Well there's one for every other county and I see Gilligan is being nominated now too so it should get interesting ...
Can you interview a man who is being charged with disrepute or do you deal with the interview and charge at the one meeting?
Anyway ... names in the hat as of now in suggested order of betting are ...
- Damien Cassidy - no backroom team suggested
- John Brennan - no backroom team suggested ... possibly with Henry Downey?
- Baker Bradley - possibly with Kevin Madden?
- Brian McGilligan - no backroom team suggested
Others?
Brian McGilligan you're not serious are you?? I would be happy with Cassidy or Brennan.
Was there not a case where Damian Barton was refused a final interview the last time because he was suspended as a manager. Im asking this because if the Derry Board are consistent and they suspend as it appears they are going to do with Mc Gilligan they they could be suspending a man from their own interviews which in my opinion would be a flawed farcical process. I have heard from a source that Mc Gilligan is the type of figure required for this job - because nobody in the team would be bigger than Brian Mc Gilligan - should be an interesting one.
Heard the other day that the co board are not going to suspend McGilligan (and Conway).
Would they not have to speak to them first though?
They did charge them after all.
get Mc Gilligan in with Conway as his wingman!! That would be hilarious, S.Mc Cloy would sh*T himself!
Quote from: robertemmet on September 09, 2008, 01:55:27 PM
Heard the other day that the co board are not going to suspend McGilligan (and Conway).
How in hell could they ?
Orangeman, I'm not saying they "could" suspend them.
Just heard the other day that they are not going to suspend them despite notifying all the clubs a while back that they were going to throw the book at them.
I am amazed at the total lack of ambition and forward thinking by the Derry county board if that is anything like a definitive short list of potential managers.
Cassidy seems to be the fore-runner yet his CV appears to consist of a solitary Tyrone under-21 title - a sorry return for the six figures plus he has trousered over the years.
Brennan's CV, on the other hand seems impressive (senior titles with four clubs in three counties), but doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. Three of the four clubs (Cargin, Lavey and Carrickmore) won senior titles, with basically the same squads and different managers. The one exception, Slaughtneil, he wasn't even first choice for that role , only being considered after at least one other high profile candidate was approached. I have spoken to a member of the Slaughtneil squad and he tells me that half the time he couldn't understand a word Brennan was saying and that the other half he couldn't undertsand the point he was trying to make. A Cargin boy tells me that their subs were instructed, when warming up, to run into opposing managers. Excellent tactics for any team.
Bradley would be a foolish choice, Kevin Madden was the man at Glenullin last year and with two (loose cannons of) sons on the squad, it would be impossible for Bradley, even if he were a rational man. Whichhe isn't.
Barton, like Cassidy, another man whose income appears inversely proportional to his talent and the success of his teams.
McGilligan, whilst he has proven that he will take the job for the right reasons, does not have any football managerial experience, so shouldn't be considered.
Whilst I don't rate McIver or Jody Gormley, I think either would be a much better appointment. As indeed would Madden, Martin McHugh, Sean McGoldrick, Tony Scullion, Lynchbhoy or Peter Canavan.
Mediocrity, it would appear, will reign in the Oak Leaf.
Would love to see Brennan get the job.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 09, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
Bradley would be a foolish choice, Kevin Madden was the man at Glenullin last year and with two (loose cannons of) sons on the squad, it would be impossible for Bradley, even if he were a rational man. Whichhe isn't.
im no fan of bradleys but this is balls
madden did nothing this year with a better glenullion team than bradley started with a few years ago
any time i saw him this year madden looked as if was panicking all the time and was inept against slaughtneil
mcgilligan is the man for the job along with kelly and maybe a tokemn south derry man ;)
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 09, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
McGilligan, whilst he has proven that he will take the job for the right reasons, does not have any football managerial experience, so shouldn't be considered.
I heard that Sean Boylan was a hurling man rather than a footballer. I don't know if this is correct but if it is he did ok as a football manager. McGilligan won an All Ireland medal for football himself and he certainly appears to have the credentials to be a good manager even if his experience of management has been in hurling.
Quote from: thebuzz on September 09, 2008, 09:56:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 09, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
McGilligan, whilst he has proven that he will take the job for the right reasons, does not have any football managerial experience, so shouldn't be considered.
I heard that Sean Boylan was a hurling man rather than a footballer. I don't know if this is correct but if it is he did ok as a football manager. McGilligan won an All Ireland medal for football himself and he certainly appears to have the credentials to be a good manager even if his experience of management has been in hurling.
Good point, you're right. Boylan was a hurling man. Go with McGilligan and Scullion then.
Quote from: gaagaa on September 09, 2008, 09:08:56 PM
im no fan of bradleys but this is balls
madden did nothing this year with a better glenullion team than bradley started with a few years ago
any time i saw him this year madden looked as if was panicking all the time and was inept against slaughtneil
mcgilligan is the man for the job along with kelly and maybe a tokemn south derry man ;)
What evidence have you that McGilligan could do the job along with Kelly and if they add a token south derry man then you will end up with a token Derry team made up of northern footballers and wanabe hurlers, sounds like some progress >:( :( :o
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 09, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
I am amazed at the total lack of ambition and forward thinking by the Derry county board if that is anything like a definitive short list of potential managers.
Cassite seems to be the fore-runner yet his CV appears to consist of a solitary Tyrone under-21 title - a sorry return for the six figures plus he has trousered over the years.
Brennan's CV, on the other hand seems impressive (senior titles with four clubs in three counties), but doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. Three of the four clubs (Cargin, Lavey and Carrickmore) won senior titles, with basically the same squads and different managers. The one exception, Slaughtneil, he wasn't even first choice for that role , only being considered after at least one other high profile candidate was approached. I have spoken to a member of the Slaughtneil squad and he tells me that half the time he couldn't understand a word Brennan was saying and that the other half he couldn't undertsand the point he was trying to make. A Cargin boy tells me that their subs were instructed, when warming up, to run into opposing managers. Excellent tactics for any team.
Bradley would be a foolish choice, Kevin Madden was the man at Glenullin last year and with two (loose cannons of) sons on the squad, it would be impossible for Bradley, even if he were a rational man. Whichhe isn't.
Barton, like Cassidy, another man whose income appears inversely proportional to his talent and the success of his teams.
McGilligan, whilst he has proven that he will take the job for the right reasons, does not have any football managerial experience, so shouldn't be considered.
Whilst I don't rate McIver or Jody Gormley, I think either would be a much better appointment. As indeed would Madden, Martin McHugh, Sean McGoldrick, Tony Scullion, Lynchbhoy or Peter Canavan.
Mediocrity, it would appear, will reign in the Oak Leaf.
This post above rates as one of the silliest posts that I have read on this board. Totally inaccurate and peppered with a strong taste of spite...get the monkey of your back...is there any logic anywhere in it...not even worth an argumentative response
It does seem like Cassidy is the best available option.
The above post if it's true certainly cut a fast swathe through Brennans chances!
One interesting thing is that unlike almost every other mangerless county - there is no outside nominations
Does this reflect what I would think is a common (mis?)conception that managing Derry means trying to manage great talent but great ego's?
Also - I see Scullions name mentioned, as a coach he might be useful, but I've heard poor reports, (same rousing speeches, all guts, but behind it all ... little method & logic)
As for McGilligan well I'd love to see him get it and
1. See the CB try and cut corners with him
2. See some of the (supposed) ego's have a go at him along the touch line
Surprised Brolly doesn't roll in with a dream team of backroom staff and make a go of it ...
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 09, 2008, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 09, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
I am amazed at the total lack of ambition and forward thinking by the Derry county board if that is anything like a definitive short list of potential managers.
Cassite seems to be the fore-runner yet his CV appears to consist of a solitary Tyrone under-21 title - a sorry return for the six figures plus he has trousered over the years.
Brennan's CV, on the other hand seems impressive (senior titles with four clubs in three counties), but doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. Three of the four clubs (Cargin, Lavey and Carrickmore) won senior titles, with basically the same squads and different managers. The one exception, Slaughtneil, he wasn't even first choice for that role , only being considered after at least one other high profile candidate was approached. I have spoken to a member of the Slaughtneil squad and he tells me that half the time he couldn't understand a word Brennan was saying and that the other half he couldn't undertsand the point he was trying to make. A Cargin boy tells me that their subs were instructed, when warming up, to run into opposing managers. Excellent tactics for any team.
Bradley would be a foolish choice, Kevin Madden was the man at Glenullin last year and with two (loose cannons of) sons on the squad, it would be impossible for Bradley, even if he were a rational man. Whichhe isn't.
Barton, like Cassidy, another man whose income appears inversely proportional to his talent and the success of his teams.
McGilligan, whilst he has proven that he will take the job for the right reasons, does not have any football managerial experience, so shouldn't be considered.
Whilst I don't rate McIver or Jody Gormley, I think either would be a much better appointment. As indeed would Madden, Martin McHugh, Sean McGoldrick, Tony Scullion, Lynchbhoy or Peter Canavan.
Mediocrity, it would appear, will reign in the Oak Leaf.
This post above rates as one of the silliest posts that I have read on this board. Totally inaccurate and peppered with a strong taste of spite...get the monkey of your back...is there any logic anywhere in it...not even worth an argumentative response
I was only trying to help and that is the thanks you get. I am not looking for an argument, just giving my opinion on the names mentioned as possibilities for the Derry job. I am happy to stand over any of the 'inaccuracies' in my post.
But, as you say, your serious posts are done via PM.
Or alternatively, just appoint Cassidy and I'll wait ten months from now to back my argument up.
Best wishes, saffron sam2
It's
off your back by the way and 'is there any logic in it anywhere' should be followed by a question mark.
Judging by the Derry masters panel, and ther fact they're in the AI final, some of them might even tog out for the National League at least ! ;) ;)
Quote from: thebuzz on September 09, 2008, 09:56:53 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 09, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
McGilligan, whilst he has proven that he will take the job for the right reasons, does not have any football managerial experience, so shouldn't be considered.
I heard that Sean Boylan was a hurling man rather than a footballer. I don't know if this is correct but if it is he did ok as a football manager. McGilligan won an All Ireland medal for football himself and he certainly appears to have the credentials to be a good manager even if his experience of management has been in hurling.
This is correct. Seen him interviewed once coming up to one of the many All-Ireland finals Meath played in under him and the story was that All those years ago when he first took the Meath job he was just asked "would you be interested in taking the county senior team" Boylan thought they were asking him to take the Senior Hurling team and promptly replied yes, Only to find out later that he was now manager of the footballers.
Derry team management nominations
Senior Football: Liam Bradley; John Brennan; Damian Cassidy; John McCloskey; Brian McGilligan; Tony Scullion.
U21 Football: John Brennan; Niall Conway; Brian McGilligan; Tony Scullion.
Minor Football: Alfie Dallas, Martin Gallagher; Richard Ferris; Michael Hughes; Noel McFeely; Martin McWilliams; Charlie O?Kane.
Senior Hurling: Sean McCloskey; Brian McGilligan.
U21 Hurling: Sean McCloskey; Brian McGilligan.
Minor Hurling: Danny McGrellis.
Got this from BBC Sport website
Quote from: robertemmet on September 10, 2008, 04:43:40 PM
Derry team management nominations
Senior Football: Liam Bradley; John Brennan; Damian Cassidy; John McCloskey; Brian McGilligan; Tony Scullion.
U21 Football: John Brennan; Niall Conway; Brian McGilligan; Tony Scullion.
Minor Football: Alfie Dallas, Martin Gallagher; Richard Ferris; Michael Hughes; Noel McFeely; Martin McWilliams; Charlie O?Kane.
Senior Hurling: Sean McCloskey; Brian McGilligan.
U21 Hurling: Sean McCloskey; Brian McGilligan.
Minor Hurling: Danny McGrellis.
Got this from BBC Sport website
Is Brian Mc Ivor in the running for the senior job ?
Nope
Brian Mc Gilligan mustn't have much work on next year!
SS2- what about Cassidy's Championship win in 05 with Bellaghy and subsequent run to the Ulster final?
Maybe they should sack the County Board and just employ Big Brian full time to do all the jobs!
Quote from: robertemmet on September 10, 2008, 04:43:40 PM
Derry team management nominations
Senior Football: Liam Bradley; John Brennan; Damian Cassidy; John McCloskey; Brian McGilligan; Tony Scullion.
U21 Football: John Brennan; Niall Conway; Brian McGilligan; Tony Scullion.
Minor Football: Alfie Dallas, Martin Gallagher; Richard Ferris; Michael Hughes; Noel McFeely; Martin McWilliams; Charlie O?Kane.
Senior Hurling: Sean McCloskey; Brian McGilligan.
U21 Hurling: Sean McCloskey; Brian McGilligan.
Minor Hurling: Danny McGrellis.
Got this from BBC Sport website
Are nominations simply the names that clubs have nominated ..... or are they the names nominated and confirmed by the nominees?
Senior Football:
1. Damian Cassidy
2. John Brennan
3. Liam Bradley
4. John McCloskey
5. Brian McGilligan
6. Tony Scullion
Would that be a fair summary of the chances?
What are the backroom teams? Anyone know?
This would be probably
more important than the manager.
Quote from: JMohan on September 10, 2008, 06:13:14 PM
What are the backroom teams? Anyone know?
This would be probably more important than the manager.
I don't think the backroom team is
more important than the manager in Tyrone (or any other successful county for that matter).
I've heard from 2 decent sources that Tony Scullion is a very serious contender for the job. Heard nothing about a team with him. Who was his management team at Ballinascreen and Kildress (i think??)
My preference would be Cassidy and to be honest, i don't fancy any of the other names on the list!
Quote from: thebuzz on September 10, 2008, 08:21:51 PM
Quote from: JMohan on September 10, 2008, 06:13:14 PM
What are the backroom teams? Anyone know?
This would be probably more important than the manager.
I don't think the backroom team is more important than the manager in Tyrone (or any other successful county for that matter).
Correct - the backroom team is not more important than the manager ... I mean it would be more important to know each of the backroom teams before deciding on just the manager alone.
Quote from: Tim Buzaglo on September 10, 2008, 09:05:02 PM
I've heard from 2 decent sources that Tony Scullion is a very serious contender for the job. Heard nothing about a team with him. Who was his management team at Ballinascreen and Kildress (i think??)
My preference would be Cassidy and to be honest, i don't fancy any of the other names on the list!
Mickey Boyle was with him at Screen, Cathal Corry I think at Kildress and I'm not sure who was with him at Eglish.
I'd imagine big Brian and Scullion would be the cheapest options out of those 6.
Is it a surprise Barton isn't nominated considering he was touted as the DCB's early favourite for the job?
Did Mickey Boyle train the team at screen or just tell the jokes :P
Quote from: tyrone86 on September 10, 2008, 09:45:07 PM
I'd imagine big Brian and Scullion would be the cheapest options out of those 6.
Is it a surprise Barton isn't nominated considering he was touted as the DCB's early favourite for the job?
Nail on the head!
Why do you think Scullion would be cheap?
Quote from: tyrone86 on September 10, 2008, 09:45:07 PM
I'd imagine big Brian and Scullion would be the cheapest options out of those 6.
Is it a surprise Barton isn't nominated considering he was touted as the DCB's early favourite for the job?
I'd love to know what Derry people would think about money for the manager (internal or external) and if it matters?
Do you get what you pay for?
Was it the main criteria for the last appointment?
Croizer wasn't paid a penny for the job. Can't see Scullion taking money either.
Quote from: Doire abú on September 10, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
Croizer wasn't paid a penny for the job. Can't see Scullion taking money either.
serious naivety on both counts.
Quote from: Rav67 on September 10, 2008, 05:09:06 PM
SS2- what about Cassidy's Championship win in 05 with Bellaghy and subsequent run to the Ulster final?
The very least that would be expected of someone managing Bellaghy is a county title. Since winning their first title in 1956, Bellaghy have, on average, won a championship every 2.52 years. Hence if you manage Bellaghy for three years, an average manager would win one county title. When half that team have played senior championship for Derry, then you would expect better than average results. How many years has Cassidy managed Bellaghy?
So no, Cassidy's achievements with the Vintnerstown based team are not impressive. Compare them with one of his predecessors, Frank Dawson. When Dawson's Bellaghy team lost to Glenullin in the championship, he was run out of the town; when Cassidy's did the same, he is nominated as the new Derry manager.
And Max complains about my lack of logic.
SS2 the difference between the Glenullin that Dawson managed to loose to and the current Glenullin team are considerable. And the fact that you are unable to appreciate that shows a serious lack of knowledge of football. Bellaghy have been to 3 finals since 2000...all of these under cassidys management. In other years when other people managed Bellaghy they have been poor and in dawsons cae a total mess...so figure it out. Also, and in my opinion this bit is crucial...none of the players wanted him to go....and in a club where success is everything and managers get shit for not being up to stratch....that in itself says alot. I mean even the beloved paudi O'Shea got hounded out of Kerry ;)
Also reading through a few of your posts where you say to have talked to this player or that about this manager or that manager. All of the players that i have met and talked to about his ability, both with derry as coach in 2000-02 ish to bellaghy have all said he is county material.
Scullion cannot take up any post with Derry without special permisson from Ulster council which i dont think would be too forth coming, how is he going to work in the coaching set ups of tyrone and armagh whilst coaching derry. It simply isnt workable in his current position.
He has the same position as Pat O'Shea who is the current Kerry manager who also sought the same permission and was granted it.
I highly doubt that Scullion is involved in too many Senior County Setups... managers would maybe get him in an odd time for a talk or something but every county has their own coaches of a high level without relying on TOny Scullion. This would not be the issue preventing him from taking the Derry post!
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 11, 2008, 11:26:38 AM
SS2 the difference between the Glenullin that Dawson managed to loose to and the current Glenullin team are considerable. And the fact that you are unable to appreciate that shows a serious lack of knowledge of football. Bellaghy have been to 3 finals since 2000...all of these under cassidys management. In other years when other people managed Bellaghy they have been poor and in dawsons cae a total mess...so figure it out. Also, and in my opinion this bit is crucial...none of the players wanted him to go....and in a club where success is everything and managers get shit for not being up to stratch....that in itself says alot. I mean even the beloved paudi O'Shea got hounded out of Kerry ;)
Also reading through a few of your posts where you say to have talked to this player or that about this manager or that manager. All of the players that i have met and talked to about his ability, both with derry as coach in 2000-02 ish to bellaghy have all said he is county material.
You do make some valid points and I won't dispute anything you say about Frank Dawson's managerial ability. However, I will point out that Dawson's Longstone team reached the Down final last year.. so figure it out. There are also admittedly differences between the two Glenullin teams, but there are also differences in the way the Derry championship was run in the two seasons in question. In Dawson's era, it was a straight knockout and as such it is not inconceivable that on a one-off occasion, any team could beat any other team. Now, the way in which the system is structured favours stronger teams. Is it unreasonable to guess that Dawson may have hit the same heights last year as Cassidy, had he had the same championship structure in place?
You rightly state that Bellaghy have been to three finals under Cassidy, winning one. As I said before, for a man with a Bellaghy team that is only an average record, and hence based on this, he is an average club manager. Whether or not an average club manager can make the step up to senior inter-county management is the issue here. What you don't state is that two of the loses were to Slaughtneil (their first ever win) and Glenullen (their first in many years). In short he lost finals to two admittedly strong sides, but two with a limited championship tradition.
Paidi O Se was hounded out of Kerry because, by their standards, he was crap. He subsequently proved this in Clare.
I have never spoken to any player who played under Cassidy (it was Brennan I was referring to); I am basing my opinion on cold, hard statistics and the statistics, I feel, bear out my point. It may well be that the players rate Cassidy and that he is the best man for the Derry job, but I don't see it that way.
Quote from: screenexile on September 11, 2008, 12:12:16 PM
He has the same position as Pat O'Shea who is the current Kerry manager who also sought the same permission and was granted it.
I highly doubt that Scullion is involved in too many Senior County Setups... managers would maybe get him in an odd time for a talk or something but every county has their own coaches of a high level without relying on TOny Scullion. This would not be the issue preventing him from taking the Derry post!
Mickey Harte gives wee talks to a lot of clubs - he even goes to Derry clubs - he goes wherever he is asked to go and the same for Scullion.
It is more of an issue within ulster that it would be in munster with the more competitive nature of the counties up here. This is where the system falls down in that a full time emploed memeber of Ulster GAA should not be involved at this level within any one county.
Im not saying that he is involved at the top level in all counties but he is involved down through the age groups and this could lead to a conflict of interest situation (not a reflection on TC) but in a professional way this is no acceptable.
MH is not employed bu Ulster GAA he is an free lancer!
Who are these people nominated for the Derry minor job:
Alfie Dallas, Martin Gallagher; Michael Hughes; Martin McWilliams; Charlie O?Kane.
Any favourites?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 11, 2008, 12:26:06 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 11, 2008, 11:26:38 AM
SS2 the difference between the Glenullin that Dawson managed to loose to and the current Glenullin team are considerable. And the fact that you are unable to appreciate that shows a serious lack of knowledge of football. Bellaghy have been to 3 finals since 2000...all of these under cassidys management. In other years when other people managed Bellaghy they have been poor and in dawsons cae a total mess...so figure it out. Also, and in my opinion this bit is crucial...none of the players wanted him to go....and in a club where success is everything and managers get shit for not being up to stratch....that in itself says alot. I mean even the beloved paudi O'Shea got hounded out of Kerry ;)
Also reading through a few of your posts where you say to have talked to this player or that about this manager or that manager. All of the players that i have met and talked to about his ability, both with derry as coach in 2000-02 ish to bellaghy have all said he is county material.
You do make some valid points and I won't dispute anything you say about Frank Dawson's managerial ability. However, I will point out that Dawson's Longstone team reached the Down final last year.. so figure it out. There are also admittedly differences between the two Glenullin teams, but there are also differences in the way the Derry championship was run in the two seasons in question. In Dawson's era, it was a straight knockout and as such it is not inconceivable that on a one-off occasion, any team could beat any other team. Now, the way in which the system is structured favours stronger teams. Is it unreasonable to guess that Dawson may have hit the same heights last year as Cassidy, had he had the same championship structure in place?
You rightly state that Bellaghy have been to three finals under Cassidy, winning one. As I said before, for a man with a Bellaghy team that is only an average record, and hence based on this, he is an average club manager. Whether or not an average club manager can make the step up to senior inter-county management is the issue here. What you don't state is that two of the loses were to Slaughtneil (their first ever win) and Glenullen (their first in many years). In short he lost finals to two admittedly strong sides, but two with a limited championship tradition.
Paidi O Se was hounded out of Kerry because, by their standards, he was crap. He subsequently proved this in Clare.
I have never spoken to any player who played under Cassidy (it was Brennan I was referring to); I am basing my opinion on cold, hard statistics and the statistics, I feel, bear out my point. It may well be that the players rate Cassidy and that he is the best man for the Derry job, but I don't see it that way.
SS2 fair enough...and i didnt say he was the best for the job either, but i think he is the best out of that group. On your point about S'neil...i think they have massively under achieved for the players they have. I also think bellaghy have overachived with for the players they have...thankgod :)
Ryan Mellon plays for Tyrone and is a coach for the Ulster Council. well I think so anyway
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 11, 2008, 12:26:06 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 11, 2008, 11:26:38 AM
SS2 the difference between the Glenullin that Dawson managed to loose to and the current Glenullin team are considerable. And the fact that you are unable to appreciate that shows a serious lack of knowledge of football. Bellaghy have been to 3 finals since 2000...all of these under cassidys management. In other years when other people managed Bellaghy they have been poor and in dawsons cae a total mess...so figure it out. Also, and in my opinion this bit is crucial...none of the players wanted him to go....and in a club where success is everything and managers get shit for not being up to stratch....that in itself says alot. I mean even the beloved paudi O'Shea got hounded out of Kerry ;)
Also reading through a few of your posts where you say to have talked to this player or that about this manager or that manager. All of the players that i have met and talked to about his ability, both with derry as coach in 2000-02 ish to bellaghy have all said he is county material.
You do make some valid points and I won't dispute anything you say about Frank Dawson's managerial ability. However, I will point out that Dawson's Longstone team reached the Down final last year.. so figure it out. There are also admittedly differences between the two Glenullin teams, but there are also differences in the way the Derry championship was run in the two seasons in question. In Dawson's era, it was a straight knockout and as such it is not inconceivable that on a one-off occasion, any team could beat any other team. Now, the way in which the system is structured favours stronger teams. Is it unreasonable to guess that Dawson may have hit the same heights last year as Cassidy, had he had the same championship structure in place?
You rightly state that Bellaghy have been to three finals under Cassidy, winning one. As I said before, for a man with a Bellaghy team that is only an average record, and hence based on this, he is an average club manager. Whether or not an average club manager can make the step up to senior inter-county management is the issue here. What you don't state is that two of the loses were to Slaughtneil (their first ever win) and Glenullen (their first in many years). In short he lost finals to two admittedly strong sides, but two with a limited championship tradition.
Paidi O Se was hounded out of Kerry because, by their standards, he was crap. He subsequently proved this in Clare.
I have never spoken to any player who played under Cassidy (it was Brennan I was referring to); I am basing my opinion on cold, hard statistics and the statistics, I feel, bear out my point. It may well be that the players rate Cassidy and that he is the best man for the Derry job, but I don't see it that way.
Saffron Sam - you must have a serious chip on your shoulder. Obviously Cassidy has insulted you at some point in time or else didnt take a job with your club or maybe its cos he turned Antrim job down a few years ago.......
Listen to what the Derry posters say, they rate him, majority of players rate him. Not because they like him as a person, but because they rate him as a manager - tough, ruthless and knowledgeable. He has a set gameplan and his teams stick and play to it. He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry. As a coach he was involved when Derry won nationalleague in 2000 and got beat by 3 points in all Ireland semi by eventual champions Galway. As a manager he coached Loughmacrory top their only ever "A" title in Tyrone - U-21. Now if that had of been Carrickmore or Errigal, it wouldnt hold much credit, but fuckin loughmacrory. With Bellaghy he has won one league, one championship, beat in 2 finals,led the only team in to beat Cross in Cross in years, and with cuurrent club Clonoe, beat the Errigal Ciaran in c'ship.
So how the hell can you, try to discredit his creditanials.
But then again - typical begrudger
Quote from: Doire abú on September 10, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
Croizer wasn't paid a penny for the job. Can't see Scullion taking money either.
Quote from: orangeman on September 11, 2008, 12:29:20 PM
Mickey Harte gives wee talks to a lot of clubs - he even goes to Derry clubs - he goes wherever he is asked to go and the same for Scullion.
[/quote]
Bit missing from previous post.
Isn't strange the perceptions some people have of great Gaels like Crozier, Scullion and Harte, those great volunteers of the modern age. Folks are you living in the real world!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
Saffron Sam - you must have a serious chip on your shoulder. Obviously Cassidy has insulted you at some point in time or else didnt take a job with your club or maybe its cos he turned Antrim job down a few years ago.......
Listen to what the Derry posters say, they rate him, majority of players rate him. Not because they like him as a person, but because they rate him as a manager - tough, ruthless and knowledgeable. He has a set gameplan and his teams stick and play to it. He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry. As a coach he was involved when Derry won nationalleague in 2000 and got beat by 3 points in all Ireland semi by eventual champions Galway. As a manager he coached Loughmacrory top their only ever "A" title in Tyrone - U-21. Now if that had of been Carrickmore or Errigal, it wouldnt hold much credit, but fuckin loughmacrory. With Bellaghy he has won one league, one championship, beat in 2 finals,led the only team in to beat Cross in Cross in years, and with cuurrent club Clonoe, beat the Errigal Ciaran in c'ship.
So how the hell can you, try to discredit his creditanials.
But then again - typical begrudger
I can only speak on the Tyrone bits with any degree of knowledge so I'll leave the rest of it.
To be fair, the equivalent Loughmacrory side that Cassidy led (minors of 00/ u21s of 03) got to a Grade 1 Minor league final before being beat by what was a damn good Coalisland side. The bulk of them had been playing Senior Football for a couple of years previous - winning promotion from 1B in 01 and had a year in 1A in 02 before Cassidy was brought in.
As for Clonoe beating Errigal, Clonoe beat Carmen under the charge of one Beefer Morrison last year so it's not like he was taking over a dud side. And Errigal, minus the Canavan's, Eoin Gormley, Peter Loughran and a few others and with a half fit Enda McGinley aren't the power they once had been. IF, and it's a big IF, they beat Carrickmore again in the championship QF this year then he will have been decent value for the Rahilly's.
Quote from: tyrone86 on September 11, 2008, 11:41:05 PM
I can only speak on the Tyrone bits with any degree of knowledge so I'll leave the rest of it.
Tyronies usually can't wait to stick their oar in :D
You come in to work in the morning and find that someone has spent the night filling your barrel with fish for you to shoot at.
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
Saffron Sam - you must have a serious chip on your shoulder. Obviously Cassidy has insulted you at some point in time or else didnt take a job with your club or maybe its cos he turned Antrim job down a few years ago.......
Listen to what the Derry posters say, they rate him, majority of players rate him. Not because they like him as a person, but because they rate him as a manager - tough, ruthless and knowledgeable. He has a set gameplan and his teams stick and play to it. He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry. As a coach he was involved when Derry won nationalleague in 2000 and got beat by 3 points in all Ireland semi by eventual champions Galway. As a manager he coached Loughmacrory top their only ever "A" title in Tyrone - U-21. Now if that had of been Carrickmore or Errigal, it wouldnt hold much credit, but fuckin loughmacrory. With Bellaghy he has won one league, one championship, beat in 2 finals,led the only team in to beat Cross in Cross in years, and with cuurrent club Clonoe, beat the Errigal Ciaran in c'ship.
So how the hell can you, try to discredit his creditanials.
But then again - typical begrudger
If you are going to join the debate, could you at least have the manners to do so with a modicum of competence in the use of the English language. I will try to address each point I think you are trying to make in turn.
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
He has a set gameplan and his teams stick and play to it.
Fair enough, but as his record suggests it is not a particularly successful gameplan. Joe Kernan had a gameplan for Armagh that he fine-tuned during his time with Cross and backboned his team with Cross men. Mickey Harte has a gameplan that he developed through minor and under-21 teams. That is the level Derry should be aspiring to. Cassidy may well come in with a game plan, but would he have the players for that plan at his disposal within Derry or would he have to create a new game plan for those players? Still, any sort of a game plan would be an improvement on Paddy Crozier's reign.
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry.
So McRory Cup wins from almost 25 years ago are the new criteria for inter-county management. I have the programme from the 84 McRory final in my desk at work*. Of the 24 on the Maghera squad 10 were on the Derry squad in 1993. Should they all be managing Derry? One in particular, Danny Quinn has a very similar playing cv to Cassidy. Should big Dan get the Derry job?
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
As a coach he was involved when Derry won nationalleague in 2000 and got beat by 3 points in all Ireland semi by eventual champions Galway.
Mickey Moran won a National League with Derry (95) and took them to an All-Ireland semi-final (04). Should he now be re-instated?
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
As a manager he coached Loughmacrory top their only ever "A" title in Tyrone - U-21. Now if that had of been Carrickmore or Errigal, it wouldnt hold much credit, but fuckin loughmacrory.
Yes we know about the under-21 title. Now to paraphrase Art, the next time Derry play in the Tyrone under-21 championship, Cassidy is your man. Who are the Derry under-21 champions by the way? Exactly. You could also read tyrone86's more knowledgeable post.
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
With Bellaghy he has won one league, one championship, beat in 2 finals,led the only team in to beat Cross in Cross in years,
As I have already highlighted above, this is a below average return for someone who managed Bellaghy as long as Cassidy did. Can you prove otherwise?
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
and with cuurrent club Clonoe, beat the Errigal Ciaran in c'ship.
Again, tyrone86 stole my thunder, but he's right. Beefer for Derry.
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
So how the hell can you, try to discredit his creditanials.
By simply looking at his managerial record objectively. It looks like the emperor's new clothes from where I am sitting.
* I also have the 86 McRory programme in the same drawer. An altogether more satisfying day.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 08:41:35 AM
You come in to work in the morning and find that someone has spent the night filling your barrel with fish for you to shoot at.
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry.
So McRory Cup wins from almost 25 years ago are the new criteria for inter-county management. I have the programme from the 84 McRory final in my desk at work*. Of the 24 on the Maghera squad 10 were on the Derry squad in 1993. Should they all be managing Derry? One in particular, Danny Quinn has a very similar playing cv to Cassidy. Should big Dan get the Derry job?
* I also have the 86 McRory programme in the same drawer. An altogether more satisfying day.
Clearly a St Marys man then SS2. Much preferred '84 myself ;)
After tediously sifting through the eloquent arguments made on both sides of the Cassidy divide there's an obvious conclusion to make: Cassidy curted SS2's woman and she still houls a flame for him.
Quote from: ONeill on September 12, 2008, 09:06:56 AM
After tediously sifting through the eloquent arguments made on both sides of the Cassidy divide there's an obvious conclusion to make: Cassidy curted SS2's woman and she still houls a flame for him.
There has to some truth to it...the dislike he has for him is so obvious at this stage. And one who loves hinself as an expert on the Englander language toooooooooooooo!
St Marys Belfast.....a failed nursery for gaelic football :D
Quote from: wherefromreferee? on September 12, 2008, 09:05:52 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 08:41:35 AM
You come in to work in the morning and find that someone has spent the night filling your barrel with fish for you to shoot at.
Quote from: Cromagh on September 11, 2008, 02:32:40 PM
He has win at everything he has ever done - as a player with St Pats Maghera, Bellaghy and Derry.
So McRory Cup wins from almost 25 years ago are the new criteria for inter-county management. I have the programme from the 84 McRory final in my desk at work*. Of the 24 on the Maghera squad 10 were on the Derry squad in 1993. Should they all be managing Derry? One in particular, Danny Quinn has a very similar playing cv to Cassidy. Should big Dan get the Derry job?
* I also have the 86 McRory programme in the same drawer. An altogether more satisfying day.
Clearly a St Marys man then SS2. Much preferred '84 myself ;)
Which one were you then?
Teams
Maghera
McCusker, Quinn, Burke, McGrellis, C. McGurk, N. Mullan, S. Walls, D. McNicholl, Dougan, Gormley, C. McNicholl, J. McGurk, Rafferty, Cassidy, Mulholland. Subs. Kelly, Quinn, Lynn, Darragh, McKenna, Downey, Hurley, Dillon, O'Neill
St. Mary's
Ferrin, McCrudden, Crummy, C. Austin, Byrne, Hughes, Smart, McAneney, Mahon, McCrory, McKernan, O'Doherty, Heatley, T. Austin, B. Austin. Subs. Kelly, Quinn, Mark Hamill, Downey, Micko Hamill, Weir, Boyle.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 12, 2008, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: ONeill on September 12, 2008, 09:06:56 AM
After tediously sifting through the eloquent arguments made on both sides of the Cassidy divide there's an obvious conclusion to make: Cassidy curted SS2's woman and she still houls a flame for him.
There has to some truth to it...the dislike he has for him is so obvious at this stage. And one who loves hinself as an expert on the Englander language toooooooooooooo!
St Marys Belfast.....a failed nursery for gaelic football :D
I love this shite that you if you post a negative comment about someone's ability, it is because you don't like him. No-one here has disproved any of my points. So, we'll go with the personal attacks.
Nor do I consider myself an expert in the English langauage, merely competent. It's himself, by the way.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 12, 2008, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: ONeill on September 12, 2008, 09:06:56 AM
After tediously sifting through the eloquent arguments made on both sides of the Cassidy divide there's an obvious conclusion to make: Cassidy curted SS2's woman and she still houls a flame for him.
There has to some truth to it...the dislike he has for him is so obvious at this stage. And one who loves hinself as an expert on the Englander language toooooooooooooo!
St Marys Belfast.....a failed nursery for gaelic football :D
I love this shite that you if you post a negative comment about someone's ability, it is because you don't like him. No-one here has disproved any of my points. So, we'll go with the personal attacks.
Nor do I consider myself an expert in the English langauage, merely competent. It's himself, by the way.
good man SS2...and my post was not a personal attack, just an observation. Please post where I have got personal with you...other than a jibe about St Marys, which is not about you
The personal abuse started here:
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 09, 2008, 11:07:42 PM
This post above rates as one of the silliest posts that I have read on this board. Totally inaccurate and peppered with a strong taste of spite...get the monkey of your back...is there any logic anywhere in it...not even worth an argumentative response
No big deal, but my points don't stem from any dislike. I have even stopped calling him the Sarsfield's player. My points, like yours, are observations.
Tell me this, do I dislike John Brennan? Or Jody Gormley?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 11, 2008, 12:26:06 PM. What you don't state is that two of the loses were to Slaughtneil (their first ever win) and Glenullen (their first in many years).
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 08:41:35 AM
If you are going to join the debate, could you at least have the manners to do so with a modicum of competence in the use of the English language. I will try to address each point I think you are trying to make in turn.
Sam, this is the second time on this thread that you've derided someone for their use of english, it's generally accepted on discussion boards that as long as text speak is not used and the post is understandable, there is no need for posters to be grammatically perfect, so can we drop it please?
It was actually three times.
Twice with Max, once in response to abuse and once in response to him calling me an expert in the English language.
Cromagh's post was awful and lessened the impact of the points he was trying to make. Did you read it? I think he may have been drunk.
So, if it's ok with you, I'll continue to highlight, where necessary, poor use of grammar.
Your post, for example, is fine, despite the lack of full stops.
1986 teams
St. Mary's (1-8)
McCullough, McGurk, Weir, Nicholl, Keenan, Fox, Donnelly, Kelly, Devlin, Kennedy, Blaney, Parks, O'Doherty, Heatley, Connors. Subs: Matthews, Maxwell, McCorry, Grieve, Fitzpatrick, McStravick, Fitzsimmons, McNeice
Maghera (0-6)
Norton, Strathern, McCloskey, McKenna, E. Higgins, Dillon, Lynn :o, M. Cassidy, McErlean, O'Neill, Barton, D. Cassidy, McCusker, Downey, Tracy. Subs: Convery, JJ Cassidy, McGurk, D. Higgins, Duffin, Devlin, Clarke, Quinn
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 10:30:24 AM
It was actually three times.
Twice with Max, once in response to abuse and once in response to him calling me an expert in the English language.
Cromagh's post was awful and lessened the impact of the points he was trying to make. Did you read it? I think he may have been drunk.
So, if it's ok with you, I'll continue to highlight, where necessary, poor use of grammar.
Your post, for example, is fine, despite the lack of full stops.
I read cromagh's post yesterday and was able to comprehend his points quite easily, the structure, or lack of, never occured to me. Argue his points by all means, but criticising his writing style appears petty.
Fair enough, won't do it again.
Except for apostrophes.
Now, in your opinion, who is closer to the truth about Cassidy? Myself or cromagh?
Quote from: Real Talk on September 11, 2008, 08:15:35 PM
Bit missing from previous post.
Isn't strange the perceptions some people have of great Gaels like Crozier, Scullion and Harte, those great volunteers of the modern age. Folks are you living in the real world!!!!!!!!
Definitely - these men aren't obliged to go and give talks to teams - they do it because they enjoy doing it - they're true Gaels and thank God for them !!.
I can't speak for Scullion, but I know that Crozier and Harte have came and give talks, training sessions etc for free.
Quote from: Doire abú on September 12, 2008, 12:10:19 PM
I can't speak for Scullion, but I know that Crozier and Harte have came and give talks, training sessions etc for free.
These men are doing it for the love of the game and true Gaels unlike some others.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 11:13:54 AMExcept for apostrophes.
Now, in your opinion, who is closer to the truth about Cassidy? Myself or cromagh?
now, if you'd just leave the commas alone too, we'd have progress.
I rate cassidy, certainly as a step up from what we have had in terms of tactics etc. I think his record with bellaghy has been impressive, whilst you can quote averages all you want, the overall strength in depth of derry football is much higher than it was back when the tones started winning their titles. His side was unlucky not to take an ulster title (being denied by a crossbar if memory serves me correctly) against a St Galls side who I rate very highly and could have stolen derry again last year ;) The jury may still be out on his stint with Clonoe and i'd not bother mentioning the tyrone u21 title with loughmacrory.
He has shown himself to be ruthless and tactically sound, so given that the players he'd get to work with would be a step up from what he's been used to, I would be happy enough to see him get the job.
I think a lot of negativity towards cassidy is generated by a perceived mercenary streak, but tbh I don't have a problem with that, these guys are giving up a normal life and sure a few pounds worth of diesel and a reimbursement for wear and tear to the motor is the least they could expect. If he managed to bring a county title to clonoe this year would they be complaining, likewise with rafferty and slaughtneil.
SS - you obviously have a preferred candidate in mind - who would that be?
Quote from: The GAA on September 12, 2008, 12:52:53 PM
SS - you obviously have a preferred candidate in mind - who would that be?
No, I don't. I was simply highlighting the paucity of talent amongst those shortlisted. If you had read my first you should have known that.
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 12, 2008, 12:40:24 PM
I rate cassidy, certainly as a step up from what we have had in terms of tactics etc.
As I have already conceded, although that is not much of an achievement.
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 12, 2008, 12:40:24 PM
whilst you can quote averages all you want, the overall strength in depth of derry football is much higher than it was back when the tones started winning their titles.
Again, probabaly true, but for a club with Bellaghy's tradition and a senior team with seven or eight county men, I still content that his record isn't great.
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 12, 2008, 12:40:24 PM
His side was unlucky not to take an ulster title (being denied by a crossbar if memory serves me correctly) against a St Galls side who I rate very highly and could have stolen derry again last year ;)
Don't remember the crossbar, but the way I saw the game, Bellaghy were lucky to be as close as they were at the final whistle.
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 12, 2008, 12:40:24 PM
i'd not bother mentioning the tyrone u21 title with loughmacrory.
Good. Now tell the others to do the same.
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 12, 2008, 12:40:24 PM
He has shown himself to be ruthless and tactically sound, so given that the players he'd get to work with would be a step up from what he's been used to, I would be happy enough to see him get the job.
When has he shown himself to be either ruthless or tactically sound? Surely also, the players he working against would be a step up, so one would balance the other. If you happy enough, then so be it, but I wouldn't bet my house on him surpassing Crozier's record, i.e. an All-Ireland QF and a (very, very soft) NFL.
Quote from: Bogball XV on September 12, 2008, 12:40:24 PM
I think a lot of negativity towards cassidy is generated by a perceived mercenary streak, but tbh I don't have a problem with that, these guys are giving up a normal life and sure a few pounds worth of diesel and a reimbursement for wear and tear to the motor is the least they could expect. If he managed to bring a county title to clonoe this year would they be complaining, likewise with rafferty and slaughtneil.
My perceived negativity is because I don't think he is a particularly good manager and nothing I have seen in this thread has convinced me otherwise.
SS2 - I`m not a psychologist however it appears that the 17th March 1984 subsciously has had a profound effect on your life. I dont remember the detail of the game but I`ve a feeling Maghera gave St Marys a stuffing to remember and Cassidy was at the forefront of that hammering & laughing at yous as he did it.
This experience has left you with scars which you have yet to come to terms with & it could leave you a bitter & twisted man. My advice to you is to obtain a picture of Cass and when you get flashbacks to that March day in 1984 simply throw darts at his mug. This will get rid of the fustration. I know cos it works for me. I still throw darts at Toto Schillaci.
PS - Max DO NOT be winding SS2 up about the St Marys players of the 1980`s being a failed nursery of footballing talent. Think of his family - they could be the ones to suffer.
Note - SS2 any mistakes in my spelling or grammar have been intended. :)
Overall, the list of candidates is a poor one. Once again, the Derry CB have let themselves down by using an archaic system where the clubs nominate managers. Just so they can say in a couple of years after a dismal ulster semi-final exit to Down, followed by a qualifier loss to Laois, that it was the clubs who picked him. Your choice, your problem! Clubs don't have the personnel to go out and search for the top man for the Derry job, it should be up to the CB to pick a shortlist of those best equipped to do the job, and go out and find their man. If the clubs nominate candidates, then fair enough, assess these options also.
Personally, I think Cassidy is easily the best candidate in that list. We're looking for a man that can impose a gameplan, play the team to the player's strengths and snuff out the opposition. Look at the way Bellaghy played against Glenullin last year. They had a system in place to deal with the Bradleys, and Paddy B was very quiet. People say that Bellaghy had a poor team, yet they were a 40-metre kick away from winning the title. They might have won an Ulster a couple of year's previous but for a bad error that led to a St. Gall's goal (from what i remember??).
We need someone who can tactically organise our Derry squad. Most Derry posters know i'm stating the obvious here. I don't want another three years of sending a team out unprepared, hoping that we can take on a medium-rate side (never mind the top teams) and beat them 15 against 15.
How many of the candidates we have at our disposal are capable of getting it right?
Quote from: Tottypleaser on September 12, 2008, 02:01:49 PM
SS2 - I`m not a psychologist however it appears that the 17th March 1984 subsciously has had a profound effect on your life. I dont remember the detail of the game but I`ve a feeling Maghera gave St Marys a stuffing to remember and Cassidy was at the forefront of that hammering & laughing at yous as he did it.
This experience has left you with scars which you have yet to come to terms with & it could leave you a bitter & twisted man. My advice to you is to obtain a picture of Cass and when you get flashbacks to that March day in 1984 simply throw darts at his mug. This will get rid of the fustration. I know cos it works for me. I still throw darts at Toto Schillaci.
PS - Max DO NOT be winding SS2 up about the St Marys players of the 1980`s being a failed nursery of footballing talent. Think of his family - they could be the ones to suffer.
Note - SS2 any mistakes in my spelling or grammar have been intended. :)
I have no idea what happened on 17th March 1984. The McRory final was played on the 11th March that year. The final score was 1-7 to 0-4. But feel free to play the man, not the ball. The point I first tried to make when I started into this thread is the one that Will has made in this post.
Quote from: Will Hunting on September 12, 2008, 02:12:12 PM
Overall, the list of candidates is a poor one.
Nothing in your bizarre post TottyPleaser contradicts what I have been trying to say.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 03:15:12 PM
The point I first tried to make when I started into this thread is the one that Will has made in this post.
Will has said that in his opinion cassidy is easily the best option....you have just spent the last day trying to argue that he is not....you have not supported Wills position at all
However, it's looking like the Sarsfield's spitter, Fearedy Cassidy is favourite for the job. So the best Derry can hope for is a Tyrone under-21 title.
You may call me a little old fashioned if you wish SS2. But this previous quote made by you on the Crozier has Gone discussion page on August 25 2008 would appear to make you look a little prejudice against Cassidy. I dont think any of the highlighted words in your above quote would be commonly used terminology when attempting to critically analyse someone for any management role no matter what field it is in.
Also I dont think Derry seniors will be taking part in the Tyrone U-21 championship next year.
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2008, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 09:25:04 AM
I love this shite that you if you post a negative comment about someone's ability, it is because you don't like him.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 01:56:01 PM
If you had read my first you should have known that.
For feck sake, Homer, stop nodding.
DANCE PUPPETS DANCE!
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 12, 2008, 03:22:27 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 03:15:12 PM
The point I first tried to make when I started into this thread is the one that Will has made in this post.
Will has said that in his opinion cassidy is easily the best option....you have just spent the last day trying to argue that he is not....you have not supported Wills position at all
Sorry I should have said, that my point is one of the points Will has made in his post - that there is a poor list of candidates. He then states that Cassidy is the best option
in that list, not the best option available overall. He may well be the best option in that list, but in my opinion, based on Cassidy's performance as a manager to date, I do not feel he is the man to take Derry to the next level. Nothing anyone has written in this thread has convinced me otherwise.
Quote from: Tottypleaser on September 12, 2008, 04:00:59 PM
However, it's looking like the Sarsfield's stylist, Damian Cassidy is favourite for the job. So the best Derry can hope for is a Tyrone under-21 title.
You may call me a little old fashioned if you wish SS2. But this previous quote made by you on the Crozier has Gone discussion page on August 25 2008 would appear to make you look a little prejudice against Cassidy. I dont think any of the highlighted words in your above quote would be commonly used terminology when attempting to critically analyse someone for any management role no matter what field it is in.
Also I dont think Derry seniors will be taking part in the Tyrone U-21 championship next year.
The highlighted words are not an attempt at critical analysis. The first phrase is simply a statement of fact, he played for Sarfields and he would have been quite stylish. The second is more subjective, based on his reputation as a player. Since I am being serious on this thread I have stuck to his managerial history and statistical analysis for any points I am making. The under-21 point is obviosuly over your head, Bogball will explain it for you.
And as for you other two f**king upstarts, I know where you live.
So, you're having a critical analysis of Cassidy. Why not post up what you have achieved as manager etc and we can compare the two.
By the way there's no point asking me, cause have done feck all either playing or coaching.
But I am not on the short list for the Derry job, so comparison is irrelevant.
And from what I hear, you are being falsely modest.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 10:12:54 PM
But I am not on the short list for the Derry job, so comparison is irrelevant.
And from what I hear, you are being falsely modest.
Aye, well you hear wrong.
If you can get personal about Cas, why cant we about you.
Put up the stats SS2
I have never played for or managed any team.
Am I still in the running for PC's job?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 10:22:03 PM
I have never played for or managed any team.
Am I still in the running for PC's job?
Probably, Get on the phone to Owenbeg
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 10:22:03 PM
I have never played for or managed any team.
Yet still in the position to slag a man for trying to impart his knowledge of GAA unto others. Anything you post on DerryGAA has been antiDerry as far as I can recall. In this instance you say that you are having a critical analysis, I say say your having a go at us. Perhaps youd be better posting among the 'Whos gonna replace Jody thread' if there is one.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 09:57:12 PM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 12, 2008, 03:22:27 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 03:15:12 PM
The point I first tried to make when I started into this thread is the one that Will has made in this post.
Will has said that in his opinion cassidy is easily the best option....you have just spent the last day trying to argue that he is not....you have not supported Wills position at all
Sorry I should have said, that my point is one of the points Will has made in his post - that there is a poor list of candidates. He then states that Cassidy is the best option in that list, not the best option available overall. He may well be the best option in that list, but in my opinion, based on Cassidy's performance as a manager to date, I do not feel he is the man to take Derry to the next level. Nothing anyone has written in this thread has convinced me otherwise.
Quote from: Tottypleaser on September 12, 2008, 04:00:59 PM
However, it's looking like the Sarsfield's spitter, Fearedy Cassidy is favourite for the job. So the best Derry can hope for is a Tyrone under-21 title.
You may call me a little old fashioned if you wish SS2. But this previous quote made by you on the Crozier has Gone discussion page on August 25 2008 would appear to make you look a little prejudice against Cassidy. I dont think any of the highlighted words in your above quote would be commonly used terminology when attempting to critically analyse someone for any management role no matter what field it is in.
Also I dont think Derry seniors will be taking part in the Tyrone U-21 championship next year.
The highlighted words are not an attempt at critical analysis. The first phrase is simply a statement of fact, he played for Sarfields and he would have done a bit of spitting. The second is more subjective, based on his reputation as a player. Since I am being serious on this thread I have stuck to his managerial history and statistical analysis for any points I am making. The under-21 point is obviosuly over your head, Bogball will explain it for you.
And as for you other two f**king upstarts, I know where you live.
SS2 you have moved into very dangerous territory.....I have never heard of this...and I am 100% certain that you will find no one on the board to back that up...you need to withdraw that. Just read through your posts and realsed this is the 3/4th time time you have made reference to this. time to talk to the mods :P
I would not be surprised to see Cassidy get it .... and McCloskey stay on as trainer ... though according to some people McCloskey didn't do the training and they had another guy in doing the training and McCloskey was really a selector.
I would also not be surprised to see McGilligan pull out just beofre the interview.
According to the HS, Fergal P and Eugene Young are in for the interview board, wonder who else will be on it.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on September 13, 2008, 12:04:39 AM
I am 100% certain that you will find no one on the board to back that up...you need to withdraw that. Just read through your posts and realsed this is the 3/4th time time you have made reference to this. time to talk to the mods :P
hmmmmmm
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 11, 2008, 12:26:06 PM
What you don't state is that two of the loses were to Slaughtneil (their first ever win) and Glenullen (their first in many years). In short he lost finals to two admittedly strong sides, but two with a limited championship tradition.
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2008, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 09:25:04 AM
I love this shite that you if you post a negative comment about someone's ability, it is because you don't like him.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 01:56:01 PM
If you had read my first you should have known that.
For feck sake, Homer, stop nodding.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 12, 2008, 08:41:35 AM
If you are going to join the debate, could you at least have the manners to do so with a modicum of competence in the use of the English language. I will try to address each point I think you are trying to make in turn.
Despite your eloquent (some might say flowery) use of the English language, it does appear that you make the odd, little grammatical error in the heat of the discussion battle.
Happening too often now. I should put him out of his misery.
Quote from: thebuzz on September 13, 2008, 11:36:36 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 11, 2008, 12:26:06 PM
What you don't state is that two of the loses were to Slaughtneil (their first ever win) and Glenullen (their first in many years). In short he lost finals to two admittedly strong sides, but two with a limited championship tradition.
Despite your eloquent (some might say flowery) use of the English language, it does appear that you make the odd, little grammatical error in the heat of the discussion battle.
from memory sam reserves the right to spell anglicised names whichever way he pleases and I think he has at least 5 versions of Glenullin/en/on/un/an. 'Loses' was almost unforgiveable though, better than 'looses' I suppose ;D
Quote from: saffron sam2 on September 09, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
I am amazed at the total lack of ambition and forward thinking by the Derry county board if that is anything like a definitive short list of potential managers.
Cassidy seems to be the fore-runner yet his CV appears to consist of a solitary Tyrone under-21 title - a sorry return for the six figures plus he has trousered over the years.
Brennan's CV, on the other hand seems impressive (senior titles with four clubs in three counties), but doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. Three of the four clubs (Cargin, Lavey and Carrickmore) won senior titles, with basically the same squads and different managers. The one exception, Slaughtneil, he wasn't even first choice for that role , only being considered after at least one other high profile candidate was approached. I have spoken to a member of the Slaughtneil squad and he tells me that half the time he couldn't understand a word Brennan was saying and that the other half he couldn't undertsand the point he was trying to make. A Cargin boy tells me that their subs were instructed, when warming up, to run into opposing managers. Excellent tactics for any team.
Bradley would be a foolish choice, Kevin Madden was the man at Glenullin last year and with two (loose cannons of) sons on the squad, it would be impossible for Bradley, even if he were a rational man. Whichhe isn't.
Barton, like Cassidy, another man whose income appears inversely proportional to his talent and the success of his teams.
McGilligan, whilst he has proven that he will take the job for the right reasons, does not have any football managerial experience, so shouldn't be considered.
Whilst I don't rate McIver or Jody Gormley, I think either would be a much better appointment. As indeed would Madden, Martin McHugh, Sean McGoldrick, Tony Scullion, Lynchbhoy or Peter Canavan.
Mediocrity, it would appear, will reign in the Oak Leaf.
thanks SS, but its prob a couple of years too early for me to go for the job.
am delighted to hear that Cass has the passion and bite in him to 'spit' - while many wont like that kind of thing, I certainly dont chastise him for it (now at least - though he who casts the first stone and all that...).
Very amusing thread btw ! ! :D
I'd still prefer mciver or Kelly but Cass is better than what we have had and McGilligan and Brennan would be close enough to him imo
think D Cass could do a decent job. He has the talent - lets see if he gets it and if he can provide the tactical gameplan and intelligent football that Derry have been lacking.
SS2 - you are just a bitter bushmills boy and a teacher - so I feel a tad sorry for you !
:D
New Derry Senior Football Manager Announced
Coiste Contae Dhoire are pleased to announce that Damien Cassidy has been appointed as the new Derry senior football manager. Following the recommendation by the selection committee, the appointment was formally ratified at the county board meeting on Tuesday (7th October) night.
Great news. Gonna stick a few quid on Derry for 2009 all-Ireland now.
happy with that, good luck sur
Met the man once, when I got into a spot of bother outside Casement Park before the replay between Tyrone and Derry in 2003. A real gentleman and was a great help to me that day.
Good luck to Derry.
Jaysus between posting on the board, and rearing terriers you're going to have your hands full, Max ;)