Messages

I 100% agree with you on another day Kerry maybe would have come off second best in that Semi-Final. However McKaigue committed the same exact foul (Jersey pull) multiple times and was lucky too.

But we are discussing The AIF here. Some people on here seem to be off the opinion that "as long as The Ref gets most things right  its ok" or "sure Kerry are dirty too".

The bullshit that gets put out "GAA has gone soft" ,"You can't be physical" or "he was going for the ball" is just a cowards way of justifying cheap shots.

There has been a push from.within The GAA to put Dublin at the top of the pile via unfair financial aid, competition bias & it now appears to have filtered down to our Referees.
Keep Dublin happy & they keep getting the big gigs. But dare to punish them, even when they appear to cross the line then it's goodbye to the paydays and celebrity.

What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.

Head high challenges

Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking

I get why people might think that McCarthy should have been put off but there were not two straight red card offences in that game or everyone would be talking about it. Red for persistent fouling maybe but two straight reds no. Otherwise why wasn't it being talked about by everyone?

Exactly. Some haven't got over their disappointment yet and I understand that. Time is a sort of healer. What we really need to avoid is expecting ever ref to get every call right, in one viewing and in a split second. Impossible.

Who said McCarthy had a single red card offence?  He definitely was guilty of numerous challenges that normally would be generally accepted as Yellow/Black Card offences. The accumulation would have resulted in him being sidelined as per the rules of the game.

Nobody is yet to explain how Gough and his officials missed Costello throwing a punch and getting away with it?

I actually like Gough as a Referee but when he is put in charge of The Dubs in pressure games he has a tendency to let them cross the line.

It is well documented that he was effectively their In house Referee
The GAA should have more cop on and stop making problems for itself.

He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card

WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.

Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.

Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.

Tell ya what, I'll watch it back when I get a chance, maybe tonight when she's off with the daughter to watch Barbie ffs! I'll tally the frees/advantages he gave, I'll note ones I'd give that he didn't and see where that takes us..

I'd be a physical enough type ref, so I tend to let things go a bit, didn't realise the Down ones were a bit soft

Nothing soft about us MR2. Just prefer the rules to be applied fairly & consistently. But go ahead, see how you get on trying to justify him getting things blatantly wrong. If you think Im the only one maybe see what Enda McGinley had to say on it. He must be soft too!

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall. 

The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.

I am Down Man who had no horse in the race. Like others I tuned in to see a good competitive final between the two best teams in the country.

There is nothing unusual about it!  The major decisions in the game all went Dublin's way. If you disagree go and watch the game back and come back to me. And when you do if you still think in a two point game they didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game then you are deluded.

You are correct Refereeing is not an exact science. But this is The All-Ireland Final so forgive me if I disagree and say that you are wrong. David Gough should get the big decisions right, not hope to. On Sunday past he didn't.

As I said, watch it back and come back to me.

The BBC coverage was ok. Oisín McConville is excellent but Thomas Niblock was repetitive in a lot of his commentary and over egging it at times.

It doesn't need to be described as a brilliant point or magnificent score if its a straight forward shot. Less is more sometimes.

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

I'd say that if me and you sat down to do a rules test that I'd come out on top, I'd say if Gough and me sat down to do a rules test, he'd better my score, any ref that is intercounty they have to get 95% I think, club refs 85%

I've played the game, both codes well into my 40's from juvenile to senior so I'm fairly confident on the game, you said he did not consult his umpires, how do you know? These guys are on a live feed and speaking to their umpires/linesmen flat out throughout the game, but you know better?

You are trying to apply black and white, its not like that, and if you played the game, you'd understand that. Everyone knows the rules when they goggle it

Nice assumptions there, but you are avoiding the elephant in the room. Should McCarthy have been on the pitch? Did he influence the outcome of the game by remaining on the pitch?

If the answer to the first question is no then Gough f*cked up, regardless or not if he would better either you or me in some rules test.

On your second point about constant communication with his fellow officials, you and I both know that if we were a Kerry player on Sunday and that was the only decision he actively went to seek opinion from The Umpires, you would be livid. Costello strike was pretty obvious as was McCarthy's numerous yellow card offences.

So whether you like it or not, knowing the rulebook inside out and applying it fairly and consistently are two very different things.

The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?

Jesus Christ Lad!  Dropping or fumbling the ball is not a bounce.

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

On balance, Dublin deserved to win that game.
Clifford really didn't have his best game but still set up the goal.
Personally I thought it was an average enough game in terms of quality.
If it had been 2 ulster teams serving up that match the state of gaelic football is probably the only thing that would be mentioned.
It was exciting in terms of how close it was, but it was a game of 2 defences in my view. Both defences did really well and the turnovers at both ends supports that.
But in terms of attacking flair, I thought it was quite flat.

Some achievement for the dubs, 9 ai medals is unbelievable.

How did Dublin "deserve" to win exactly? Kerry were wasteful yes but if your telling me David Gough did not have influence over that 2 point margin then we must have watched different games.

People give off about The JP McManus money in Limerick!  Dublin have benefited from favoutism from The GAA for years before you even take into account that their "in house" referee just also happens to be the All-Ireland Final Ref? As a neutral it's embarassing that we as an organisation look down upon other sporting codes  & claim some sort of Amateur Sporting superiority.

Dublin have had more than a helping hand from headquarters in recent years.

Deserved because I feel they played better and their subs had more of an impact than the Kerry subs.
They also kept the best player of all time shackled.

I thought gough did a good job.  All the big calls right. Yellows when deserved. Didn't miss any obvious blacks.
Prob a few mistakes for frees but not favouring any team.
So I'm not sure what game you watched..

If Clifford had played like that against derry, we'd have easily made the final.

I watched the game were James McCarthy gave away blatant free after blatant free yet went unpunished in terms of the rules of the game. I watched the game were the same player made deliberate contact with opponents faces on multiple plays yet somehow only managed to end with a single yellow card.

I watched from the Hogan as Clifford was dragged and fouled all day yet the one time he is awareded a free inside he is also booked.

Gough won it for The Dubs & was more blatantly obvious than previous years. Its not a level playing field when you get Dublin in the latter stages.

I think you've got kerry blinkers on there chap, no harm.
I've no skin in the game, there was as much from one side as there was the other.
Kerry are hardly shrinking violets, look what the did to Shane mcguigan in the sf for example. They also had a very favorable ref in the sf. But the ref didn't win the game for them against derry and he didn't win it for Dublin today either.
The losing of the game was a mistake that led to a Dublin goal, Clifford missing a number of scorable kicks and not passing when he should have and kerry not pushing on when they were 3 up.

I'll not argue about Dublin having an unfair advantage every year, every game a home game and arguably more finance than every other county and certainly a larger pick than every other county.
But it's still 15 v15 on the field.
Kerry have a handy run every year to a qf or sf, so it's a bit rich to hear about Dublin having advantages over kerry. Lol.

So your counter argument is to bring up decisions and a Ref in a previous game "Chap"?

If you think McCarthy was not favourably allowed to remain on the field of play in contradition of the rules of the game then you are the one with blinkers on.

On balance, Dublin deserved to win that game.
Clifford really didn't have his best game but still set up the goal.
Personally I thought it was an average enough game in terms of quality.
If it had been 2 ulster teams serving up that match the state of gaelic football is probably the only thing that would be mentioned.
It was exciting in terms of how close it was, but it was a game of 2 defences in my view. Both defences did really well and the turnovers at both ends supports that.
But in terms of attacking flair, I thought it was quite flat.

Some achievement for the dubs, 9 ai medals is unbelievable.

How did Dublin "deserve" to win exactly? Kerry were wasteful yes but if your telling me David Gough did not have influence over that 2 point margin then we must have watched different games.

People give off about The JP McManus money in Limerick!  Dublin have benefited from favoutism from The GAA for years before you even take into account that their "in house" referee just also happens to be the All-Ireland Final Ref? As a neutral it's embarassing that we as an organisation look down upon other sporting codes  & claim some sort of Amateur Sporting superiority.

Dublin have had more than a helping hand from headquarters in recent years.

Deserved because I feel they played better and their subs had more of an impact than the Kerry subs.
They also kept the best player of all time shackled.

I thought gough did a good job.  All the big calls right. Yellows when deserved. Didn't miss any obvious blacks.
Prob a few mistakes for frees but not favouring any team.
So I'm not sure what game you watched..

If Clifford had played like that against derry, we'd have easily made the final.

I watched the game were James McCarthy gave away blatant free after blatant free yet went unpunished in terms of the rules of the game. I watched the game were the same player made deliberate contact with opponents faces on multiple plays yet somehow only managed to end with a single yellow card.

I watched from the Hogan as Clifford was dragged and fouled all day yet the one time he is awareded a free inside he is also booked.

Gough won it for The Dubs & was more blatantly obvious than previous years. Its not a level playing field when you get Dublin in the latter stages.

...

RTÉ all the way in our house!

Trumpeted like a badge of honour!? WTF?

It's more a signal issue than a preference Lad!  Relax!

[we as an organisation look down upon other sporting codes & claim some sort of Amateur Sporting superiority.]

On balance, Dublin deserved to win that game.
Clifford really didn't have his best game but still set up the goal.
Personally I thought it was an average enough game in terms of quality.
If it had been 2 ulster teams serving up that match the state of gaelic football is probably the only thing that would be mentioned.
It was exciting in terms of how close it was, but it was a game of 2 defences in my view. Both defences did really well and the turnovers at both ends supports that.
But in terms of attacking flair, I thought it was quite flat.

Some achievement for the dubs, 9 ai medals is unbelievable.

How did Dublin "deserve" to win exactly? Kerry were wasteful yes but if your telling me David Gough did not have influence over that 2 point margin then we must have watched different games.

People give off about The JP McManus money in Limerick!  Dublin have benefited from favoutism from The GAA for years before you even take into account that their "in house" referee just also happens to be the All-Ireland Final Ref? As a neutral it's embarassing that we as an organisation look down upon other sporting codes  & claim some sort of Amateur Sporting superiority.

Dublin have had more than a helping hand from headquarters in recent years.

Hope you weren't watching the BBC coverage today.

RTÉ all the way in our house!

On balance, Dublin deserved to win that game.
Clifford really didn't have his best game but still set up the goal.
Personally I thought it was an average enough game in terms of quality.
If it had been 2 ulster teams serving up that match the state of gaelic football is probably the only thing that would be mentioned.
It was exciting in terms of how close it was, but it was a game of 2 defences in my view. Both defences did really well and the turnovers at both ends supports that.
But in terms of attacking flair, I thought it was quite flat.

Some achievement for the dubs, 9 ai medals is unbelievable.

How did Dublin "deserve" to win exactly? Kerry were wasteful yes but if your telling me David Gough did not have influence over that 2 point margin then we must have watched different games.

People give off about The JP McManus money in Limerick!  Dublin have benefited from favoutism from The GAA for years before you even take into account that their "in house" referee just also happens to be the All-Ireland Final Ref? As a neutral it's embarassing that we as an organisation look down upon other sporting codes  & claim some sort of Amateur Sporting superiority.

Dublin have had more than a helping hand from headquarters in recent years.

Congratulations to David Gough on his All-Ireland win.
That was nothing short of a disgrace.
James McCarthy must be a relative.

As a neutral thought he gave kerry most of the advantage however McCarty should have been black carded in the first half.

As a neutral I wouldnt agree. Gough had a hand in at least three two point swings for Dublin.
Kerry werent allowed near McCaffrey in the tackle. Clifford wins a free and gets booked & McCarthy has at least three high tackles but gets booked for one?

Gough keeps Dublin in games and allows them to get away with breaking the rules constantly.