FRC proposals...black cards, marks etc

[Zulu]

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

Do you honestly think he wanted to make a mistake? It's a new set of rules and in some parts complicated, the best thing to do in those situations is to ask, very easy to sit behind a keyboard/screen and give off, try it some time

I disagree with you here MR2. If he made the mistake and nobody cottoned on to it then fair enough but it was brought to the attention of both the linesman and the ref himself. At that point he should have checked that he had in fact issued both a yellow and black card admitted he made a mistake and sent the player off. Digging your heels in or being unaware a yellow and black equals a red is simply incompetence and shouldn't be defended.

[smort]

Exactly my point zulu. Digging their heels in is the perfect way to describe it.

MR2 why are referees so reluctant to admit mistakes? I know this isn't necessarily a Gaelic problem, as we often hear calls for premiership referees to come out and say they had made an honest mistake, but it never happens.

[Canalman]

I think referees (wrongly) believe asking for help/advice is a sign of weakness. If they approached a situation where they are unsure of the decision in the correct way, I would actually have more respect for them. Some referees can be very stubborn, ploughing ahead with decisions and not listening to genuine advice or enquiries from players/managers/other officials

And players should also be a bit more honest in their game also

Agreed, it should work both ways.

I wonder could we implement what is used in rugby where only the captain can talk to the referee. I see one of the candidates, or potential candidate to be exact, in the running for the next FIFA presidency wants to bring this rule into soccer.

Still imo doesn't deal with the main issue imo and that is the utter contempt many players/ fans and indeed posters on this forum have for referees.  "Genuine advice or enquiries from players" ... have to be honest and say that I have seen very little of that.
Hope the referees flash the black cards with abandon in the Spring and cut the mouthing and abuse out of the game if at all possible.

[Milltown Row2]

I think referees (wrongly) believe asking for help/advice is a sign of weakness. If they approached a situation where they are unsure of the decision in the correct way, I would actually have more respect for them. Some referees can be very stubborn, ploughing ahead with decisions and not listening to genuine advice or enquiries from players/managers/other officials

And players should also be a bit more honest in their game also

Agreed, it should work both ways.

I wonder could we implement what is used in rugby where only the captain can talk to the referee. I see one of the candidates, or potential candidate to be exact, in the running for the next FIFA presidency wants to bring this rule into soccer.

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

Do you honestly think he wanted to make a mistake? It's a new set of rules and in some parts complicated, the best thing to do in those situations is to ask, very easy to sit behind a keyboard/screen and give off, try it some time

I disagree with you here MR2. If he made the mistake and nobody cottoned on to it then fair enough but it was brought to the attention of both the linesman and the ref himself. At that point he should have checked that he had in fact issued both a yellow and black card admitted he made a mistake and sent the player off. Digging your heels in or being unaware a yellow and black equals a red is simply incompetence and shouldn't be defended.

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

Do you honestly think he wanted to make a mistake? It's a new set of rules and in some parts complicated, the best thing to do in those situations is to ask, very easy to sit behind a keyboard/screen and give off, try it some time

I disagree with you here MR2. If he made the mistake and nobody cottoned on to it then fair enough but it was brought to the attention of both the linesman and the ref himself. At that point he should have checked that he had in fact issued both a yellow and black card admitted he made a mistake and sent the player off. Digging your heels in or being unaware a yellow and black equals a red is simply incompetence and shouldn't be defended.

I'm not defending it, I said he should have asked, read my post, in one 60 minute game he makes one mistake and he's incompetent!! Ffs thon English referee failed to send a man of in the World cup final and he'd been refereeing the same rules for years !! these things are only in less than a month and you're giving off!! You are also a perfectionist?

[Milltown Row2]

Exactly my point zulu. Digging their heels in is the perfect way to describe it.

MR2 why are referees so reluctant to admit mistakes? I know this isn't necessarily a Gaelic problem, as we often hear calls for premiership referees to come out and say they had made an honest mistake, but it never happens.

Hey we are all human, I've played senior for 25 years for my club, I've made plenty mistakes, not once during a game did I say to the referee oh hold on there ref I hooked his stick before he tried to play the ball, allowing it to fall into my hand!! That's a daft post in fairness, players never own up to mistakes either

[Zulu]

I think referees (wrongly) believe asking for help/advice is a sign of weakness. If they approached a situation where they are unsure of the decision in the correct way, I would actually have more respect for them. Some referees can be very stubborn, ploughing ahead with decisions and not listening to genuine advice or enquiries from players/managers/other officials

And players should also be a bit more honest in their game also

Agreed, it should work both ways.

I wonder could we implement what is used in rugby where only the captain can talk to the referee. I see one of the candidates, or potential candidate to be exact, in the running for the next FIFA presidency wants to bring this rule into soccer.

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

Do you honestly think he wanted to make a mistake? It's a new set of rules and in some parts complicated, the best thing to do in those situations is to ask, very easy to sit behind a keyboard/screen and give off, try it some time

I disagree with you here MR2. If he made the mistake and nobody cottoned on to it then fair enough but it was brought to the attention of both the linesman and the ref himself. At that point he should have checked that he had in fact issued both a yellow and black card admitted he made a mistake and sent the player off. Digging your heels in or being unaware a yellow and black equals a red is simply incompetence and shouldn't be defended.

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

Do you honestly think he wanted to make a mistake? It's a new set of rules and in some parts complicated, the best thing to do in those situations is to ask, very easy to sit behind a keyboard/screen and give off, try it some time

I disagree with you here MR2. If he made the mistake and nobody cottoned on to it then fair enough but it was brought to the attention of both the linesman and the ref himself. At that point he should have checked that he had in fact issued both a yellow and black card admitted he made a mistake and sent the player off. Digging your heels in or being unaware a yellow and black equals a red is simply incompetence and shouldn't be defended.

I'm not defending it, I said he should have asked, read my post, in one 60 minute game he makes one mistake and he's incompetent!! Ffs thon English referee failed to send a man of in the World cup final and he'd been refereeing the same rules for years !! these things are only in less than a month and you're giving off!! You are also a perfectionist?

Asked who? He was told he made a mistake why didn't he simply check his own notes? Please read my post, I said his actions were incompetent not that he was. The same way that Sludden was incompetent in that infamous Leinster final when failing to use his umpires to help clarify the situation.

We all make mistakes but referees shouldn't make certain mistakes especially when they get to the point where they are being given high level matches like a senior A football quarter final.

I referee games too by the way but we'll never improve standards if we circle the wagons everytime a ref makes a glaring mistake. The way forward is to admit it address it.

[Milltown Row2]

I'm certainly not drawing the wagons round, I'm accountable for my own actions, no one else, I've said he should have asked. I've sometimes written a score down on the wrong page for the other team, it happens, If it happens I always ask both sets of teams managers what they had down for the score, those things are very easily done.

Without the referees we wont have the games, there aren't too many new referees, we had 5 at a course last week to supplement the existing referees, not a great return, and some would say (ex players) why da fcuk would you get involved with refereeing when all ya get is abuse??

Refereeing kids friendlies and wee tournaments doesn't make you a referee Zulu, doing a Junior/intermediate/senior semi final/final is a lot different

[Rossfan]

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

Do you honestly think he wanted to make a mistake? It's a new set of rules and in some parts complicated, the best thing to do in those situations is to ask, very easy to sit behind a keyboard/screen and give off, try it some time

I know it's a tough oul station alright.
However I would expect an official Ref to at least know the Rules. There was enough talk and Q/A thingys doing the rounds.
Anyway you hit the nail on the head that he should have asked when it was brought to his attention rather than the " I'm the Ref - I'll send you off too" type of thing.

[Zulu]

I'm certainly not drawing the wagons round, I'm accountable for my own actions, no one else, I've said he should have asked. I've sometimes written a score down on the wrong page for the other team, it happens, If it happens I always ask both sets of teams managers what they had down for the score, those things are very easily done.

Without the referees we wont have the games, there aren't too many new referees, we had 5 at a course last week to supplement the existing referees, not a great return, and some would say (ex players) why da fcuk would you get involved with refereeing when all ya get is abuse??

Refereeing kids friendlies and wee tournaments doesn't make you a referee Zulu, doing a Junior/intermediate/senior semi final/final is a lot different

Can you please clarify who he should have asked and why he shouldn't have simply checked his own notes when the mistake was brought to his attention???

While I'd readily admit I don't ref at your level MR2 I do ref university, club senior league and championship matches here in Britain so I have a fair idea of what it's like to ref 'proper' games. They'd certainly match a lot of intermediate level games at home and are done without any help from linesmen or umpires, try doing that for a while!!

You did circle the wagons and you did defend, or at least made excuses for, a guy who made a shocking mistake.

You're also completely missing the point. You said you written down the wrong score (fair enough) and he failed to send off someone he should have (fair enough) but you addressed you mistake and he didn't, that's the problem. Nobody expects them to be perfect but he did the equivalent of you saying 'no lads, I have the right score and you're both wrong'. Getting the score wrong is a mistake but not correcting it when you know you're wrong would be the indefensible incompetency.

We all know refs are hard to come by and I'm all in favour of the black cards for mouthing but refs need to be able to keep a cool head and address mistakes if they are made. The guy should have stopped play and spoken with his linesman and the manger, checked his notes and rectified his mistake and nobody would then be complaining. He didn't do that and that is unacceptable. Like I said if he was reffing that match he must have been an experienced official so he has no excuse IMO.

[AZOffaly]

Maybe the mistake was that he didn't realise that a Yellow, followed by a Black, was a Red? Not that he had already yellowed the lad?

[Milltown Row2]

Just another Refeering "mistake" which will be explained away by " Ah sure everyone makes mistakes - players, managers, ....even referees".....

Do you honestly think he wanted to make a mistake? It's a new set of rules and in some parts complicated, the best thing to do in those situations is to ask, very easy to sit behind a keyboard/screen and give off, try it some time

Zulu, here's my original post, I was replying to this post, and I stated that the best thing to do in those situations is ask, he can ask the lines men or umpires, though some of the umpires I've brought to games have trouble keeping the score nevermind understanding the new set of rules which are only out 3 weeks. All club games this year won't have neutral linesmen or umpires, the referee will be on his own and for most part will make these decisions on his own.

Yes we would all prefer to get it right first time, but if he doesn't he'll learn from it, no one died, you'd think after some of the posts here that it was as bad as that, maybe if the player had have played within the rules in the first place we'd have nothing to post about

So in all your refereeing games you have not made any mistakes? I'm not talking about blowing for a foul and giving it the other direction before realising you were wrong (done) no when after the game you queried yourself on a call and felt hmmm that was maybe wrong when looking back?

[Zulu]

MR2 I certainly have reflected on some decisions or looking back thought I might have missed something but I think these are within the accepted limits. I would be very disappointed with myself if I didn't know a rule or didn't take the time to correct a clear and serious error on my behalf. If, for example, I send someone off on a black card and allow him to be substituted and the opposing manager points out that I've made a mistake and he shouldn't be replaced and instead of checking if I made a mistake I tell him to go away or I'll send him off then I'd be extremely disappointed. That, for my money, would be an unacceptable mistake to make.

[orangeman]

Controversy has arisen surrounding the new black card rule with a Cork college considering an appeal against a result following an alleged mistake by referee Kevin Walsh.

Colaiste Chriost Ri, who lost the Corn Ui Mhuiri quarter-final to Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne of Dingle in extra time, are considering an appeal after the Kerry side's captain, Barra O Suilleabhain, was apparently issued with both a yellow and a black card during the match in Killarney.

Under new rules, O Suilleabhain should have been red-carded, but Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne were allowed to replace the midfielder with substitute Gareth O Brosnachain.

Munster colleges serving officer John Brennan told the Irish Examiner: "The referee's report is expected tonight and if Colaiste Chriost Ri decide to put in an objection, there will be a hearing of the Munster Post Primary CCC committee.

"They have three days to lodge an objection and we will hold off on fixing a date for the semi-final until the three days have passed."

Chriost Ri manager Aidan Moynihan added: "If that man had not been replaced, the outcome after normal time could have been very different.

"I went on to the field to try and address the issue. I was dismissed quite abruptly by the referee. I was asked to leave the field and if I didn't, I would be put off.

"The linesman on our side was Eddie Walsh, who is from Kerry and part of Eamonn Fitzmaurice's Kerry backroom team. The other linesman was also from Kerry, Pat Sheehy.

"It was a bit of an ambush position to be putting us in having those officials. The new rules are laid out as plain as day on the GAA website

[muppet]

Controversy has arisen surrounding the new black card rule with a Cork college considering an appeal against a result following an alleged mistake by referee Kevin Walsh.

Colaiste Chriost Ri, who lost the Corn Ui Mhuiri quarter-final to Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne of Dingle in extra time, are considering an appeal after the Kerry side's captain, Barra O Suilleabhain, was apparently issued with both a yellow and a black card during the match in Killarney.

Under new rules, O Suilleabhain should have been red-carded, but Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne were allowed to replace the midfielder with substitute Gareth O Brosnachain.

Munster colleges serving officer John Brennan told the Irish Examiner: "The referee's report is expected tonight and if Colaiste Chriost Ri decide to put in an objection, there will be a hearing of the Munster Post Primary CCC committee.

"They have three days to lodge an objection and we will hold off on fixing a date for the semi-final until the three days have passed."

Chriost Ri manager Aidan Moynihan added: "If that man had not been replaced, the outcome after normal time could have been very different.

"I went on to the field to try and address the issue. I was dismissed quite abruptly by the referee. I was asked to leave the field and if I didn't, I would be put off.

"The linesman on our side was Eddie Walsh, who is from Kerry and part of Eamonn Fitzmaurice's Kerry backroom team. The other linesman was also from Kerry, Pat Sheehy.

"It was a bit of an ambush position to be putting us in having those officials. The new rules are laid out as plain as day on the GAA website

A ref's mistake is unfortunate but they will hardly change the result.

[orangeman]

Controversy has arisen surrounding the new black card rule with a Cork college considering an appeal against a result following an alleged mistake by referee Kevin Walsh.

Colaiste Chriost Ri, who lost the Corn Ui Mhuiri quarter-final to Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne of Dingle in extra time, are considering an appeal after the Kerry side's captain, Barra O Suilleabhain, was apparently issued with both a yellow and a black card during the match in Killarney.

Under new rules, O Suilleabhain should have been red-carded, but Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne were allowed to replace the midfielder with substitute Gareth O Brosnachain.

Munster colleges serving officer John Brennan told the Irish Examiner: "The referee's report is expected tonight and if Colaiste Chriost Ri decide to put in an objection, there will be a hearing of the Munster Post Primary CCC committee.

"They have three days to lodge an objection and we will hold off on fixing a date for the semi-final until the three days have passed."

Chriost Ri manager Aidan Moynihan added: "If that man had not been replaced, the outcome after normal time could have been very different.

"I went on to the field to try and address the issue. I was dismissed quite abruptly by the referee. I was asked to leave the field and if I didn't, I would be put off.

"The linesman on our side was Eddie Walsh, who is from Kerry and part of Eamonn Fitzmaurice's Kerry backroom team. The other linesman was also from Kerry, Pat Sheehy.

"It was a bit of an ambush position to be putting us in having those officials. The new rules are laid out as plain as day on the GAA website

A ref's mistake is unfortunate but they will hardly change the result.

Aye but it was a cute Kerry hoor set up on the poor Cork lads.