Messages

If it ain't broke don't fix it...Vernon has been great at midfield all year.

With Mother's Day I missed yesterday's match, I almost risked the wrath of God and thought about going. Boy am I glad I saved the brownie points. I can't make up my mind where the problem lies in terms of the management team but as the Boss Paddy must accept responsibility for the failings of all including his players. I have been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until now. Even though his selection to start was questionable, I did think with Jamie and Stevie we had enough scores to win. However to concede 1.20, well??? Says it all. It would be a miracle if that set up beats Down. But under Paddy they have been nothing if not consistent at being inconsistent. A new manager next year I think.

Totally agree. O'Rourke is clueless. People could not understand the decision to appoint him. No wtheir worst fears are coming back to bite.
To compound this, his backroom staff are limited. Game plans are ropey. Training is poor. Players are not happy.

If you named a team with the best players in Armagh, would they have beaten Galway today? This is a stupid thread and should not be on here. I'd say confidently that none of the prats wanting him to leave would have any experience of managing or even playing at a decent level. Playing that is, not part of the panel!!

They are paying to watch Armagh and are therefore entitled to their views. If you don't want to engage in debate I suggest you stick to the Antrim threads.

This has to be a wind up, AK on the bench....Watters? Mackin? Murtagh? Maybe he is just giving them a run but with Down two competitive matches away?

Is there not a difference between joining the British Army before the GFA and after it?

Nobody can argue we are now at war with Britain. They are a friend and ally. The northern situation is far from ideal but we've all voted on it and a conclusion has been reached that in theory allows for a United Ireland in the future. Compromise has been reached by the governments which has been accepted in referendum by the people, so we move on.

So why shouldnt an Irish person join the army of an ally, especially the guy who has always loved fighter jets? He can't do that in Ireland. Plenty of Irish also join the US forces, and I'm sure there's some who join armies in Europe - these days is there any difference between that and people joining the British army?

I think probably not if you look at it like that. However to many of us in the north the British Army was an oppressive presence, one that killed innocent Catholics, searched our cars and stopped us on our way to matches because we were armed with hurls and O'Neills Footballs, we where therefore acting in a subversive manner. That memory still is fresh. But hey if some one wants to get killed as a pawn in what Steve Earle puts as "a richmans war"...So be it.

Poc me I forgot they kept the best chocolate as well!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting debate, I never imagined that our Southern Fellow Country Men would take offence at the term Free State...See my previous posts as to why...But the thought did occur that perhaps it was out of some form of guilt albeit subconscious guilt about allegedly abandoning us Nordies to the Unionist wolves? Not that I believe that was the case as partition was always considered to be a temporary solution to the "Irish problem" by all concerned but our Unionist Fellow Countrymen as is their wont have been hard to shift...

People of the area that UTV covers (POTATUC)

If a lad from POTATUC originally now lives in the area that RTE covers how is he/she referred to as.

Say they live near Mizen Head - as far 'Site' as you can go, give or take.

Do lads who refer to the 26 counties as the "Free State" also assume the Treaty Ports are still British?

Grape or Grain?

Either way you solved it.

Are ye POTATUC lads ok with being called POTATUC lads?

We can be: People of the area south of that area that UTV covers (POTASOTATUC)

UTV covers about 70/80 % of the Island are you calling for repartition? Bye Bye Kerry...

i would never have thought of free state as an insult, it evokes that sense of freedom that we in the north yearn for

It was always referred to as that by the older generations as that is what they knew it as, my granda would aways have referred to as 'down in the free state' and the jealousy and envy would spark at the mention of these words that to us in the north equalled freedom.

it is something any southerner should be proud of imho

Very interesting. A perspective I never would have thought of to be honest.
It's out of date now anyway, and an annoyance as much as anything, but interesting to see that for many who used it, it was a term of envy or aspiration rather than a dig/insult.

Exactly what I was saying and got slated for it.

I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 

What is it with republican's about how many/how long people have died for their cause being some kind of metric?

I can think of many a political idealogy or goal that people have died for.

The validity of the Republic of Ireland as a state has been tested and accepted electorally, including 1998 in an All-Ireland context.

It is quite reasonable to use that as a barometer ahead of number of deaths for a cause.

As for the term FreeStater, it has been used by many as derogatory term.  Interestingly you append your denial with an explanation that you will never accept the formal status of our state, something that doesn't fit well we your preceeding claims.

/Jim.

I have to admit I've referred to the ROI as the Free State, completely oblivious to the fact that it is considered offensive. Now that I know I can be more selective as to when I use it. That said I think we are all throwing tantrums over words when really it is context that determines the insult.

Nordies saying the southerners are "Free-staters" is (for some people) the same as the Southerners calling people in the north "Brits".

From now on, im calling all the "nordies" on the board either "Brits", "Britons", "Anglo-Saxon" or "ye English"


After all its just a term isnt it ye shower of Brits?

You're obviously a Fine Gael voter.

Or maybe you just don't know people from the 26 counties find that term offensive as it is the Irish Republic.

Why? You were originally the Irish Free State. It is a term spoken out of envy in this part of the world.

It comes across as a clear denial of the correct status of the Irish State as a Republic. It comes across as a bitter comment on the people of the Republic, who are 100% Irish (as you) and who don't deserve your nasty attitude for just living their lifes. By the way we were Southern Ireland for a few weeks before being the Irish Free State, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland before that, the Kingdom of Ireland before that and the Lordship of Ireland before that. So it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties. It can get a bit tiring when everything someone from the Republic says is screamed down as bigoted or partitionist, but people from the 6 counties can shout Mexican, FreeStater, WestBrits etc. and find it perfectly acceptable.

We've been through this argument countless times, when will freestaters get it through their thick heads that people in the north refer to the south as the "freestate" and the people there as "freestaters" and the easiest term to use, it's not said with bitterness or anything else. Could you engage your brain for a minute to get that through?
You want people to call the 26 counties Ireland or Eire? What does that make the 6 counties? If someone says Ireland or Eire to me I assume they're talking about 32 counties. 
I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 
I suggest you don't be so sensitive.

"Freestater" is certainly a perjorative term and everyone knows it.  You only have to say it once to any southerner to see how it pisses them off, so you are being disingenuous here.

It pisses some of them off because they perceive it to be something it's not.
How would you refer to someone from the 26 counties? What would you call them?

As for being disingenuous - if I used it as a term of abuse I would say so.  Is there anything to make you think I'd have any problem with that?

OK - you didn't think it was insulting. But you know now it is insulting to large numbers of people. I assume you wouldn't want to disrespect them and therefore you'll stop using it.

No, I suggest those that get insulted by it realise that there is generally no deep dark motives behind the use of the word and get on with their lives. 
What would you prefer to be referred to as?

No? Fine. Your protestations of not intending to insult are pretty hollow, then. People have told you the term is offensive. You think it's OK to decide for yourself it's not and continue to insult them, knowing they find it offensive and why.

Try it with the "n" word and tell me the difference, should you decide for your own part that you don't mean it as offensive. Would you walk into a Harlem bar and say "hi n*****s"?

(I don't care what you refer to me as).

I actually don't mind being a Nordie as long as it includes Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, oh and North Louth.

Or maybe you just don't know people from the 26 counties find that term offensive as it is the Irish Republic.

Why? You were originally the Irish Free State. It is a term spoken out of envy in this part of the world.

It comes across as a clear denial of the correct status of the Irish State as a Republic. It comes across as a bitter comment on the people of the Republic, who are 100% Irish (as you) and who don't deserve your nasty attitude for just living their lifes. By the way we were Southern Ireland for a few weeks before being the Irish Free State, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland before that, the Kingdom of Ireland before that and the Lordship of Ireland before that. So it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties. It can get a bit tiring when everything someone from the Republic says is screamed down as bigoted or partitionist, but people from the 6 counties can shout Mexican, FreeStater, WestBrits etc. and find it perfectly acceptable.

Sorry where was I nasty? No where did I deny anybody's right to be Irish or enfer that people from The Republic aren't. All I stated was that when Northerners refer to it as the Free State is out of envy of your ability to control your own affairs.

Unlike some of my fellow Nordies (now I wonder should we take issue over the us of this terminology?) I don't deny the 26 counties the right to refer to itself as a Republic...I don't see how that precludes the 6 from joining up to make a 32 County Republic. although given the way things are going I would suggest that should Ireland be Re-united it will probably be as a Federal State.

[Stephen is good at winning primary possesion and good with break ball to]

Hard to believe that Tony Kernan is on the panel ahead of Stephen.  Going by the Ulster all ireland club series stephen looked by far the classier player and performed in what is a problem position for the county.

Both should have been there, there is more scores in tony but Stephen is good at winning primary possesion and good with break ball to, although he can be wasteful. But Donal Murtagh always seemed to have  with him even at Cross where he was in and out and rarely got a starting number.

Your just picked stephen's two biggest weaknesses. A ball winner he is not. But when he gets the ball he can certainly play and create. His problem in previous incarnations has been getting enough ball in his hands to be effective.

You obviously didn't watch Cross' Championship games SK won loads of possession but sometimes the passes were misplaced or wrong options taken. Still should be there. IMO

Hard to believe that Tony Kernan is on the panel ahead of Stephen.  Going by the Ulster all ireland club series stephen looked by far the classier player and performed in what is a problem position for the county.

Both should have been there, there is more scores in tony but Stephen is good at winning primary possesion and good with break ball to, although he can be wasteful. But Donal Murtagh always seemed to have  with him even at Cross where he was in and out and rarely got a starting number.