Irish Swell British Army Ranks

[whiskeysteve]

A jobs a job, wherever you can get it.

Disagree. Where there is a choice I would rather work as an engineer on a public project for example than design or build something than contributes to the likes of the war in Iraq

Well I guess there are those who would choose the army.

A jobs a job, wherever you can get it.

Yeah true and those guys in the SS who turned on the gas would definately agree.

is it fair to compare every army with the Nazi's?

Some would choose the army maybe through the lack of jobs out there as you say but many more wouldn't so you're wrong to say a jobs a job IMO.

[Zapatista]

Thank you, Zapatista,

You're welcome.

I note no denial in your post and that you ignored 80% my post you just tried to out patronise me. Good job.

[Zapatista]

Disagree. Where there is a choice I would rather work as an engineer on a public project for example than design or build something than contributes to the likes of the war in Iraq

Is is the same working for them as it is investing in them?

http://www.amnesty.ie/amnesty/live/irish/news-events/article.asp?id=18049&page=2156

Government must clarify position on cluster munitions and go further on ethical investment

[Evil Genius]

Thank you, Zapatista,

You're welcome.

I note no denial in your post and that you ignored 80% my post you just tried to out patronise me. Good job.

The "denial" was (or should have been) understood. And I did not "ignore 80% of [your] post". Rather I declined to reply to it, since it was overwhelmingly opinion, rant even, rather than fact or reasoning. As such, I didn't see any point in trying to persuade you otherwise.

P.S. I would never try to "out patronise" you - I know when I'm out of my depth...

[Evil Genius]

From what I can make out the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are widely viewed as unpopular or illegal in the western world.

Iraq maybe, but Afghanistan certainly not.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2001/sc7248.doc.htm

20/12/2001 Press Release  SC/7248 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Security Council    4443rd Meeting (PM)

SECURITY COUNCIL AUTHORIZES INTERNATIONAL SECURITY FORCE FOR AFGHANISTAN;


WELCOMES UNITED KINGDOM'S OFFER TO BE INITIAL LEAD NATION


Resolution 1386 (2001) Adopted Unanimously

The Security Council this afternoon authorized the establishment for six months of an International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan to assist the Afghan Interim Authority in the maintenance of security in Kabul and its surrounding areas, and welcomed the United Kingdom's offer to take the lead in organizing and commanding such a force.

The Council, unanimously adopting resolution 1386 (2001) as orally revised, also called upon Member States to contribute personnel, equipment and other resources to the Force and authorized those States participating in it to take all necessary measures to fulfil its mandate.  The resolution also called upon the Force to work in close consultation with the Interim Authority in the implementation of its mandate as well as with the Special Representative of the Secretary-General, Lakhdar Brahimi.

By other terms of the text, the Council called on all Afghans to cooperate with the Force and relevant intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations while encouraging neighbouring countries and other Member States to provide the Force such necessary assistance as might be requested, including the provision of overflight clearances and transit.

The resolution also stressed that the expenses of the Force would be borne by participating Member States concerned; asked the Secretary-General to establish a trust fund through which contributions could be channelled to the countries or operations concerned; and encouraged Member States to contribute to the fund.

[bingobus]

Was watching (well it was on in background) Soccer AM on Saturday morning and they do a competition for those serving in the Armed forces, bascially an Iron Soldier type strength test (loading power bags into a jeep).

On Saturday they had Paul McGarths son doing it. He is in the Marines after a short spell playing Rugby. He is UK born. Think it was Mitch. Other brother played underage soccer for Ireland and Liverpool but not sure where he went. Think McGarth mentioned this in his book.

[Evil Genius]

I'm surprised no-one thought to post this particular gem...


From the SF website
Published: 1 December, 2008

Sinn Féin spokesperson on International Affairs Aengus Ó Snodaigh TD has said that Irish neutrality and sovereignty are being violated by the active recruitment of young Irishmen into the British Army. He said it was disgraceful that this was being facilitated by some media outlets, including RTÉ, The Irish Times and Irish editions of British tabloids.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh said:

"Irish neutrality is being violated by the recruitment of young people into the British Army in Ireland. Article 4 of the Hague Convention on neutrality states that 'combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents'.

"Enlistment in the British Army has been stepped up in Ireland with people from the 26 Counties crossing the Border to join in the Six Counties. The British Army carries on active recruitment in the Six Counties, in violation of the principles underlying the Good Friday Agreement. As unemployment grows the danger is that more young Irish people will be duped into joining this mercenary force.

"It is disgraceful that the British Army's public relations offensive in Ireland is being facilitated by certain media outlets. The latest example is today's (Monday) RTÉ 'Morning Ireland' report from Tommy Gorman interviewing Irish members of the British Army's Irish Guards regiment. Tommy Gorman's report was a PR coup for the British Army. There was no mention of the role of the British Army as aggressors and occupiers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Ireland.

"We have also seen a serving British soldier being given a diary slot in The Irish Times and the Irish editions of British tabloids regularly carry jingoistic articles lauding the British Army.

"The British Army is actively engaged in wars and their recruitment activity in Ireland violates Irish sovereignty and neutrality." ENDS



The "reasoning" behind that little lot is nearly as desperate Radar McElduff's campaign to unify Ireland by painting Northern post boxes green!  

[Smell the glove]

This would be stopped with a law passed that any irish man or woman who joins any foreign army without government permission loses their citizenship.if you want to be in an army join the irish army.Joining a foreign army you show no loyality.why should ireland benefit you from that?

[Hardy]

As a matter of interest, does anybody know whether there are nationality criteria for membership of the British armed forces? I would assume not, if Irish nationals can join, but then Britain does patronise us in several ways by not treating us as it does other sovereign nations. Or to be less long-winded - can a French national join the British army? A citizen of the British Commonwealth?

(References to 'Ireland' and 'Irish' in what follows refer to the Irish state).

That Tommy Gorman piece mentioned in the provo press release was just a snippet from a longer TV feature carried last night in the "Nationwide" TV slot on RTÉ1. I was bit taken aback by it, to be honest. It was a series of interviews with Irish members of the Irish Guards with copious references to the historic context for Irish people joining the British army (much of it pre-independence and so irrelevant), and lots of neutral voice-over commentary about "missions" they've been on, etc. but no reference at all to the controversial nature of many of those missions and no questioning of the issue of citizens of the neutral Irish state participating in illegal wars under a foreign flag and no treatment of the question I asked above about whether Britain recruits foreign citizens from any country other than Ireland. Moreover, it had a very light touch on what the huge majority of the audience for this would certainly have been asking itself - the mentality that allows an Irish national to serve in the British crown forces. It almost came across as a propaganda piece, or at least a normalisation initiative to make it look the most natural thing in the world for Irish people to join the British army. Very strange, I thought.

[Main Street]

I wonder how can 10 or so recruits "Swell British Army Ranks"?
Are we talking bulk here?

[Evil Genius]

As a matter of interest, does anybody know whether there are nationality criteria for membership of the British armed forces? I would assume not, if Irish nationals can join, but then Britain does patronise us in several ways by not treating us as it does other sovereign nations. Or to be less long-winded - can a French national join the British army? A citizen of the British Commonwealth?

http://www.armyjobs.mod.uk/howdoijoin/canijoin/Pages/EntryRequirements.aspx

As you will see from the above, it is basically British citizens or Commonwealth citizens, or the last tiny remnants of the Empire, plus Irish citizens. (Also the Gurkhas, who are a special case dating back over 100 years)

As for your "patronising" remark, where Irish citizens were treated differently to those from other sovereign nations (pre-EU, that is), such differential treatment was invariably beneficial to the Irish - e.g. voting rights, no need to carry a Passport, Health & Social Security rights and, it seems, access to the Armed Forces, should they so wish*.


* - This last was never compulsory, btw...

[Roger]

If the Army wanted more Irish recruits (even though Irish troops are already and have been proudly represented in the British Army for hundreds of years) the best thing they could do would be to ban them. That way there would be a call for a Euro Human Rights investigation and citing of the 'Good Friday Agreement' that Irish people are being discriminated against.  FFS SF would probably demand a 50:50 recruitment policy 

[Jim_Murphy_74]

A genuine question:  How would a person from Northern Ireland who joined the Irish Army be regarded in the unionist/loyalist community? - As a career soldier, someone committing treason or somewhere in the middle?

/Jim.

[Evil Genius]

A genuine question:  How would a person from Northern Ireland who joined the Irish Army be regarded in the unionist/loyalist community? - As a career soldier, someone committing treason or somewhere in the middle?

/Jim.

Deranged? I've never heard of anyone from such a background ever contemplating such a move, far less going ahead with it. As I see it, a military career appeals to some people, but doesn't to others. Obviously the latter would never join the IDF or any other army.

As for the former, if you want to be a soldier, why would you join the IDF to further your ambitions when the British armed forces are open to you? It's a bit like a young footballer deciding to play for e.g. St. Pats Athletic or Galway Utd or someone, in preference to an offer from Chelsea or Man Utd...

Even those who want to be in the armed forces, but disapprove of Iraq etc, can always find a branch of the Services where they're unlikely to be sent there - the Royal Navy, perhaps, or a specialist unit? Some people on this Board who disapprove of the British Army etc seem to think it is entirely composed of infantry squaddies or Paras, or Marines etc, who are the ones who usually see the dirty end of the action. However, there is a whole range of other specialist units whose duties vary enormously. Which, btw, is likely one of the attractions for Irish recruits, not really available in the IDF.

P.S. To answer your question directly, in the highly unlikely event of an NI Unionist deciding to join the IDF, I'd say the reaction would vary from (benign) bemusement, via suspicion, to outright hostility, depending on how hardline his background/neighbourhood is. But as I say, I really can't imagine it ever happening.

[mylestheslasher]

A genuine question:  How would a person from Northern Ireland who joined the Irish Army be regarded in the unionist/loyalist community? - As a career soldier, someone committing treason or somewhere in the middle?

/Jim.

Deranged? I've never heard of anyone from such a background ever contemplating such a move, far less going ahead with it. As I see it, a military career appeals to some people, but doesn't to others. Obviously the latter would never join the IDF or any other army.

As for the former, if you want to be a soldier, why would you join the IDF to further your ambitions when the British armed forces are open to you? It's a bit like a young footballer deciding to play for e.g. St. Pats Athletic or Galway Utd or someone, in preference to an offer from Chelsea or Man Utd...

Even those who want to be in the armed forces, but disapprove of Iraq etc, can always find a branch of the Services where they're unlikely to be sent there - the Royal Navy, perhaps, or a specialist unit? Some people on this Board who disapprove of the British Army etc seem to think it is entirely composed of infantry squaddies or Paras, or Marines etc, who are the ones who usually see the dirty end of the action. However, there is a whole range of other specialist units whose duties vary enormously. Which, btw, is likely one of the attractions for Irish recruits, not really available in the IDF.

P.S. To answer your question directly, in the highly unlikely event of an NI Unionist deciding to join the IDF, I'd say the reaction would vary from (benign) bemusement, via suspicion, to outright hostility, depending on how hardline his background/neighbourhood is. But as I say, I really can't imagine it ever happening.

I see. Why would a unionist join an army thats only missions are as peace keepers when the can join an army that goes around the world slaughtering civilians, torturing prisoners, dropping cluster bombs and flouting all of the laws of war. If that is the case what does that say of the mindset of your average unionist?