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Their playing careers and being part of a management team that delivered an U21 All Ireland then a senior All Ireland in their first season make Brian Dooher and Fergal Logan Tyrone greats forever. Must be said though, the last two years have been rather shambolic. If you take away their previous achievements and look at those seasons you might well wonder was this management team badly out if its depth at senior inter county level. Can only conclude the new term is based on everything that happened until 2022. That's fair enough. I think they've got a pretty easy ride over the past two seasons though based on their previous achievements. Staying on means they will need to improve massively to avoid very serious questions over their management. That applies to the county board too now.

More importantly on a day like today, thoughts with Art McRory's family on his passing. An incredible servant of Tyrone GAA and a visionary who was instrumental in the rise of the senior county team from also rans to All Ireland contenders. As the banner said, How Great Thou Art. RIP.

Congratulations to the Dubs on another All Ireland, deserving winners.

I think 1 AI in three years and remaining in Div 1 throughout that time  - gives enough credit in bank.
It will be a bit of a rebuild job regardless of who is in the hot seat.

On the surface that looks very good and well worth another term. In reality after year one - and winning that AI was a magnificent effort - Tyrone have been a mess and regressed massively. I could accept a couple of mediocre seasons in other circumstances but there has been no sign of any cohesive plan unfortunately and the team has under performed hugely given the quality of player available. Sorry to say it but I don't see any evidence at all to suggest the current management team deserve more time.

Blasé BS. Why don't you get down to the soecific of why the management are to blame and not the players.
You talk about quality of players.
Should  they have won an All Ireland this year  under different management ?
Should players have been played in different positions}
Should other players have been played iand where? 
Tell us why we didn't win the All Ireland this year

I didn't expect Tyrone to win an All Ireland this year. I did hope to see a well organised team compared to the shambles of last year, a team that would compete well in league and championship. We all know the talent is there and if Tyrone play as they can then they can give any team in the country a game. Instead it was much the same as last year, listless and no obvious gameplan. The only two real positive performances were Kerry in the league and Donegal in the Championship, and Donegal were a mess. We lost in the first round of Ulster from a position of strength. Galway I'll excuse as Frank Burns sold the jerseys. Armagh we almost threw away against 14 men, from a position of strength. Westmeath was a very lucky escape, again when the game was effectively won a few minutes earlier. Then Donegal which gave some false hope, then an embarrassing collapse against Kerry.

You can blame the players if you want, perhaps some did indeed lack the same desire. There was a lack of leadership on the field at times and too often it fell to Mattie Donnelly in particular and a couple of notable others to provide that. Management didn't help on occasion by replacing these leaders with rookies at key times. Even knackered leaders had more to offer in seeing out games. But others on the field need to step up. Ultimately however, it's the responsibility of the management to prepare the team, provide leadership and ensure they get something close to the best out of the players they have at their disposal. Tyrone the last two years were considerably less than the sum of their parts. We didn't expect All Irelands but we didn't expect a string of shambolic performances either. If you believe this was acceptable then fair enough but I'm yet to see anybody make a credible case for the management team getting another chance based on how poor Tyrone have been post 2021. Have a shot if you want and be as specific as you like.

As for the point about Darragh, it's utterly moronic to think he was going to say anything else.

I think 1 AI in three years and remaining in Div 1 throughout that time  - gives enough credit in bank.
It will be a bit of a rebuild job regardless of who is in the hot seat.

On the surface that looks very good and well worth another term. In reality after year one - and winning that AI was a magnificent effort - Tyrone have been a mess and regressed massively. I could accept a couple of mediocre seasons in other circumstances but there has been no sign of any cohesive plan unfortunately and the team has under performed hugely given the quality of player available. Sorry to say it but I don't see any evidence at all to suggest the current management team deserve more time.

You lads complaining about a game 2yrs ago to overlook getting beat out of the field last week.

Not overlooking anything, Kerry were excellent and deservedly hammered a listless Tyrone. Indeed, the margin of defeat flattered Tyrone - it could have been worse. But that wasn't the point being discussed in the last few posts 

I don't understand the Kerry mentality here. How does playing a game 7 days later weaken your chances of playing your best game?

Unfortunately the mentality among some Kerry GAA people is that prominent defeats have to be demeaned in some way or other. Easy enough to pull up plenty examples involving just Tyrone. Spillane's puke football jibe in 2003 which was seized upon, the county chairman the following year with the nauseating comments about Kerry saving football, the narrative pushed by some throughout that decade that it was a system or fitness that saw Tyrone win and that Kerry were the better footballers. And Covid in 2021, surely the strangest one yet given an extra week shouldn't have affected Kerry and Tyrone were still weakened. Kerry bounced back to win All Irelands on these occasions but that wasn't enough for some, they still had to try and talk down and cheapen the defeats suffered previously. Not a good look. But still a better one than using a global pandemic in which millions died for the cheapest of laughs.

There were Kerry folk in this era who stood above this - I remember Ger O'Keefe for example speaking with such class in 2005. Others in the county would do well to follow his example.

Did Paddy Tally just tell the Kerry lads to leave McGeary and O'Neill free and allow them to have the ball as much as they wanted? No threat? Looked that way from the stand anyway #insideknowledge

O'Neill was effective in 2021 in closing down space. He had 11 on his back but he never appeared in attack and indeed you'd need to be watching carefully to see what he contributed, but he put in a power of work and it was effective. Seeing him running with the ball in advanced positions early on Saturday was probably a sign things were already going wrong, surely that wasn't part of Tyrone's plan. If it was part of Kerry's it worked well, clearly that isn't O'Neill's game.

Simply put, Tyrone wouldn't have done that under Mickey. The side from 2015 were putrid and they were a point behind after 60mins. Forget not landing a punch, Tyrone didn't even throw one.

You look at the other sides around the province. Monaghan, Armagh and Derry would all have less talent imo, yet you could argue all are superior.

Tyrone got pummelled by Dublin under Harte. There's enough talent in Tyrone to not have to play limited football. Mickey never trusted or gave his forwards confidence after the 00s. Look how McCurry has performed since. O'Neill, McAliskey and others should have done more in the right environment.

Think Dooher and Logan should probably go, but whatever the question is, Mickey isn't the answer.

Indeed. Mickey had his time and it will never be forgotten but he stayed too long in the end and nobody should seriously contemplate going back to him.

2021 wouldn't have happened had Mickey been in charge. His influence on that group was massive but it was clear that Logan and Dooher gave the team that crucial extra little bit of freedom and belief and it took them up a level. There was also real evidence at that point that Tyrone could improve still further. Unfortunately the team has lacked direction and identity ever since. You could make an argument for 2022 in a way given they had won an unexpected AI  and it was all new to players and management (was still very poor though) but no excuses for another rudderless season this year. Never looked like a team that really knew what it was doing. Too much of an ask after months of extremely patchy performances to think they could suddenly turn it on in Croke Park.

If you had said Logan and Dooher would win 1 AI in a 3 year term most people would have been delighted. They earned their place in Tyrone GAA history. But the subsequent two years after that win were a mess and a change is certainly required.

It was a typical Armagh performance under Geezer. When he has too much time to rethink and over analyse the game the players are completely stifled and yes we can claim some degree of bad luck but we are our own worst enemies. Well done to Monaghan, the bottom line is we didn't do enough to win the match.

The only consolation was seeing the Tyrone fans walk out of the ground before our match with their tail between their legs after Kerry outclassing them and confirming that the 2021 match was an abberation.

Your second paragraph is quite sad if you're really taking any sort of consolation from that. Same with Tyrone ones taking consolation from our loss

It's called banter, they have give out plenty and I think they're well fit to take it.

At least you finally admit your (many) opinions on Tyrone are "banter" and not proper analysis. That's been obvious for a long time.

As for the game, another tough one to take for Armagh. I'd say McGeeney has done a really good job and built a solid team with wasn't a particularly great set of footballers. Obviously hugely frustrating for the fans to lose a few games now on pens but ultimately he's probably getting very close to the maximum out of that group. Somebody else might be able to kick them on very slightly, but equally they might also drop back, possibly a fair bit.

Massive credit to Monaghan, looked in a bad place a few months ago and reaching an AI semi is a great achievement.

Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.

Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.

That was particularly hateful. The other pundits were embarrassed for him.

Kerry are bad losers but even worse winners. Marc O'Shea laughing and joking about covid was extremely poor from him.

Bit like Tomas O Se's words in the Indo this week, real lack of class and just shows how much previous defeats to Tyrone got to those lads. You'd hope somebody would have a word with them, it's not a good look.

Kerry excellent here but Tyrone awful. Game not lost today so much as over the past two years and the lack of direction in the team. It was always a massive ask to hope that a team who have been so patchy could suddenly step up to the extent required. Possible, but unlikely. Dooher and Logan did a fantastic job in 2021 to come in and take Mickey's model and add that little bit of freedom which put the team up a level. Unfortunately Tyrone have been a rudderless ship since and that has to go on the management. They more than earned their place in Tyrone GAA history but with the term up it's time for a change, the panel is capable of much more.

All the credit to Kerry on the day. Defence in particular was excellent and built the foundation for all the good stuff further up. There will be tougher tasks ahead but this level of performance will be extremely hard to beat.

Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.

Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.

It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.

Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.

Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.

What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.

Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.

Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.   

Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.

So now you've moved the debate onto the overall merit of that 2021 Tyrone team and not whether the actual result itself against Kerry was a bolt from the blue or a smash and grab. That's a different argument. Tyrone were a semi final team hovering around that sort of level for a good few years under Mickey Harte but never really looked like winning an AI title. Which is no slight given the strength of Dublin during this era but it was just a matter of fact. I thought their chance had gone after they were beaten in the final in 2018. In 2019 they stayed with a very young Kerry side for a good part of the game but were eventually over ran and deservedly beaten in the end. They wouldn't have beaten Dublin in that final in any case imo. After Harte was ousted I don't think anyone bar the most optimistic of Tyrone supporters, thought they could win an AI title certainly in the short term. To that extent it was a big surprise but the Kerry match itself given how strong they had looked that year was to my mind at least, a bit of a bolt from the blue. But none of that really matters anyway as the history books will show that Tyrone won the AI title in 2021 and you really shouldn't care how it happened or how they measure up against other winners.   

Ultimately yellowcard - and this is based on your posts all year - I fear your personal feelings on Tyrone cloud your judgment to an extent that you can't judge things objectively at all. Either that or your football knowledge is horrific, but I'll be charitable and says it's the former. Regardless, we will never agree so I'll just wish Armagh all the best and hope you get the bolts from the blue, smash and grabs, and goals at the right time that will allow you to compete with the best teams.

The poster that said Tyrone by two or Kerry by 12, I can identify with that. Tyrone are capable of doing it but after such a prolonged spell of patchy form it's a big ask and it could conceivably go badly wrong. Lack of depth off the bench would be a worry for me.

That's a more balanced view of it and I wouldn't disagree with most of it. Dublin had dropped back a fair bit and left an opportunity, Mayo weren't at the same level they had been either. Tyrone had been consistently reaching the latter stages and had (have) some brilliant players, and with a crucial change in approach too they took their chance. It simply doesn't stand up for anyone to suggest they came from nowhere.

Clifford going off might have been crucial right enough. They missed a great goal chance in the first half too, that might have been crucial. Tyrone being reduced to 14 twice when other rather similar decisions weren't punished in the same way might have been crucial. Tyrone's covid hit buildup might have been crucial. We can argue those points, but Tyrone had been building for years and that summer, despite some serious handicaps, beat the reigning Ulster champions, the two other dominant Ulster sides of recent years, then beat Kerry and Mayo. The only side of note they didn't defeat was Dublin because they didn't play them.

Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.

Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.

It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.

Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.

Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.

What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.

Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.

Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.   

Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.

Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.

Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.

It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.

Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.

Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.

What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.