Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[trileacman]

Belfast has multiple outdoor concerts per year, I work a lot of them, the likes of Belsonic has 10 or more alone, Féile an Phobail is Ireland biggest community arts festival.. The SSE has multiple gigs

So while I don't think it will be tearing the place up with a lot more concerts, it will have an opportunity to be in with a shout to bid for them or attract more people.

The capacity is too big, thought it at the time, I'd have settled for a 30,000 seater closed in type but sure lets see what happens eh? Hopefully I'll be still alive when it/if done

The really big miss was not having a fully roofed multi-purpose stadium in Belfast for soccer, rugby, concerts and GAA. It would have gotten so much use, been eligible for major tournaments in rugby and soccer and had a cracking atmosphere. The ~400 million we will have pissed away on Casement, Windsor and Ravenhill would have built it I think.

[gallsman]

One thing about that though would have been accessibility of the stadium to Antrim clubs. I played countless times in Casement as a kid. I doubt that'd have been possible with the IFA and IRFU.

[Baile Brigín 2]

One thing about that though would have been accessibility of the stadium to Antrim clubs. I played countless times in Casement as a kid. I doubt that'd have been possible with the IFA and IRFU.

Croker is open to other sports, hasn't stopped kids games.

I doubt the IFA will have any requirement and Ulster rugby are years off it.

[general_lee]

Belfast has multiple outdoor concerts per year, I work a lot of them, the likes of Belsonic has 10 or more alone, Féile an Phobail is Ireland biggest community arts festival.. The SSE has multiple gigs

So while I don't think it will be tearing the place up with a lot more concerts, it will have an opportunity to be in with a shout to bid for them or attract more people.

The capacity is too big, thought it at the time, I'd have settled for a 30,000 seater closed in type but sure lets see what happens eh? Hopefully I'll be still alive when it/if done

The really big miss was not having a fully roofed multi-purpose stadium in Belfast for soccer, rugby, concerts and GAA. It would have gotten so much use, been eligible for major tournaments in rugby and soccer and had a cracking atmosphere. The ~400 million we will have pissed away on Casement, Windsor and Ravenhill would have built it I think.

Nail on the head. Sirocco site would have been ideal. It's bewildering sometimes how tribal politics has such an overwhelming influence on major development here.

[Rossfan]

Páirc Uí Chaoimh has a  major debt on it.
If Casement is built to whatever size it can get with the "free" money available it won't have a debt.
Naming rights deal should take care of maintenance.

Stop blathering. BUILD IT!

[gallsman]

One thing about that though would have been accessibility of the stadium to Antrim clubs. I played countless times in Casement as a kid. I doubt that'd have been possible with the IFA and IRFU.

Croker is open to other sports, hasn't stopped kids games.

I doubt the IFA will have any requirement and Ulster rugby are years off it.

Not aware of too many Dublin U16 Football semifinals that are played in Croker tbh.

Also, there's clearly a difference between a multi purpose stadium shared between three sports and Croker, owned by the GAA, being made available to other sports. But I imagine you already knew that.

[Baile Brigín 2]

One thing about that though would have been accessibility of the stadium to Antrim clubs. I played countless times in Casement as a kid. I doubt that'd have been possible with the IFA and IRFU.

Croker is open to other sports, hasn't stopped kids games.

I doubt the IFA will have any requirement and Ulster rugby are years off it.

Not aware of too many Dublin U16 Football semifinals that are played in Croker tbh.

Also, there's clearly a difference between a multi purpose stadium shared between three sports and Croker, owned by the GAA, being made available to other sports. But I imagine you already knew that.

Apologies, it wasnt clear you were talking about the Maze

[illdecide]

Just checking in to see if it has been built yet?. Should be renamed "Kneecap Park"

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Paul Rouse article in Examiner

Very good article in Examiner today. Hard to argue with his logic.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Paul Rouse article in Examiner

Very good article in Examiner today. Hard to argue with his logic.

Behind paywall any chance you can cut and paste the article

[Rossfan]

There is a painful decision to be made on the future of Casement Park.

The vision of building a 34,500 capacity stadium in West Belfast is no longer a sustainable one. The extraordinary cost of the planned development — basically more than £250m (€293m) and possibly more than £300m — is entirely unrealistic.

That it is still being seriously considered and – indeed promoted – is rooted in the legacy of conflict. There are understandable arguments around symbolism, identity and equity as to why Casement Park should be redeveloped.

How much money should be spent to realise the justice of those arguments in bricks and mortar?

A

nd if it is indeed deemed necessary to spend the guts of a quarter of a billion euros then whose money should that be?

As things stand, the British government recently committed to provide £50m. The Northern Ireland Executive had already pledged £62.5m, and the Irish Government has committed to paying £43m.

That a total of some £155.5m (around €182m) of taxpayers' money will be devoted to building a GAA stadium is incredible.

The GAA itself has promised £15m of its own money to the project.

It is difficult to get precise figures on the current cost of the redevelopment of the stadium. And to consider that the ultimate cost will be greater than the projected cost would be wise.

The most basic maths suggests that as plans still stand, the shortfall in the building of the stadium is somewhere around £80m.

Is it seriously being suggested that the Irish government and the GAA should provide that money?

It should be noted that after 2011 when the GAA went about redeveloping Casement Park – which had been the home of Antrim GAA following its opening in 1953 – the estimated cost of the project was put at £76m.

That the shortfall in current funding for the stadium is actually now greater than the original projected cost of the stadium in its initial design is quite something.

The delays have been desperately unfortunate. The legal rows, planning permission disputes, and political posturing that derailed a quick build are a stain on those whose motivations were malevolent. The prejudice of some people remains outrageous.

In the intervening years, the increase in the cost of building anything in Ireland has accelerated out of sight. The interlude where the stadium was planned to sit as a prospective venue for the 2028 European Soccer Championships was further calamitous to the delivery of the stadium.

The eventual decision to abandon Belfast as a venue for Euro 2028 was exceptionally disappointing. It was rooted in the knowledge that Casement Park would not be delivered in time. The city is the original home of soccer on the island and for no game to be played there on what was more or less the 150th anniversary of the playing of organised games is a shame.

Nonetheless, the fact that the need to deliver a stadium that meets the specifications of an international soccer competition no longer exists, it offers a pathway to reason.

This is a matter of scale. A redeveloped 10,000-12,000 capacity stadium as a home of Gaelic games in Belfast, as the central point of Antrim GAA, will still be extremely costly, but it is something that must surely be manageable. The stadium should stand as a monument to all of those people who have given so much to the GAA in Antrim over the decades without being a financial millstone around the generations to come.

To this end, it must always be remembered that it is not merely the initial outlay that matters but also the ongoing costs of maintenance and refurbishment. As every member of every county board executive committee knows, the money required here is draining.

Money spent on grounds is money that cannot be used for another purpose. It is a matter of choices. Is this the best way to further the GAA in Antrim, or could other initiatives be more valuable to getting people playing Gaelic games?

The GAA already has a small herd of white elephants and there are those within the Association who seem determined to breed more. They also wish to use public money in this exercise. When around €100 million was spent on Páirc Uí Chaoimh, it included €30m of public money. What financial modelling – drawn up by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the particular nature of the GAA's operations – made this a plausible use of anyone's money?

With the lessons available from the debt overhang on that project, the idea that around three times as much should be spent on Casement Park is a most curious thing.

It is worth remembering that the only time a Casement Park with a capacity of more than 30,000 would be full for GAA matches every year would most likely be for an Ulster Final. There is no denying that such an occasion in West Belfast would be hugely symbolic.

And yet it is difficult to see how it actually merits taxpayers and GAA members spending the sum of money that is proposed.

There is a further consideration: If Casement Park is to benefit from being awarded Ulster Finals, there is an inevitable logic to what this will mean for Clones and other grounds in the province. The spectacle of the GAA spending money to compete with itself is not an attractive one.

That so much time has already been lost – and that so many millions have already been spent in professional fees – is deeply regrettable. The consequences of this for Antrim GAA were plain for all to see in the debacle of how they were treated by Ulster GAA in respect of their home game in the Ulster senior football championship earlier this year.

This is a saga which has continued for too long. It is bound tightly into the workings of the Northern Ireland Executive, as well as the GAA. There is now an acute need for leadership of wisdom and confidence to deliver an alternative to current plans and to break the logjam.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Thank you

[twohands!!!]

The financials are at the stage now where they make so little sense that anyone who is still in favour of building the 34,000 version at Casement, should be looking at instant dismissal from any role or position involving having any responsibilty for any spending whatsoever.

If a private business announced it was going spending £200 million plus to increase it's capacity to hold matches by a total of 5,000 for one day a year, I'd imagine law enforcement would descend on the business with lightning speed.

[armaghniac]

"This is a matter of scale. A redeveloped 10,000-12,000 capacity stadium as a home of Gaelic games in Belfast, as the central point of Antrim GAA, will still be extremely costly, but it is something that must surely be manageable. The stadium should stand as a monument to all of those people who have given so much to the GAA in Antrim over the decades without being a financial millstone around the generations to come."

Why should such a ground cost much more than the €24m being spent in Dundalk for a similar size? In this case, some money should be directed to improving other NI grounds, in places where people actually have an interest in GAA.

But if Dundalk costs €25m, then 6 times that amount should build a stadium of a decent standard in Belfast, with about 2.5 times the capacity of Dundalk. Surely this is feasible? What exactly is the problem?

The financials are at the stage now where they make so little sense that anyone who is still in favour of building the 34,000 version at Casement, should be looking at instant dismissal from any role or position involving having any responsibilty for any spending whatsoever.

If a private business announced it was going spending £200 million plus to increase it's capacity to hold matches by a total of 5,000 for one day a year, I'd imagine law enforcement would descend on the business with lightning speed.

I think the same financial planner was working for Parnells!

[Baile Brigín 2]

The €24m for Dundalk is phase 1, 6,000 seats.