I know the romantic in us would love to see the dreariest county in Ireland lift the Anglo-Celt, but one cannot help but worry about what a victory for the Erne lads says about Ulster football and perhaps the game in general. Anyone who has watched their games this year will testify to the fact that they employ rugby league tactics in its entirety - almost every player behind the ball, working it forward slowly and methodically into a scoring position.
I wouldn't be a deadly Armagh fan but I think a victory for the Orchard would be better for the sake of the game/association and for youngsters learning the game today.
O'Neill, go to bed FFS.
I hope they get bate too but just because I'd rather come up against them again in the qualifiers (if Derry win the first 2 rounds) than Armagh!
This thread still here?! ???
(http://jakking.typepad.com/daily/images/nice_big_cup_1.jpg)
fermanagh = anti football tactics!
they play more chess than they do football wif all this getn men bak! hw about they eithr play with confidence in their 6 baks and 1 midfielder to stop attacks or else clear off out of the road where evryone who has watched them outisde of fermanagh wants them to go! for the sake of football everyone should support armagh in the ulster final to get rid of the waste of space that is FERMANAGH ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
In a way I see Oneills point. 4 years ago in Euro 2004 (sorry to use a 'saccer' analogy but it works in this case), people were lording the Greeks as a breath of fresh air and good to see a new team on the block yet after they won they were lambasted as being anti football and ultra cynical. IMO they won so fair fucks to them!
Its up to other teams to get their house in order and let Fermanagh do what they do if that works for them. They aren't breaking any laws as such so its about other teams showing their quality and ability in breaking down Fermanagh.
They are an awful team to play against and their style works for them but I think they have been somewhat fortunate with how they have gotten to the final. Against Monaghan they were a somewhat unknown quantity and Monaghan had no way to deal with their system of play. Against Derry our management knew what they were going to do yet they didn't have a f**king clue how to deal with it. Against Armagh they will be up against a more shrewd management outfit and will have lost that element of surprise which is why I think they will stuggle. Good luck to them though I won't slag them for what they're doing!
Not slagging them either Screen and your point is excellently presented. The housewife in us all wants their fans to taste success.
What's the problem Ziggy? Am I not allowed to offer an opinion on Fermanagh or should I just use one-lined chat-up posts to female posters?
O'Neill point is valid. Fermanagh play siege football, a bit like Liverpool in soccer, they lay back, soak up the pressure and use their pace on the break. They have evolved the game a new way, and this is not necessarily a good thing. But they have to play to their strengths(or limitations). The thing is it seems to be a Malachy O'Rourke thing. When he managed The Loup he played the exact same way. He had about 4 players to the midfield and another back into the half back back line leaving 3 very fast skillful forwards to run around with 1 and at the most 2 breakingfrom the middle to help. They strangled space and prevented teams from playing. they did it against us in the Ulster Championship and it was the worst game to watch, very low scoring and played through frees.
The irony of a Tyrone man complaining about someone elses negative brand of football is not lost on me.
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 12:59:55 AM
I know the romantic in us would love to see the dreariest county in Ireland lift the Anglo-Celt, but one cannot help but worry about what a victory for the Erne lads says about Ulster football and perhaps the game in general. Anyone who has watched their games this year will testify to the fact that they employ rugby league tactics in its entirety - almost every player behind the ball, working it forward slowly and methodically into a scoring position.
I wouldn't be a deadly Armagh fan but I think a victory for the Orchard would be better for the sake of the game/association and for youngsters learning the game today.
Is this not the way tyrone played ;)
QuoteThe irony of a Tyrone man complaining about someone elses negative brand of football is not lost on me.
I thought I'd woken up in a parallel universe too - people hoping Armagh won, for the sake of the game. Jeebus.
Oh the irony indeed!! :D
::) ::) ::) Reeks of
http://www.sure-it.co.uk/assets/images/photos/contingency_plan.jpg
Finally someone willing to comment on the emperor's new regalia, I thought I was hearing things the other night on The Sunday Game when I heard (I think Maughan) talk about Fermanagh being a 'breath of fresh air' and playing with a 'gay abandon' (maybe it was on thon TV3 show), but anyway, as Screen said, we'll let them off this one year, but I really don't like their style at all.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 04, 2008, 09:17:56 AM
The irony of a Tyrone man complaining about someone elses negative brand of football is not lost on me.
Aww now, I seem to remember Tyrone racking up some pretty impressive scores in 03 and 05. Hardly what I would call negative.
Quote from: Tommy Tibbs on July 04, 2008, 09:31:52 AM
::) ::) ::) Reeks of
http://www.sure-it.co.uk/assets/images/photos/contingency_plan.jpg
It's more
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mmo/lowres/mmon51l.jpg)
The usual guff from some supporters of teams who once had better days as they have to witness another team make an honest go of it.
Quote from: Main Street on July 04, 2008, 10:42:35 AM
Quote from: Tommy Tibbs on July 04, 2008, 09:31:52 AM
::) ::) ::) Reeks of
http://www.sure-it.co.uk/assets/images/photos/contingency_plan.jpg
It's more
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mmo/lowres/mmon51l.jpg)
The usual guff from some supporters of teams who once had better days as they have to witness another team make an honest go of it.
Nope, tyrone played some pretty impressive football en-route to their two all irelands, 05 was the best final we've had in years, the 03 semi-final they had kerry beat after 20 mins (and I'd blame armagh for the quality of the final).
The 'swarm' tactic was never more obvious than in that All Ireland semi final against Kerry - puke football at it's best, but I was always prepared to give Tyrone credit for doing whatever it took to win.
Shame some of those Tyrone fans who were so indignant at the label that was put on them that year are do quick to decry others for trying whatever it takes to win.
Loathe as i am to offer another armagh opinion on them, i tend to agree. Over the last number of years chatting about Tyrone's numbers behind the ball, one of my mates always felt taking their style to the maximum could be effective. his plan was getting everyone chasing back behind the ball if necessary til you turn the ball over, with maybe one exception who'd set himslef up of on the forty as an outlet if its possible to get it to him. basically then you'd pack your team with athletes and run the ball the length of the field.
we always laughed it off and said it'd never work, that tyrone had brought that tactic as far as would be effective. we argued that good teams would adapt and beat the "rush defence" with moving the ball fast into target men and counteract by not following their forwards out. we've been wrong so far.
Tyrone in their pomp were "Fermanagh lite"
I can understand were your coming from Stephanite, but people seem to forget the first half in that game were we played football and played Kerry of the park. Any team that builds up a lead will try and defend it first. Or at least reign in their attack a little.
I still believe that Tyrone played some of the best attacking football in 03 and 05. Whether that was through dropping men back doesn't really annoy me. I don't think Fermanagh have the same attacking options Tyrone had, so I can't see it being as successful for them. But I don't begrudge them their tactics.
The point Screenexile makes about Greece in 2004 is a very valid one. In Malachy O'Rourke, we're talking about a manager who brought an Ulster Club Title to the Loup!! Now unless there are some heavily defensive, strangling-the-game, spoiling-tactics going on, Loup are doing well to win a Derry C'ship, let alone an Ulster ffs. So he knows how to get the best out of his teams in order to get the worst out of his opponents. And it's football that produces results. So fair play to him and Fermanagh. But i would totally agree that it is awful to watch, and in terms of high quality, entertaining football the more teams we have like Fermanagh, the worse it is for our game. No question about that. And as a Derry man, this isn't sour grapes from me. Derry knew exactly what Fermanagh would do, and the management ignored it. They thought Derry's players would go out and take care of the game, and applied no plan/tactics whatsoever to counteract Fermanagh's style. I'm bitter about that.
It's interesting actually that Fermanagh wouldn't have been classified as a defensive, stifling unit as much in 2004 as they are now. Certainly then, many commentators deemed them to be playing with "gay abandon" etc etc, and personally, I would be very surprised if Fermanagh got as far this year as they did 4 years ago (AI Semi).
In 2003, Tyrone weighed in with some tremendous attacking football.
I can remember 1-21 v Fermanagh, 0-23 v Down, 1-17 v Down, 0-17 v Derry and something similar against Antrim, all in 2003. They were 0-6 to 0-0 up against Kerry after 20 mins playing scintillating football. Then, I think Tyrone almost stood still and realised the position they were in and attempted to defend that lead. So they did, winning 13-6. The puke football is a description used by those who either haven't watched the game, then or since, or believe everything that comes out of Spillane's mouth. Anyone who feels Tyrone won the 2005 All-Ireland playing negative football may walk away from the game now.
Malachy O'Rourke knows what it takes to win, and fair play to him and his teams. It's his way.
I am not sure that to say Malachy O'Rourke relies exclusively on extreme defensive tactics in every game a team under his guidance plays is entirely correct. He strikes me as a man who plays to a theme that suits the strengths of his team and the weakness of the opposition. He may have employed similar tactics with the Loup and Fermanagh but I saw Errigal play a few times under him and they did not play exclusively defensive football. Fermanghs tactics thus far may not have been to everyones taste but have been extremely successful for them and they have put together some good passages of pacy, incisive attacking play against Fermanagh and Derry.
QuoteThey were 0-6 to 0-0 up against Kerry after 20 mins playing scintillating football. Then, I think Tyrone almost stood still and realised the position they were in and attempted to defend that lead. So they did, winning 13-6. The puke football is a description used by those who either haven't watched the game, then or since, or believe everything that comes out of Spillane's mouth.
While I agrre that Tyrone played some brilliant attacking football that semi was awful to watch. Rarely had I looked forward to a game so much, two great teams with brilliant forwards, it had the makings of a classic shootout, instead we got a dreadful dour defensive game with many Tyrone players engaging in time wasting, diving and feigning injury. However other than that game I think Tyrone generally played good football and I do hope overly defensive teams do get beaten because if they are successful we might have to change the rules to prevent every team getting more players behind the ball. I recently watched the Tg4 show on Frank McGuigan and it occured to me as I watched his scoring display against Armagh in the Ulster final that he would have got very few of them in the modern game. On more than one occasion he turned his man to kick a score, now he'd be turning into a second defender and more. Employing tactics to beat the oppostion is all good and well but scarificing the game as a spectacle is not a price worth paying.
It is true that the match was a big disappointment for the last 45 mins. There were unique incidents that led up to that. Canavan went off around 20 mins, twice, and that seemed to halt Tyrone's attacking instincts which up to that point had Kerry bewildered. Cavlan was dominating the game and the Kingdom seemed to be off the pace.
Kerry were dreadful that day - I remember seeing the stats at the time - there was a free a minute, something like 72, and most of them were committed by Kerry who were chasing shadows. Tyrone almost froze with the realisation that they were hammering Kerry and in reach of the All-Ireland final.
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 12:01:26 PM
In 2003, Tyrone weighed in with some tremendous attacking football.
I can remember 1-21 v Fermanagh, 0-23 v Down, 1-17 v Down, 0-17 v Derry and something similar against Antrim, all in 2003. They were 0-6 to 0-0 up against Kerry after 20 mins playing scintillating football. Then, I think Tyrone almost stood still and realised the position they were in and attempted to defend that lead. So they did, winning 13-6. The puke football is a description used by those who either haven't watched the game, then or since, or believe everything that comes out of Spillane's mouth. Anyone who feels Tyrone won the 2005 All-Ireland playing negative football may walk away from the game now.
Malachy O'Rourke knows what it takes to win, and fair play to him and his teams. It's his way.
Those were the days !
Was not going to bite but sure why not. I have 2 months holidays and not much else to do.
From a Fermanagh point of view i do not care if we win the game on a scoreline of 1 point to O.
For the last 25 years in fermanagh we have sat and watched other neighbouring counties being successfull while we were left on the wrong side of some
awful stuffing. I remember a game against Tyrone in the Nineties with Terry Fergusion as Manager. That was some stuffing. The Heartbrake of the athletic grounds, the day we drew against Cavan after a wonder goal from Ramie Gallagher. Cavan went onto win that the replay and then Ulster. Us Fermanagh folk remember we were a point up and Liam McBarron shot wide when Ramie Gallagher was standing about 10 yards free on his left hand side. Cavan win the kickout, get a point and the ref blows the whistle. i remember when winning an All-Ireland 'B' was some achievement. I can even remember the run in 04 and how bad things were before the Ulster championship game against Tyrone
We are a small county with a small playing population. We have to play to our strengths. And fermanagh's strength at the minute is midfield and defence, coupled with hard working forwards. Every team in the country is playing a form of blanket defence. Even Kerry had to adapt there game to modern tactics after the tyrone episode.
We are just lacking the top class forward that every other county seems to produce. For some reason we churn out great defenders. Owens, McCluskey, Goan etc.
If Monaghan had beat Fermanagh and then Derry in an Ulster semi final there would be alot of talk of Monaghan being a dark horse for the All Ireland. Yet Fermanagh will do well to beat Armagh. And even if they do, thats it. We are a bad advertisement for Ulster football yet certain Tyrone and Armagh posters fail to remember the worst advertisement ever for Ulster Football,the Tyrone v Armagh All Ireland final. 2 teams who played 13 men behind the ball trying to out bore each other
Personally i am sick of the fact that when we adopt a professional approach, with a professional management team and player attitude and play the game that suits us, people whige about it. We have taken the current trends of Gaelic football and adapted them to our game.
Maybe we ahould go back and play naive football. Let the stuffing keep coming and just lie down and watch Tyrone, Armagh, Derry etc march on
As other posters have said, its just sour grapes.
don't mind them Fermgael as you said you play to your strengths and at the end of the day all that matters is the result. All the country will be behind ye against armagh and hopefully after that game there will only be two counties in ireland without a provincial title .
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 12:59:55 AM
Anyone who has watched their games this year will testify to the fact that they employ rugby league tactics in its entirety - almost every player behind the ball, working it forward slowly and methodically into a scoring position.
See also... Tyrone and Armagh.
Puke football at its finest.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 04, 2008, 01:53:12 PM
don't mind them Fermgael as you said you play to your strengths and at the end of the day all that matters is the result. All the country will be behind ye against armagh and hopefully after that game there will only be two counties in ireland without a provincial title .
Who would they be now??? Wicklow and ???
Quote from: FermGael on July 04, 2008, 01:47:56 PM
Maybe we ahould go back and play naive football. Let the stuffing keep coming and just lie down and watch Tyrone, Armagh, Derry etc march on
As other posters have said, its just sour grapes.
No, i applaud fermanagh for their extreme approach. winning football is all that matters. however, if you play cynically and in a extremely defensive manner then you must accept the purist's criticism that goes with it, as armagh and tyrone have in the past. Fermanagh have my admiration and respect for their evolution under o'rourke but just because they are "plucky underdogs" does not entitle them to be loved unequivocally.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on July 04, 2008, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 04, 2008, 01:53:12 PM
don't mind them Fermgael as you said you play to your strengths and at the end of the day all that matters is the result. All the country will be behind ye against armagh and hopefully after that game there will only be two counties in ireland without a provincial title .
Who would they be now??? Wicklow and ???
actually i think there are only two counties without a title wicklow and fermanagh Croi
I think that was his point Deel. He was hoping you'd say Wicklow and Westmeath so that he could say 'Oho. Do you not remember 2004?' And regale you with tales of derring do and heroism from Paidi's gallant band :D
ah ye i see now Az i actually was including westmeath the 1st time but don't tell anyone ;) :D
the reason though that people thought tyrone were scum was not just he fact they were a one man team or the swarm tactics but the malevolent yet whingy nature of their game which debased the competition.
Have u no long grass to be hiding in AZ >:( ;)
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on July 04, 2008, 03:20:44 PM
Have u no long grass to be hiding in AZ >:( ;)
Long grass to be hiding in? By the sounds of it, if there's long grass involved, our lads would be sleeping in it, not hiding.
Quote from: FermGael on July 04, 2008, 01:47:56 PM
Was not going to bite but sure why not. I have 2 months holidays and not much else to do.
From a Fermanagh point of view i do not care if we win the game on a scoreline of 1 point to O.
For the last 25 years in fermanagh we have sat and watched other neighbouring counties being successfull while we were left on the wrong side of some
awful stuffing. I remember a game against Tyrone in the Nineties with Terry Fergusion as Manager. That was some stuffing. The Heartbrake of the athletic grounds, the day we drew against Cavan after a wonder goal from Ramie Gallagher. Cavan went onto win that the replay and then Ulster. Us Fermanagh folk remember we were a point up and Liam McBarron shot wide when Ramie Gallagher was standing about 10 yards free on his left hand side. Cavan win the kickout, get a point and the ref blows the whistle. i remember when winning an All-Ireland 'B' was some achievement. I can even remember the run in 04 and how bad things were before the Ulster championship game against Tyrone
We are a small county with a small playing population. We have to play to our strengths. And fermanagh's strength at the minute is midfield and defence, coupled with hard working forwards. Every team in the country is playing a form of blanket defence. Even Kerry had to adapt there game to modern tactics after the tyrone episode.
We are just lacking the top class forward that every other county seems to produce. For some reason we churn out great defenders. Owens, McCluskey, Goan etc.
If Monaghan had beat Fermanagh and then Derry in an Ulster semi final there would be alot of talk of Monaghan being a dark horse for the All Ireland. Yet Fermanagh will do well to beat Armagh. And even if they do, thats it. We are a bad advertisement for Ulster football yet certain Tyrone and Armagh posters fail to remember the worst advertisement ever for Ulster Football,the Tyrone v Armagh All Ireland final. 2 teams who played 13 men behind the ball trying to out bore each other
Personally i am sick of the fact that when we adopt a professional approach, with a professional management team and player attitude and play the game that suits us, people whige about it. We have taken the current trends of Gaelic football and adapted them to our game.
Maybe we ahould go back and play naive football. Let the stuffing keep coming and just lie down and watch Tyrone, Armagh, Derry etc march on
As other posters have said, its just sour grapes.
If I was from Fermanagh I'd say exactly the same. Sour grapes is not a factor and cannot fathom how it could possibly be given Fermanagh's record.
However, I do not think you can assess their negative gameplan effectively unless you are detached from them.
And sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The same applies with regard to Tyrone circa 2003. (I would say Tyrone were a bit easier on the eye in 2005).
QuoteHowever, I do not think you can assess their negative gameplan effectively unless you are detached from them.
Negative game plan me arse.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 04, 2008, 03:52:40 PM
And sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The same applies with regard to Tyrone circa 2003. (I would say Tyrone were a bit easier on the eye in 2005).
QuoteHowever, I do not think you can assess their negative gameplan effectively unless you are detached from them.
Those types of responses are completely redundant. Maybe Kerry circa 1943 were a similar team. But that has nothing to do with Fermanagh 2008. Responding with 'but what about...2003.... et etc' smacks of someone who hasn't actually seen Fermanagh play this year as they have put forward no evidence to suggest my thread title is incorrect.
I didn't say it was incorrect, I just pointed out the irony of someone from Tyrone taking issue with an unpopular style of play.
My sauce for the goose comment relates to your comment that Fermanagh lads somehow can't see the wood for the trees because they are not detached from Fermanagh. I'm saying the same can apply to the likes of yourself re. Tyrone.
Oh right. Good stuff.
Ulster Championship results so far (sorted by winning teams score)
Antrim 1-14 1-19 Cavan
Down 1-19 0-21 Tyrone
Cavan 0-13 0-17 Armagh
Donegal 1-12 1-14 Derry
Down 0-11 1-12 Armagh
Fermanagh 1-11 1-9 Derry
Fermanagh 2-8 0-10 Monaghan
Tyrone 2-8 2-8 Down
Fermanagh have the two lowest scores among the winning teams.
Yes, between 10 and 12 scores seems to be enough as they'll only just concede double figures.
Quote from: Uladh on July 04, 2008, 02:32:41 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 04, 2008, 01:47:56 PM
Maybe we ahould go back and play naive football. Let the stuffing keep coming and just lie down and watch Tyrone, Armagh, Derry etc march on
As other posters have said, its just sour grapes.
No, i applaud fermanagh for their extreme approach. winning football is all that matters. however, if you play cynically and in a extremely defensive manner then you must accept the purist's criticism that goes with it, as armagh and tyrone have in the past. Fermanagh have my admiration and respect for their evolution under o'rourke but just because they are "plucky underdogs" does not entitle them to be loved unequivocally.
Plucky underdogs? Its this type of condescending shite that sickens the hole of most Fermanagh fans. Yes, Fermanagh may not have won an Ulster title but what have Donegal, Monaghan, Down, Antrim, Cavan done of a note over the last 10-15 years? If we look at Fermanagh's results over this same period we may not have any titles to our name but we have a bloody good record. All ireland quarter finalists 2003 and semi finalists in 2004 including victories over Meath, Donegal, Cork, Armagh and Mayo. Outside of Tyrone and Armagh we have been the most consistent Ulster county. We don't "seek the admiration and respect" from other counties, we've earned it. And what's this "evolution" under O'Rourke? Have you only started to follow Gaelic footbal in the last 6 months? Is our recent history irrelevant in this discussion?
I read on another thread the article written by Kieran Shannon in last week's Tribune.
"Fermanagh are doing nothing different this year than they have been for nearly a decade now – beating big team after big team. The only difference is this time those scalps have been through the front door – and that's because of the confidence they gained from taking so many through the back door"People may argue that Fermanagh play a negative style of football but isn't this the style of football being adopted by every county in Ulster? If Tyrone were in the Ulster final do you think people like O'Neill would be worried about the overall style of Gaelic football being played by most counties? I think not. I didn't hear many Tyrone or Armagh criticise their style of play when they won their All Ireland titles. I know Fermanagh don't play the most attack minded football but we simply don't have the players to do this. Our best players are either in defence or midfield, therefore we play to our strengths.
If an "unpopular" style of football wins us our first ever Ulster title I couldn't care less to be honest.
Quote from: dec on July 04, 2008, 04:54:53 PM
Ulster Championship results so far (sorted by winning teams score)
Antrim 1-14 1-19 Cavan
Down 1-19 0-21 Tyrone
Cavan 0-13 0-17 Armagh
Donegal 1-12 1-14 Derry
Down 0-11 1-12 Armagh
Fermanagh 1-11 1-9 Derry
Fermanagh 2-8 0-10 Monaghan
Tyrone 2-8 2-8 Down
Fermanagh have the two lowest scores among the winning teams.
So what's your point? Fermanagh don't register impressive scorelines. They never have and never will. The results are what counts from above, not scoring averages.
There is a cliche in American sport "Offense wins games, Defense wins championships"
Quote from: FermPundit on July 04, 2008, 05:07:16 PM
Plucky underdogs? Its this type of condescending shite that sickens the hole of most Fermanagh fans. Yes, Fermanagh may not have won an Ulster title but what have Donegal, Monaghan, Down, Antrim, Cavan done of a note over the last 10-15 years? If we look at Fermanagh's results over this same period we may not have any titles to our name but we have a bloody good record. All ireland quarter finalists 2003 and semi finalists in 2004 including victories over Meath, Donegal, Cork, Armagh and Mayo. Outside of Tyrone and Armagh we have been the most consistent Ulster county. We don't "seek the admiration and respect" from other counties, we've earned it. And what's this "evolution" under O'Rourke? Have you only started to follow Gaelic footbal in the last 6 months? Is our recent history irrelevant in this discussion?
Well, how do you define consistency? I'd say Derry and Donegal have been consistently better than Fermanagh (in terms of overall AI showing) in recent years.
Again, FermPundit, that's missing the point. Of course, right now, you couldn't care less if Fermanagh won the title 1-0 as someone said and I'd be the same in your position. But there is a definite difference in the Armagh/Tyrone model and this Fermanagh style. Whereas many teams have taken the Tyrone brand and added an attacking dimension with quick ball into a usually towering FF bypassing any attempt to blanket them, Fermanagh have gone the other way and completely suffocated the opposition into submission through fitness, workrate and tactics.
Perhaps you're right and Fermanagh are unable to play any other way as they don't have a Canavan/O'Neill/Mulligan or Clarke/McDonnell/McConville. I'd just hope it doesn't send the sport spiralling that way if it's ultimately successful.
This is not a new thing, in 1982 Armagh beat Fermanagh in the Ulster final by 0-10 to 1-4, a broadly similar outcome is not unlikely this year. Recently there were low scoring Connacht finals. The point is that defensive values only bring you so far, in recent years Armagh had missed Marsden and have injury problems with McConville and Clarke and were defeated in low scoring games. We've now adopted a more forward looking approach.
Fermanagh's recent history? Catch a grip - fermanagh have no history, recent or otherwise.
People feel obliged to wish them well because they've never won a thing.
you're right about one thing, you must earn respect. but you're wrong that they have earned it already. if fermanagh don't beat armagh it will just be another year of another couple of fruitless perceived giant killings, this time playing god awful football.
Quote from: Uladh on July 04, 2008, 05:25:24 PM
Fermanagh's recent history? Catch a grip - fermanagh have no history, recent or otherwise.
People feel obliged to wish them well because they've never won a thing.
you're right about one thing, you must earn respect. but you're wrong that they have earned it already. if fermanagh don't beat armagh it will just be another year of another couple of fruitless perceived giant killings, this time playing god awful football.
So Fermanagh, with the smallest GAA playing population in Ireland by a distance, by beating League champions Derry and many (blind) peoples All-Ireland dark horses Monaghan, both comfortably, have earned no respect?
You're lucky your manager will certainly not be spouting drivel like that or I really would be confident.
O'Rourke always plays to a plan for the opposition and when Fermanagh attack at pace there are few defenders that can handle them, but we won't rack up huge scores, ever.
Eoin Brosnan spent the game behind his half-back line in the NFL final against Derry, Conleith Gilligan the exact same against us in Omagh, both to absolutely no effect. Every team in the country is pulling players back behind the ball to launch effective counter-attacks and stifle the opposition playing easy ball into their top forwards.
The football is certainly not the most expansive, or high scoring, but to say it's actually bad for the game after the way football's gone for nearly a decade now is unfair. Bad for the game? No chance.
Interest in football in the county has never been higher, the respect for the players and management is up there with what it is in any county at long last, and rightly so. Merchandise and shirt sales have soared and the county board have had to re-open a supporters store. It will be the biggest exodus from the county since All-Ireland semi in '04, probably 15,000 I would think. Marty McGrath and Barry Owens have made unbelievable recoveries from not even career threatening injuries, but life threatening. Former county boss Hugh McCabe, who is seriousy ill, could watch his son finally land a prize he gave a huge part of his life to fight for, with a number of McCabe's Glentoran teammates saying in the papers this past week that they'll be travelling from east Belfast to Clones to support him. These players will be immortalised if they could finally rid that horrible 0 tag from the county and will inspire a generation of youngsters.
Bad for the game? What is the game exactly?
UP FERMANAGH my second team for the championship this year
If ye're annoying a lot of the crowd on this forum ye must be doing something right :D :D :D
Great post EG, I think everyone outside of Armagh want to see Fermanagh win the Ulster title but there is a worrying trend developing in football that is threathening the game as a spectacle. Cork for example have picked a team for this Sundays Munster final that will ensure a crowded midfield and a packed Cork defence. We could reach a point where scores from play are in the minority in most games and big name forwards are regularily marked out of the game. As a neutral observer and lover of football I hope an attacking orientated team like Galway win the AI.
QuoteInterest in football in the county has never been higher, the respect for the players and management is up there with what it is in any county at long last, and rightly so. Merchandise and shirt sales have soared and the county board have had to re-open a supporters store. It will be the biggest exodus from the county since All-Ireland semi in '04, probably 15,000 I would think. Marty McGrath and Barry Owens have made unbelievable recoveries from not even career threatening injuries, but life threatening. Former county boss Hugh McCabe, who is seriousy ill, could watch his son finally land a prize he gave a huge part of his life to fight for, with a number of McCabe's Glentoran teammates saying in the papers this past week that they'll be travelling from east Belfast to Clones to support him. These players will be immortalised if they could finally rid that horrible 0 tag from the county and will inspire a generation of youngsters.
Bad for the game? What is the game exactly?
You see, this is the sort of shit that Fermanagh are trying to rid themselves of. No more romantic tales/tales of woe/little old us.
You've the same size of squad as every other county. Just go out and play the game.
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 04, 2008, 06:25:33 PM
Quote from: Uladh on July 04, 2008, 05:25:24 PM
Fermanagh's recent history? Catch a grip - fermanagh have no history, recent or otherwise.
People feel obliged to wish them well because they've never won a thing.
you're right about one thing, you must earn respect. but you're wrong that they have earned it already. if fermanagh don't beat armagh it will just be another year of another couple of fruitless perceived giant killings, this time playing god awful football.
So Fermanagh, with the smallest GAA playing population in Ireland by a distance, by beating League champions Derry and many (blind) peoples All-Ireland dark horses Monaghan, both comfortably, have earned no respect?
You're lucky your manager will certainly not be spouting drivel like that or I really would be confident.
O'Rourke always plays to a plan for the opposition and when Fermanagh attack at pace there are few defenders that can handle them, but we won't rack up huge scores, ever.
Eoin Brosnan spent the game behind his half-back line in the NFL final against Derry, Conleith Gilligan the exact same against us in Omagh, both to absolutely no effect. Every team in the country is pulling players back behind the ball to launch effective counter-attacks and stifle the opposition playing easy ball into their top forwards.
The football is certainly not the most expansive, or high scoring, but to say it's actually bad for the game after the way football's gone for nearly a decade now is unfair. Bad for the game? No chance.
Interest in football in the county has never been higher, the respect for the players and management is up there with what it is in any county at long last, and rightly so. Merchandise and shirt sales have soared and the county board have had to re-open a supporters store. It will be the biggest exodus from the county since All-Ireland semi in '04, probably 15,000 I would think. Marty McGrath and Barry Owens have made unbelievable recoveries from not even career threatening injuries, but life threatening. Former county boss Hugh McCabe, who is seriousy ill, could watch his son finally land a prize he gave a huge part of his life to fight for, with a number of McCabe's Glentoran teammates saying in the papers this past week that they'll be travelling from east Belfast to Clones to support him. These players will be immortalised if they could finally rid that horrible 0 tag from the county and will inspire a generation of youngsters.
Bad for the game? What is the game exactly?
Yeah, you all hate the 'plucky underdog' descriptions, yet you justify your tactics with 'smallest gaa playing population' and give us all the tear-herking stories, you can't have it both ways, either you want respect for your football or you want respect for being able to overcome adversity with whatever means you have.
You just have to accept that watching you play is not an enjoyable experience. Tyrone have been (unfairly imo) castigated for years, all beside Spillane couldn't take the mother of all beatings one day, do you think Tyronies give a f**k? Armagh have been tarred with the same brush (again they've played some great football at times too), but again, do they care? Some of you said that the rest of Ulster plays this way now, but that's nonsense too, with the exception of Armagh, I reckon most other Ulster teams have been playing reasonable football this year.
If fermanaghs tactics were to win an All Ireland, it would be bad for football, you'd have every side out trying to play the same shite - now I appreciate you have to make the most of what you have and I'd be delighted for you to win Ulster, but if you came back next year doing the same, I'd want you out at the first hurdle.
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2008, 06:50:59 PM
Great post EG, I think everyone outside of Armagh want to see Fermanagh win the Ulster title but there is a worrying trend developing in football that is threathening the game as a spectacle. Cork for example have picked a team for this Sundays Munster final that will ensure a crowded midfield and a packed Cork defence. We could reach a point where scores from play are in the minority in most games and big name forwards are regularily marked out of the game. As a neutral observer and lover of football I hope an attacking orientated team like Galway win the AI.
Yeah, as if winning Munster should be a priority for Cork. I'd love to see Wexford rewarded with a Leinster too.
QuoteYeah, as if winning Munster should be a priority for Cork.
TBH I'd say they'd be delighted to win Munster this year, I can't see them doing a whole lot more afterwards. A win for Wexford would be greatalright and if they went on and took another scalp or two the championship would be one to remember.
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2008, 07:30:17 PM
QuoteYeah, as if winning Munster should be a priority for Cork.
TBH I'd say they'd be delighted to win Munster this year, I can't see them doing a whole lot more afterwards. A win for Wexford would be greatalright and if they went on and took another scalp or two the championship would be one to remember.
Have to agree Zulu. A Munster win would go along way to rehabilitating Cork - just as long as they didn't meet Kerry later in the AI series. Getting beaten later in the championship by Kerry, yet again, would mind-wreck Cork. The back door in football has been a jinx for Cork when meeting Kerry later.
Nothing to do with little old us and plucky bullshit, we now have a really talented bunch of fully committed players who have the right manager to get the most out of their ability. Quite a number of these players have McRory Cup medals, some All-Stars, and are good enough to get on any number of county squads. Probably the best full-back and one of the top midfielders in the country when fit.
Those are reasons why it's good for GAA in the county.
We have a decent county side who seem to know how to win lately, what I'm saying is success is great for any county and brilliant for 'the game' in that county, especially with a very small GAA history.
For me and all in Fermanagh this is great for 'the game'. And probably great for all players at whatever level who seem miles away from the heavyweights of the game at certain times, as had been Tyrone's rise to the top.
We are going out to play the game you keep speaking of ON, and they're doing it to the best of their ability.
I'm just answering the title question, you ask are we bad for the game then use 'just go out and play the game' as a put down?
It sure has Frank and beating Kerry this Sunday is very important for this group of Cork players. If they lose Sunday and perform badly their season will peter out as they won't be have the stomach for the battles that lie ahead in this years qualifiers. It is a bit of a mystery to me why Cork haven't kicked on on the back of 4 or 5 good U21 teams, it could be related to the hammerings they have suffered at the hands of Kerry in Croke Park.
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 04, 2008, 07:47:03 PM
Nothing to do with little old us and plucky bullshit, we now have a really talented bunch of fully committed players who have the right manager to get the most out of their ability. Quite a number of these players have McRory Cup medals, some All-Stars, and are good enough to get on any number of county squads. Probably the best full-back and one of the top midfielders in the country when fit.
Those are reasons why it's good for GAA in the county.
We have a decent county side who seem to know how to win lately, what I'm saying is success is great for any county and brilliant for 'the game' in that county, especially with a very small GAA history.
For me and all in Fermanagh this is great for 'the game'. And probably great for all players at whatever level who seem miles away from the heavyweights of the game at certain times, as had been Tyrone's rise to the top.
We are going out to play the game you keep speaking of ON, and they're doing it to the best of their ability.
I'm just answering the title question, you ask are we bad for the game then use 'just go out and play the game' as a put down?
Fair enough EG. It will be good for the game in Fermanagh. Deep down I hope you win the provincial for the reason that I'd like many of my Fermanagh friends to experience the feeling it brings and it's long overdue. Beyond that, unless O'Rourke has a grand plan to throw off the shackles once the bucket is in Enniskillen, it'd be a great shame if the best side in Ireland plays the way you do.
Good luck anyway.
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2008, 07:49:07 PM
It sure has Frank and beating Kerry this Sunday is very important for this group of Cork players. If they lose Sunday and perform badly their season will peter out as they won't be have the stomach for the battles that lie ahead in this years qualifiers. It is a bit of a mystery to me why Cork haven't kicked on on the back of 4 or 5 good U21 teams, it could be related to the hammerings they have suffered at the hands of Kerry in Croke Park.
Its a hoodoo that'll keep them from Sam if they can't get over it.
On the more substantive issue - I don't think we can say that Fermanagh are bad for the game anymore than any other county. It mightn't be pretty but we'll see how effective come September.
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 07:55:05 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 04, 2008, 07:47:03 PM
Nothing to do with little old us and plucky bullshit, we now have a really talented bunch of fully committed players who have the right manager to get the most out of their ability. Quite a number of these players have McRory Cup medals, some All-Stars, and are good enough to get on any number of county squads. Probably the best full-back and one of the top midfielders in the country when fit.
Those are reasons why it's good for GAA in the county.
We have a decent county side who seem to know how to win lately, what I'm saying is success is great for any county and brilliant for 'the game' in that county, especially with a very small GAA history.
For me and all in Fermanagh this is great for 'the game'. And probably great for all players at whatever level who seem miles away from the heavyweights of the game at certain times, as had been Tyrone's rise to the top.
We are going out to play the game you keep speaking of ON, and they're doing it to the best of their ability.
I'm just answering the title question, you ask are we bad for the game then use 'just go out and play the game' as a put down?
it'd be a great shame if the best side in Ireland plays the way you do.
Good luck anyway.
I wouldn't disagree with that statement.
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 04, 2008, 06:25:33 PM
So Fermanagh, with the smallest GAA playing population in Ireland by a distance, by beating League champions Derry and many (blind) peoples All-Ireland dark horses Monaghan, both comfortably, have earned no respect?
You can't play the small county, small population card as part of your reasoning and then demand respect. you either earn it or you don't.
look at poor us, sure we've nothing, is part of the "god old plucky fermanagh" argument
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 04, 2008, 06:25:33 PM
Marty McGrath and Barry Owens have made unbelievable recoveries from not even career threatening injuries, but life threatening. Former county boss Hugh McCabe, who is seriousy ill, could watch his son finally land a prize he gave a huge part of his life to fight for, with a number of McCabe's Glentoran teammates saying in the papers this past week that they'll be travelling from east Belfast to Clones to support him. These players will be immortalised if they could finally rid that horrible 0 tag from the county and will inspire a generation of youngsters.
Bad for the game? What is the game exactly?
That is the most cringeworthy paragraph of prose i've ever read.
Good lad Uladh
There's some shower of begrudgers up there in Ulster . ::)
Could some of ye not be glad for Fermanagh - Armagh supporters excepted of course in the circumstances.
It's not the football teams that are puke, it's some of the supporters ::)
Pity that the good football teams of Armagh and Tyrone have some delusional fans who attempt to hide their bitterness behind a facade of shouting about what they think is the beautiful game as it is played by the great teams which incidentally just happen to be ....... Armagh and Tyrone.
The irony of arguing for the purer form of puke compared to what they regard as the pseudo puke of Fermanagh.
When all's played and spun, fresh and novel winners invigorate any sport, regardless of the method of their ways. Hence, Fermanagh are a breath to be welcomed, not a poison to suffocate, and fair dues to them.
I remember times ago, when the BBC first aired 'the championship', and Fermanagh had come out of one of their ritual summer beatings. McGinnity was in the studio and said 'the thing about Fermanagh is that one half of the county is covered in water, and the other half is protestant'
Anyway
In no way is Fermanagh bad for the game. The boost that the assocciation has got in Fermanagh, just by them getting to the final is enormous. If they happen to win it, even more so.
And IF they do win, what will that do to neighbours Cavan? They'll be thinking 'if them boys can win it, so can we'. The knock on effect could be huge and possilby make for a more competitive Ulster championship.
What, I ask, is bad about that?
Quote from: the green man on July 04, 2008, 09:39:35 PM
I remember times ago, when the BBC first aired 'the championship', and Fermanagh had come out of one of their ritual summer beatings. McGinnity was in the studio and said 'the thing about Fermanagh is that one half of the county is covered in water, and the other half is protestant'
Anyway
In no way is Fermanagh bad for the game. The boost that the assocciation has got in Fermanagh, just by them getting to the final is enormous. If they happen to win it, even more so.
And IF they do win, what will that do to neighbours Cavan? They'll be thinking 'if them boys can win it, so can we'. The knock on effect could be huge and possilby make for a more competitive Ulster championship.
What, I ask, is bad about that?
If the knock-on effect is 'so, that's how you do it' then the game is fecked up here for a while as a spectacle. Too many are short-sighted when it comes to the romance in sport.
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:42:12 PM
If the knock-on effect is 'so, that's how you do it' then the game is fecked up here for a while as a spectacle. Too many are short-sighted when it comes to the romance in sport.
I agree, that if Fermanagh win, then a whole swathe of teams will try to copy their play. Like they did with Donegal in the 90's and the short handpassing thing, like Armagh in 02 with the defencsive take on it. All succesful teams will have copycats, untill the next new idea comes along.
Surely you have to agree that an Ulster championship that is competitive from all nine angles, can only make the championship more exciting.
It always has been. This decade we've had Armagh, Cavan, Derry, Donegal, Down, Fermanagh, Monaghan and Tyrone contest (and to contest) Ulster finals. This year is no different, only it's Fermanagh's turn to take on the big guns, like Monaghan last year.
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: the green man on July 04, 2008, 09:39:35 PM
I remember times ago, when the BBC first aired 'the championship', and Fermanagh had come out of one of their ritual summer beatings. McGinnity was in the studio and said 'the thing about Fermanagh is that one half of the county is covered in water, and the other half is protestant'
Anyway
In no way is Fermanagh bad for the game. The boost that the assocciation has got in Fermanagh, just by them getting to the final is enormous. If they happen to win it, even more so.
And IF they do win, what will that do to neighbours Cavan? They'll be thinking 'if them boys can win it, so can we'. The knock on effect could be huge and possilby make for a more competitive Ulster championship.
What, I ask, is bad about that?
If the knock-on effect is 'so, that's how you do it' then the game is fecked up here for a while as a spectacle. Too many are short-sighted when it comes to the romance in sport.
I seem to remember the exact same argument in 2003, aligned with that ould (but true) cliche ' Better to win ugly than lose pretty'
Adh Mór Fermanagh!! I hope yes stuff Armagh!!
Quote from: jodyb on July 04, 2008, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: the green man on July 04, 2008, 09:39:35 PM
I remember times ago, when the BBC first aired 'the championship', and Fermanagh had come out of one of their ritual summer beatings. McGinnity was in the studio and said 'the thing about Fermanagh is that one half of the county is covered in water, and the other half is protestant'
Anyway
In no way is Fermanagh bad for the game. The boost that the assocciation has got in Fermanagh, just by them getting to the final is enormous. If they happen to win it, even more so.
And IF they do win, what will that do to neighbours Cavan? They'll be thinking 'if them boys can win it, so can we'. The knock on effect could be huge and possilby make for a more competitive Ulster championship.
What, I ask, is bad about that?
If the knock-on effect is 'so, that's how you do it' then the game is fecked up here for a while as a spectacle. Too many are short-sighted when it comes to the romance in sport.
I seem to remember the exact same argument in 2003, aligned with that ould (but true) cliche ' Better to win ugly than lose pretty'
Adh Mór Fermanagh!! I hope yes stuff Armagh!!
Nonsense - both Ulster finals that year were the highest scoring and the first was the most exciting in decades. 4-8 to 1-17 anyone?
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:56:21 PM
It always has been. This decade we've had Armagh, Cavan, Derry, Donegal, Down, Fermanagh, Monaghan and Tyrone contest (and to contest) Ulster finals. This year is no different, only it's Fermanagh's turn to take on the big guns, like Monaghan last year.
80's finals
1989 Tyrone Donegal
1988 Monaghan Tyrone
1987 Derry Armagh
1986 Tyrone Down
1985 Monaghan Derry
1984 Tyrone Armagh
1983 Donegal Cavan
1982 Armagh Fermanagh
1981 Down Armagh
1980 Armagh Tyrone
8 counties 7 different winners
00's finals (so far)
2007 Tyrone Monaghan
2006 Armagh Donegal
2005 Armagh Tyrone
2004 Armagh Donegal
2003 Tyrone Down
2002 Armagh Donegal
2001 Tyrone Cavan
2000 Armagh Derry
6 counties, two different winners
In the 80's most counties would have harboured a realistic chance of winning.
Although I cant factor in the 'Back Door' effect for the 00's
7 counties this decade (8 including Fermanagh)
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 10:15:44 PM
7 counties this decade (8 including Fermanagh)
May I draw your attention to the winners list between the two
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: jodyb on July 04, 2008, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: the green man on July 04, 2008, 09:39:35 PM
I remember times ago, when the BBC first aired 'the championship', and Fermanagh had come out of one of their ritual summer beatings. McGinnity was in the studio and said 'the thing about Fermanagh is that one half of the county is covered in water, and the other half is protestant'
Anyway
In no way is Fermanagh bad for the game. The boost that the assocciation has got in Fermanagh, just by them getting to the final is enormous. If they happen to win it, even more so.
And IF they do win, what will that do to neighbours Cavan? They'll be thinking 'if them boys can win it, so can we'. The knock on effect could be huge and possilby make for a more competitive Ulster championship.
What, I ask, is bad about that?
If the knock-on effect is 'so, that's how you do it' then the game is fecked up here for a while as a spectacle. Too many are short-sighted when it comes to the romance in sport.
I seem to remember the exact same argument in 2003, aligned with that ould (but true) cliche ' Better to win ugly than lose pretty'
Adh Mór Fermanagh!! I hope yes stuff Armagh!!
Nonsense - both Ulster finals that year were the highest scoring and the first was the most exciting in decades. 4-8 to 1-17 anyone?
Subjective in the extreme O' Neill!! Apart from Tyrone gettin caught on the hop by big Gordon on the edge of the square a cupla times, Mc Guigan bein a dishonest, divin little fcuker, PC divin in the square and Down completely bottlin it, there wasn't that much more notable about it.
Quote from: jodyb on July 04, 2008, 10:21:35 PM
Subjective in the extreme O' Neill!! Apart from Tyrone gettin caught on the hop by big Gordon on the edge of the square a cupla times, Mc Guigan bein a dishonest, divin little fcuker, PC divin in the square and Down completely bottlin it, there wasn't that much more notable about it.
Ouch! You're inflicting collateral casualties there with your indiscriminate fire! Steady, steady!
Sorry FoSB he provoked me ;D
Quote from: jodyb on July 04, 2008, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: jodyb on July 04, 2008, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: the green man on July 04, 2008, 09:39:35 PM
I remember times ago, when the BBC first aired 'the championship', and Fermanagh had come out of one of their ritual summer beatings. McGinnity was in the studio and said 'the thing about Fermanagh is that one half of the county is covered in water, and the other half is protestant'
Anyway
In no way is Fermanagh bad for the game. The boost that the assocciation has got in Fermanagh, just by them getting to the final is enormous. If they happen to win it, even more so.
And IF they do win, what will that do to neighbours Cavan? They'll be thinking 'if them boys can win it, so can we'. The knock on effect could be huge and possilby make for a more competitive Ulster championship.
What, I ask, is bad about that?
If the knock-on effect is 'so, that's how you do it' then the game is fecked up here for a while as a spectacle. Too many are short-sighted when it comes to the romance in sport.
I seem to remember the exact same argument in 2003, aligned with that ould (but true) cliche ' Better to win ugly than lose pretty'
Adh Mór Fermanagh!! I hope yes stuff Armagh!!
Nonsense - both Ulster finals that year were the highest scoring and the first was the most exciting in decades. 4-8 to 1-17 anyone?
Subjective in the extreme O' Neill!! Apart from Tyrone gettin caught on the hop by big Gordon on the edge of the square a cupla times, Mc Guigan bein a dishonest, divin little fcuker, PC divin in the square and Down completely bottlin it, there wasn't that much more notable about it.
not a bad game then ;)
Quote from: Bogball XV on July 04, 2008, 10:36:44 PM
Quote from: jodyb on July 04, 2008, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: jodyb on July 04, 2008, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: the green man on July 04, 2008, 09:39:35 PM
I remember times ago, when the BBC first aired 'the championship', and Fermanagh had come out of one of their ritual summer beatings. McGinnity was in the studio and said 'the thing about Fermanagh is that one half of the county is covered in water, and the other half is protestant'
Anyway
In no way is Fermanagh bad for the game. The boost that the assocciation has got in Fermanagh, just by them getting to the final is enormous. If they happen to win it, even more so.
And IF they do win, what will that do to neighbours Cavan? They'll be thinking 'if them boys can win it, so can we'. The knock on effect could be huge and possilby make for a more competitive Ulster championship.
What, I ask, is bad about that?
If the knock-on effect is 'so, that's how you do it' then the game is fecked up here for a while as a spectacle. Too many are short-sighted when it comes to the romance in sport.
I seem to remember the exact same argument in 2003, aligned with that ould (but true) cliche ' Better to win ugly than lose pretty'
Adh Mór Fermanagh!! I hope yes stuff Armagh!!
Nonsense - both Ulster finals that year were the highest scoring and the first was the most exciting in decades. 4-8 to 1-17 anyone?
Subjective in the extreme O' Neill!! Apart from Tyrone gettin caught on the hop by big Gordon on the edge of the square a cupla times, Mc Guigan bein a dishonest, divin little fcuker, PC divin in the square and Down completely bottlin it, there wasn't that much more notable about it.
not a bad game then ;)
Thought the 2000 Ulster final was twice as excitin' but its that long since we've been in one I cud be romanticising it :D....... It had a sh!t ending too :'(
I am delighted to see fermanagh coming strong in ulster
i wouldn't begrudge them an ulster title at armagh's expense if it came to pass
fermanagh are in the ulster final on merit
however, and this is irrelevant to players and management, their style of football is god awful to watch
please please spare us the poor mouthing. there will be enough of that in the media.
Quote from: Uladh on July 04, 2008, 10:51:55 PM
.. their style of football is god awful to watch
All in the eye of the beholder. Armagh, and Tyrone to a lesser extent, have been god awful to watch, this last few years.
Quote from: the green man on July 04, 2008, 10:58:27 PM
Quote from: Uladh on July 04, 2008, 10:51:55 PM
.. their style of football is god awful to watch
All in the eye of the beholder. Armagh, and Tyrone to a lesser extent, have been god awful to watch, this last few years.
Not denying that at all GM, but that's not the purpose of the thread
Fermanagh have taken the 'god awful' to extreme levels and there's talk of using dvds of their matches as punishment for naughty pupils from September.
Quote from: Uladh on July 04, 2008, 10:59:57 PM
Not denying that at all GM, but that's not the purpose of the thread
I would disagree. I think my point has everything to do with the purpose of this thread. Its all about opinions, which as we all know are never wrong. O'Neill has stated that Fermanagh are bad for the games. Why can I not state what I said. I'm sure a lot of Fermanagh posters would say the same as a retort
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 11:00:30 PM
Fermanagh have taken the 'god awful' to extreme levels and there's talk of using dvds of their matches as punishment for naughty pupils from September.
I sat cringin' in croker when yes 'Ole'd' them from the 40th minute ad nauseum as yes effortlessy stifled them and then scored (albeit copiously), on the break every time.
Yeah, yes broke them early on and were able to revert to tyrone's more familiar (pre 03) attackin approach. but to criticise them learning from that humiliation is a bit rich.
Just to clarify, I wasn't cringing necessarily because yes were winning, but your 'Ole' ing for about 25 minutes was cringeworthy in the extreme
Roger Relevant.
Quote from: jodyb on July 04, 2008, 11:20:13 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 11:14:09 PM
Roger Relevant.
ok ??? ::)
jodyb, Do you not understand this forum? Criticise all you like, but not Tyrone, for if you do, the whole lot will come down on you (see the Mugsy debate).
Tyrone are above all sorts of criticism. Unless you are from Tyrone, then alls fair.
I agree with O'Neill's initials and have to say, from Uladh:
Quote
I am delighted to see fermanagh coming strong in ulster
i wouldn't begrudge them an ulster title at armagh's expense if it came to pass
fermanagh are in the ulster final on merit
however, and this is irrelevant to players and management, their style of football is god awful to watch
please please spare us the poor mouthing. there will be enough of that in the media.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
Fermanagh and Armagh has no signs of being a classic, but it will be an interesting Ulster Final in that it will be a case of the big smart bully versus the wee smart bully.
All I want to say is, Fermanagh people, ignore the bs been sprouted here.
If you play the game within the rules and are winning then fair play to you. Its not meant to look pretty, its a game of football and if poor Tyrone, Derry or anyone else can't deal with it then thats their problem.
I only wish Sligo played half as good as Fermanagh this year.
I'll be shouting for ye! (from a bar in Seoul, Korea) :)
Quote from: the green man on July 04, 2008, 10:58:27 PM
Quote from: Uladh on July 04, 2008, 10:51:55 PM
.. their style of football is god awful to watch
All in the eye of the beholder. Armagh, and Tyrone to a lesser extent, have been god awful to watch, this last few years.
As a matter of interest what games did you enjoy watching the last few years?
Bad for the game? O Neill, that judge may have been right after all with his comment about Tyrone people, if you're representative. How could a team playing 'the game' be bad for 'the game'? 'The game' isnt a static entity, 'the game' is what happens every sunday, and evolves and changes over time. 'The game' being made illegal, would be bad for 'the game'. 'The game' not evolving would be bad for 'the game'. Society losing interest in 'the game' would be bad for 'the game'.
Theres no such thing as puke football, or football thats good for 'the game' or football thats bad for 'the game', it all is; 'the game'.
And as for the fermanagh folk? It seems strange to give out about being seen as plucky wee fermanagh, and then making sure to include all the reasons for said attitude, presumably to pluck at the heartstrings.
I see Brollys quote about being an awful team to watch, and awful to play against is being regurgitated. I know that this year when I've been watching fermanagh I've found the games great to watch. I couldnt care what neutrals think. I've never went to a game hoping fermanagh play well, I go hoping they'll win. And as for awful team to play against? Take Kerry, for eg. Would they be a good team to play against, or an awful team to play against? I suspect the latter. The statement sounds good, but doesnt actually mean anything. Pity so many just latch on to meaningless soundbytes.
If fermanagh had not being prominent in the championship for the last number of years, there would be no mention of anything negative about them. In 04, Fermanagh werent playing with gay abandon, they were playing quite similarly to how they are now. Because that was their first big outing, it was sacrilegous to slate them. Now its different. That this thread was started is a surer sign than any yet that perhaps Fermanagh have finally arrived.
I knew we'd beat Monaghan, I was sure of a tight game against Derry, but not the result, but I'm confident of landing the 'Celt now. I've been really impressed by Armagh, I think they have the potential to be better than any Armagh team over the last decade, but I think the occasion will drive Fermanagh on. Do or die - 'next year' for the 1982 team never came, could well be the same for this one.
Haranguerer, you've saved me ten minutes of my life writing something very similar. I second your post.
Fermanagh are only bad for the game when they knock out the supposed powers in ulster, this would be the view of the powers.
Good luck fermanagh, lots of people love to see you do well.
Quote from: stephenite on July 04, 2008, 11:00:52 AM
The 'swarm' tactic was never more obvious than in that All Ireland semi final against Kerry - puke football at it's best, but I was always prepared to give Tyrone credit for doing whatever it took to win.
Shame some of those Tyrone fans who were so indignant at the label that was put on them that year are do quick to decry others for trying whatever it takes to win.
I only read the 1st 2 pages so if I missed anything thats why but wanted to respond to the above comment.
I love the way some people in the south point back 5 years to a couple of poor games Tyrone were involved in the latter stages of their 1st All Ireland win to say they were poor to watch. They always bring up that 03 semi with Kerry but never mention the 05 final which was one of the best of modern times. Compare the 05 final to the 2 that Mayo were in and you'll see who was the team that spoiled gaelic footballs greatest day of the year. No one and I homestly believe this decade have been involved in better games this decade than Tyrone. Some that stand out include:
v Armagh 2002 1st round
v Down 2003 ulster final
v Galway 2004 x 2 in the league semi
v Mayo 2004 All Ieland quarter final
v Dublin 2005 x 2 all ireland quarter final
v Armagh 2005 semi final
v Kerry 2005 final
v Louth 2006 qualifier
v Monaghan 2007 ulster final
v Down 2008 ulster 1st round replay
Id say none of the opposition supporters would argue that these werent at least very good games. Other matches we won in 03 and 05 were spoiled because they were 2 one sided with Tyrone in numerous games putting up over 20 scores. Im sick of people being taken in by Spillanes spin.
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 11:00:30 PM
Fermanagh have taken the 'god awful' to extreme levels and there's talk of using dvds of their matches as punishment for naughty pupils from September.
God you are one wee immature gobshit e. Brave little man posting on here.
I hope that your GCSE results go well for you.
A couple of things I want to chime in about... Fermanagh of this year are a million miles away from Fermanagh of 2004. They were a group of players enjoying their football and playing a hungry off the cuff style of football. Nothing about this current Fermanagh team is 'off the cuff'. Every position, set piece, kickout, tactic is planned and rehearsed to the nth extreme so comparing it to the 2004 team is nonsene.
Second thing is this "awful to play against". SOmeone said something about 'surely Kerry are awful to play against'. Nonsense. Teams that develop a defensive syle are awful to play against. Most of the time Kerry are there to outscire you and anyone who doesn't enjoy playing that type of match needs there head seen to.
As I've said before I think the football Fermanagh play is awful. But why should that matter to them if they're winning? I wish we would play awful football and win so I don't hold it against them in the slightest.
As for them being bad for the game well this is nonsense. These things go in swings and roundabouts and there will be an attack minded team with the know how and ability to topple Fermanagh (Not Armagh another ultra defensive team) so to say they ar bad for the game is wrong. You will always get teams that play to their abilities that play a por stifling brand of football but ultimately they do come a cropper against a team of better ability and decent tactical nous to counter the way they play. This is why Fermanagh will not win an All Ireland.
As for those Tyrone eejits on here so big whoop you've been involved in a couple of decent games. Given the brand of football you've played or the last 20 years 7/8 decent games being quoted doesn't make you fecking GAA messiah's!
I was only defending Tyrone from the usual crap about their style of play. I dont believe Fermanagh are bad for football, if they were getting stuffed people would be complaining about the gulf of class between the top and bottom teams and how the games were uncompetitive. Basically gaa fans like to complain, they seem to want every match to be the perfect game or else its poor. Cant think of too many classics Derry have been involved in this past ten years so wouldnt go complaining about Tyrone.
Jays people are tarra sensitive. I only posed a premise. Mission accomplished HS?
Quote from: ONeill on July 06, 2008, 11:19:48 PM
Jays people are tarra sensitive. I only posed a premise. Mission accomplished HS?
Jees oneill you have some neck on ya starting a thread like this. But then to call the people slagging it off sensitive takes the biscuit. Just cos your thick fermanagh are still there and yer long gone. FFS let them have as many days of success as possible,they deserve to be in a ulster final and will hopefully win it. Im supporting them all the way this yr and i wish them all the luck. Only a heartless B***** would want to do something like you done, belittle and begrudge there success. What did you expect? A pat on the back.
QuoteJays people are tarra sensitive. I only posed a premise. Mission accomplished HS?
yeah, they got off lightly. You could have wished all sorts of ill-luck on them.
I suggest my western friend you get out a wee bit more. There is a whole world out there, and some have even yet to hear of gaaboard. As for your analysis of Fermanagh and their style, yes, my granny agrees with you!
There seems to be an obvious trend developing. Those who remotely support my premise put forward rational and detailed opinions. Those who are aghast at the inference simply rhyme off emotive claptrap without saying anything of substance, probably not having seen them play, or are abusive. I have no time for the coo-ing at the baby line of thought. So I say to the Erne boys, go out and win the bucket and light the bonfires. I will toast history. But if you have loftier ambitions . . .
Boys who cry Tyrone must have their amusement.
No.
Your premise that their style of football is too prosaic and utilitarian may be valid, but if this type of football offends you or fills you with dismay, have you posted about this before? Unfortunately this type of football works. Witness Kerry's all Ireland wins, Armagh's AI win and Tyrone's 2 AI wins. If Cavan could do it and win, I wouldn't enjoy the football but I wouldn't care. But they can't and when they tried it against Armagh this year, they were schooled.
Yesterday, Cork tried to do it in the first half and it didn't work. Thankfully in the second half and because they had to, they used to long quick ball and had the fullforward to use it and they triumphed. What their tactics in the next game will be may tell a tale, but re Fermanagh's Tactics, I think that boat has sailed
Have to say i find it quite ironic that a Tyrone man is making fun of Fermanaghs 'negative' football.
Tyrone and Armagh have both had plenty of success in recent years by using negative tactics like the swarm defence, pulling half forwards back behind mid-field and even behind the half back line, playing a sweeper, using a 2 man full forward line and packing mid-field to name but a few. Both teams also perfected the multi player tackle where they all surround the man on the ball with outstretched arms implying " Im not touching him ref" until the opponent falls to the ground where he is kept from rising slyly using their knees until the player is blown for over carrying when he should be given a free for a 2 or even 3 player tackle. These tactics made for many a terrible looking game but they worked and Tyrone won 2 All irelands and Armagh won 1 so the End justifies the means in my book.
It doesnt matter how you win all that matters is that you win!
Fermanagh have adopted some of these tactics directly and others they have expanded or altered to suit their capabilities and I think they should be congratulated for it. It may not be pretty but who says it has to be. Tyrones All Ireland Semi with Kerry in 2003 was a terrible game to watch and was very negative but do you think the Tyronies left Croker that day complaining about how negative their team was?
Armagh won their only All Ireland choking the life out of teams with better individuals and higher skill levels but do you think they complained about that on the road back to the Orchards?
As a Derry supporter its great to be able to say "Our boys always go out to play good football" and usually its true, Derry do usually try to win games by playing good football and when it works its great to see (Kerry In National league final, The qualifiers last year, Donegal in champuionship this year) but when teams that you are better than on paper set out to frustrate you and be negative like Monaghan last year, Fermanagh this year its time to realise you cant play nice football all the time and that these teams deserve your respect and although its not pretty it is effective. It should also be noted that in recent times, Derrys most significant Championship victory by a mile was in 2006 when they beat Tyrone the Reigning champions by playing a very negative brand of football and i definately didnt mind that when the game was over.
I hope Fermanagh win the Ulster Final as it would be good for football to have a first time winner as champions.
Ps. It should be noted that Tyrones performance in the All Ireland final in 2005 was one of the most impressive attacting performances in modern times and as a Derry man it almost killed me to say that.
That could be construed as attempted poaching TYP. I am not for sale.
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 01:07:40 PM
It is true that the match was a big disappointment for the last 45 mins. There were unique incidents that led up to that. Canavan went off around 20 mins, twice, and that seemed to halt Tyrone's attacking instincts which up to that point had Kerry bewildered. Cavlan was dominating the game and the Kingdom seemed to be off the pace.
Kerry were dreadful that day - I remember seeing the stats at the time - there was a free a minute, something like 72, and most of them were committed by Kerry who were chasing shadows. Tyrone almost froze with the realisation that they were hammering Kerry and in reach of the All-Ireland final.
42 of the fouls were committed by Tyrone, yet not one of the fourteen outfield players who committed fouls, accumulated enough cards to allow leading referee Gerry Kinneavy to issue a second yellow to any of them.
Part of a misty-eyed attempt by the GAA hierarchy at the time to ensure that Peter the Great didn't retire without a Celtic cross in his back pocket.
Anything Fermanagh win this year will be solely on merit and won't have the smell of skullduggery a la 2003.
I'd say he only said it to annoy Mike Sheehy.
http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/07/07/GAA-Cooney-on-Ulster/ (http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/07/07/GAA-Cooney-on-Ulster/)
That is only phase one TYP. Also the diff between Ron and I is that I have done it on the big occasion.
Quote from: billy the kid on July 07, 2008, 05:25:45 PM
Have to say i find it quite ironic that a Tyrone man is making fun of Fermanaghs 'negative' football.
Tyrone and Armagh have both had plenty of success in recent years by using negative tactics like the swarm defence, pulling half forwards back behind mid-field and even behind the half back line, playing a sweeper, using a 2 man full forward line and packing mid-field to name but a few. Both teams also perfected the multi player tackle where they all surround the man on the ball with outstretched arms implying " Im not touching him ref" until the opponent falls to the ground where he is kept from rising slyly using their knees until the player is blown for over carrying when he should be given a free for a 2 or even 3 player tackle. These tactics made for many a terrible looking game but they worked and Tyrone won 2 All irelands and Armagh won 1 so the End justifies the means in my book.
It doesnt matter how you win all that matters is that you win!
Fermanagh have adopted some of these tactics directly and others they have expanded or altered to suit their capabilities and I think they should be congratulated for it. It may not be pretty but who says it has to be. Tyrones All Ireland Semi with Kerry in 2003 was a terrible game to watch and was very negative but do you think the Tyronies left Croker that day complaining about how negative their team was?
Armagh won their only All Ireland choking the life out of teams with better individuals and higher skill levels but do you think they complained about that on the road back to the Orchards?
As a Derry supporter its great to be able to say "Our boys always go out to play good football" and usually its true, Derry do usually try to win games by playing good football and when it works its great to see (Kerry In National league final, The qualifiers last year, Donegal in champuionship this year) but when teams that you are better than on paper set out to frustrate you and be negative like Monaghan last year, Fermanagh this year its time to realise you cant play nice football all the time and that these teams deserve your respect and although its not pretty it is effective. It should also be noted that in recent times, Derrys most significant Championship victory by a mile was in 2006 when they beat Tyrone the Reigning champions by playing a very negative brand of football and i definately didnt mind that when the game was over.
I hope Fermanagh win the Ulster Final as it would be good for football to have a first time winner as champions.
Ps. It should be noted that Tyrones performance in the All Ireland final in 2005 was one of the most impressive attacting performances in modern times and as a Derry man it almost killed me to say that.
Can you tell what rule you would give the free under?
As in rule from the rule-book, not rule from some old duffer shouting '3rd man tackle ref!'
The rules favour the ball carrier so much that if he lets himself get surrounded and doesn't have the skill or vision to get rid of the ball then the free should go against him.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 08, 2008, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2008, 06:02:14 PM
I am not for sale.
Really, I heard that's what Ronaldo said to the President of Real Madrid when he complimented him on his amazing skills and expertise.
BTW a brilliant piece of posting to keep them going for 8 pages, some people are very sensitive. We are now getting the the old Tyrone conspiracy stories trotted out with the Armagh negativity. Looks like Armagh v The Universe supporting Fermanagh on 20th July thanks to you!
I'll be supporting the Orangies on the third Sunday. It's hard to beat a bit of tradition. Whilst Fermanagh are indeed there on merit, it does demean the proud histry of the Anglo-Celt Cup and can be taken as a reflection of how established, traditional powers (outwith Armagh) treat the Ulster championship.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on July 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 08, 2008, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2008, 06:02:14 PM
I am not for sale.
Really, I heard that's what Ronaldo said to the President of Real Madrid when he complimented him on his amazing skills and expertise.
BTW a brilliant piece of posting to keep them going for 8 pages, some people are very sensitive. We are now getting the the old Tyrone conspiracy stories trotted out with the Armagh negativity. Looks like Armagh v The Universe supporting Fermanagh on 20th July thanks to you!
I'll be supporting the Orangies on the third Sunday. It's hard to beat a bit of tradition. Whilst Fermanagh are indeed there on merit, it does demean the proud histry of the Anglo-Celt Cup and can be taken as a reflection of how established, traditional powers (outwith Armagh) treat the Ulster championship.
I wasn't going to bite, but here goes
That could possibly be the most idiotic quote on 8 pages of idiotic posts. Fermanagh are there on merit, but by the way only because no one else was taking it serious. Which is it???? Merit or not?
How many years do you want to go back til classify traditional powers?? 100? Bring Cavan into the question, or back 15 so that we can guarantee your silly argument.
ONLY Tyrone and Armagh have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series in the past 5 years. We have beat Down, Monaghan and Derry this year so far (only cause they weren't trying) and we have done it by running the ball up to the goal line and diving over like rugby palyers or by basketball passing up to 2 yrds and fisting it over the bar >:( What a load of shite
We are terrible for GAA altogether. Local lads putting 100% into every game and playing with a passion that in my opinion only playing for your birthplace can bring. Now I think we can win it, but am by no means definite. But why after years of living off scraps of respect we are being made out to be something that 'is punishment for school children' :-\ puzzles me.
What do we do so different than Armagh and Tyrone? If anything when the oppurtunity arises we move the ball quicker than both, but somehow hoofing the ball at the FF is poetry in motion is it?
What exactly is the classification of good football at the minute (cue some smart arse saying 'not Fermanagh'). Giving the ball back to the opposition every 30 seconds? Cause if it is, get the Fermanagh 90-00 DVD cause it'll blow your mind!
It seems a bit rich that all the Tyrone and Armagh people who were besides themselves when anyone dared call their football unattractive are slating Fermanagh.
On a closing point. I have a lot of respect for Armagh as a team, because they generally play hard but to win. I have no problem with playing hard but fair lads. However a few of the posters getting excuses in about referees and handy frees seems a bit pessimistic considering Armagh are as good as in the 1/4's ;D
QuoteI'd say he only said it to annoy Mike Sheehy.
http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/07/07/GAA-Cooney-on-Ulster/
If I can find an email address for him and I will set him straight ! We cant have the new president sucking up to Ulster
Ahh Wanderer. Lose that inferiority complex. Look where we are. In an Ulster Final. Look where most of those who are posting are, and try and feel some pity. It takes a long time to get momentum in the Qualifiers.
I'm honestly not bothered by what we haven't won in the past. This is the year that matters, not next, not last. The past is only a comfort when you're doing shit in the present. Same goes for the future.
The only time it has ever had a direct impact on me was when I was in a pub in Clones looking over at a crowd of Monaghan ones chanting 'If you've won an Ulster title clap your hands.' I felt embarrassed for them, for they were making a holy show of themselves.
This year, discounting Armagh for a minute, we would beat any other team in Ulster. And they know it. Thats why they are on here giving out. Because we shouldn't be beating every other team in Ulster. The order is changing, even if only for a little while, and I can smell the fear.
As for Armagh. I think they'll win Sam again in the next 2/3 years. I really rate them. McDonnells a shrewd boy. But we can beat them. And its not the way we could beat teams in the past - that is if we played out of our skins and they didnt turn up. If we perform reasonably well against them we'll win.
I dont give a f**k if theres 30 other counties cheering for us or not. I hope there are - its brilliant to be popular (I hear), but I'd much rather be a winner, and not so that '0' is wiped from the record, its so I can adopt the patronising arrogant attitude that I have learnt from other teams fans over the years.
As you can see, I've been practising. Reckon I'm getting pretty good too :P
Cos thats what its all about.
I wish posters from Fermanagh would stop posting on this thread. It is heartbreaking reading their cute mindsets. Ach I hope they win it, God bless them.
I`m not from Fermanagh, but ONeill you are a tosser of the highest degree. To think..on the weekend of the Ulster Final...Tyrone are playing Louth.
haha oneill ure some craic and as for saffron sam..support away at armagh..ya know why? cos i cudnt care less wot ya do! ill b standin in clones as a proud fermanagh man and goin and drinkin the head of myself after it..you can come bak on here and post ure wee winding up comments and be all pleased with urself..everyones happy!
Quote from: haranguerer on July 09, 2008, 10:43:48 PM
Ahh Wanderer. Lose that inferiority complex. Look where we are. In an Ulster Final. Look where most of those who are posting are, and try and feel some pity. It takes a long time to get momentum in the Qualifiers.
I'm honestly not bothered by what we haven't won in the past. This is the year that matters, not next, not last. The past is only a comfort when you're doing shit in the present. Same goes for the future.
The only time it has ever had a direct impact on me was when I was in a pub in Clones looking over at a crowd of Monaghan ones chanting 'If you've won an Ulster title clap your hands.' I felt embarrassed for them, for they were making a holy show of themselves.
This year, discounting Armagh for a minute, we would beat any other team in Ulster. And they know it. Thats why they are on here giving out. Because we shouldn't be beating every other team in Ulster. The order is changing, even if only for a little while, and I can smell the fear.
As for Armagh. I think they'll win Sam again in the next 2/3 years. I really rate them. McDonnells a shrewd boy. But we can beat them. And its not the way we could beat teams in the past - that is if we played out of our skins and they didnt turn up. If we perform reasonably well against them we'll win.
I dont give a f**k if theres 30 other counties cheering for us or not. I hope there are - its brilliant to be popular (I hear), but I'd much rather be a winner, and not so that '0' is wiped from the record, its so I can adopt the patronising arrogant attitude that I have learnt from other teams fans over the years.
As you can see, I've been practising. Reckon I'm getting pretty good too :P
Cos thats what its all about.
Haranguerer, couldn't agree with the bulk of your message more. I far from have an inferiority complex, I would just like people to be a bit consistent with there arguments as to why we are suddenly bad for the GAA. Thay make a stupid statement, get called up for it and there next defence is something like
'I wish posters from Fermanagh would stop posting on this thread. Its heartbreaking reading their cute mindsets. Ach I hope they win it, God bless them'
A load of crap that covers them both ways so if Armagh win they can say how they knew all along as defence, and if Fermanagh win they wanted them to :-\
As for the rest of your post you are spot on. I fully rate Armagh as well, but I don't think we need them to have an off day for the win. I am confident of the result, and as you say history and support counts for nothing once the game starts. So i'll go away and lay down again and let them get on with it
Great song. FANTASTIC FERMANAGH. We are a talented bunch.
we might be bad for the game but Q 101.2 is going to love us
Quote from: tram on July 10, 2008, 11:03:01 AM
the Armagh team of the previous year had a very similar style if not quite as intense where by usually three or four of their defenders would quickly surround the opponent in possession to block them from going forward and shutting down the space to release the ball
This is incorrect. armagh have obviously adapted since, as most teams have, but that 2002 defence were man for man great one on one tacklers partly because of their huge upper body strength. their wing forwards of McConville and McKeever certainly worked hard around the middle when they hadn't the ball but rarely dropped into defence like dooher, McGinley or Martin o'rourke would do. Armagh of that vintage were difficult to penetrate but because of their tackling ability, not because of any blanket defence.
Quote from: wanderer on July 09, 2008, 09:14:23 PM
ONLY Tyrone and Armagh have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series in the past 5 years. We have beat Down, Monaghan and Derry this year so far (only cause they weren't trying) and we have done it by running the ball up to the goal line and diving over like rugby palyers or by basketball passing up to 2 yrds and fisting it over the bar >:( What a load of shite
I assume you are talking about Ulster only counties here? I took issue with a similar comment already on this thread, and I would argue that both Donegal and Derry have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series over the last 5 years.
Na tram, armagh's defenders staying in their own defence right enough but the blanket requires half forwards and midfielders dropping into their own defence. by all accounts, armagh did little other than one on one tackling in training.
Quote from: Will Hunting on July 10, 2008, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: wanderer on July 09, 2008, 09:14:23 PM
ONLY Tyrone and Armagh have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series in the past 5 years. We have beat Down, Monaghan and Derry this year so far (only cause they weren't trying) and we have done it by running the ball up to the goal line and diving over like rugby palyers or by basketball passing up to 2 yrds and fisting it over the bar >:( What a load of shite
I assume you are talking about Ulster only counties here? I took issue with a similar comment already on this thread, and I would argue that both Donegal and Derry have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series over the last 5 years.
Yeah within the Ulster Counties. You can argue, but its not something I have pulled out of the air. While Derry & Donegal would generally gotten further in Ulster, they would then drop into the qualifiers and usually get beat while Fermanagh sneaked into last 12 or better.
Do you know where can you get the history of results, we could try to find out and find it beyond doubt?
Quote from: tram on July 10, 2008, 11:03:01 AM
One point about the criticism of Tyrone's style of defending in the 2003 All-Ireland Semi-Final is that the style behind it wasn't completely new - the Armagh team of the previous year had a very similar style if not quite as intense where by usually three or four of their defenders would quickly surround the opponent in possession to block them from going forward and shutting down the space to release the ball - if the opponent did get the ball away it was almost always to the nearest player whom didn't get too long themselves before they were closed down too. You would have thought that after being defeated in the 2002 All-Ireland football final O'Se would have learned from this but obviously he didn't. Paddy Tally took the Tyrone defence and got them to tackle the opponent in possession in a pack style as close to perfect within the rules as possible - there is no such rule preventing defenders surrounding the player in possession. Tyrone did nothing wrong that day except for Peter Canavan's antics into running into a Kerry defender's elbow for which there was no call for.
Which brings it on to the current Fermanagh system. Tyrone learned a while back that nice teams will only go so far. All teams that win All-Irelands have a streak in them to bend and occasionally break the rules, along with breaking the style of opponents play in which to get rewards from. The 1996 All-Ireland semi final against Meath to me is the turning point in the style of play that Tyrone teams in general have adopted and that simply going out to outscore teams wasn't good enough to land big prizes. Previous Fermanagh teams have had good skilful players and a nice style about them but had no killer instinct to break the spirit and game play of the teams they were facing. O'Rourke has come in, got the players into a system that plays to their strengths and does their homework on restricting their opponents chances. This is good planning, coaching and tactics. Their game against Derry in Omagh saw good fielding and score taking against a highly talked up Derry team that was rudderless and believed their own hype. The question will be wherever this formula will be enough against an Armagh side that is unlikely to be as complacent as Derry were or as much as a one-season blow off as Monaghan appear to be?
Is it pretty to watch? Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder and anyone is right to question wherever the style of play adopted by a winning team gives scope for the future of the game as a spectacle at the highest level. I'm pretty sure that those associated with Fermanagh will not care one bit and nor should they. The only problem I have with the current game in general is players getting frees too easily and fooling referees into giving it to them. For the Erne men, the tactics that they employ are good enough for them if they are good enough for everyone else - and that doesn't just mean Tyrone and Armagh as others employ as the likes of Kerry, Dublin, Galway etc. are only too happy to play in a similar fashion, bend the rules, get players behind the ball etc. with whatever it takes to get the win. The only thing is that it is curious to see some posters here who often complain about the standard of analysis and "experts" of the Sunday Game regurgitate some of the shíte they come out with.
I think to call it 'defending' doesn't really properly describe the pressure game which is really taking place in mid-field, or if you look at the most famous passage from the 2003 AI semi in the opponent's half. That came from a short Kerry kick-out to a corner back that was kicked on up the wing giving the Tyrone players a chance to crowd the area. Kerry might have been avoiding a normal kick-out as prior to that G Calvin had been cleaning up in mid-field. Keeper's kicking was very bad that day.
I think its clear that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, it seems a lot of people dont realise this, and think there is 'good' football and 'bad' football. In my eyes, the only distinction is when there are a lot of mistakes, or none.
I'm not a Tyrone fan, but that passage of play, against Kerry, is probably my favourite ever clip from any game. The intensity and will to win is wonderful to behold. For me its much better than Mulligans goal for eg.
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2008, 12:59:55 AM
I know the romantic in us would love to see the dreariest county in Ireland lift the Anglo-Celt, but one cannot help but worry about what a victory for the Erne lads says about Ulster football and perhaps the game in general. Anyone who has watched their games this year will testify to the fact that they employ rugby league tactics in its entirety - almost every player behind the ball, working it forward slowly and methodically into a scoring position.
I wouldn't be a deadly Armagh fan but I think a victory for the Orchard would be better for the sake of the game/association and for youngsters learning the game today.
You may have a point - but not when you are a Tyrone Fan. Isn't that how you won 2 all irelands.
Quote from: wanderer on July 10, 2008, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: Will Hunting on July 10, 2008, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: wanderer on July 09, 2008, 09:14:23 PM
ONLY Tyrone and Armagh have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series in the past 5 years. We have beat Down, Monaghan and Derry this year so far (only cause they weren't trying) and we have done it by running the ball up to the goal line and diving over like rugby palyers or by basketball passing up to 2 yrds and fisting it over the bar >:( What a load of shite
I assume you are talking about Ulster only counties here? I took issue with a similar comment already on this thread, and I would argue that both Donegal and Derry have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series over the last 5 years.
Yeah within the Ulster Counties. You can argue, but its not something I have pulled out of the air. While Derry & Donegal would generally gotten further in Ulster, they would then drop into the qualifiers and usually get beat while Fermanagh sneaked into last 12 or better.
Do you know where can you get the history of results, we could try to find out and find it beyond doubt?
Here's the breakdown since 2003:
Fermanagh:AIQF - AISemi - Rd1 - Rd4 - Rd2
Donegal:AISemi - Rd4 - Rd2 - AIQF - Rd3
DerryRd3 - AISemi - Rd4 - Rd3 - AIQF
So, there you have it. Not a lot in it, but you certainly couldn't say Fermanagh have out-performed Donegal and Derry in the AI series.
Derry are by far the most successful qualifier team, they've won something like 18/19 games - I know that Tyrone and Galway have taken All Ireland's, but in terms of games played and matches won derry take it.
Defending and working hard are hugely important parts of the game and if people don't enjoy them maybe they should just watch 7 a sides. This thread is a bit of a joke.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on July 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 08, 2008, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2008, 06:02:14 PM
I am not for sale.
Really, I heard that's what Ronaldo said to the President of Real Madrid when he complimented him on his amazing skills and expertise.
BTW a brilliant piece of posting to keep them going for 8 pages, some people are very sensitive. We are now getting the the old Tyrone conspiracy stories trotted out with the Armagh negativity. Looks like Armagh v The Universe supporting Fermanagh on 20th July thanks to you!
I'll be supporting the Orangies on the third Sunday. It's hard to beat a bit of tradition. Whilst Fermanagh are indeed there on merit, it does demean the proud histry of the Anglo-Celt Cup and can be taken as a reflection of how established, traditional powers (outwith Armagh) treat the Ulster championship.
You cant help but laugh at this Armagh bandwagoner type of post. How many times are we going to have to tell yous.....THE HISTORY OF THE GAA DIDNT BEGIN IN 2002 There were well over a hundred years of games before this!!
The funny thing is that it now appears the history of the GAA also ended in 2002 :D
Quote from: billy the kid on July 11, 2008, 01:54:13 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on July 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 08, 2008, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2008, 06:02:14 PM
I am not for sale.
Really, I heard that's what Ronaldo said to the President of Real Madrid when he complimented him on his amazing skills and expertise.
BTW a brilliant piece of posting to keep them going for 8 pages, some people are very sensitive. We are now getting the the old Tyrone conspiracy stories trotted out with the Armagh negativity. Looks like Armagh v The Universe supporting Fermanagh on 20th July thanks to you!
I'll be supporting the Orangies on the third Sunday. It's hard to beat a bit of tradition. Whilst Fermanagh are indeed there on merit, it does demean the proud histry of the Anglo-Celt Cup and can be taken as a reflection of how established, traditional powers (outwith Armagh) treat the Ulster championship.
You cant help but laugh at this Armagh bandwagoner type of post. How many times are we going to have to tell yous.....THE HISTORY OF THE GAA DIDNT BEGIN IN 2002 There were well over a hundred years of games before this!!
WTF??? From reading TYP's posts I think the last thing he is is a bandwagoner jumper as he has followed Armagh, like a lot of us, through thick and thin. Also if Armagh win on Sunday week then they will become joint 2nd in the Ulster title roll of honour, having won 7 out of the last ten titles, so I don't
know about you that is a fairly impressive record. An awful lot of your posts are anti-Armagh, do you have a major issue here or what??
Quote from: Will Hunting on July 11, 2008, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: wanderer on July 10, 2008, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: Will Hunting on July 10, 2008, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: wanderer on July 09, 2008, 09:14:23 PM
ONLY Tyrone and Armagh have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series in the past 5 years. We have beat Down, Monaghan and Derry this year so far (only cause they weren't trying) and we have done it by running the ball up to the goal line and diving over like rugby palyers or by basketball passing up to 2 yrds and fisting it over the bar >:( What a load of shite
I assume you are talking about Ulster only counties here? I took issue with a similar comment already on this thread, and I would argue that both Donegal and Derry have consistently got further than Fermanagh in the AI series over the last 5 years.
Yeah within the Ulster Counties. You can argue, but its not something I have pulled out of the air. While Derry & Donegal would generally gotten further in Ulster, they would then drop into the qualifiers and usually get beat while Fermanagh sneaked into last 12 or better.
Do you know where can you get the history of results, we could try to find out and find it beyond doubt?
Here's the breakdown since 2003:
Fermanagh:
AIQF - AISemi - Rd1 - Rd4 - Rd2
Donegal:
AISemi - Rd4 - Rd2 - AIQF - Rd3
Derry
Rd3 - AISemi - Rd4 - Rd3 - AIQF
So, there you have it. Not a lot in it, but you certainly couldn't say Fermanagh have out-performed Donegal and Derry in the AI series.
All 3 have an AI QF & SF, RD 2 & RD 4 BUT Donegal and Derry have a Rd 3 Whereas Fermanagh have a RD 1 so donegal and Derry Edge it by 2 rounds from Fermanagh over last 5 Years.
How depressing, argueing over who has done the best in the Qualifiers.
Hope Fermanagh win next week as I think it would be good for football and would like to see Maxi who plays for us get an ulster medal as he is a good lad.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on July 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 08, 2008, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2008, 06:02:14 PM
I am not for sale.
Really, I heard that's what Ronaldo said to the President of Real Madrid when he complimented him on his amazing skills and expertise.
BTW a brilliant piece of posting to keep them going for 8 pages, some people are very sensitive. We are now getting the the old Tyrone conspiracy stories trotted out with the Armagh negativity. Looks like Armagh v The Universe supporting Fermanagh on 20th July thanks to you!
I'll be supporting the Orangies on the third Sunday. It's hard to beat a bit of tradition. Whilst Fermanagh are indeed there on merit, it does demean the proud histry of the Anglo-Celt Cup and can be taken as a reflection of how established, traditional powers (outwith Armagh) treat the Ulster championship.
Eh, i don't think SS is an armagh man?
Quote from: billy the kid on July 11, 2008, 02:12:36 PM
How depressing, argueing over who has done the best in the Qualifiers.
We have to talk about the qualifiers, because it appears Derry couldn't give two f**ks about Ulster.
(That's what we'll keep telling ourselves anyhow)
Quote from: Uladh on July 11, 2008, 02:37:34 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on July 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 08, 2008, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2008, 06:02:14 PM
I am not for sale.
Really, I heard that's what Ronaldo said to the President of Real Madrid when he complimented him on his amazing skills and expertise.
BTW a brilliant piece of posting to keep them going for 8 pages, some people are very sensitive. We are now getting the the old Tyrone conspiracy stories trotted out with the Armagh negativity. Looks like Armagh v The Universe supporting Fermanagh on 20th July thanks to you!
I'll be supporting the Orangies on the third Sunday. It's hard to beat a bit of tradition. Whilst Fermanagh are indeed there on merit, it does demean the proud histry of the Anglo-Celt Cup and can be taken as a reflection of how established, traditional powers (outwith Armagh) treat the Ulster championship.
Eh, i don't think SS is an armagh man?
So Saffron isn't a shade of orange??
The highlighted piece is brilliant btw :D
looks like things just took a turn for the worse youtube.com/watch?v=UAP-NTahnKs (http://youtube.com/watch?v=UAP-NTahnKs)
Christ that's bad.
Non armagh man declares support for armagh.
idiots deduce this means all armagh men are a bunch of band wagoners
This thread is just stupid lads. I suggest you all take a good hard look at yourselves.
Jays, I'm glad the rest of the country came round to my pov. I believe that Brolly gave Fermanagh some touch in today's Gaelic Life i.e. that the island of Ireland gave a collective sigh of relief when Fermanagh exited with their ultra-negative football and soocer fans.