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Condolences to Kerry Mike and redandblack4ever on their losses. Haven't had time to check this thread in a while, sorry to hear about both.

+1

Condolences to both Mike and redabdblack4ever.

Mullahoran, Cavan Gaels, Kingscourt and Castlerahan to win this weekend in Cavan Championship quarter finals.

Mullahoran V Ballinagh is a very tight one to call. Mullahoran are improving but at 10/11 Mullahoran- 11/10 Ballinagh, the bookies have it priced about right. Mullahoran won a scrappy league encounter last month by a point and one score could be the difference on Saturday evening.
Cavan Gaels at 1/16 is a ridiculous price. Will more than likely win but couldn't touch them at those odds.
Kingscourt at 1/6 is probably about right. Drumgoon have done very well to reach a Q-Final but Kingscourt's experience should tell.
Castlerahan at 8/15 is probably a touch of good value. They look like a team determined to make up for last years county final mis-match. A dubious point seperated these teams when they met in the league and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Belturbet won but I think they are slightly weaker in defence and that should be the difference.

I'd recommend a Castlerahan/Kingscourt double.
Any other opinions from other counties?

[So I suppose so far have have not really seen a stand out game where anybody new is standing out]

Anybody see anybody in the championship that has really impressed. Watched McKiernan against BBoro at the weekend had a great first half but as it was a dead rubber not sure you could tell much from it. Curran was also impressive. After that the Cootehill lads really pulled the game out of the fire against Ballyhaise where I though apart from Tierney were not up to much in the forward line. So I suppose so far have have not really seen a stand out game where anybody new is standing out

Haven't seen near as many games this year as I would like to have but from the games I was at or involved in I was impressed with:

Mark Teevan ( Belturbet) Big, strong lad. Offers a lot to Belturbet both going forward and tracking back. Good man to find space for himself.
Johnny Klushe (Belturbet) Alot like Teevan. Good in the air.
Kevin Mc Connell (Belturbet) Very strong and brave, superb fitness and work rate.
Niall Reilly ( Ballinagh) Very comfortable and elusive on the ball, good tackler.
Rory Dunne (Redhills) Big, strong, good in the air. Could be an option for Full-back.
Kevin Smith (Ballinagh) Fast, strong, good reader of breaks, good in front of goal.

With a bit of work and man to man coaching these lads would be capable of the step up to IC level IMO. I'm pretty sure there are plenty more around the county who haven't been given a chance. Whether they are committed or can commit is another matter but we definitely have the raw materials in Cavan to be doing a lot better than we currently are at Senior level.

[What happens when some of your more committed lads aren't good enough to make an amalgamated team though??]

What happens when some of your more committed lads aren't good enough to make an amalgamated team though??
I think amalgamations shouldn't be used when together they have over a dozen subs - which I'm hearing is happening a bit this Minor Championship, i.e. if teams have enough, they should play on their own.

Clubs can take a lazy option - the idea of "it'll be hard work to get our 15+ boys out every week and keep them interested but if we amalgamated, it's easier to look after half of them....

Also I believe there is a notion of winning would be easier and at a higher division (which can be a factor if the coaches' ego is involved) - i.e. we'll put 7 of our best with 8 of your best and we've a great team, sure who'd stop us....  Easier said than done, especially if everyone else is thinking and doing it too

Another of the problems is that there isn't enough divisions for every team to play at a competitive level... i.e. Take the Under 16s, 31 teams do not fit neatly into 3 divisions so within each division there is a massive gap between some teams. 

Added to the fact that each Division was split into two groups of five teams (one group in Div 3 had 6 teams) meaning that most teams only played 5 league games (4 group plus quarter final) - Cavan football will not continue to be at the top of Ulster Underage football if the majority of our Under 16s team only play a handful of games in a season...

Under 14s was the same and worse in some ways, 2 groups in each division but with no quarter final just semi finals - top 2 in each group - meaning after a couple of defeats, most teams had nothing to play for...

I don't know why there is a big problem with Division 4 and possibly Division 5 - they have it in Monaghan with a lot less clubs.  There seems to be a problem with playing 13 and even 11 a side too.

Speaking of Bultersbridge, I know they won a Division 4 Minor League at 11 a side and went on to win a Minor Div 3 Championship later on that year.  A year or two later they won a Junior Championship too....

There has to be subs on every team Celt Man. Some lads just won't make it. But if they are committed they will stick at the game and try and improve and in a few years time they should make it if they have the right attitude. Not making a team is no reason to walk away from the game.
You call it the lazy option. I am only talking from the perspective of my own club and I have seen both sides. If the lazy option is constantly calling to lads and trying to persuade them to come out for training like some coaches are doing or scraping together 15 for a challenge then I'd love to know what the hard option is.
Some lads will walk away from the game after Minor. That is a fact. To be brutally honest I would be more worried about giving the lads who will stick at it after 18-19 a decent level of football than giving lads a game who will probably quit within a year anyway.

[amalgamation of Redbridge on the other hand has obviously not been a success]

Amalgamations in some cases DO work and have worked for some clubs. St Joes and Redbridge being prime examples. It is far too early to say about some other 'experiments'. You say that you have never heard of so many young lads quitting football. What club are you involved in or what clubs are you referring to? I agree that it is getting harder and harder to keep lads committed these days but that is for a number of reasons and not solely amalgamations. The standard of coaching being a prime example.
I agree that the club scene is in a very poor state in Cavan at the moment but we have been doing the same things in Cavan for as long as I can remember and they haven't improved anything so maybe its time we tried something different? I think thats where the Board are coming from also. Not having a Division 3 was obviously a big mistake and there will be repercussions over it I'd imagine.
Amalgamations is encouraging elitism which will not please everybody but it really is up to clubs to decide which road they want to go down. Compete on their own and maybe take a hiding or amalgamate and try and be competitive. That might be a simplistic view but it rings true in a lot of clubs.

Fair enough St.Joes have been competitive in recent years, despite winning nothing, the amalgamation of Redbridge on the other hand has obviously not been a success seeing as they felt the need to add another team to the setup (Belturbet) . I'd rather not say what club I am involved in but I can say that my club has been involved in amalgamations in recent years and it has caused several players to be denied the chance to develop and has led to many quitting football altogether. This is the case among several clubs around the county and any other honest trainers/managers will tell you that.

I agree that the standard of coaching is poor at the minute and measures do need to be taken to improve this but sadly it is an amateur sport and the majority of coaches are only involved because they have a son or relative on the team, but who can blame them. There are very few coaches around that are doing it solely for their love of the game and to those that are, kudos to them. Also it appears that there are more and more senior players getting involved with coaching underage teams within clubs which is great to see.

Some of the amalgamations that have been slapped together for minor this year as just plain silly though and I have been to minor championship games for the last several years and there has been no sign whatsoever of this ''elitism'' this year in my opinion. In fact I would argue that the standard this year has been poorer, especially at division 1 level, than recent years.

No harm in trying something new I suppose, but how long will this continue to go on for before clubs begin to see the repercussions at senior and senior reserve level.

Redhills and Butlersbridge have been amalgamating for several years now so just because Belturbet have been added to the mix this year doesn't mean it hasn't worked for them. Redhills won an Intermediate championship in 2008 with a lot of lads who had played at Division 1 level with Redbridge and these lads have kept Redhills at Senior level while Butlersbridge won a Junior championship in 2009 with a lot of lads who had also played underage at Division 1 level. That is success to me.

I think you have missed my point regarding Elitism. My point was that amalgamations encourage a survival of the fittest ethos where the weaker footballers might not get a game which obviously isn't ideal. I wasn't saying that the standard of football has improved. I haven't seen enough underage football this year to comment on that.

I agree that some amalgamations which have happened in the past should never have happened but at the end of the day it is up to each individual club to decide what is best for them in the long run.
As I have said before and I know it is relevant to my own club at U-16/ Minor level, are we better off staying on our own and scraping together a panel of 18 lads (half of whom are committed) to try and compete or are we better off amalgamating and giving the 8-10 lads who are committed a chance to play a so-called better standard of football. That's what it boils down to.

Killygarry had agreed to join with Denn for the Championship but Cavan Gaels then got in contact with Killygarry and they joined with them instead..

Seems like bad sportsmanship on Killygarry's half if they had previously agreed to join with Denn, a team which they joined with in recent years if I'm not mistaken. If this is the case then I'm glad to see nothing come of the Gaels/Killygarry amalgamation.

In my opinion the Gaels would have been better off and more competitive on their own and the same can be said for several other teams who amalgamated simply because it appears to be the ''trend'' at this time.

Was sorry to see Templeport take a hiding. I had hoped to see them do well and all credit to them for not amalgamating when they didn't need to. It should stand to them next year when O Raghallaigh Gaels and Cavan Gaels are weak and them (Templeport) and Ramor should compete in a competitive race for Division 1 silverware.

The same can probably be said for most of the teams that amalgamated solely for the championship. These nonsensical amalgamations shouldn't be going on and isn't going to help anybody in the long run. Never have I heard of so many young players quitting football in such a short space of time as has happened this summer.

As for that shambles of a result in Division 2 well I think that speaks for itself. The responsibility for that shambles of a result falls solely on the shoulders of the County Minor Board. Denn were also annihilated in the opening round fixture and Mullahoran would've most likely been beaten by a lot more than 8 points had they have faced a stronger team.

People say that because we won a few Ulster titles at underage level in the past few years that things are on the up. I can't remember a time when things were worse within the club setup - both at minor, junior and senior level. Resignations need to be announced and a serious review of the current structure is in dire need. 

Amalgamations in some cases DO work and have worked for some clubs. St Joes and Redbridge being prime examples. It is far too early to say about some other 'experiments'. You say that you have never heard of so many young lads quitting football. What club are you involved in or what clubs are you referring to? I agree that it is getting harder and harder to keep lads committed these days but that is for a number of reasons and not solely amalgamations. The standard of coaching being a prime example.
I agree that the club scene is in a very poor state in Cavan at the moment but we have been doing the same things in Cavan for as long as I can remember and they haven't improved anything so maybe its time we tried something different? I think thats where the Board are coming from also. Not having a Division 3 was obviously a big mistake and there will be repercussions over it I'd imagine.
Amalgamations is encouraging elitism which will not please everybody but it really is up to clubs to decide which road they want to go down. Compete on their own and maybe take a hiding or amalgamate and try and be competitive. That might be a simplistic view but it rings true in a lot of clubs.

Danadana in the last, Fallon is hungry for a winner!! 

Great call Sammy. You're on fire!! Staying away from the nags but might have to start following ya again.

All the best to Kevin Sheedy. The reason I support Everton and still a great club man. Hope he pulls through.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0821/attempt-to-have-ivan-yates-made-bankrupt-dismissed.html

Did Sean Quinn not also question the amount owed to Anglo/IBRC?

What was the difference between Yates and Quinn? Need I ask?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that Denn were initially supposed to join with Killygarry but they then joined with Cavan Gaels leaving Denn on their own.
There should have been a Division 3.

Has any one answered the question on whether Quinn Insurance had an actuarial department or even one actuarist on board to calculate the risk or was the business run on a wing and a prayer as would appear to be the philosophy of the group?

I think he said in his interview with Vincent B last week that he never employed actuaries.

If a company that employed well over 1000 people for over a decade and treated their staff extremely well appears to be run on a wing and a prayer then maybe this wing and a prayer philosophy should be studied in greater detail.

[the stuff about claims is nonsense Quinn were over exposed for years and everyone including the regulator new it.]

Agree totally. Liberty were given a ridiculous deal by Anglo. They allowed Liberty to take all the good points from the business without having to take any of the liabilities. Crazy crazy deal!!

Perhaps. But Liberty have the capital and the expertise to save the good parts of the business and the jobs. Had Quinn or Anglo remained in charge the good business would have drifted away as people would not have faith that they would be paid if they had a claim, so all that would have been left was the liabilities in any case.

Liberty put up 100M Euro total, that was it and got 49% of all the good parts of the business. I also disagree that people would have drifted away. There was never a risk of claims not being paid as virtually ever policy would have had to claim for that to be a risk. The company could have continued to trade without the exposure to the unprofitable sections of the business. QIL had already learned from their costly mistakes in the UK markets and would have been in a position to trade out of it. The profits wouldn't have been diverted of so the losses made on the UK market would have been to a certain extent reduced. They company was well run as the administrators have previously said and have well below average settlement figures due to their fast track approach. A point that the administrators refused to take into account when setting reserves.

i have not been involved in this debate and i have no axe to grind but i am in the insurance business and I'm afraid to say that nearly everything you have said above is incorrect.

it was not a question of people drifting away the book of business would have been sold and the company closed down.
the stuff about claims is nonsense Quinn were over exposed for years and everyone including the regulator new it. new European regulation coming in this Autumn called solvency 2 require much higher reserves. this has to  taken into account when considering the reserves Quinn would need. ( this will effect everyone expect to see premiums climb over the next 2 years).

Yes the Regulator. He knew a lot didn't he. He was definitely on top of things wasn't he.

Like most people including myself you don't know the full details so quit speaking half truths as if they are fact.
Hindsight sure does get some people up on their high horses round here.

RIP Mrs redandblack4ever

Coopers article is right on the money and now we'll have to pay a 2% levy on our insurance for the foreseeable future to pay for how Quinn ran his insurance business into the ground

If it had been ran into the ground so much then why the hell would one of the largest Insurance companies in the world get involved in it?

It is hard to have anything but the height of respect for Jim Mc Guinness. I don't buy into this anti- football argument. He has produced a winning formula and at that level that is all that matters. Football will continue to evolve and develop. We will have some brilliant games and we will have some piss poor ones which is the way it has always been. I will be surprised if this Donegal team do not take Sam in the next 3 years, however this year it is Cork's to lose.