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Ballyhaiseman's post regarding a new football championship format forms the basis of the only fair and equitable way forward. The current system is totally loaded in favour of the two smaller and often the two least competitive provinces of Connacht and Munster. Both Mickey Harte and Jack O'Connor have made valid comments about the unfairness of the present system with regards to provincial winners. However if they are really concerned about inequality and injustice  for all counties they would come to only one conclusion. This would mean that the current provincial championship would be abolished and that a league championship format would be created along the lines of my good Cavan friend.

whilst I agree it is loaded in favour of the provinces you mentioned (especially kerry/cork as it has always been), I disagree that this is a good enough reason for giving up the tradition of our provincial competitions. We should not ever become "champions league" type format in my view just because some of the other provinces are less competitive. We are worldly unique in our structure and long may it remain so. Some things shouldn't be slain on the altar of "change". We all breath the same air, have the same ability to train our teams and build our own traditions. It just takes hard work to catch up with the leaders of the time. thinking that a structural change is gonna work is deluding ourselves. It's the passion and energy in your county that dictates your success, nothing else. All imo so feel free to tear my thoughts to pieces!

[They're treated much better now, but they'd to fight tooth and nail for the most simple of things.]

Reillers, no probs with most of that. I've already stated and will again I have no problem with lads making a few quid out of playing the game at the highest level or whatever level if they do a deal with a sponsor or whatever. At the end of the day these lads are role models for our society and their images rights should not be taken from them. That has always existed in some shape or form, even from generations ago. We can all quote examples of fellas who would not be as succssful as they are today had they not played Gaelic Games. We all have to do what we have to do.

I only refer you to my last post. That is the difference in the two "camps" here.

ps F**k the begrudgers (but this is not where I am coming from)

BUt again, they argued hard in the Premiership soccer fiasco with your man John Terry, with the affair he had, now I've no time for these brats, or much for the game itself, but some papers went on about why should they been seen as role models, unfair pressure on them, they're just sportsmen..etc.
Which I think is bullshit because they get paid as much as they do, they should behave themselves and should act like the role models that they are to so many young lads across the globe.

So you could argue that it's a bit much to demand that a handful of amateur players do the same, they're not professional players..etc.
But they still do, they still wear their jersey, club or IC, with pride and as role models. And you never hear of them in the papers like you hear about some of those brats in the Premiership. They do it with more passion and respect it more because that jersey means more to them than it would ever to a soccer lad who goes where their biggest wage is.

But we demand a professional attitude, a professional performance, nothing but 100% and nothing, if you're from a top county, but success. Yet for a long time, and still today they are treated like crap, you can't expect them to be professional in every sense of the word and treat them like crap off the pitch. They're treated much better now, but they'd to fight tooth and nail for the most simple of things.

didn't we all boy, didn't we all...

Reillers, no probs with most of that. I've already stated and will again I have no problem with lads making a few quid out of playing the game at the highest level or whatever level if they do a deal with a sponsor or whatever. At the end of the day these lads are role models for our society and their images rights should not be taken from them. That has always existed in some shape or form, even from generations ago. We can all quote examples of fellas who would not be as successful as they are today had they not played Gaelic Games. We all have to do what we have to do.

I only refer you to my last post. That is the difference in the two "camps" here.

ps F**k the begrudgers (but this is not where I am coming from)

[I support the GPA and I would have no problem with players getting paid if we could afford to]

I've no doubt some lads would love to see it go pro and I can understand that but we can't afford it and there isn't a mechanism whereby we could. I support the GPA and I would have no problem with players getting paid if we could afford to and the competition structures didn't vary too far from what we have. But that isn't possible so we shouldn't be worrying about this and we shouldn't eye the GPA with suspicion and deal with them in a "if we give an inch they'll take a mile" manner. We should simply deal with player welfare in a mature and reasoned way because the IC players are very important and we'd be foolish to battle with our most talented and committed players on the basis of some doom merchants predicting the end of the GAA.

This is the heart of the issue. You are happy to place the future of our organisation in the hands of economic matters. I am not. I think it is too important an institution to be directed purely by what is affordable and what is not. We have enough of that in our daily lives. The GAA is our escape from that.

This is the only difference between us and, at a guess, I would say it is at the source of most of the disagreements on here.

ok lad, you and I could argue points from now til next year. We'd still probably disagree. It's clear we're both GAA people who feel strongly about the association.

I'll be honest. The GPA thing scares the bejasus outta me as to where it could put us in 20 years. I want my children to have the same experience that I did. I do not want us to be akin to the IRFU in any way shape or form.

We all take pride in the likes of Munster and Leinster doing well but their decision to go pro and promote an elite band of players flies 100% in what the GAA is about. They've destroyed their club structures and competitions. But they probably took the right decision for them. It's not for us. Never will be.

I agree some county boards build "bertie bowls". I hate that too. but I also have a very valid point about upgrading grounds to do with health and safety and ensuring facilities are there for future generations. It doesn't mean they don't also want player welfare.

There are those in the GPA who would like to see the games go pro. The title of this thread bears testamount to that. I don't believe all do. But we need to be very very vigilant in terms of this. It's an attractive carrot in many ways for the elite spectrum. TV rights money etc etc.

We've all seen what greed did to this country. Don't let it infect the most important organisation in this country. The GAA isn't perfect, never will be. But noone else has anything close.

Because no players body could look after all players, so they representing the IC players who are raising huge sums of money for the GAA and for many years were treated abysmally. The GPA have stated that they would like to expand their remit to club players also but I'm not sure what they could do as every county runs its affairs differently.

And every county runs the affairs of its intercounty teams differently. What's your point?

So you object to a section of the GAA playing population being looked after rather than embracing that and looking for it to be expanded to more players, a strange attitude.

Read my later post. There are already welfare schemes run by Croke Park for Club players. Players out injured are currently entitled to claim some money in compensation for want of a better word.  You seem to suggest that county players are currently badly treated. Hands up all those that are...

I'm not sure you'd hold the same attitude if there was 80K going to your matches, anyway the players aren't getting money but simply improved welfare issues, they deserve that at least.

Well if you're not sure, let me reassure you. I wouldn't and I know many lads who don't.

If welfare issues are to dealt with then money will have to be spent and if you want to question GAA spending, county grounds developments would be a more sensible target for a start.

County ground developments? So you think these are needless wastes of money? You have obviously not read too much about health and safety criteria in modern stadia. Granted it's not the most sexy topic in the world but some eejits need to think about this.

Personally I'd like to see more money spent on youth development schemes, coaches and promotion of our games but that's just me.

From the (new) GPA website:The mission statement of the organisation reads "The GPA is committed to protecting and promoting all aspects of player welfare and to the provision of a collective voice for inter-county players."

By focusing solely on inter-county players, the GPA completely contradict the very ethos of the GAA. Why single out one tiny percentage of people playing gaelic games? You seriously have to ask yourself why this is the case.

Even the name is a misnomer. It should be called inter-county gaelic players association. If it were for all players, I would have no problem with it whatsoever. Its stated aims seem noble. However, when you get into the segregation of "elite" players getting special treatment, you need to begin to question the motives.

There is no doubting the huge sacrifices that players make. However, there are huge sacrifices made by many in the association including reduced time with family etc but we do it for one reason and one reason only. I am personally out of pocket for time I spent on GAA matters. However, I would not want one single penny for it. Call it a grant, call it whatever you want, I personally wouldn't take it.

I mean, they demanded a percentage of GAA income in recent negotiations. I just cannot fathom that. If you do that, you take money from our clubs, you take money from our youth development projects. Who exactly benefits? and is the wider goal of the GAA served?

Players should be well looked after but ALL players equally.

I agree that all players should be looked after from club to IC players, but in reality they're not, while it's not ideal, I'm not going to be bitter like a lot of people because the IC players are trying to get themselves looked after, and the "special treatment" I wonder what you think this special treatment is, because certain people on here are under the illusion that they get treated like professional soccer players, when they don't.
At the end of the day. The GAA have a long history of treating people and clubs like crap. With the GPA, that's one less group that are being mistreated. And I'm not going to be bitter and jealous because of that, unlike a lot of people.

And I'm not going to get absolutely hysterical if they get a car out of it, or say get a nice sponsorship from the likes of Adidas out of it, or whatever. You get by how you can. And I'm not going to begrudge them for that just because I don't get the "special treatment" so many of ye fantasise about.

Instead a lot of people have that attitude of..why should they get it when we don't. Times are hard enough as it is.

Hand on heart, there is no bitterness or jealousy involved (on my part anyway). I don't begrudge people doing deals with sponsors either. If the demand is there, fair play and more power to those lads.

My only concern is the future direction of our association. Perhaps some of the "anti-GPA" reaction is over the top, but it's only a sign of how much people care and want to preserve the unique organisation that we have.

It's up to each county board and club to look after their own players. There are insurance schemes already run by Croke Park for Club players. County Boards pay medical and physio bills for intercounty players. There is a healthy supply of training gear. Players are fed and watered after training etc etc. If that's not the case in all counties, it should be, and should be policed by central council.

What else do people want?

Now let's look at what the GPA state that they provide:

"Career Development & Interview Preparation"
"Educational Advice"

Lads, I don't mean to be flippant but jasus christ! what are schools for? what are universities for? what are government employment agencies for?

"Personal Counselling"
what are health services for?

I know plenty of intercounty players who physically cringe when they read this stuff. It treats them like some poor critter who, because he spent his whole youth playing Gaelic Games, is fit to do nothing else.

Does anyone really buy into this bullshit?

From the (new) GPA website:The mission statement of the organisation reads "The GPA is committed to protecting and promoting all aspects of player welfare and to the provision of a collective voice for inter-county players."

By focusing solely on inter-county players, the GPA completely contradict the very ethos of the GAA. Why single out one tiny percentage of people playing gaelic games? You seriously have to ask yourself why this is the case.

Even the name is a misnomer. It should be called inter-county gaelic players association. If it were for all players, I would have no problem with it whatsoever. Its stated aims seem noble. However, when you get into the segregation of "elite" players getting special treatment, you need to begin to question the motives.

There is no doubting the huge sacrifices that players make. However, there are huge sacrifices made by many in the association including reduced time with family etc but we do it for one reason and one reason only. I am personally out of pocket for time I spent on GAA matters. However, I would not want one single penny for it. Call it a grant, call it whatever you want, I personally wouldn't take it.

I mean, they demanded a percentage of GAA income in recent negotiations. I just cannot fathom that. If you do that, you take money from our clubs, you take money from our youth development projects. Who exactly benefits? and is the wider goal of the GAA served?

Players should be well looked after but ALL players equally.

Dessie Farrell on professionalism, 2002:

"We need to crawl before we can walk and also in the current climate the expense rate is more acceptable in media circles as how we are perceived is very important at present."

"Having said that, it should not prevent us from harbouring private opinions on this with long-term objectives. At the moment though, let's take it one battle at a time until the war is won".

That it some gem of a quote!
Farrell has learned to keep his keep mouth shut since then.

Exactly...I knew I heard that fecker say that before. He said it more recent than that too. Lads, if If it looks like shit, smells like shit...it's probably shit...I cannot believe how stupid and short sighted these people are.

I'd say paddy o'rourke is asking the same thing

corner, middle, same thing these days...he'll not play on the 40 is what I mean. I hope he does though...

mc bride prob best man marker bar g o kane in team but hel be needed at wing half. if mc donells in the corner then mcbride will def mark him. mc guckian would be my choice also but i think cassidy would put mcbride on him. declan mullan will be fit but hasn played much football. id still have him at wing half forward, derry need more like him! still think derry will do it

I think mcbride is a good player but not strong enough to cope with mcdonnell. kevin has the experience. stevie's not got the place he used to so unless they bring him out the field to link with Clarke (not there this time) like they did v tyrone last year (plan that failed and was too predictable), he'll be in the corner. That's where mcguckian rules the roost. Cassidy be mad to put any one else on him (imo) unless he thinks mcbride can do him for pace and occupy him by driving forward. Don't think so though.

When Derry won in the qualifiers we had a very strong full line with mccloy at his peak and motm. Time after time the ball came straight out again from our full back line and that's why we won.

In a way we were set up to play Armagh their with the high diagonal ball.

Gonna be different this time as we don't have the full backs. That's where the manager has to earn his corn with a defensive strategy to cover up the weaknesses.

d mc bride to mark stevie mc d. j clarke as overrated as iv ever seen. wasnt up to much for jtown this year never mind county football. derry by 2.

I'd give Kevin McGuckian that job. Kevin's been taking her easy in prep for this. Like tommy freeman last year, Stevie won't get a kick.

jarlath seems to love down for some reason. always gets wile excited about down in feb or march time. every year it happens. very strange. like joe brolly and tyrone. there's two men know about fish suppers.

now you're talking man!! you're right...that's what all the indicators are saying. I don't know why Jarlath Burns can't see that. He thinks Derry are shite and Armagh are shoe-ins.