Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[general_lee]

Casement could host:

Antrim MFC/MHC finals
Antrim club JFC/IFC/SFC semifinals and finals
Ulster club matches and finals
AI club quarter & semi finals
MacRory and other schools competition  finals
Antrim football & hurling league fixtures
Ulster SFC matches, semi-finals & final
Joe McDonagh/Leinster hurling/AI hurling fixtures

Those alone are not enough and you'd be trying to incorporate as many double headers as possible.

I'd be exploring every single avenue at this stage, major sponsorship, naming rights, partnership with BCC, Féile, etc.

I think NFL is a non runner but there's still potential with concerts. People keep pointing to PuC and lack of concerts while forgetting Cork is much smaller than Belfast, less accessible and less attractive for major concerts.

There's always scope for soccer, rugby, Aussie/international rules down the line.

[Evil Genius]

You sir are talking sh1te. I'm not sticking nothing up to the Prods, I keep posting it's being blocked because it's for the GAA and the Unionist/Loyalist community would rather die than see this stadium built, that's a fact. I can't see what's wrong with making a factual statement like that. I've said many times if this scenario was Windsor Park or Ravenhill it would have been already built (The GAA didn't cover themselves in glory with this either). That's my opinion and you're entitled to yours...Sin e.

I must say, when reading this forum generally, I have been pleased, even impressed, by the reasonable and measured contributions of the majority of posters on what can be a very emotive topic. Many (most?) seem to me to understand the issues and avoid imposing political prejudices of their own to dirty the debate and divert it far from the important issues.

And then I read crap like the above (bold). You, Sir, clearly have absolutely no idea about what the average Prod/Unionist thinks about this kind of thing and instead project your own particular prejudices onto us. I strongly suspect that you have never sat down and calmly discussed such issues with people from the other community, but instead get your "information" solely from bucketmouths like Jamie Bwyson on the Nolan Show.

Speaking for myself, but also for people from my community to whom I do speak, I can tell you that the average Prod is actually like the average Gael on this forum - occasionally bigoted, but FAR more often reasonable, and most of all not that bothered about what the other lot are up to, so long as it's not actually in their face when going about there day-to-day business. And in the context of Casement, that last isn't likely to happen, since none of us live on the Andersonstown Road. In other words, it is up to the GAA to get the finger out and build the stadium and if/when they finally do, it simply will not register with our lot.

P.S. As for your assertion: "I've said many times if this scenario was Windsor Park or Ravenhill it would have been already built", how bone-headed do you have to be to say such a thing? The simple fact is, it's not going to be Windsor or Ravenhill, indeed was never going to be, since they were both built on time and within budget, without the need for anyone at Stormont to hold the hand of the IFA/IRFU and get them out of some unholy mess they themselves created!

[Evil Genius]

You sir are talking sh1te. I'm not sticking nothing up to the Prods, I keep posting it's being blocked because it's for the GAA and the Unionist/Loyalist community would rather die than see this stadium built, that's a fact. I can't see what's wrong with making a factual statement like that. I've said many times if this scenario was Windsor Park or Ravenhill it would have been already built (The GAA didn't cover themselves in glory with this either). That's my opinion and you're entitled to yours...Sin e.
Ohh and why would you think the Ulster Council would bill every club for that money?. I'm hoping you were taking the P155

Can you show me exactly where the Prods blocked Casement previously? Like specifically where it was ready to happen and didn't because of themmuns? Stormont (including the unionists) green lighted the funding including giving the GAA a share that was almost double what the IFA and IRFU got. The local residents blocked the planning and it fell through. Then it turned out the GAAs plans were unsafe and didn't pass HandS. By the time Mark Durkan of the SDLP bulldozed the new plans through Stormont had collapsed and the funding was on hiatus. Instead of drawing up a revised sensible plan that could proceed as soon as Stormont got off the ground, the GAA stuck to a stadium plan that they don't have any money for.

Ah now, trileacman, we can't be having that sort of stuff here! Sure isn't it spoiling illdecide's rant and if there's one thing he clearly needs to get him started in the morning, it's a good oul rant about Themmuns. 

P.S. Very good post btw.

[weareros]

You sir are talking sh1te. I'm not sticking nothing up to the Prods, I keep posting it's being blocked because it's for the GAA and the Unionist/Loyalist community would rather die than see this stadium built, that's a fact. I can't see what's wrong with making a factual statement like that. I've said many times if this scenario was Windsor Park or Ravenhill it would have been already built (The GAA didn't cover themselves in glory with this either). That's my opinion and you're entitled to yours...Sin e.
Ohh and why would you think the Ulster Council would bill every club for that money?. I'm hoping you were taking the P155

Can you show me exactly where the Prods blocked Casement previously? Like specifically where it was ready to happen and didn't because of themmuns? Stormont (including the unionists) green lighted the funding including giving the GAA a share that was almost double what the IFA and IRFU got. The local residents blocked the planning and it fell through. Then it turned out the GAAs plans were unsafe and didn't pass HandS. By the time Mark Durkan of the SDLP bulldozed the new plans through Stormont had collapsed and the funding was on hiatus. Instead of drawing up a revised sensible plan that could proceed as soon as Stormont got off the ground, the GAA stuck to a stadium plan that they don't have any money for.

One correction on that. NI soccer and GAA were granted equivalent amounts by Stormont in 2011. It's just that the soccer allocation was to be divided between Windsor upgrade (for which the IFA contributed nothing near what the GAA are expected to contribute) and Irish League clubs.

While all those planning delays and resident objections are responsible for the initial Casement project not being built in time with that initial 62 million, when it was submitted as an official stadium for Euro 28 signed off by both British and Irish Government, that's when Unionist objections and Unionist Press went into overdrive. That was extraordinary for a number of reasons. The Irish government has allocated billions to projects in North at expense of Irish taxpayer - as indeed they should after neglecting nationalist community for a century. The message was clear from Unionist politicians that British taxpayer should not be funding Casement Park to be a UEFA standards stadium. Health and everything was brought into it as if Casement was responsible for dire state of health services. You'd swear also that Nationalists are not taxpayers to British coffers. On top of that, when UK sign up to host international events like the Olympics and indeed Euro 2028, billions are used to fund infrastructure. You can be sure there will be no objections from anyone when billions go into UK hosting the Womens World Cup. But Casement was targeted, simply because it was a GAA stadium in Andytown. And both Tories and Labour then weaseled out on a commitment they signed off on for Euro 28 to the delight of some (we know who they are).

[smelmoth]

Casement could host:

Antrim MFC/MHC finals
Antrim club JFC/IFC/SFC semifinals and finals
Ulster club matches and finals
AI club quarter & semi finals
MacRory and other schools competition  finals
Antrim football & hurling league fixtures
Ulster SFC matches, semi-finals & final
Joe McDonagh/Leinster hurling/AI hurling fixtures

Those alone are not enough and you'd be trying to incorporate as many double headers as possible.

I'd be exploring every single avenue at this stage, major sponsorship, naming rights, partnership with BCC, Féile, etc.

I think NFL is a non runner but there's still potential with concerts. People keep pointing to PuC and lack of concerts while forgetting Cork is much smaller than Belfast, less accessible and less attractive for major concerts.

There's always scope for soccer, rugby, Aussie/international rules down the line.

I agree with you that the GAA fixture opportunity could be limited. I agree that every other revenue line should be explored. I agree that NFL is a pipe dream.

The opportunity for concerts should not be presumed. If you are going to rely on it you need some basis of confidence. What is the confidence on concerts? Has a promoter indicated that something could be brought to Casement that isn't otherwise being brought to Belfast? I haven't seen any evidence of this. Happy to be directed to it.

The soccer and rugby angles are very channeling.


Someone mentioned the athletic grounds in Armagh. I think that is the template we will (and should) end up with. A very good stand, max out the standing capacity (which will be much bigger than Armagh) and a roof down one side. If the attendance exceeds the seated capacity more than 4 times a year I'd be amazed.

[twohands!!!]

People keep pointing to PuC and lack of concerts while forgetting Cork is much smaller than Belfast, less accessible and less attractive for major concerts.

Belfast is far more similar to Cork than compared to Dublin in terms of attracting concerts.

This is what the CEO of Cork GAA said a few month's back at a speech in PuC

"Concerts in this building are challenging because we're a mid size venue. We're too big for Live at the Marquee, we're too small for Coldplay. We talk to the promoters every day we are seeing now if we can move the dial a little bit and go into smaller events and use car parks and use 4G and put marquees up on the pitch and so on.

"So lest anyone think we are idle, you are at the discretion of the major acts' touring diaries; it's not your diary it's theirs, and we play games for a significant period of the year. Concerts are the only thing that will move the dial on debt here. Everything else really is to keep the lights on."

PuC has no concerts this year, one Bruce Springsteen concert last year and none the year before that.

There is the possibility that Casement is much more successful at attracting concerts compared to PuC but the possibility isn't that great. I haven't heard any sort of decent argument why the Ulster Council would be much more successful at convincing promoters to hold concerts in Casememt compared to the Cork County Board convincing promoters to pay to use PuC.

[trileacman]

You sir are talking sh1te. I'm not sticking nothing up to the Prods, I keep posting it's being blocked because it's for the GAA and the Unionist/Loyalist community would rather die than see this stadium built, that's a fact. I can't see what's wrong with making a factual statement like that. I've said many times if this scenario was Windsor Park or Ravenhill it would have been already built (The GAA didn't cover themselves in glory with this either). That's my opinion and you're entitled to yours...Sin e.
Ohh and why would you think the Ulster Council would bill every club for that money?. I'm hoping you were taking the P155

Can you show me exactly where the Prods blocked Casement previously? Like specifically where it was ready to happen and didn't because of themmuns? Stormont (including the unionists) green lighted the funding including giving the GAA a share that was almost double what the IFA and IRFU got. The local residents blocked the planning and it fell through. Then it turned out the GAAs plans were unsafe and didn't pass HandS. By the time Mark Durkan of the SDLP bulldozed the new plans through Stormont had collapsed and the funding was on hiatus. Instead of drawing up a revised sensible plan that could proceed as soon as Stormont got off the ground, the GAA stuck to a stadium plan that they don't have any money for.

One correction on that. NI soccer and GAA were granted equivalent amounts by Stormont in 2011. It's just that the soccer allocation was to be divided between Windsor upgrade (for which the IFA contributed nothing near what the GAA are expected to contribute) and Irish League clubs.

While all those planning delays and resident objections are responsible for the initial Casement project not being built in time with that initial 62 million, when it was submitted as an official stadium for Euro 28 signed off by both British and Irish Government, that's when Unionist objections and Unionist Press went into overdrive. That was extraordinary for a number of reasons. The Irish government has allocated billions to projects in North at expense of Irish taxpayer - as indeed they should after neglecting nationalist community for a century. The message was clear from Unionist politicians that British taxpayer should not be funding Casement Park to be a UEFA standards stadium. Health and everything was brought into it as if Casement was responsible for dire state of health services. You'd swear also that Nationalists are not taxpayers to British coffers. On top of that, when UK sign up to host international events like the Olympics and indeed Euro 2028, billions are used to fund infrastructure. You can be sure there will be no objections from anyone when billions go into UK hosting the Womens World Cup. But Casement was targeted, simply because it was a GAA stadium in Andytown. And both Tories and Labour then weaseled out on a commitment they signed off on for Euro 28 to the delight of some (we know who they are).

The Euro bid was proposed by the FA, FAI, IFA, SFA and the Welsh FA so really it was their plan to host games at Casement more so than the British government. It should be noted too that it was the IFA hierarchy who were willing to have NI's games at Casement.

No harm but they won't have to spend hundreds of millions to build soccer stadiums for the Women's world Cup. After the Tory supported bid for the Euros was accepted the Labour government had a choice, give between 200-300 million to the GAA to build Casement or get an already built English stadium to replace it (at almost negligible cost).

It's unfair to characterise the British decision was principally down to sectarianism. We all know they haven't a shilling and they had a choice between spending 200 million and hosting the euros or spending nothing and still hosting the euros. Casement would have been the only UK stadium they would have had to support with major finance (the rest have all already been built). It's not hard to see why they made the decision they did. Of course the troglodytes of the DUP and TUV weren't happy about Casement for sectarian reasons but to say they swayed the decision of Labour to not give hundreds of millions to Casement is rubbish.

[LC]

People keep pointing to PuC and lack of concerts while forgetting Cork is much smaller than Belfast, less accessible and less attractive for major concerts.

Belfast is far more similar to Cork than compared to Dublin in terms of attracting concerts.

This is what the CEO of Cork GAA said a few month's back at a speech in PuC

"Concerts in this building are challenging because we're a mid size venue. We're too big for Live at the Marquee, we're too small for Coldplay. We talk to the promoters every day we are seeing now if we can move the dial a little bit and go into smaller events and use car parks and use 4G and put marquees up on the pitch and so on.

"So lest anyone think we are idle, you are at the discretion of the major acts' touring diaries; it's not your diary it's theirs, and we play games for a significant period of the year. Concerts are the only thing that will move the dial on debt here. Everything else really is to keep the lights on."

PuC has no concerts this year, one Bruce Springsteen concert last year and none the year before that.

There is the possibility that Casement is much more successful at attracting concerts compared to PuC but the possibility isn't that great. I haven't heard any sort of decent argument why the Ulster Council would be much more successful at convincing promoters to hold concerts in Casememt compared to the Cork County Board convincing promoters to pay to use PuC.

Kneecap and the Wolfe Tones would be the height of it.

[bannside]

Bit harsh. Would be a better venue than Boucher Rd which holds numerous outdoor concerts every year.

[gallsman]

Bit harsh. Would be a better venue than Boucher Rd which holds numerous outdoor concerts every year.

Hard to say from the promoter's perspective. Boucher Rd is council owned, shite land. Dirt cheap to host a concert.

[smelmoth]

And first cheap to insure. There comes a point when a shiny new stadium becomes a negative in the concert game.

[bannside]

Don't know enough about insurance, but I'd say public liability insurance runs for the whole year, not on an individual basis.

Plus, open to correction but maybe you get an extra 10k into a stadium, especially if the main pitch is being used. That's a lot of £.

[Saffrongael]

The Cork chairman on concerts


"Concerts in this building are challenging because we're a mid size venue. We're too big for Live at the Marquee, we're too small for Coldplay. We talk to the promoters every day we are seeing now if we can move the dial a little bit and go into smaller events and use car parks and use 4G and put marquees up on the pitch and so on.

"So lest anyone think we are idle, you are at the discretion of the major acts' touring diaries; it's not your diary it's theirs, and we play games for a significant period of the year. Concerts are the only thing that will move the dial on debt here. Everything else really is to keep the lights on."

[weareros]

The Euro bid was proposed by the FA, FAI, IFA, SFA and the Welsh FA so really it was their plan to host games at Casement more so than the British government. It should be noted too that it was the IFA hierarchy who were willing to have NI's games at Casement.

Sunak and Varadkar signed the final proposal that included Casement. The final submission to UEFA is still viewable online (although slow to load).
https://ukandirelanduefaeuro2028bid.bylder.io/?link_id=7#!/admin/slideshow/presentation/3/chapter/2/slide/1

Of course the troglodytes of the DUP and TUV weren't happy about Casement for sectarian reasons but to say they swayed the decision of Labour to not give hundreds of millions to Casement is rubbish.

That may be, but once Unionists, and NI Supporters and may others made Casement a subject of controversy (which they did with a zealous intensity), it made it easier for the UK government to pull out. It began with Sunak talking about 2.6 billion in socio-economic benefits to the UK, and ended with no money to renovate Casement.

[p3427977]

An NFL game