Black and Tans Commemoration

Rossfan · January 06, 2020, 06:10:53 PM

A step too far Leo!
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/taoiseach-defends-ric-commemoration-as-corks-lord-mayor-latest-to-boycott-event-38837971.html

What next? Commemorating Kevin Barry and the hangman in the one ceremony

seafoid · January 06, 2020, 07:21:35 PM

RIC were mostly Irish who were on the losing side in a revolutionary war. After the war they were ostracised. Later the pieds noirs in Algeria played the same role.
History is messy .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied-Noir

Those who moved to France, suffered ostracism from the Left for their perceived exploitation of native Muslims and some blamed them for the war, thus the political turmoil surrounding the collapse of the French Fourth Republic.[3] I

Eamonnca1 · January 06, 2020, 07:25:07 PM

I see the shinners are pressing hard with rebranding this RIC commemoration as a "Black and Tans" commemoration. I have to hand it to them, they're masters of the art of distortion and whipping up rage.

Rossfan · January 06, 2020, 07:59:30 PM

It's not right or appropriate that an Independent Irish State should officially commemorate an organisation that fought to prevent the establishment of an Independent Irish State.
By all means list those killed in any historical record as facts are facts but this thing is wrong.
Yanks don't remember the redcoats who were killed in their War of Independence.
Will we next have a Statue of fkn Cromwell in Drogheda?

Main Street · January 06, 2020, 08:00:13 PM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 06, 2020, 07:25:07 PM
I see the shinners are pressing hard with rebranding this RIC commemoration as a "Black and Tans" commemoration. I have to hand it to them, they're masters of the art of distortion and whipping up rage.

6.3 Auxiliary division and 'Black and Tans'
From 1920 to 1922, Royal Irish Constabulary 'Temporary Constables' made up largely of ex-soldiers and commonly called the 'Black and Tans', were employed to suppress revolution in Ireland, alongside an Auxiliary Division (ADRIC) of former military officers. These former officers, like the Black and Tans, were mostly First World War veterans, including those who had served in the Royal Flying Corps.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/royal-irish-constabulary/

weareros · January 06, 2020, 09:00:32 PM

If in a United Ireland, Unionists wanted the government to honour RUC men who lost their lives in the Troubles, or indeed the precursor to the RUC, the RIC - would it be okay to commemorate RIC then. SF do tell them they have nothing to fear in a United Ireland, all traditions, both sides of history welcome.

Eamonnca1 · January 06, 2020, 09:09:49 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2020, 07:59:30 PM
It's not right or appropriate that an Independent Irish State should officially commemorate an organisation that fought to prevent the establishment of an Independent Irish State.
By all means list those killed in any historical record as facts are facts but this thing is wrong.
Yanks don't remember the redcoats who were killed in their War of Independence.
Will we next have a Statue of fkn Cromwell in Drogheda?

There are people in the states who still fly the confederate flag and defend confederate monuments. Self-loathing is not an exclusively Irish thing.

bennydorano · January 06, 2020, 09:26:50 PM

Quote from: weareros on January 06, 2020, 09:00:32 PM
If in a United Ireland, Unionists wanted the government to honour RUC men who lost their lives in the Troubles, or indeed the precursor to the RUC, the RIC - would it be okay to commemorate RIC then. SF do tell them they have nothing to fear in a United Ireland, all traditions, both sides of history welcome.

Similar thoughts had crossed my mind, a lot of ROI citizens would undoubtedly find a 'New (united) Ireland' a strange place. There are lots of types of Irishmen.

Orior · January 06, 2020, 09:40:21 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on January 06, 2020, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: weareros on January 06, 2020, 09:00:32 PM
If in a United Ireland, Unionists wanted the government to honour RUC men who lost their lives in the Troubles, or indeed the precursor to the RUC, the RIC - would it be okay to commemorate RIC then. SF do tell them they have nothing to fear in a United Ireland, all traditions, both sides of history welcome.
Similar thoughts had crossed my mind, a lot of ROI citizens would undoubtedly find a 'New (united) Ireland' a strange place. There are lots of types of Irishmen.

In a new Ireland, there would probably need to be a place to honour the UDR too.

I would have no trouble with Orange Order parades in a new Ireland.

My mum is not very complimentary about the Tans!

Main Street · January 06, 2020, 09:57:54 PM

A united Germany should commerate the Stasi.

andoireabu · January 06, 2020, 10:03:34 PM

Where has the push for this commemoration come from? Is there a veteran society or something like that or is it just a brain fart from FG trying to be mature about history?

The same lads will be falling over themselves at Easter to commemorate the very lads the RIC were trying to stop.

weareros · January 06, 2020, 10:17:55 PM

Quote from: andoireabu on January 06, 2020, 10:03:34 PM
Where has the push for this commemoration come from? Is there a veteran society or something like that or is it just a brain fart from FG trying to be mature about history?

The same lads will be falling over themselves at Easter to commemorate the very lads the RIC were trying to stop.

Sounds like it's retired gardai who began it and has been going on for awhile without official state involvement:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/state-still-cannot-bring-itself-to-honour-the-memory-of-ric-men-1.3642435

Rossfan · January 06, 2020, 10:40:31 PM

I see the Dublin Corpo voted tonight to ignore the thing.

yellowcard · January 06, 2020, 10:41:32 PM

The backlash has started but really what did Fine Gael expect? Leaving aside the Brexit process apart (and that was for purely selfish economic reasons) they have always been the party who gave off a feeling of subservience to British rule. Charlie Flanagan being the prime exponent of it but only one of several within that party.

SkillfulBill · January 06, 2020, 10:46:43 PM

Some serious poor revisionist Historians on here. RIC was a 70% -80% catholic force who served in an Ireland which was at a time when the majority of the population was at the very least subservient to the Crown. You are talking about a force which was very representative of the Irish population of the time and was made up of men from poor backgrounds who seen a way out of poverty which at the time was not seen through a prisim of partition. FFSake the RIC where disbanded in 1922. Not to be confused by the Orange Force of the RUC. What chance of convincing 800 000 protestant that their culture and history would be respected in a United Ireland if catholic Ireland does not have the sense to respect there own...RIC were not the Black and Tans who where Auxiliaries recruited from main English/Scottish poverty stricken and trench effected veterans of the WW I butchers feud.