FRC Feedback - poll on new rules - which do you like least?

[Rossfan]

From the Irish Times

The long-awaited verdict from Junior B football is in. These new rules are ... pretty bloody good. I've played two league games in this new dawn in the last three weeks, and the game is slightly better, slightly faster, slightly more vertical, and slightly more fun to play. And all those minor improvements add up to a major impact.

Our game last Sunday morning was on grass after our previous league game, and our only challenge game before the start of the season had been played on AstroTurf. So this felt like the first "real" game of football we'd played. The weather was fine, there wasn't much of a wind, the pitch was decent. It was as good a circumstance as you could hope for as we tiptoed into March.

The first question you're still inclined to ask before the game was – have they marked out the arc? And they had, of course. We should probably take that as read now.

We told our fullback lines and full-forward lines that they were in charge of the 3-up, 3-back breaches – basically if you crossed the line you'd better make bloody sure someone else is replacing you in your half of the field. This seemed like more hassle than it was worth, so I decided (for the good of the team, obviously) that I wasn't venturing anywhere near the halfway line from my spot at full forward. This, it should be noted, did not represent a major sea-change in my thinking.


The solo-and-go was also encouraged, but with caveats. Don't do it anywhere near the opposition goals (let the freetaker take care of those), and maybe lift your head for a second before you set off soloing at what will be, let's face it, a sedate pace.

The new throw-in, with one midfielder jumping and the other midfielder standing on one sideline, caused us some minor confusion as our starting midfielder hadn't actually arrived yet (according to the WhatsApp group he was doing "a run to the airport" ... even though he's not a taxi driver), but we found a victim for that; a sub took off his bib and wandered into our half-forward line to replace him, and we were away.

The solo and go was immediately in use, and at this level it appears it is most often used in the half-back line or at midfield, the caveat being that every player has to be told by four different team-mates and two selectors to "solo and f**kin' go, will ye." These verbal cues are constant.

The solo-and-go is intimately linked to the rules over dissent. Previously every free, anywhere on the pitch, was an immediate invitation for everyone within 20 yards to offer their tuppence to the referee, to their team-mates and to their opponents. The mere fact that someone can set off running straight away after the whistle just cuts all that nonsense out. Even setting aside the 50-metre punishment for dissent to the referee the game was immediately far more enjoyable to play in.

Our referee on Sunday morning was absolutely on top of the rules, talked the players through his decisions, regardless of whether they were the captain or not, and punished dissent whenever he felt that interaction crossed the line. That is absolutely as it should be.

It has already fundamentally changed the way players talk to the referee. Players are at a loss on occasion to know what a free was given for, they need the referee to explain it, and they appreciate the communication. The referee has the power to punish anything that oversteps the mark, and a player doesn't have the time to argue over a ref's decision in any case, unless he wants to be left floundering by a solo-and-go.

Our opponents hit one exceptional two-pointer, we turned around a five-point deficit without the help of any shots from outside the arc to win by three in the end. There were no advanced marks, but as the ground firms up and players get a little fitter and sharper they may well have an impact all the way down the grades.

There was one 3-up, 3-back breach spotted by the referee, but as you play the games you become aware of what the story is with this rule, and how it is possible to police it at club level. The referee isn't expected to call each minor breach of that rule – he can't. If you're making no material impact on the game the ref probably isn't going to see you. But if you are making a material impact then you deserve to be punished, and you will be.

I spoke briefly to the referee afterwards, thanking him for talking us through the game to the extent that he had, and it was clear he had enjoyed himself as well. An end to the constant relitigation of every decision they make must be such a joy.

I wouldn't want to overstate it – many of the rule changes were aimed at changing the intercounty game and the top end of the club game. As you went down the grades the impact of massed defences and four-minute spells of possession was obviously going to be less pronounced. But the problem of indiscipline, the casual abuse of referees – those can get more pronounced the lower down you go, not less. That revolution may not be televised but it is nevertheless revolutionary.

[SaffronSports]

Some changes as per Irish Examiner.

A player who makes a kick-out mark can play on immediately and not be challenged for four metres. If the player is illegally challenged in that space a free kick shall be awarded 50 metres more advantageous than the position of the original mark up to the opponents' 13m line. There is also the option of bringing it back for a two-point free attempt outside the 40m arc.An advantage has accrued if a point or a goal is scored. If no advantage has accrued to the team of the player awarded the mark, the referee will signal "no advantage gained" and the ball will be taken back to the point of the mark.A team must have at least four players in their half of the field, which may include the goalkeeper, and at least three outfield players in the opposition half. A breach of this rule does not occur when the breach has been unintentional, the player(s) are within 4m of the halfway line, are not interfering with play or with an opponent or not gaining an advantage.The removal of the word "directly" from the definition of a two-point score being played "over the bar between the posts... kicked by a player who has at least one foot on or outside the 40m arc and without the ball having been touched by another player".A breach of the three-up rule in carrying, receiving or intercepting the ball or attempting to do so is a free kick from where the player crossed the halfway line.A misconduct at games infraction by a team official to cost his/her team a 20m free as opposed to a 13m free and the free can be brought out to the 40m arc for a two-point attempt.

[Milltown Row2]

In simple terms?

[Smokin Joe]

In simple terms?

Assuming they get passed next week:

1 - Teams must now keep 4 back (may include the GK) and 3 up, with no exceptions when you are down a man.
2 - If the above rule is breached accidentally by a player just being 2m over the halfway line and isn't interfering in play then no free is given
3 - Explicitly says that unless you score from an attacking mark you get the ball brought back for the mark

[on the sideline]

In simple terms?

Assuming they get passed next week:

1 - Teams must now keep 4 back (may include the GK) and 3 up, with no exceptions when you are down a man.
2 - If the above rule is breached accidentally by a player just being 2m over the halfway line and isn't interfering in play then no free is given
3 - Explicitly says that unless you score from an attacking mark you get the ball brought back for the mark

Some changes as per Irish Examiner.

A player who makes a kick-out mark can play on immediately and not be challenged for four metres. If the player is illegally challenged in that space a free kick shall be awarded 50 metres more advantageous than the position of the original mark up to the opponents' 13m line. There is also the option of bringing it back for a two-point free attempt outside the 40m arc.An advantage has accrued if a point or a goal is scored. If no advantage has accrued to the team of the player awarded the mark, the referee will signal "no advantage gained" and the ball will be taken back to the point of the mark.A team must have at least four players in their half of the field, which may include the goalkeeper, and at least three outfield players in the opposition half. A breach of this rule does not occur when the breach has been unintentional, the player(s) are within 4m of the halfway line, are not interfering with play or with an opponent or not gaining an advantage.The removal of the word "directly" from the definition of a two-point score being played "over the bar between the posts... kicked by a player who has at least one foot on or outside the 40m arc and without the ball having been touched by another player".A breach of the three-up rule in carrying, receiving or intercepting the ball or attempting to do so is a free kick from where the player crossed the halfway line.A misconduct at games infraction by a team official to cost his/her team a 20m free as opposed to a 13m free and the free can be brought out to the 40m arc for a two-point attempt.

FFS what are they doing? They're making an absolute balls of this.
Solo and go, no pass back to goalkeeper, punish dissent and keep the black card rule. Either the 3 up or the 2 point arc. No need for any other shite. When are they going to stop tinkering with this. The more they do the bigger mess they're making of it.
How on earth is a referee at club level going to be able to watch if there's 4 back and 3 up? He's enough to be watching. They're already ignoring the 3 up/back, as in if we can't see it we can't blow it. Some mental gymnastics now expected to police this new update.

[Saffron_sam20]

In simple terms?

Assuming they get passed next week:

1 - Teams must now keep 4 back (may include the GK) and 3 up, with no exceptions when you are down a man.
2 - If the above rule is breached accidentally by a player just being 2m over the halfway line and isn't interfering in play then no free is given
3 - Explicitly says that unless you score from an attacking mark you get the ball brought back for the mark

Fair play to them, I didn't think they could balls it up more than they already have but here we are

[GTP]

If a rule isn't working they need to get rid of it otherwise someone is guessing that the ammendment is better. No trials no time to find any flaws and no full proof method of deciding if the change makes things better.

[oakleaflad]

No issues at all with these changes to be honest.

In fact I'd have asked for Rule 1 and 2 in those simple terms above to be implemented. Should make things a much better and less frustrating watch.

[SouthOfThe Bann]

In simple terms?

Assuming they get passed next week:

1 - Teams must now keep 4 back (may include the GK) and 3 up, with no exceptions when you are down a man.
2 - If the above rule is breached accidentally by a player just being 2m over the halfway line and isn't interfering in play then no free is given
3 - Explicitly says that unless you score from an attacking mark you get the ball brought back for the mark

Fair play to them, I didn't think they could balls it up more than they already have but here we are

But sure you have to tweak things not everything is black and white.

The 3 up rule is now similar to the offside rule in soccer.

Its 2 players for the offside rule in soccer its just the goalie is usually always in his goal

[Mario]

Will be interesting to see the impact of the 4 back. Basically the goalkeeper is treated like the 3 defenders, they can go if someone drops back. Given there is no numerical advantage now you'd imagine you'd rather one of your outfield players attack over your goalkeeper. Id say Morgan and Rafferty will still attack occasionally. Most others won't. Takes a bit of an advantage away from teams that used the tactic

[thewobbler]

Will be interesting to see the impact of the 4 back. Basically the goalkeeper is treated like the 3 defenders, they can go if someone drops back. Given there is no numerical advantage now you'd imagine you'd rather one of your outfield players attack over your goalkeeper. Id say Morgan and Rafferty will still attack occasionally. Most others won't. Takes a bit of an advantage away from teams that used the tactic

It's interesting that they went for 4 and 3 rather 3 and 2. And I don't mean that's it's wrong. Just that it could throw up some curiosities.

For example:

This is pretty much the end for the overlapping corner back. If you're listed in positions 1-4, then your responsibility is to man marking and that new line. Nothing else. Obviously at senior level where there's more coaching and tactics, it'll be more likely that players 5-7 will swap in and out based on the game scenario. But within 8-10 years, we will see career full backs again ie lads who learned from an early age to never leave the square.

The other one being that the tactic de jour of the 90s/00s ie bringing a corner forward out as a third midfielder / sweeper / free man, is also dead in the water. Which is going to cause us juvenile club coaches a few headaches, as there's no longer a simple formation shift to target the opposition's best player.

I'm completely undecided as to whether these are good developments or not. But I'm leaning towards good. A less tactical game is generally a good thing, and as a former fat corner forward I kind of have to be on board with curtailing how many 100m chases a forward should have to undertake in a game .

[rory]

One tactic that might come out of this is a team in the lead will send their keeper forward and drop a defender. You now have a 4 v 3 in your own half and all 4 can receive the ball making it easier to hold possession, as was the case before the new rules.

[Spiderlegs]

One tactic that might come out of this is a team in the lead will send their keeper forward and drop a defender. You now have a 4 v 3 in your own half and all 4 can receive the ball making it easier to hold possession, as was the case before the new rules.

This is currently the case anyway just with slightly different numbers

[twohands!!!]

One tactic that might come out of this is a team in the lead will send their keeper forward and drop a defender. You now have a 4 v 3 in your own half and all 4 can receive the ball making it easier to hold possession, as was the case before the new rules.

This is currently the case anyway just with slightly different numbers

Under the current rules the keeper can only received a pass in the square whereas the 4th defender could receive the ball anywhere in their own half.  Unless things are changed this gives way too much advantage to those teams who want to play keep ball/waste time in their own half.

[Smokin Joe]

One tactic that might come out of this is a team in the lead will send their keeper forward and drop a defender. You now have a 4 v 3 in your own half and all 4 can receive the ball making it easier to hold possession, as was the case before the new rules.

The flaw in that is that the other team will not leave themselves outnumbered for too long.  3 is just the minimum they must keep in their attacking half