Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[barelegs]

If Louth can build can 6k stand, floodlights, dressing rooms, ancillaries for €24m, surely to God Casement with about 9 times that amount can build a decent stadium that will more than suffice.
Stop fkn blathering and moaning, get it out to tender, appoint a contractor and BUILD!!

This.

I fully agree. I can't come on board with the idea that the £170 million stadium is sop in áit na scuaibe or that the GAA are being short changed. £170 million does not build you a throw together pile of shite. It should build you a damn good stadium that you can be bloody proud of........ and indeed allow you to hold concerts and whatever other ballix.
Why have we decided that £260 million is what the GAA (and west Belfast) deserves? Because that's what the GAA asked for? For those who want the GAA to hold out until they get that money handed to them, did you have an upper limit figure in your head? I mean, if the GAA were looking £500 million, would that be what they deserved?

Would the planning etc not need redone for a small stadium?

It would. The current design went through extensive pre-consultation given previous experience with the residents so if a design was ready to go tomorrow (which it isn't) the consultation period could take anything up to 18 months. Then the current application took 5 years to get approved by planners and the courts. Taking that into account as a guide for a new design. A smaller stadium might be ready to commence construction in 2031/2. 18-24 month construction period. So opened in 2033/4?

Worth noting that a significant chunk of the rise in costs is due to having to dig the bowl for the stadium out. This was necessary due to resident concerns around the height of stands etc. That's not going away. The original costs were based on the first design that wasn't in that bowl.

With the best will in the world it's this design or the project will be scrapped altogether. And if work hasn't significantly commenced by summer 2026 the planning will have timed out. Probably suits the Minister and the Department and plenty within the GAA

Sorry, hold up.....what happens the £170 million in this case??

Well the UK Government money is contingent on the rest of the money being found for this project. It isn't a blank cheque £50m to spend on any stadium at the site or at least that was my reading of what was said on Wednesday. So it's £120m for another stadium (and does the Irish Government money remain committed in that case?)

So if you redesign another stadium and take it through planning and the courts that isn't built for another 5-7 years based on previous experience, what's the cost of that going to be in terms of what we know about construction costs at the minute?

It's a bit frustrating to hear people talk about throwing up a 25,000 capacity stadium as if it can be started tomorrow and be done cheaply in a year or two. That's not the case.

Can Antrim or the GAA wait to 2032 for a stadium at the site?

[RadioGAAGAA]

With the best will in the world it's this design or the project will be scrapped altogether.

A load of FUD.


And to be brutally honest, if it's a choice of this design or nothing - the long term health of the GAA in Ulster is better served by nothing.


(Yes, that's how bad the ongoing financial burden it'll incur is being misread by the hopeless optimists)

[twohands!!!]

Sorry, hold up.....what happens the £170 million in this case??

Well the UK Government money is contingent on the rest of the money being found for this project. It isn't a blank cheque £50m to spend on any stadium at the site or at least that was my reading of what was said on Wednesday. So it's £120m for another stadium (and does the Irish Government money remain committed in that case?)

So if you redesign another stadium and take it through planning and the courts that isn't built for another 5-7 years based on previous experience, what's the cost of that going to be in terms of what we know about construction costs at the minute?

It's a bit frustrating to hear people talk about throwing up a 25,000 capacity stadium as if it can be started tomorrow and be done cheaply in a year or two. That's not the case.

Can Antrim or the GAA wait to 2032 for a stadium at the site?
[/quote]

The reality is that if the GAA say they are going to build a smaller stadium at the same site when the current planning permission expires contributions from London, Dublin and Stormont aren't going to be revoked.

[Tony Baloney]

Sorry, hold up.....what happens the £170 million in this case??

Well the UK Government money is contingent on the rest of the money being found for this project. It isn't a blank cheque £50m to spend on any stadium at the site or at least that was my reading of what was said on Wednesday. So it's £120m for another stadium (and does the Irish Government money remain committed in that case?)

So if you redesign another stadium and take it through planning and the courts that isn't built for another 5-7 years based on previous experience, what's the cost of that going to be in terms of what we know about construction costs at the minute?

It's a bit frustrating to hear people talk about throwing up a 25,000 capacity stadium as if it can be started tomorrow and be done cheaply in a year or two. That's not the case.

Can Antrim or the GAA wait to 2032 for a stadium at the site?

The reality is that if the GAA say they are going to build a smaller stadium at the same site when the current planning permission expires contributions from London, Dublin and Stormont aren't going to be revoked.
[/quote]Some people think the general public are stupid. As if any of the contributors have a caveat saying it must only be spent against the current design you can't afford to build!

[armaghniac]

With the best will in the world it's this design or the project will be scrapped altogether.

A load of FUD.


And to be brutally honest, if it's a choice of this design or nothing - the long term health of the GAA in Ulster is better served by nothing.


(Yes, that's how bad the ongoing financial burden it'll incur is being misread by the hopeless optimists)

While the concern about a financial burden brought about by hubris is a real one, the GAA needs something there in the second city in the country.

[general_lee]

People keep pointing to PuC and lack of concerts while forgetting Cork is much smaller than Belfast, less accessible and less attractive for major concerts.

Belfast is far more similar to Cork than compared to Dublin in terms of attracting concerts.

This is what the CEO of Cork GAA said a few month's back at a speech in PuC

"Concerts in this building are challenging because we're a mid size venue. We're too big for Live at the Marquee, we're too small for Coldplay. We talk to the promoters every day we are seeing now if we can move the dial a little bit and go into smaller events and use car parks and use 4G and put marquees up on the pitch and so on.

"So lest anyone think we are idle, you are at the discretion of the major acts' touring diaries; it's not your diary it's theirs, and we play games for a significant period of the year. Concerts are the only thing that will move the dial on debt here. Everything else really is to keep the lights on."

PuC has no concerts this year, one Bruce Springsteen concert last year and none the year before that.

There is the possibility that Casement is much more successful at attracting concerts compared to PuC but the possibility isn't that great. I haven't heard any sort of decent argument why the Ulster Council would be much more successful at convincing promoters to hold concerts in Casememt compared to the Cork County Board convincing promoters to pay to use PuC.

Belfast is much more attractive for concerts. The greater Belfast area is roughly triple that of Cork. It is closer to the "mainland" so plenty of Brits will and do come over for to see gigs as it is. Any new Casement stadium could face the exact same issue attracting the right acts though.

[RadioGAAGAA]

While the concern about a financial burden brought about by hubris is a real one, the GAA needs something there in the second city in the country.

I'd wholeheartedly agree if you'd said:

While the concern about a financial burden brought about by hubris is a real one, the GAA really should have something there in the second city in the country.

Clearly, need is too strong - as the GAA in Ulster is surviving quite all right without Casement.


[No taking away its a bit of a balls for Antrim not having a bigger ground than Corrigan at the moment though.]

[RadioGAAGAA]

Belfast is much more attractive for concerts. The greater Belfast area is roughly triple that of Cork. It is closer to the "mainland" so plenty of Brits will and do come over for to see gigs as it is. Any new Casement stadium could face the exact same issue attracting the right acts though.

Maybe moreso than Cork - but is it attractive enough?

How many gigs might choose Casement ahead of Boucher (approx 40k capacity) and at what price?
Promotors aren't gonna go to another venue if there is nothing in it for them.
Would Casement have a midnight stop time?

I see Boucher has 6 days worth of events for 2025 (or rest of 2025 - dunno if they had any already).

[BigGreenField]

Belfast is much more attractive for concerts. The greater Belfast area is roughly triple that of Cork. It is closer to the "mainland" so plenty of Brits will and do come over for to see gigs as it is. Any new Casement stadium could face the exact same issue attracting the right acts though.

Maybe moreso than Cork - but is it attractive enough?

How many gigs might choose Casement ahead of Boucher (approx 40k capacity) and at what price?
Promotors aren't gonna go to another venue if there is nothing in it for them.
Would Casement have a midnight stop time?

I see Boucher has 6 days worth of events for 2025 (or rest of 2025 - dunno if they had any already).

Cost def a factor although the City council do charge a fair whack at Boucher. Interestingly directing gigs to Casement is within the councils control they could
Pull this one weird trick of actually hosting some sports at Boucher Playing Fields (the closest it's seen to ball sports in the past 10 years is the clowns juggling at the circus)

The city would still get concerts and they'd be in a location on the glider routes probably bringing more business to city centre than present.

[Mourne Red]

Could they work putting the Fiele in the park (or whatever it is) to Feile in Casement Park.

Would be a massive money maker a few dates in August every year.. Then some big GAA games, Ulster final etc. Ways to make money back for them

[Jeepers Creepers]

Could they work putting the Fiele in the park (or whatever it is) to Feile in Casement Park.

Would be a massive money maker a few dates in August every year.. Then some big GAA games, Ulster final etc. Ways to make money back for them

This was one for certain.

[Saffrongael]

Could they work putting the Fiele in the park (or whatever it is) to Feile in Casement Park.

Would be a massive money maker a few dates in August every year.. Then some big GAA games, Ulster final etc. Ways to make money back for them

This was one for certain.

Yep that one could be seen years ago and was called on this thread, especially when you saw the make up of the Casement residents pressure group, and obviously Sinn Fein will be pushing it hard.

[Baile Brigín 2]

People keep pointing to PuC and lack of concerts while forgetting Cork is much smaller than Belfast, less accessible and less attractive for major concerts.

Belfast is far more similar to Cork than compared to Dublin in terms of attracting concerts.

This is what the CEO of Cork GAA said a few month's back at a speech in PuC

"Concerts in this building are challenging because we're a mid size venue. We're too big for Live at the Marquee, we're too small for Coldplay. We talk to the promoters every day we are seeing now if we can move the dial a little bit and go into smaller events and use car parks and use 4G and put marquees up on the pitch and so on.

"So lest anyone think we are idle, you are at the discretion of the major acts' touring diaries; it's not your diary it's theirs, and we play games for a significant period of the year. Concerts are the only thing that will move the dial on debt here. Everything else really is to keep the lights on."

PuC has no concerts this year, one Bruce Springsteen concert last year and none the year before that.

There is the possibility that Casement is much more successful at attracting concerts compared to PuC but the possibility isn't that great. I haven't heard any sort of decent argument why the Ulster Council would be much more successful at convincing promoters to hold concerts in Casememt compared to the Cork County Board convincing promoters to pay to use PuC.

Belfast is much more attractive for concerts. The greater Belfast area is roughly triple that of Cork. It is closer to the "mainland" so plenty of Brits will and do come over for to see gigs as it is. Any new Casement stadium could face the exact same issue attracting the right acts though.

So why aren't Belfast getting the concerts now?

If Casement gets built as is, that is c45,000 capacity for gigs. So they are head to head with Croker and LR, who compete on price. Do you think they will be let freely eat Crokers lunch on gigs?

[Milltown Row2]

Belfast has multiple outdoor concerts per year, I work a lot of them, the likes of Belsonic has 10 or more alone, Féile an Phobail is Ireland biggest community arts festival.. The SSE has multiple gigs

So while I don't think it will be tearing the place up with a lot more concerts, it will have an opportunity to be in with a shout to bid for them or attract more people.

The capacity is too big, thought it at the time, I'd have settled for a 30,000 seater closed in type but sure lets see what happens eh? Hopefully I'll be still alive when it/if done

[Baile Brigín 2]

Belfast has multiple outdoor concerts per year, I work a lot of them, the likes of Belsonic has 10 or more alone, Féile an Phobail is Ireland biggest community arts festival.. The SSE has multiple gigs

So while I don't think it will be tearing the place up with a lot more concerts, it will have an opportunity to be in with a shout to bid for them or attract more people.

The capacity is too big, thought it at the time, I'd have settled for a 30,000 seater closed in type but sure lets see what happens eh? Hopefully I'll be still alive when it/if done

I get that. But what I was responding to is the notion that the only reason Taylor, AC/DC, the Stones and so on don't play Belfast is lack of a hall and they will queue up for Casement is ludicrous.

If you think concerts will make the place viable Thomond Park and PuC want a word.