The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[rrhf]

You would wonder at the people lying down and taking this in general.  The apathy of the nation has left people unsure and afraid and ideal for walking over. Wheres the national pride?     

[seafoid]

Good man the FT leader writer

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97fe4484-f66e-11df-846a-00144feab49a.html#axzz166McEaKq


•   The €750bn worth of financial ordnance in the European Financial Stability Facility and its European Union and International Monetary Fund matching funds was meant to bring enough shock and awe to scare markets off from thinking a eurozone sovereign might default. The EFSF's inaugural mobilisation reveals that between bond investors and Europe's leaders, the politicians blink first.
•   It is too soon to say whether the rescue into which Dublin has been manhandled by panicking EU partners can help fix Ireland's troubled banking sector. Decisions taken in the next week or two will make the difference between the rescue's failure and a chance of success.
•   If the troika now imposing its writ in Dublin can get the Irish to restructure their banks in a way that recapitalises the banking sector (if not extant institutions) by forcing bondholders to convert to equity or otherwise share in losses, the EFSF can provide useful backstop funding for public spending or calls on banks' guaranteed liabilities in the transition period, which must be kept as short as possible.
•   A good outcome requires both a special insolvency regime and the will to strong-arm senior creditors into taking haircuts – as Dublin, to its credit, is finally doing to Anglo Irish subordinate bondholders. •   So far, however, Ireland's uninvited helpers seem set on perpetuating Dublin's dysfunctional policy of throwing good money after bad and filling holes into which creditors refuse to step. This is understandable insofar as many of those creditors come from the core eurozone countries that guarantee the bulk of EFSF money. But it does not justify sticking to a failed strategy: keeping banks standing has already impoverished the Irish public by some €50bn, a third of a year's output. If borrowed EFSF money is used to inject equity into the banks now, it will only dig the Irish sovereign debt trap deeper.
•   The best that can realistically be hoped for is a combination of new equity and creditor haircuts. Whatever plan is laid, it is crucial that it does not aim to keep individual banks alive in their current form. That goal – which implies that the state continues to back all senior bank liabilities – is neither fair to taxpayers nor credible to markets. The mooted €80bn-€90bn rescue covers just half the Irish private sector's bank deposits, let alone other deposits and wholesale debt.
•   Not for the first time, Europe is facing bank creditors and feeling tempted not to face them down. If public money is again used just to buy time, the problem will soon return, more contagious than ever.

[thejuice]

Your right there RRHF

2 things that strike me.

1.Why isn't there a new left party emerging like there should be, Sinn Fein aren't new of course.

2.Why aren't we out on the streets demanding a default on the debts. Are we too afraid to make a scene. Same when all the other scandals hit, the church/FF corruption/Lisbon re-vote. Are we too worried we might look like ejits for standing up for something.

[Declan]

Note from financial blog

My colleague Graeme Wearden has worrying reports for Ireland – the bailout still isn't impressing the financial markets:
In the City today, investors are continuing to demand a higher return for investing in Irish debt following yesterday's drama.
The yield on Ireland's ten-year government bond jumped to 8.43% this
morning, up from 7.971% - moving back to the 9% levels that sparked
such panic earlier this month.
The cost of insuring Irish debt against default has also risen sharply
- with the five-year credit default swap up by 26 basis points

[Banana Man]

plus the euro to sterling rate has moved out further to 1.173 

[passedit]

Anybody still got still think they've got money in AIB?

[seafoid]

Note from financial blog

My colleague Graeme Wearden has worrying reports for Ireland – the bailout still isn't impressing the financial markets:
In the City today, investors are continuing to demand a higher return for investing in Irish debt following yesterday's drama.
The yield on Ireland's ten-year government bond jumped to 8.43% this
morning, up from 7.971% - moving back to the 9% levels that sparked
such panic earlier this month.
The cost of insuring Irish debt against default has also risen sharply
- with the five-year credit default swap up by 26 basis points

The bailout plan was supposed to lead to a fall in the yield which would allow Ireland to re enter the debt markets and not draw down any of the funding earmarked for the budget deficit. The bailout plan will have the be revised and it will have to involve bondholders paying something.

[An Gaeilgoir]

Was listening to Michael Sommers from the NTMA on Pat Kenny earlier. This man was out of the country the night the guarantee was given, not notified of the deal and basically said that this problem started in early 2007. The reason for the blanket guarantee was the people in with the banks thast night didn't have a clue about international banking. But from his views today, he was still miles away from the end of the tunnel. He reckons between NAMA and the on-going de stabilisation of the banks we are as much on the brink as we were last week. It was really depressing stuff. i know he is on the board of the AIB in some capicity, but Christ if what he says is to come true, we really are goosed.

[seafoid]

Was listening to Michael Sommers from the NTMA on Pat Kenny earlier. This man was out of the country the night the guarantee was given, not notified of the deal and basically said that this problem started in early 2007. The reason for the blanket guarantee was the people in with the banks thast night didn't have a clue about international banking. But from his views today, he was still miles away from the end of the tunnel. He reckons between NAMA and the on-going de stabilisation of the banks we are as much on the brink as we were last week. It was really depressing stuff. i know he is on the board of the AIB in some capicity, but Christ if what he says is to come true, we really are goosed.

Michael somers was right in the middle of the mess. As head of the NTMA he must have known what was going on with the banks and their massively inflated balance sheets. He was one of the most senior financial representatives of Ireland on the international stage. It is a bit rich of him now to paint himself as some sort of sage.

Europe can't afford to have Ireland go down.  The markets won't accept the current deal. they want bank restructuring and the bondholders are going to have to pay for it.

[lawnseed]

if you owe the bank a few hundred YOU are in trouble, if you owe them a couple of million THEY are in trouble. Tell them they'll get the money when we have it or get stuffed.

why aren't irish people out on the streets protesting because they take it up the arse, english landlords, the clergy, polititions, the guards, irish people have been taking it for centuries they know no different. i read that dublin catholics spat on the 1916 heroes on their way to being executed by the brits

i understand that the guards and reserve have been drilling/practising at dundalk race course for riots for the past few months to supress any protests that might arise... disgusting! this government have supressed the media, denied the irish people democracy, and now they intend to batter its citizens of the street

[Declan]

Michael somers was right in the middle of the mess

Did the plank ask him about NTMA and them moving monies out of Irish Bank stocks?

[tyronefan]

if you owe the bank a few hundred YOU are in trouble, if you owe them a couple of million THEY are in trouble. Tell them they'll get the money when we have it or get stuffed.

why aren't irish people out on the streets protesting because they take it up the arse, english landlords, the clergy, polititions, the guards, irish people have been taking it for centuries they know no different. i read that dublin catholics spat on the 1916 heroes on their way to being executed by the brits

i understand that the guards and reserve have been drilling/practising at dundalk race course for riots for the past few months to supress any protests that might arise... disgusting! this government have supressed the media, denied the irish people democracy, and now they intend to batter its citizens of the street

i thought the guards were very heavy handed with the protests at Leinster House over the last few days.

The way they brought the man to the ground who was standing in front of Mary Hanifin's car  was uncalled for and the guard yesterday was beating the people at the SF demo with his batton.

Neither of these protests were violent nor did they look like they were getting out of hand. I would have thought that a bit of reasoning would have been as effective as the bully boy tactic's

[rrhf]

Simplistic view of the day:
The Irish Governement with just 2 months left, in deference to pressure exerted by european "friends" who actually have more to lose if the hard deal isnt taken up, has chosen to honour the debt of the banks and stock holders, protect Bristish and European bank interests in Ireland, ignore the debt and hardship of the Irish people themselves, in fact add to it with budget cuts, sell their democracy and force the same people to pay the "friends" back for generations.  Not a bit of wonder we were always seen as green.   Looks like the famine is just beginning..

[highorlow]

2.Why aren't we out on the streets demanding a default on the debts. Are we too afraid to make a scene. Same when all the other scandals hit, the church/FF corruption/Lisbon re-vote. Are we too worried we might look like ejits for standing up for something.

Buyers remorse. We voted in the clowns. Or 44% of us did.

[Bogball XV]

2.Why aren't we out on the streets demanding a default on the debts. Are we too afraid to make a scene. Same when all the other scandals hit, the church/FF corruption/Lisbon re-vote. Are we too worried we might look like ejits for standing up for something.

Buyers remorse. We voted in the clowns. Or 44% of us did.

and a quick look at some of the threads from the 2007 election shows that there were plenty of willing voters on here too!