FRC Feedback - poll on new rules - which do you like least?

[David McKeown]

Just wow.

FRC deserve plaudits beyond words

Wobbler can I ask as part of a genuine discussion why you are in so in favour of the rules?  For me games are only exciting in the last 10 mins.  Even yesterdays game I never really got the impression Armagh could win until extra time as opposed to last year which I felt could go either way throughout.  Coupled with that there was about 9 minutes or more of just pure keep ball.  I found that very boring.  Even the Leinster final today I felt the same.

David as I don't believe you're a WUM, it's pretty clear that you had settled on a position on the new rules ahead of this season, and are steadfastly unwilling to adapt or evolve that position. Indeed you would seem to be wilfully interpreting visual information in a polar opposite way to everyone else. These aren't even "takes" you're making, for "takes" involve spotting an incident or two and extrapolating a subjective assessment of why it's taking place. You are, bluntly and deliberately, looking at football through a prism.

I think the same complaint could be levelled at you Wobbler. Did you find the end to the Ulster final more exciting and entertaining than in previous years where teams would at least try to score more when the game was reaching the conclusion?  I certainly didn't. The same with the Leinster final today.

What about in Connacht? What was improved compared to last year? There were more scores last year, there were more lead changes and the match was closer.

What is it I am wilfully misinterpreting about these things I am seeing.

If we go into the detail of it and I accept it's subjective but when at the games I don't see the benefit of the rules. It's a nonsense having to see players hover around the artificial force field of the half way line when the ball is mere yards from them.

A great score after a great team move that goes the length of the field is suddenly worth less than an uncontested kick from inside the 50 from the hands won because an attacker ran back 5 yards too far or a manager kicked a flag or my least favourite there was accidental contact following a player winning a kick out just outside their own 50. To me that devalues the great score. What am I wilfully misseeing about that?

Matches are boring for long parts. Teams tend to get a lead then the other team attempts to claw it back. There's considerably less lead changes than before.  Some matches look more like training sessions. We've seen plenty of games where teams try to kill time when against the wind by playing keep ball because it's considerably more beneficial to kill time against the wind than it is to score and potentially give the other team possession. Similarly as we've seen this year teams try to keep the ball at the end of matches to run down the clock. There's no excitement in that to me. What am I wilfully mis seeing about that?

Scores were hard earned last year they are considerably easier this year. I don't see how that makes the sport better. Again what am I not seeing.

I do accept we have had exciting finishes to games this year but we had plenty over recent years too. I also think a lot of the reason for the exciting matches is we have groups of teams that are closer in ability than any time over the last ten years. There's very little between the top 8 or 10 teams in the country that's going to result in better matches than when we had a clear gap from Dublin to Kerry then a clear gap to Mayo etc etc. So I feel within the press there's somewhat of a confirmation bias going on.

My point is I've yet to see how the rules have benefitted the game with the exception of the solo and go.

So maybe what I am missing is what exactly is the benefit of the rules?  I am cognisant of the fact that most people I talk to at matches don't like most if not all the rules. Whereas most people I know who watch on tv seem to like most but certainly not all of them.

The kick out rule seems unfair. It allows teams to create purple patches. I'd love to know how many scores come off winning the opposition kick out versus what comes off winning your own. I also don't know why we are punishing the team taking the kick out. Possession should be in favour of that team and not merely a lottery.

So what I'm asking is what exactly is it about the rules that has benefited the game?   

[Milltown Row2]

Look, there are positives and negatives with all the rules, anyone saying they are a huge success is going a bit over the top..

I've ref'd plenty and I've noticed nothing massively different to previous years.

Some levels of scoring is similar.

As a ref, the best is the dissent rule which had nullified the crap ya get

[trileacman]

Look, there are positives and negatives with all the rules, anyone saying they are a huge success is going a bit over the top..

I've ref'd plenty and I've noticed nothing massively different to previous years.

Some levels of scoring is similar.

As a ref, the best is the dissent rule which had nullified the crap ya get

Yis c***ts deserve every bit of it.

[The Trap]

Sensible calm post David.

I agree with a lot of what you have been saying for the last few months.

The arc on both sides of the pitch is what I dislike the most.

At the end of the Leinster final Louth got 2 points from a dubious free which effectively won them the game and then I went to a club game this evening and 2 such calls went in favour of one team to win them the game.

I have said it before but I would love to see a game played now without the arc.

[David McKeown]

Look, there are positives and negatives with all the rules, anyone saying they are a huge success is going a bit over the top..

I've ref'd plenty and I've noticed nothing massively different to previous years.

Some levels of scoring is similar.

As a ref, the best is the dissent rule which had nullified the crap ya get

Well that's one positive but I still think there's better ways of achieving that.

[Milltown Row2]

Look, there are positives and negatives with all the rules, anyone saying they are a huge success is going a bit over the top..

I've ref'd plenty and I've noticed nothing massively different to previous years.

Some levels of scoring is similar.

As a ref, the best is the dissent rule which had nullified the crap ya get

Well that's one positive but I still think there's better ways of achieving that.

I'm not sure there is if I'm being honest.. I'm zero tolerance to it even way before the 50m rule came in and it never stopped it, I'd go further to include the supporters lol..

Although I love a bitta banter I'm bored of the, they always foul us and we never win a free..

I also hate a player telling me that's a card, sorry, that'll be a hop ball now

[Truthsayer]

Just wow.

FRC deserve plaudits beyond words

Exactly that! Ulster & Leinster finals epic excitement and action... very entertaining U20 All Ireland semi-final.
Two things in life I've learned: it's OK to be wrong and it's OK to change your mind. Not easy for some people 
Gaelic football has been saved 🙌

[Rossfan]

Well it's much improved anyway.

[imtommygunn]

Personally I think it's definitely improved a lot though I mostly watch on tv these days so I find the comment about people at games not generally sharing the same opinion as people who watch on tv.

It is looking like this will do the usual kind of debated and the you are either strongly for me or strongly against me and there can be nowhere near the middle 

[Saffron_sam20]

Look, there are positives and negatives with all the rules, anyone saying they are a huge success is going a bit over the top..

I've ref'd plenty and I've noticed nothing massively different to previous years.

Some levels of scoring is similar.

As a ref, the best is the dissent rule which had nullified the crap ya get

Well that's one positive but I still think there's better ways of achieving that.

I'm not sure there is if I'm being honest.. I'm zero tolerance to it even way before the 50m rule came in and it never stopped it, I'd go further to include the supporters lol..

Although I love a bitta banter I'm bored of the, they always foul us and we never win a free..

I also hate a player telling me that's a card, sorry, that'll be a hop ball now

10 meters and a yellow card, not too many do it then. I just think it really cheapens the worth of scores when the ball is being brought up 50m. It really annoys me when a player catches a kick out comes down runs into someone and ball moved 50m its not good.

I've said before, keep the 3 up and solo and go and the game would have been much better, i was against the 3 up at the start but it does open the game up. By having it you really don't need the 2pt, the 40m arc is just encouraging players to play round it and try get 2pt. I'd rather with that space they try work goals more but why would you when the shot from 40m (which has been shown any county and most club players can do with ease) gets you 2/3rds the point value.

[David McKeown]

Look, there are positives and negatives with all the rules, anyone saying they are a huge success is going a bit over the top..

I've ref'd plenty and I've noticed nothing massively different to previous years.

Some levels of scoring is similar.

As a ref, the best is the dissent rule which had nullified the crap ya get

Well that's one positive but I still think there's better ways of achieving that.

I'm not sure there is if I'm being honest.. I'm zero tolerance to it even way before the 50m rule came in and it never stopped it, I'd go further to include the supporters lol..

Although I love a bitta banter I'm bored of the, they always foul us and we never win a free..

I also hate a player telling me that's a card, sorry, that'll be a hop ball now

10 meters and a yellow card, not too many do it then. I just think it really cheapens the worth of scores when the ball is being brought up 50m. It really annoys me when a player catches a kick out comes down runs into someone and ball moved 50m its not good.

I've said before, keep the 3 up and solo and go and the game would have been much better, i was against the 3 up at the start but it does open the game up. By having it you really don't need the 2pt, the 40m arc is just encouraging players to play round it and try get 2pt. I'd rather with that space they try work goals more but why would you when the shot from 40m (which has been shown any county and most club players can do with ease) gets you 2/3rds the point value.

I have said a few times on here I'd like to have seen one or the other tried between the 3 up and the two point arc but not both. There are problems with both for me mind but I'd like to see them separately before I could make a definitive call on them.

[Captain Scarlet]

The 3 up and Tap and Go are great.

Kids grew up playing Go Games with the sections so it will be more natural for them through the years.

Im from Kildare and I do enjoy the longer kickouts - but it might be different without Feely!

I think the handing back and obstruction is messy as lads are simply running into opponents.

The dissent is a bit much.

I'm 50 50 on 2 pointers but I don't like them for frees.

[donelli]

The new rules have been a badly needed. The 3 up has gave better shape to the game. touch and go is good and the keeper restrictions are brilliant. kick outs are great too.
1 rule i cant have though is the new one introduced where a player who catches a ball from the kickout cant be tackled for up to 8m etc. It not natural to see players step out of there way for what is normally a good midfield contest.
No idea why this was introduced as the catcher always had the option to call a mark if he wanted space to kick it.
The penalty is very severe and i've seen several club matches where the the ball receiver basically ran straight at his opponent and was rewarded with a free 50m towards goal.   

[David McKeown]

The new rules have been a badly needed. The 3 up has gave better shape to the game. touch and go is good and the keeper restrictions are brilliant. kick outs are great too.
1 rule i cant have though is the new one introduced where a player who catches a ball from the kickout cant be tackled for up to 8m etc. It not natural to see players step out of there way for what is normally a good midfield contest.
No idea why this was introduced as the catcher always had the option to call a mark if he wanted space to kick it.
The penalty is very severe and i've seen several club matches where the the ball receiver basically ran straight at his opponent and was rewarded with a free 50m towards goal.   

I dont agree with you generally but your opinion is obviously as equally valid as my own.  I do think though this highlights an under discussed issue within the media.  Perhaps I am wrong but anyone I talk to about the rules who likes them always says I like most of them but this one and there seems to be no clear consensus on which rule comes after the but.  How do we deal that at the end of the year?  How are the FRC to decide which of the rules to keep and which to ditch? What might the knock on consequences be of ditching one or two? I think we still need more time to look at these and I think pre and post season competitions over many years should be used to trial rules which if successful could then be introduced gradually.  This whole raft of changes every 5 years I dont see as ever being good for the game.  I know that (ironically) requires a rule change but I think its a necessary one moving forward.

For example I really despised the goal keeper in their own half rule but the tweak to the 3 v 3 rule addressed a lot of my issues with it.  I don't think that was an intended consequence of the rule tweak of the 3 v 3 rule but I think it made a big difference.  It meant an attacking team could no longer out number a defensive team in that half of the pitch particularly on defensive free kicks where the attacking team could have two extra players effectively in the area so it is now considerably less important to have to have access to a keeper.  What impact would other rules being removed have on the ones being retained? If the impact is negative are we stuck with what we get untested for 4 years?

[Milltown Row2]

The new rules have been a badly needed. The 3 up has gave better shape to the game. touch and go is good and the keeper restrictions are brilliant. kick outs are great too.
1 rule i cant have though is the new one introduced where a player who catches a ball from the kickout cant be tackled for up to 8m etc. It not natural to see players step out of there way for what is normally a good midfield contest.
No idea why this was introduced as the catcher always had the option to call a mark if he wanted space to kick it.
The penalty is very severe and i've seen several club matches where the the ball receiver basically ran straight at his opponent and was rewarded with a free 50m towards goal.   

Its not a new rule though, the old Mark which this is, was always the case he couldn't be tackled for 4 meters and not 8m as you have stated..

I'm hearing this a lot in games and slightly confused as to why people think its new. the only difference is the player is given automatically that time after the catch without having to put his hand up, the ref still blows for the mark (if the player raises his hand he has to take the mark as normal) as he did before, but now players are backing away as its dissent if they tackle, that now brings 50meters rather than the original 13m had been tackled.