest area. Peter Harte was late tackled on 6 occasions. Bernard Brogan, who had a poor game all round, drew fouls by 'being cute', and the victim of Sean Cavanagh's rugby tackle conned the referee on at least two occasions by grabbing McCarron's shirt and falling to the ground - Monaghan's first score came from this - McManus laughed in McCarron's face after he scored the resultant free and McCarron was later booked for repetitive fouling . Sean Cavanagh was just a bit more honest - he didn't attempt in any way, shape or form to con the referee.

He didn't con the ref when he grabbed Darren Hughes arm, fell, won a free, Darren Hughes booked, resulting free scored.  He cheated twice in 2 key moments of the game which had potentially a major bearing on the outcome yet you say he didn't attempt in any way to con the ref?  None so blind as those who refuse to see

I was clearly referring to the 'rugby tackle' incident. You're being obtuse. My point is that we are hung up on one incident and playing fiddle to Joe Brolly's ego when cynical football is widespread throughout the length and breadth of Ireland and is by no means restricted to Sean Cavanagh and Tyrone. The Darren Hughes incident was just bad refereeing and in my opinion had little impact on the outcome - he was struggling with Sean Cavanagh up to that point and I doubt that any player would keep him quiet in his current form. Aiden O'Shea could be the man however!

[brokencrossbar1]

BC you are one of te most knowledgeable poster on here but surly you would not call pulling a mans arm in order to win a free as "cheating". Would deliberately softening someone up with a good shoulder in the chest or a rib tickler that wasn't within the rules be called cheating as well, because if this was the case then perhaps you were guilty on occasions yourself??

Pulling a man's arm and falling is cheating, it's tricking the match official into giving you a free.  It is no different than a soccer player diving and rolling in the penalty box after receiving a non challenge.  The rest you say is against the rules and by doing it you could technically say that it is 'cheating'.  However, in my book 'cheating' has a more surreptitious feel to it, sneaky if you like.  If you want to make it personal about me then I can categorically state that very little of why I did was secretive, that's why I got caught so often

CD he wasn't struggling with Cavanagh, he was breaking even at that stage.  I wasn't being obtuse, you clearly state that Sean Cavanagh didn't attempt in any way, shape or form to con the referee.  I completely disagree with you, maybe he didn't in regards to the tackle but he did in respect of the other incident. 

[CD]

Brokencrossbar
When the kids go to bed this evening I may get a chance to sit and watch the game on TV! In the stadium on Saturday Cavanagh was really strong in the first 30 minutes - up to and including Darren Hughes' booking. I honestly didn't feel it marked a sea-change in the game. I'll come back and apologise if it turns out I was wrong on that one!
Like you, I have been on both sides of that kind of tackle (Cavanagh on McManus) and I never acknowledged it as 'cheating'. A forward grabbing my shirt or jersey, falling and simulating a foul is cheating in my opinion as there is a deliberate attempt to con the referee - I'll look closely at the Cavanagh/Hughes incident and see but in real time it looked like Cavanagh fell as a result of Hughes' attempts to win the ball. I believe the ref just got that one wrong.
By the way, I was watching the games as a complete neutral at the weekend and the Tyrone v Monaghan game was by far and away the most exciting encounter. Cork, Donegal and Cavan were all pretty well beaten. Dublin were really wasteful in front of goal and could have been out of sight by halftime.

[Wee Roddy]

BC in no way was I attacking you! I was just using the example that in my eyes boh are efforts to try and stop the other team from playing, same as a deliberate pick up off the ground or taking a free from the wrong place to gain an advantage for your team....are they really cheating?

[brokencrossbar1]

BC in no way was I attacking you! I was just using the example that in my eyes boh are efforts to try and stop the other team from playing, same as a deliberate pick up off the ground or taking a free from the wrong place to gain an advantage for your team....are they really cheating?

I'm only joking about me Roddy, anyway I would be the first to admit that I was always liberal about my interpretations of the rules!!!  I know what you are saying but to me there is something a bit more cynical in grabbing a man's arm to con the ref and it has a more 'wrong' sense about it.  Nicking a few yards is one thing but you won't get a man booked for it.  Picking a ball off the ground may give to an opportunity to score/save a score but is not inherently sneaky.  Pulling a man's arm into yours is cheating and has a more 'deliberate' feel about it than most other offences that break the rules.

[ludermor]

Whatever about RTE losing the plots there seems to a few on this thread who are losing it.
What is the cut off point to be called a cheat, Cavanagh dragged a man down , it was a foul. Is he any more of a cheat than any other deliberate foul? Until the rules change i cannot see why deserves to be a called a cheat when there are lot of serial offenders in every team in the country

[Wildweasel74]

Point is , is it the first time he done it, i would classify constant diving to win frees cheating, and unlink A O`Shea he goes to ground very easy under a tackle for a big man

[Throw ball]

I feel Cavanagh is getting so much stick because he is a Tyrone man. He should do the decent thing and transfer to the county of his wife so he can play along with his brother in law. Tyrone can keep Colm.

[barelegs]

There is a real problem developing and this year it has really come to the fore. The personal attacks from pundits who have a platform to say whatever they want on tv with their 'victims' unable to answer back.
Brolly on Cavanagh.
Last week, Brolly on the whole of Tyrone.
Brolly on Grimley.
Eamon O'Hara on Kevin Walsh.

That is not punditry. That is abusing your position to attack people.

Brolly's agenda in this instance is a carry over from the debate at Congress. Joe was desperate for his black cards to the point were he was given time at Congress and a short video montage to argue for them. Tyrone and Mickey Harte in particular were opposed to black cards. Joe's taking is own peculiar form of revenge.

As Ken Early (I think) asked in an article earlier if it was Dermot Carlin or Ciaran McGinley had pulled McManus down would there have been the same outcry from Joe?