2024 Joe McDonagh Cup

[Giovanni]

The issue is not that Joe Mac finalists are getting to play in the "real championship". The issue is that they are being asked to do it 6/7 days after the final itself. If that continues, it's not hard to see what the trend is going to be.

I do agree, though, that the gap is narrowing. I feel that if Laois has played Wexford in the Joe Mac final, it would have been a very close game.

[blueandwhite1]

I agree with the last post. Laois at their best might not beat Wexford but would have been a lot closer if they had another week's break. They looked jaded.

[clonadmad]

...hurling "experts" from Munster counties who think we have no business being here and would much prefer if Galway and Waterford were playing Cork and Wexford today. Don't forget that last year they attempted to remove the link between the Joe McDonagh finalists and the All Ireland series...

Bastards

Since it came in with the round robin in 2018

There has been 13 of these preliminary quarter finals

The Joe MacDonagh team has won just 1

The winning margin before yesterday was an average of 22 points

I'm all for the promotion of hurling but Joe Mac teams playing 3rd in Leinster or Munster 6/7 days after the final is a complete mismatch and waste of time

The Joe MacDonagh should be a standalone competition with more media coverage,2 semi finals and spread out so that the final is the curtain raiser to the All Ireland Final

I disagree.
Joe McDonagh is getting stronger every year.
The lower ranked teams in Leinster performed better this year than they have done. That would need to continue for a few more years before you could say it was a trend!

It's great that winning it allows you to progress and get a no lose game.
It's great that it's at home.
Had Laois won last week and been playing Leinster No. 3 yesterday at home I reckon there would have been a huge crowd.
That could be the situation next year.

The Leinster/Munster No. 3 team comes in rested.
The Joe Mc finalists are at home but playing two weeks in a row.
I think that's balanced and appropriate.

The JMcD is a stand alone competition.
It should get more coverage absolutely.
It needs a sponsor too.
Don't agree that there should be semi finals.
It needs to stay cut throat.

1 win with some unmerciful hammerings for the Joe Mc Teams in 13 games suggests otherwise

It's like putting the finalists in the intermediate county final and they then playing 2 preliminary quarter finals in the County Senior Championship

Expecting the 2 Joe Mc Teams to play the 3rd teams within 6/7 days further limits the chances of an upset


Should be a properly resourced standalone competition played before the actual all ireland final

[Mad Mentor]

The one week turn around is too short. Laois looked tired and consequently off the pace of Wexford. Again, to their credit, they didn't throw in the towel and this is to me a very encouraging sign. The Joe McDonagh has been a big success since it was introduced, but playing a rested third place team straight away is too much. If you remove the link between the Joe McDonagh and the Liam McCarthy then there is no route for progression for teams and the top tier becomes a closed shop.  In contrast with the Tailteann where better teams are parachuted in once they get knocked out of the Sam Maguire -reducing the chances of a lesser team winning, the Joe McDonagh rewards teams for progressing. If Laois/Offaly/Antrim/Carlow etc are ever to bridge the gap then getting to play in the Liam McCarthy for a couple of years at a time at least is vital.

[clonadmad]

The one week turn around is too short. Laois looked tired and consequently off the pace of Wexford. Again, to their credit, they didn't throw in the towel and this is to me a very encouraging sign. The Joe McDonagh has been a big success since it was introduced, but playing a rested third place team straight away is too much. If you remove the link between the Joe McDonagh and the Liam McCarthy then there is no route for progression for teams and the top tier becomes a closed shop.  In contrast with the Tailteann where better teams are parachuted in once they get knocked out of the Sam Maguire -reducing the chances of a lesser team winning, the Joe McDonagh rewards teams for progressing. If Laois/Offaly/Antrim/Carlow etc are ever to bridge the gap then getting to play in the Liam McCarthy for a couple of years at a time at least is vital.

There is a route to progression though

You win the final

You are in Liam McCarthy the following year

As for allowing Teams up for 2/3 years

How do you then relegate teams ?

[Verbal]

It is standalone as it is.
It has a definitive line up, start point & end point.
That is standalone.

It they can find an extra week to give the Joe Mc finalists a week off, great!
If it's a choice between playing consecutive weeks or not getting a preliminary quarter final, it's a no brainer.
Take the game 6 days later!

Tho stats re the history of Joe Mc finalists is one thing.
Another thing is Laois' experience in these games.
It has been largely positive.

I'd say Laois players will look back on the Wexford game last Saturday as more beneficial/memorable/useful than 4 of the 6 games they played in the Joe Mc.

You talk about making it a more prestigious competition.
The most prestigious thing about it is the status you earn the following year.
The second most prestigious thing is the free shot a week later.
I don't thing there's a huge gulf between the two in terms of value to those who win it.

Nobody involved has a problem with these games.
Speaks volumes.

I've said in an earlier post- you can't offer immunity for any length of time.
It bloats the Leinster championship & dilutes the Joe Mc.
Recipe for disaster.

[ottoman]

It is standalone as it is.
It has a definitive line up, start point & end point.
That is standalone.

It they can find an extra week to give the Joe Mc finalists a week off, great!
If it's a choice between playing consecutive weeks or not getting a preliminary quarter final, it's a no brainer.
Take the game 6 days later!

Tho stats re the history of Joe Mc finalists is one thing.
Another thing is Laois' experience in these games.
It has been largely positive.

I'd say Laois players will look back on the Wexford game last Saturday as more beneficial/memorable/useful than 4 of the 6 games they played in the Joe Mc.

You talk about making it a more prestigious competition.
The most prestigious thing about it is the status you earn the following year.
The second most prestigious thing is the free shot a week later.
I don't thing there's a huge gulf between the two in terms of value to those who win it.

Nobody involved has a problem with these games.
Speaks volumes.

I've said in an earlier post- you can't offer immunity for any length of time.
It bloats the Leinster championship & dilutes the Joe Mc.
Recipe for disaster.

I agree, I don't think there's a whole pile wrong with the current format, as it's hard to please all sides. Getting to the Joe MaC final and knowing you have a cut at the Liam Mac is a just reward. I think a 2 week break would be better between matches though.

On the Wexford game itself, I do think the lads were tired and it told as Wexford could always keep us at arm's length. One thing that did stand out to me, however, was our threat up front is not there yet against the top teams. I looked back at the 2019 Joe Mac year, and we had forwards in their peak like Roddy, Picky and Willie Dunphy, we had Mark Kavanagh and Cha and of course Arron Dunphy who is still doing the business to be fair. I think our current crop up front are young and not at the level of those guys yet.

[burdizzo]

Wexford had 23 points from play, while we scored seven from play - and one of them from the full-back!

[Joeythelips]

I think its a fair reward that Joe MCD winners get a cut at pre-lim quarter final.

Again its down to our devotion for provincial competitions that the system is not a better format.
Scrap those and have two proper seeded groups for AI series, each team play each other. 4 teams in each group go through to AI quarter final apart from the lowest ranked one which plays off against Joe McD cup winners. This gives team coming up a taster of the level they need to be at for next season and if they are good enough (as Laois were in 2019) a chance at an AI quarter final spot.

Bottom 2 in each AI group playoff with losers dropping down.

Its simple and fair. Same should be done with football. That way theoretically everyone gets a chance at the AI and you cut down on the constant mismatches.

[Laois Rising]

I think that is an excellent point regarding our starting forwards. They are not at the level of the 2019 team but there is scope for improvement to reach and perhaps exceed those standards. I actually think this Laois team will be all the better for one more year at Joe McDonagh, especially with the new league format in place for 2025 giving us access to competitive games. The scope is there to continue and develop- the likes of Dooley, Cuddy etc. who will benefit from being a year stronger and more experienced. It might serve us better to develop the side further next year at Joe Mc level as opposed to going into a Leinster championship in 2025 and possibly coming back down after only 1 year up there. 

Carlow have peaked as a side and I think will find it hard coming off relegation to reach the heights they have reached at times in the last two years. Lets not forget that last year we were the stronger side in our Joe McD encounter only for us to take the foot off the accelerator and also concede a fortuitous last minute penalty to level a game we should have won by 5/6 points. In the league final we showed that when we get into our groove you have enough talented hurlers to really hurt them.

My prediction is that we will Joe McDonagh in 2025 with a bit to spare and hopefully be in a position to really have a crack off of whoever finishes third in a premlim quarter-final. Of huge importance is getting a talented U20 team right for 2025. Last year, we saw Kilkenny walk goals in against what was perceived to be a good Laois team and Offaly blow them away in opening ten minutes in O'Connor Park. This side has a number of players capable of stepping up and improving our lot at senior level in years to come. It is important therefore that they are managed, developed properly and are competitive in 2025.     

[Blow-in]

I wouldn't be so optimistic. I reckon we could minimum see 4/5 retirements from that panel. I think we missed a huge opportunity especially retaining older players to aid the development of the younger players. Hopefully I'm wrong.

We need to establish a constant supply of 2/3 players graduating from our u20s who are ready and good enough for senior Hurling. I think results should not be the main goal of this team rather producing quality future players. This should be the focus of every underage section in clubs too, not winning at all costs which is killing player development.

Our minors and development squads are so important, exposing them to high standards and aiming to create a culture of players wanting to play at the highest level possible. Putting a top level manager coach at minor level is key and leaving them there for a period rather than putting someone in for the sake of it and changing constantly like what has happened in recent years.

We have so much work to do it's scary. 

[Verbal]

I would share the previous poster's view.

We are going to lose several really important players.
Others are going to wane.

We need a seriously steady influx.

[SpeculativeEffort]

I'm going to be a little controversial here.

Our hurlers prepare really well. They train hard, look after themselves and miss plenty to play county.

However did they need 2/3 days on the beer after the Joe Mc loss? Could we have taken 1 more step towards quality preparation and put day 2/3 on ice until after wexford? We were always going to be up against it but a preliminary q final vs a possibly beatable team (on a very good day) is surely why lads are playing. Why make it more difficult for ourselves?

Also before ppl chime in about beer being no harm,if that was the case teams would be at it all the time.

Are we ambitious enough?

[burdizzo]

I would share the previous poster's view.

We are going to lose several really important players.
Others are going to wane.

We need a seriously steady influx.

Yeah. Just looking at the team sheet, at least six of the 2013 minor team still were involved and playing against Wexford. Except for Quinlan and Cuddy, how many of the 2022 Leinster final minor team are coming through, or expected to come through in the next couple of years?

[beano]

I would agree. Lads could have went for pints after the offaly game and left it at that. You could see in the second half that lads were out on their feet. It was to their credit that we only lost by 12 but a fully prepared team with everything going to plan would have made things interesting.