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Following on from the Fat Tax thread...when it was suggested by my oul mate Snowed Under, that giving a child of 3 a slap was child abuse I want to know what people feel on this.

IMO a lot of parents don't bother to discipline their children any more resulting the type of society we have today. 
Of course I don't advocate beating them around the house!

So snowed under my question for you, you've a three year old who won't behave on a plane annoying all around them, you spend a hour shouting at them, telling them to sit down, be quiet, stop yapping etc - they still won't behave, what do you do?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 11:35:08 AM
Following on from the Fat Tax thread...when it was suggested by my oul mate Snowed Under, that giving a child of 3 a slap was child abuse I want to know what people feel on this.

IMO a lot of parents don't bother to discipline their children any more resulting the type of society we have today. 
Of course I don't advocate beating them around the house!

So snowed under my question for you, you've a three year old who won't behave on a plane annoying all around them, you spend a hour shouting at them, telling them to sit down, be quiet, stop yapping etc - they still won't behave, what do you do?

There's no harm in giving a child a quick skite across the ass or the hand. When the cane went from the schools, society was doomed.

by the age of three the child should know not to be doing what they were doing, so my child would not be doing it.
they would have got a skelp the first time they did it and it would be the last time they did it.

Back of the hand........

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 11:35:08 AM
Following on from the Fat Tax thread...when it was suggested by my oul mate Snowed Under, that giving a child of 3 a slap was child abuse I want to know what people feel on this.

IMO a lot of parents don't bother to discipline their children any more resulting the type of society we have today. 
Of course I don't advocate beating them around the house!

So snowed under my question for you, you've a three year old who won't behave on a plane annoying all around them, you spend a hour shouting at them, telling them to sit down, be quiet, stop yapping etc - they still won't behave, what do you do?

oh i'd throw them out of the plane :P christ pog the child wouldn't be on a plane everyday of the week what would you expect them to do sit down in a confined space for 4 or 5 hours or maybe longer

Quote
oh i'd throw them out of the plane Tongue christ pog the child wouldn't be on a plane everyday of the week what would you expect them to do sit down in a confined space for 4 or 5 hours or maybe longer

It was short plane journey and the child was screaming walking down the aisle to the seat and my prayers went unanswered and they sat behind me.

Quote from: man in black on November 13, 2007, 11:39:09 AM
When the cane went from the schools, society was doomed.

I don't know a single person who was the recipient of corporal punishment in school who still doesn't smoulder with resentment at the time some headcase of a teacher unjustly punished them.

I'm a bit conflicted about the idea of parents being able to hit their kids. I don't see it being inherently wrong, the odd smack to show who is boss - and parents are the boss - deosn't strike me as child abuse. Yet I can't see myself being able to lift my hand against a child. Another reason, if any were needed, why i'm not a politician. Trying to legislate for that would drive ye to drink.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 11:35:08 AM
Following on from the Fat Tax thread...when it was suggested by my oul mate Snowed Under, that giving a child of 3 a slap was child abuse I want to know what people feel on this.

IMO a lot of parents don't bother to discipline their children any more resulting the type of society we have today. 
Of course I don't advocate beating them around the house!

So snowed under my question for you, you've a three year old who won't behave on a plane annoying all around them, you spend a hour shouting at them, telling them to sit down, be quiet, stop yapping etc - they still won't behave, what do you do?

You are totally pathetic.  Children need discipline but they do not need a grown man to physically strike them; this is a cowardly and abusive act.  I still can't believe you are advocating "hitting a 3 year old a slap".  If a child is shown what is right and wrong by reward and non-reward, patience and love etc from the outset having to slap them will never be an issue my oldest is 4 and noone has ever laid a hand on him yet he is the most timid placid child around.  Slapping him at every opportunity would make the child resentful and add to any behaviourial problems; you most enjoy being a bully.

a wee slap now and again when they misbehave does no harm

abuse is a different matter

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2007, 12:04:53 PM
a wee slap now and again when they misbehave does no harm

abuse is a different matter

But what is a wee slap - a 14 stone man hitting a toddler a wee slap could cause real harm - ffs shaking a toddler could kill them

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2007, 12:04:53 PM
a wee slap now and again when they misbehave does no harm

abuse is a different matter

Exactly

My Ma was deadly with a Skol sandal from 10 yards , never did me any harm but I couldn't  hit my little one or lad for that matter . I think  the woman folk are the  main"enforcers" in Irish households anyway  :P

QuoteYou are totally pathetic.  Children need discipline but they do not need a grown man to physically strike them; this is a cowardly and abusive act.  I still can't believe you are advocating "hitting a 3 year old a slap".  If a child is shown what is right and wrong by reward and non-reward, patience and love etc from the outset having to slap them will never be an issue my oldest is 4 and noone has ever laid a hand on him yet he is the most timid placid child around. Slapping him at every opportunity would make the child resentful and add to any behaviourial problems; you most enjoy being a bully.

That's your child's personality, just the type that doesn't need a slap as shouting at them would be enough. 
Not all children are like that. 
For someone who brags about having children and says they know a lot about it, I'm surprised at that statment. 

QuoteBut what is a wee slap - a 14 stone man hitting a toddler a wee slap  could cause real harm - ffs shaking a toddler could kill them

I don't know any child that died from a slap on the arse or hand.  We're not advocating beating a child around the head you know.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:11:08 PM

QuoteYou are totally pathetic.  Children need discipline but they do not need a grown man to physically strike them; this is a cowardly and abusive act.  I still can't believe you are advocating "hitting a 3 year old a slap".  If a child is shown what is right and wrong by reward and non-reward, patience and love etc from the outset having to slap them will never be an issue my oldest is 4 and noone has ever laid a hand on him yet he is the most timid placid child around. Slapping him at every opportunity would make the child resentful and add to any behaviourial problems; you most enjoy being a bully.

That's your child's personality, just the type that doesn't need a slap as shouting at them would be enough. 
Not all children are like that. 
For someone who brags about having children and says they know a lot about it, I'm surprised at that statment. 

QuoteBut what is a wee slap - a 14 stone man hitting a toddler a wee slap  could cause real harm - ffs shaking a toddler could kill them

I don't know any child that died from a slap on the arse or hand.  We're not advocating beating a child around the head you know.

Hardly bragging by mentioning I am a parent - loads of people have mentioned it; I just don't like your attitude that all parents are selfish.

No you are just advocating physical violence on a helpless toddler - in other words you are bullying someone weaker than yourself; not that that surprises me.

Quote
No you are just advocating physical violence on a helpless toddler - in other words you are bullying someone weaker than yourself; not that that surprises me.

Whereas allowing a child to do what they want is a sign of love?

Pints

Do you have any children?

Slapping / hitting children certainly isn't for me, thank you.

QuotePints

Do you have any childern?

No, do you?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:17:47 PM

Quote
No you are just advocating physical violence on a helpless toddler - in other words you are bullying someone weaker than yourself; not that that surprises me.

Whereas allowing a child to do what they want is a sign of love?

You should be able to control a child with out hitting them.

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2007, 12:19:56 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:17:47 PM

Quote
No you are just advocating physical violence on a helpless toddler - in other words you are bullying someone weaker than yourself; not that that surprises me.

Whereas allowing a child to do what they want is a sign of love?

You should be able to control a child with out hitting them.

I use to argue that point too until my brother and sister started to have children and seen that was only true for some children.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:19:31 PM

QuotePints

Do you have any children?

No, do you?

Two, but my point would be that my attitudes have changed since they appeared and that whilst you found the behaviour on the flight objectionable, I may have been more understanding.  Certainly I would prefer that to an obese person encroaching on my space.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:22:06 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2007, 12:19:56 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:17:47 PM

Quote
No you are just advocating physical violence on a helpless toddler - in other words you are bullying someone weaker than yourself; not that that surprises me.

Whereas allowing a child to do what they want is a sign of love?

You should be able to control a child with out hitting them.

I use to argue that point too until my brother and sister started to have children and seen that was only true for some children.

I've never encountered in my admittedly limited experience with kids a child i had to resort to smacking

I rely on personal experience from my own childhood in figuring out the best combination of effectivness and mimimal cruelty. For me it was always preferable to get a slap than to be given some long drawn-out punishment like detention or lines in school or some form of privilege deprivation at home. For one thing, the slap always seemed to me a human response and was the best lesson of all in the effects of pushing people beyond their limits. Whereas the premeditated deprivation or enforcement type punishments always seemed to me peevish, bad minded and cruel.

Deiseach mentions the number of people who have seethed throughout their lives at unjust physical punishments. I must say that's not my experience at all and most take the rough with the smooth, balancing all the times we got away with stuff against the times we were framed. Apart, that is, from the Frank McCourt ilk who have made a living from the misery industry.

Of course this norm of behaviour in the Meath of my youth may be what has turned us into the psychopathic assassins that the rest of the country recognises.

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 12:07:57 PM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 13, 2007, 12:04:53 PM
a wee slap now and again when they misbehave does no harm

abuse is a different matter

But what is a wee slap - a 14 stone man hitting a toddler a wee slap could cause real harm - ffs shaking a toddler could kill them

common sense. a wee slap is a wee slap.
I have an unlcle who slapped his kids when they 'got out of hand'.
the same man actually knocked over a horse with a punch (true story)
I know he didnt do any damage to his kids. He could have , but obv common sense with a wee smack prevailed.

I think it depends on the child and the situation - whether they need a sharp sting of a slap to bring them to heel.
If the kid doesnt need it, then they dont obv have to get a slap.
Easy.
The parent/guardian doesnt have to exert much force in a slap. Its a shock tactic rather than a force tactic.

I think people think of 'slapping' and think of the extreme uncontrolled abuser type of scenario.
While this exists for a minute fraction of a percentage, I would expect the majority can controll themselves.
No one would tell me what I can / cannot do to control my kids.

Looking at society, you see the lack of parenting skills that are to be witnessed every night around the estates/houses up and down the country.

QuoteI rely on personal experience from my own childhood in figuring out the best combination of effectivness and mimimal cruelty. For me it was always preferable to get a slap than to be given some long drawn-out punishment like detention or lines in school or some form of privilege deprivation at home. For one thing, the slap always seemed to me a human response and was the best lesson of all in the effects of pushing people beyond their limits. Whereas the premeditated deprivation or enforcement type punishments always seemed to me peevish, bad minded and cruel.

That's an excellent point and I hadn't thought of it like that until now.  I would have always got a slap/clip around the ear at home but as I got older of course that stopped and I'd be roared and shouted at followed by the silent treatment - that was always worse - I'd rather a slap and be done with it! 


To those who don't believe in slapping, what forms of punishment would you advocate? 

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:22:06 PM
I use to argue that point too until my brother and sister started to have children and seen that was only true for some children.

When I first read that Pint, I had images of banjo-playing wanes staring down from a tree-hut, near a babbling brook in a mountain range somewhere in country Ireland. Phew.

I got a wallop (actually many wallops) from my ma.  My da never touched me, he just spoke/growled/roared and the point was made.  Mam punished but never injured me.  Mini-me is a great wane.  He does overstep the line and on a couple of occasions I have smacked his arse and the back of his hand.  But he is 6 now and knows right from wrong.  And when he makes a genuine mistake I take time to explain to him that it was a mistake and that he has done nothing wrong and that I love him.    I suppose his mother and I have been lucky as there are wanes at his school that need their arses warmed.

Quote from: Hardy on November 13, 2007, 12:26:36 PM
Deiseach mentions the number of people who have seethed throughout their lives at unjust physical punishments. I must say that's not my experience at all and most take the rough with the smooth, balancing all the times we got away with stuff against the times we were framed. Apart, that is, from the Frank McCourt ilk who have made a living from the misery industry.

I'm not saying these people are scarred by the experience or anything so dramatic. Just that everyone I have spoken to who has had experience of corporal punishment can point to someone who was totally unfit to be given such responsibility. And that's why the responsibility was (correctly, in my opinion) removed from their profession

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:17:47 PM

Quote
No you are just advocating physical violence on a helpless toddler - in other words you are bullying someone weaker than yourself; not that that surprises me.

Whereas allowing a child to do what they want is a sign of love?

No but teaching a child from the very early stages with patience and love will negate the need for him/her to act up for attention as all kids need and crave it.  Just hitting them a slap when you can't be arsed or they are annoying you is a cowardly and abusive act.

Quote from: Hardy on November 13, 2007, 12:26:36 PM
I rely on personal experience from my own childhood in figuring out the best combination of effectivness and mimimal cruelty. For me it was always preferable to get a slap than to be given some long drawn-out punishment like detention or lines in school or some form of privilege deprivation at home. For one thing, the slap always seemed to me a human response and was the best lesson of all in the effects of pushing people beyond their limits. Whereas the premeditated deprivation or enforcement type punishments always seemed to me peevish, bad minded and cruel.

Deiseach mentions the number of people who have seethed throughout their lives at unjust physical punishments. I must say that's not my experience at all and most take the rough with the smooth, balancing all the times we got away with stuff against the times we were framed. Apart, that is, from the Frank McCourt ilk who have made a living from the misery industry.

Of course this norm of behaviour in the Meath of my youth may be what has turned us into the psychopathic assassins that the rest of the country recognises.

How is a smack the best combination of effectivness and mimimal cruelty for you when you go on to admit it meant nothing to you but a momentary pain. Where as it seems the other forms of punishment made you think as you wanted to avoid them?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:34:07 PM

QuoteI rely on personal experience from my own childhood in figuring out the best combination of effectivness and mimimal cruelty. For me it was always preferable to get a slap than to be given some long drawn-out punishment like detention or lines in school or some form of privilege deprivation at home. For one thing, the slap always seemed to me a human response and was the best lesson of all in the effects of pushing people beyond their limits. Whereas the premeditated deprivation or enforcement type punishments always seemed to me peevish, bad minded and cruel.

That's an excellent point and I hadn't thought of it like that until now.  I would have always got a slap/clip around the ear at home but as I got older of course that stopped and I'd be roared and shouted at followed by the silent treatment - that was always worse - I'd rather a slap and be done with it! 


To those who don't believe in slapping, what forms of punishment would you advocate? 

10 minutes is a long time for a young child to think about that they did. Sitting in the corner always seems to work for me , if the behaviour isn't that bad just more annoying , ignoring it works wonders as espically if their are other kids around and they carry on playing.
As i've said no expert here just whats worked for me

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 12:45:49 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:17:47 PM

Quote
No you are just advocating physical violence on a helpless toddler - in other words you are bullying someone weaker than yourself; not that that surprises me.

Whereas allowing a child to do what they want is a sign of love?

No but teaching a child from the very early stages with patience and love will negate the need for him/her to act up for attention as all kids need and crave it.  Just hitting them a slap when you can't be arsed or they are annoying you is a cowardly and abusive act.

That's all well and good but some children don't take a blind bit of notice to what is said to them. 

You didn't answer my question - what forms of punishment do you advocate?

Quote
How is a smack the best combination of effectivness and mimimal cruelty for you when you go on to admit it meant nothing to you but a momentary pain. Where as it seems the other forms of punishment made you think as you wanted to avoid them?

IMO Becasue you'd know not to do it again as you didn't want the slap.  It's the long drawn out punishments that cause unnecessary misery.
Ignoring must have been what the mother on the plane was doing!
I've a nephew whos four and you'd have some hope of getting him to sit in a corner for 10 minutes to think about what he done!

I'd be a naughty step man now myself and have voted for this approach. With discipline it really pays off IMO. But sometimes the short sharp shock is a better solution that the emotional torture of putting someone on a step for a few minutes. I can't remember the last time I did it but have no issue with smacking as long as it is used as a tool to teach a child a lesson he/she needs to remember (i.e. Doing something which may endanger his/her own life...like running off away from you). Some lessons need to be learned quicker than others.

Quote from: deiseach on November 13, 2007, 12:44:50 PM
I'm not saying these people are scarred by the experience or anything so dramatic. Just that everyone I have spoken to who has had experience of corporal punishment can point to someone who was totally unfit to be given such responsibility. And that's why the responsibility was (correctly, in my opinion) removed from their profession

I'm with Deiseach on this one, and Mac Hinery can back me up when we think of some of the assassins who masqueraded as teachers at St.Pat's Maghera.  One female very senior member of staff used to have a strap about 3/4 inch thick and about a foot long with studs in it.  And how she administered "justice" with it.  She was deadly.  And "The Bob", himself the former "Dean of Discipline" at St.Columb's in Derry, used to always delegate the punishment to some of his lieutenants, the favourite being the Dunloy milkman.  Joe Sow was renowned for his stingers... only experienced that once.  But once was enough.

The worst was Cookie my primary school principal.  As vicious a person as God ever put on this planet.  When I think of him up at the altar giving out Communion it fecking makes me furious.    He would bate seven shades out of you.  Hoor.

I got many a slap off the auld lad when i was younger,It never done me any harm and i certainly don't resent him for it..I know there is a fine line between physical abuse and the odd slap on the arse,but i don't see anything wrong with as i said the odd slap now and again.
I do alot of work in people's houses and its is unreal the amount of out of control kids i come across and the parents don't even give out to them never mind a slap across the arse..

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:54:14 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 12:45:49 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:17:47 PM

Quote
No you are just advocating physical violence on a helpless toddler - in other words you are bullying someone weaker than yourself; not that that surprises me.

Whereas allowing a child to do what they want is a sign of love?

No but teaching a child from the very early stages with patience and love will negate the need for him/her to act up for attention as all kids need and crave it.  Just hitting them a slap when you can't be arsed or they are annoying you is a cowardly and abusive act.

That's all well and good but some children don't take a blind bit of notice to what is said to them. 

You didn't answer my question - what forms of punishment do you advocate?

Quote
How is a smack the best combination of effectivness and mimimal cruelty for you when you go on to admit it meant nothing to you but a momentary pain. Where as it seems the other forms of punishment made you think as you wanted to avoid them?

IMO Becasue you'd know not to do it again as you didn't want the slap.  It's the long drawn out punishments that cause unnecessary misery.
Ignoring must have been what the mother on the plane was doing!
I've a nephew whos four and you'd have some hope of getting him to sit in a corner for 10 minutes to think about what he done!

I advocate praise and reward for being good; on occassions where punishment is needed being sent to room to think about actions with no toys etc or being denied treats or toys all work; hitting a slap is the lazy man's way out and shows the adult to be a bully; inflicting physical pain on a toddler can not be advocated in any sense.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 11:35:08 AM
my question for you, you've a three year old who won't behave on a plane annoying all around them, you spend a hour shouting at them, telling them to sit down, be quiet, stop yapping etc - they still won't behave, what do you do?

You probably should have put talking rather than shouting in your question above. To answer the question with the options you have given I would go for the second option myself. But at that stage I would say out of frustration more than anything else. I can appreciate that for some kids (and yes some of them are just spoilt brats) a plane trip could be very boring. It is unlikely that the slap would achieve the desired results in that situation but most would probably try it anyway.

Pints I have to say, you do seem to be giving only two really options, you slap the child or you shout at them. These are both to do with discipline and punishment. Where does simply trying to talk to the child first and making them understand what they are doing come into it? Some kids are unruly little shits, others will respond to a talking to.

Yes I got a slap when I was a kid and yes I will use the line "It never did me any harm". I have two lads myself and the oldest is 8, yes I have given him a slap before when he was bold. But I can tell you this, it is not always the right thing, I can remember an occasion once where I gave him a good slap on the back of the leg. It stopped him misbehaving, it also stopped him talking to me for two days! (who do you think felt worse afterwards, me or him?)  I would genuinely believe that with most kids, problems can be sorted with talking, if they don't respond to this they normally will respond to the threat of a slap (once they know you are not bluffing) slapping should be the last action and not the first.

You are looking for alternatives POG, I'll give you one possible one at this time of year....
Kids like adults seem to go through phases of behaviour, this time last year, the aforementioned wee man was going through a right phase of giving his mother grief. Nothing seemed to be working until he I got an e-mail that santa asked to pass on to him!! Well when he read that his face went white and he cried, we reassured him that if he was a good boy that santa would come and wasn't he very good to warn him. Complete change in behaviour and Santa did come, problem solved as nothing like this behaviour has resurfaced since.

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on November 13, 2007, 01:19:50 PM
I got many a slap off the auld lad when i was younger,It never done me any harm and i certainly don't resent him for it..I know there is a fine line between physical abuse and the odd slap on the arse,but i don't see anything wrong with as i said the odd slap now and again.
I do alot of work in people's houses and its is unreal the amount of out of control kids i come across and the parents don't even give out to them never mind a slap across the arse..

There is some difference between out of control kids and kids in their own house having fun.  ::)

snowed under

QuoteI advocate praise and reward for being good; on occassions where punishment is needed being sent to room to think about actions with no toys etc or being denied treats or toys all work; hitting a slap is the lazy man's way out and shows the adult to be a bully; inflicting physical pain on a toddler can not be advocated in any sense.

So you'd rather prolong their misery? As someone else pointed out it's not the "inflicting of pain" in a slap it's the shock of it that is effective.  A slap on the arse or hand does not inflict pain. 

Quote
There is some difference between out of control kids and kids in their own house having fun.

and LL was talking about out of control kids.

Maybe if more children got a slap parents would have less trouble walking them through a car park.

Louthexile
I agree with you that talking/shouting/giving out is the first option.  I wouldn't advocate seeing a child doing something wrong and walking over and giving them a slap.  It's when the talking and shouting doesnt work or isn't enough the child needs a slap. 

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 01:23:51 PM

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on November 13, 2007, 01:19:50 PM
I got many a slap off the auld lad when i was younger,It never done me any harm and i certainly don't resent him for it..I know there is a fine line between physical abuse and the odd slap on the arse,but i don't see anything wrong with as i said the odd slap now and again.
I do alot of work in people's houses and its is unreal the amount of out of control kids i come across and the parents don't even give out to them never mind a slap across the arse..

There is some difference between out of control kids and kids in their own house having fun.  ::)

Im talking about kids who empty out the contents of my tool box or climb the ladders i'd have in a house or roar abuse at their parents when they don't get their way,If i say anything to them and tell them to get down off ladder or leave tool box alone the parents look at me as if im doing something wrong..There is not enough disipline on kids nowadays and i blame the parents

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 01:38:44 PM
snowed under

QuoteI advocate praise and reward for being good; on occassions where punishment is needed being sent to room to think about actions with no toys etc or being denied treats or toys all work; hitting a slap is the lazy man's way out and shows the adult to be a bully; inflicting physical pain on a toddler can not be advocated in any sense.

So you'd rather prolong their misery? As someone else pointed out it's not the "inflicting of pain" in a slap it's the shock of it that is effective.  A slap on the arse or hand does not inflict pain.  

Quote
There is some difference between out of control kids and kids in their own house having fun.

and LL was talking about out of control kids.

Maybe if more children got a slap parents would have less trouble walking them through a car park.

Louthexile
I agree with you that talking/shouting/giving out is the first option.  I wouldn't advocate seeing a child doing something wrong and walking over and giving them a slap.  It's when the talking and shouting doesnt work or isn't enough the child needs a slap. 

Pathetic pick another posters thoughts and now run with them - hit a toddler you are a bully; nothing a toddler could do would warrent a fully grown man hitting them a slap; and if for one moment you think one slap is all it's going take you are very much mistaken.  The parent will see that the "slap" caused the unacceptable / bad behaviour to stop and continue with his lazy approach of slapping to achieve results though the "shock" value might be gone after a while but here just hit harder the next time.  ::)

As for the out of control kids what were they doing pulling the house down - lighting fires in the living room or being kids and having fun in their own home.

The reality is that any parent who keeps a good eye on the behaviour of his kids, they rarely step out of line to the point where a slap is the only option left to them. The look and tone of his/her voice normally works, before things get out of hand, but the will be exceptions. The Parents who have poorly disciplined kids are the the ones to blame for them being that way.

laoislad

QuotePathetic pick another posters thoughts and now run with them - hit a toddler you are a bully; nothing a toddler could do would warrent a fully grown man hitting them a slap; and if for one moment you think one slap is all it's going take you are very much mistaken.  The parent will see that the "slap" caused the unacceptable / bad behaviour to stop and continue with his lazy approach of slapping to achieve results though the "shock" value might be gone after a while but her just hit harder the next time.  Roll Eyes

As for the out of control kids what were they doing pulling the house down - lighting fires in the living room or being kids and having fun in their own home.

I don't need to pick on laoislad's thoughts - I know exactly what he's talking about as I experience it myself.
A three year old is getting ready to go to school - may already be at nursery - and it's up to the parent to teach them right from young, even at that young age.  Are you telling me a three year old understands you explaining a load of nonsense to them or understands you won't buy them sweets because of something they done yesterday? 
The lazy and selfish way out is sending them off to school and expecting teachers and then a babysitter to deal with them.  I suppose your form of punishment is grand if you spend only a few hours a day with your child. 

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 01:55:52 PM
laoislad

QuotePathetic pick another posters thoughts and now run with them - hit a toddler you are a bully; nothing a toddler could do would warrent a fully grown man hitting them a slap; and if for one moment you think one slap is all it's going take you are very much mistaken.  The parent will see that the "slap" caused the unacceptable / bad behaviour to stop and continue with his lazy approach of slapping to achieve results though the "shock" value might be gone after a while but her just hit harder the next time.  Roll Eyes

As for the out of control kids what were they doing pulling the house down - lighting fires in the living room or being kids and having fun in their own home.

I don't need to pick on laoislad's thoughts - I know exactly what he's talking about as I experience it myself.
A three year old is getting ready to go to school - may already be at nursery - and it's up to the parent to teach them right from young, even at that young age.  Are you telling me a three year old understands you explaining a load of nonsense to them or understands you won't buy them sweets because of something they done yesterday? 
The lazy and selfish way out is sending them off to school and expecting teachers and then a babysitter to deal with them.  I suppose your form of punishment is grand if you spend only a few hours a day with your child. 

I don't agree with extending the punishment over hours let alone day(s) for young kids , if they are bold you deal with it their and then so the know simply the previous action lead to this. FFS if the cats understand when i throw them out not to do what they where doing before a child will easly understand it . Are you telling me a 3 year old cant understand a simple statement but will understand not to hit other kids to punish them like Daddy does?

Also how old do you smack till 6 ,8,10 ,15? And what do you do then?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 01:55:52 PM
laoislad

QuotePathetic pick another posters thoughts and now run with them - hit a toddler you are a bully; nothing a toddler could do would warrent a fully grown man hitting them a slap; and if for one moment you think one slap is all it's going take you are very much mistaken.  The parent will see that the "slap" caused the unacceptable / bad behaviour to stop and continue with his lazy approach of slapping to achieve results though the "shock" value might be gone after a while but her just hit harder the next time.  Roll Eyes

As for the out of control kids what were they doing pulling the house down - lighting fires in the living room or being kids and having fun in their own home.

I don't need to pick on laoislad's thoughts - I know exactly what he's talking about as I experience it myself.
A three year old is getting ready to go to school - may already be at nursery - and it's up to the parent to teach them right from young, even at that young age.  Are you telling me a three year old understands you explaining a load of nonsense to them or understands you won't buy them sweets because of something they done yesterday? 
The lazy and selfish way out is sending them off to school and expecting teachers and then a babysitter to deal with them.  I suppose your form of punishment is grand if you spend only a few hours a day with your child. 

You only start school at 5 where I live.  It is up to the parents to teach them right from wrong but do you think a child who goes into nusery and decides he wants another childs toy won't whack them for it; after all Daddy when he doesn't get his way; i.e. child to behave, whacks him so it must be ok.  You can't give me a resonable example where physical violence on a toddler is justified; it all steems to you being a bully to a small weak human being. you should be ashamed.  By the way as you have no kids I'll tell you it's amazing what a 3 year old understands even a one year old's grasp of things astonishes me.

As for the pathetic attempt to mark parents as selfish cause they work etc.  ::)

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2007, 02:03:06 PM
Also how old do you smack till 6 ,8,10 ,15? And what do you do then?

You try hiting a 15 year old, he'll punch back

Quote from: theskull1 on November 13, 2007, 01:52:40 PM
The reality is that any parent who keeps a good eye on the behaviour of his kids, they rarely step out of line to the point where a slap is the only option left to them. The look and tone of his/her voice normally works, before things get out of hand, but the will be exceptions. The Parents who have poorly disciplined kids are the the ones to blame for them being that way.

Totally agree with you there skull as you said the way you say something normally works. I have 2 kids the eldest been 5 and i have to admit that i have only slapped on 1 occasion as louth exile said i felt worse afterwards the my child. i am no way a pefect parent however my children do have manners and would respect other kids . i myself can't undestand parents who let kids do what they want as if they were invisible.
Parenting is a tough  it ain't easy however it is so rewarding, my hope is that in the future when my children  are older that they will consider me their friend as well as their dad just as my parents are that to me and if i go around slapping them the whole time that ain't going to happen.

Quote from: Louth Exile on November 13, 2007, 02:17:33 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2007, 02:03:06 PM
Also how old do you smack till 6 ,8,10 ,15? And what do you do then?

You try hiting a 15 year old, he'll punch back

So how do you punish them ?

Gnevin

QuoteI don't agree with extending the punishment over hours let alone day(s) for young kids , if they are bold you deal with it their and then so the know simply the previous action lead to this. FFS if the cats understand when i throw them out not to do what they where doing before a child will easly understand it . Are you telling me a 3 year old cant understand a simple statement but will understand not to hit other kids to punish them like Daddy does?

Also how old do you smack till 6 ,8,10 ,15? And what do you do then?

Louth

QuoteYou try hiting a 15 year old, he'll punch back

I would have got a clip around the ear when I was 15 - after that you're out on your own - parents job should be done.
I think there's an exception with girls though - a father should not be hitting his daughter. 

A 3 year old can understand he got smacked because he done X and can also understand he isn't allowed to hit others. 
He will not understand why he's being punished for something he done yesterday, which to him seems like 12 months ago.

snowedunder

QuoteYou can't give me a resonable example where physical violence on a toddler is justified; it all steems to you being a bully to a small weak human being. you should be ashamed.  By the way as you have no kids I'll tell you it's amazing what a 3 year old understands even a one year old's grasp of things astonishes me.

I'm not advocating physical violence on a toddler. 
Even I have no kids some of your statments makes me think I know a lot more about them.  I've a nephew who just turned 4 and I know he has no concept of time, yesterday seems like weeks ago to him, he rambles about things that happened weeks ago as if they happened 5 minutes ago, if you tell him he has to wait 5 minutes for something you might as well tell him he has to wait hours and if you refused to buy him sweets/let him watch tv over something he done yesterday he would not have a clue what you're talking about and it would cause him a great deal more stress and misery than a slap would.
He has however no difficulty understanding why he gets smacked and that he's not allowed to hit.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 12:54:14 PM

Quote
How is a smack the best combination of effectivness and mimimal cruelty for you when you go on to admit it meant nothing to you but a momentary pain. Where as it seems the other forms of punishment made you think as you wanted to avoid them?

IMO Becasue you'd know not to do it again as you didn't want the slap.  It's the long drawn out punishments that cause unnecessary misery.

What he said.

Deiseach - point taken. Of course it was right to remove corporal punishment from the armoury of teachers. Even a 1% incidence of psychopaths is too much risk. Of course, as for all such decisions, the consequences were not exclusively positive.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:35:10 PM
Gnevin

QuoteI don't agree with extending the punishment over hours let alone day(s) for young kids , if they are bold you deal with it their and then so the know simply the previous action lead to this. FFS if the cats understand when i throw them out not to do what they where doing before a child will easly understand it . Are you telling me a 3 year old cant understand a simple statement but will understand not to hit other kids to punish them like Daddy does?

Also how old do you smack till 6 ,8,10 ,15? And what do you do then?

Louth

QuoteYou try hiting a 15 year old, he'll punch back

I would have got a clip around the ear when I was 15 - after that you're out on your own - parents job should be done.
I think there's an exception with girls though - a father should not be hitting his daughter. 

A 3 year old can understand he got smacked because he done X and can also understand he isn't allowed to hit others. 
He will not understand why he's being punished for something he done yesterday, which to him seems like 12 months ago.

snowedunder

QuoteYou can't give me a resonable example where physical violence on a toddler is justified; it all steems to you being a bully to a small weak human being. you should be ashamed.  By the way as you have no kids I'll tell you it's amazing what a 3 year old understands even a one year old's grasp of things astonishes me.

I'm not advocating physical violence on a toddler. 
Even I have no kids some of your statments makes me think I know a lot more about them.  I've a nephew who just turned 4 and I know he has no concept of time, yesterday seems like weeks ago to him, he rambles about things that happened weeks ago as if they happened 5 minutes ago, if you tell him he has to wait 5 minutes for something you might as well tell him he has to wait hours and if you refused to buy him sweets/let him watch tv over something he done yesterday he would not have a clue what you're talking about and it would cause him a great deal more stress and misery than a slap would.
He has however no difficulty understanding why he gets smacked and that he's not allowed to hit.

You obviously can't read at all - where did this come from whats this about punishing someone for something they did yesterday - I think you have me confused with someone else - reread my posts and btw a 3 year old is a toddler - slapping them is physical violence - you think that is fine - you are advocating physical violence towards a toddler.

Aren't you advocating punishment like taking away treats?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
Aren't you advocating punishment like taking away treats?

Yes but I would give my oldest a treat a day - should that be sweets; allowed to watch a DVD; allowed to stay up late; allowed his favourite tea, all very important things to a young child - if he is bold it is taken away that day - he knows the next day it will happen again if there is a repetition; I never once said about dragging it over days.

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 02:52:42 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
Aren't you advocating punishment like taking away treats?

Yes but I would give my oldest a treat a day - should that be sweets; allowed to watch a DVD; allowed to stay up late; allowed his favourite tea, all very important things to a young child - if he is bold it is taken away that day - he knows the next day it will happen again if there is a repetition; I never once said about dragging it over days.

But that's the same thing and my earlier points still stands, you are prolonging the misery. 

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:55:31 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 02:52:42 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
Aren't you advocating punishment like taking away treats?

Yes but I would give my oldest a treat a day - should that be sweets; allowed to watch a DVD; allowed to stay up late; allowed his favourite tea, all very important things to a young child - if he is bold it is taken away that day - he knows the next day it will happen again if there is a repetition; I never once said about dragging it over days.

But that's the same thing and my earlier points still stands, you are prolonging the misery. 

I'm not physically abusing my child though; as I said a lazy mans and a bullys apprroach - hit them a slap - needs no explaining, no thinking no hard work, slap and walk away.

another qu,

1. did any of ye get slapped as a child by your parents/guardians, and did it do you any harm?
2. do you have any resentment towards the person?

1. Yes , no harm taught me though
2. no way!!

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:35:10 PM
Gnevin

QuoteI don't agree with extending the punishment over hours let alone day(s) for young kids , if they are bold you deal with it their and then so the know simply the previous action lead to this. FFS if the cats understand when i throw them out not to do what they where doing before a child will easly understand it . Are you telling me a 3 year old cant understand a simple statement but will understand not to hit other kids to punish them like Daddy does?

Also how old do you smack till 6 ,8,10 ,15? And what do you do then?

Louth

QuoteYou try hiting a 15 year old, he'll punch back

I would have got a clip around the ear when I was 15 - after that you're out on your own - parents job should be done.
I think there's an exception with girls though - a father should not be hitting his daughter. 

A 3 year old can understand he got smacked because he done X and can also understand he isn't allowed to hit others. 
He will not understand why he's being punished for something he done yesterday, which to him seems like 12 months ago.

As i said POG they should be punished their and then i don't agree with no sweets at the end of week stuff when the end of the day is like a life time for a kid

Depends how hard you hit

Quote from: Hardy on November 13, 2007, 02:39:56 PM
Of course, as for all such decisions, the consequences were not exclusively positive.

Agreed. There's no getting away from the fact that discipline has gotten worse in schools as a direct result of the removal of corporal punishment. While the teachers unions get into a flap over pay, all the teachers I know (two siblings, one sister-in-law, one cousin, one wife) will tell you that discipline is the biggest issue.

What the answer is . . .

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 03:00:11 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:55:31 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 02:52:42 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
Aren't you advocating punishment like taking away treats?

Yes but I would give my oldest a treat a day - should that be sweets; allowed to watch a DVD; allowed to stay up late; allowed his favourite tea, all very important things to a young child - if he is bold it is taken away that day - he knows the next day it will happen again if there is a repetition; I never once said about dragging it over days.

But that's the same thing and my earlier points still stands, you are prolonging the misery. 

I'm not physically abusing my child though; as I said a lazy mans and a bullys apprroach - hit them a slap - needs no explaining, no thinking no hard work, slap and walk away.

Well if you're happy saying "i'm not physically abusing my child" fair enough but you are prolonging his misery and taking away things from him that you should be enjoying with him. 

Quote
1. did any of ye get slapped as a child by your parents/guardians, and did it do you any harm?
2. do you have any resentment towards the person?

1. Yeah and deserved every one, not a bit of harm done.
2. No

Im looking forward to receiving the GAAboard's guide to parenting for Christmas.

Pre-parenthood I was the idealist, now everything depends on the situation. you learn with your children as they grow, sometimes you have to decide based on their mood what is going to be the most effective way of dealing with any situation. Its not easy...

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 03:11:02 PM
1. Yeah and deserved every one, not a bit of harm done.

Everyone here would beg to differ.

I jest. I jest because I care.

They say hard cases make bad laws and I believe that the removal of corporal punishment from schools, largely due to the brutality meted out by a few amadáns, has led to a much bigger disciplinary problem in schools nowadays. There is a difference between physically disciplining someone and 'beating them up'. I believe the former has a place in schools, while the latter doesn't.

As for the whole argument about disciplining your child, it's a tough one. I wouldn't castigate a parent that hits a child a smack, especially for something that needs to be emphasised quickly like running away from you, running across the road, going at a fire etc etc. However, I hate to see kids getting a clip, and would only use it myself, I hope, in those extreme circumstances. My little fella is 13 months now, and I'm sure that over the next few years the situation will arise, and all I can do is try and use my best judgement, erring on the side of not smacking. I'm not looking forward to it, but I want to do my best to raise the lad right.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 03:11:02 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 03:00:11 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:55:31 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 02:52:42 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
Aren't you advocating punishment like taking away treats?

Yes but I would give my oldest a treat a day - should that be sweets; allowed to watch a DVD; allowed to stay up late; allowed his favourite tea, all very important things to a young child - if he is bold it is taken away that day - he knows the next day it will happen again if there is a repetition; I never once said about dragging it over days.

But that's the same thing and my earlier points still stands, you are prolonging the misery. 

I'm not physically abusing my child though; as I said a lazy mans and a bullys apprroach - hit them a slap - needs no explaining, no thinking no hard work, slap and walk away.

Well if you're happy saying "i'm not physically abusing my child" fair enough but you are prolonging his misery and taking away things from him that you should be enjoying with him. 

Quote
1. did any of ye get slapped as a child by your parents/guardians, and did it do you any harm?
2. do you have any resentment towards the person?

1. Yeah and deserved every one, not a bit of harm done.
2. No

Pathetic pathetic pathetic; on the occassions I have to punish I teach him that what he did was wrong by not slapping him - if your happy to slap your nephews you work away; but to me you are a bully.

Snowed Under, I would have answered the same, yes I got slapped by my parents, and No, I don't resent them for it. I understand they were trying to teach me right from wrong.


1 thing I really disagree with is 'wait 'till your father gets home'. That is just wrong. First of all the father becomes the punisher, and secondly, the child is left sick with worry all day. If a smack is to be given out, give it immediately, and at the time of the offence.

There is only one case when it os OK to hit a kid and that is if they are in serious danger and can't be stopped any other way (e.g. if they're about to walk into a road or go to close to a fire). Hitting in any other circumstances is just bullying, nothing more and nothing less.

Pints you've opened another can of worms I think your phrasing of the example and your language does you no favours; here's my two cents worth:

1. I was slapped as a child on the hands by both teachers and my parents. My mum says it killed my old man to slap me, but it sure didnt feel like it to me. 6 of the best with the wooden spoon. Did me no harm, infact, probably kept me out of alot of trouble.

2. While a child should never be scared of anyone, a little spank now and then does no harm - we are all sensible enough to know that there is a huge line between physically disciplining a kid, and child abuse. Unfortunately some parents have abused children in the past. Banning physical punishment for children will not eradicate this behaviour.

3. My nephews are the most ill mannered little bastards ever put on this earth. They've had a number of dad/father figures, none of whom have ever given a decent example to the kids. They have never been disciplined (except in the american, time out, loss of priviledges kind of way). They have zero respect for their teachers, fellow classmates, the rest of the family - because its never been instilled in them. These kids are going down a bad path real quick - and its largely due to the fact that they have never been disciplined. Fact is conventional discipline does not work for alot of kids. A couple of smacks for repeated bad behaviour would maybe have led them down a different path.

4. Im glad I got the discipline I did when I was younger, It instilled good manners in me, and I understood that bad behaviour didnt go un punished - something kids today will grow up not realising until its a broken law, and a punihsment much worse than 6 of the best.

5. On a more anecdotal note, my primary school teacher hit me with the following:

Black slipper
Duster
Ruler
Knuckles
an apple in her hand until it got bruised

I even got slapped by a teacher at the brothers! :D :D

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 13, 2007, 03:19:52 PM
Snowed Under, I would have answered the same, yes I got slapped by my parents, and No, I don't resent them for it. I understand they were trying to teach me right from wrong.


1 thing I really disagree with is 'wait 'till your father gets home'. That is just wrong. First of all the father becomes the punisher, and secondly, the child is left sick with worry all day. If a smack is to be given out, give it immediately, and at the time of the offence.

AZOffally, that was just the worst! Christ the anticpation and then your stomach sank as you heard the car pull into the driveway. When I got smacked at school I got smacked again at home for getting smacked at school!

I don't know if I would like to be judge and jury on parents who smack their kids if they are bold Sammy, I am loathe to call it bullying certainly. I do however agree with you to the extent that I hope the only time I feel I have to slap my child would be to scare them from doing something that might get them hurt.

I do think terms like bullying, abuse etc etc are highly emotive though, and are not really applicable in the case of someone using a smack on the bottom or hand of a child. Obviously there are *other* cases where those terms are very apt.

Quote from: Puckoon on November 13, 2007, 03:23:30 PM
Im glad I got the discipline I did when I was younger, It instilled good manners in me

What happened since that you lost it?

Ah, this is shooting fish in a barrel.

Quote from: Puckoon on November 13, 2007, 03:23:30 PM


3. My nephews are the most ill mannered little bastards ever put on this earth. They've had a number of dad/father figures, none of whom have ever given a decent example to the kids. They have never been disciplined (except in the american, time out, loss of priviledges kind of way). They have zero respect for their teachers, fellow classmates, the rest of the family - because its never been instilled in them. These kids are going down a bad path real quick - and its largely due to the fact that they have never been disciplined. Fact is conventional discipline does not work for alot of kids. A couple of smacks for repeated bad behaviour would maybe have led them down a different path.

No amount of smacking is going to change that they are following poor examples

SammyG = Idealist

QuoteThere is only one case when it os OK to hit a kid and that is if they are in serious danger and can't be stopped any other way (e.g. if they're about to walk into a road or go to close to a fire). Hitting in any other circumstances is just bullying, nothing more and nothing less.

Quote from: Louth Exile on November 13, 2007, 02:17:33 PM

Quote from: Gnevin on November 13, 2007, 02:03:06 PM
Also how old do you smack till 6 ,8,10 ,15? And what do you do then?

You try hiting a 15 year old, he'll punch back

Not if you wait for 6 years and there are 10 of you and you have iron bars.
Im finding it hard to see the difference in slapping a child for being bold and beating a young fella for being (very) bold. Now im not talking about the killing but the view shared by many here that a bit of a beating is a good thing for a young lad. What age does it stop being a slapping and becomes a beating?

I would say if you are still 'smacking' a child after they are 7 or 8 or so, it's a lost battle anyway. And in fairness ludermor, surely you are not equating punishment beatings with someone hitting a child a smack on the bottom?

Quote
Pathetic pathetic pathetic; on the occassions I have to punish I teach him that what he did was wrong by not slapping him - if your happy to slap your nephews you work away; but to me you are a bully.

My nephew knows exactly why he got smacked and what exactly he was doing wrong and that if he had to stop when he was told he woudlnt' have got smacked.


sammy the difiniton from dictionary.com of bully is

QuoteA person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.

I think that speaks for itself.  I'd describe neither of my parents as bullies. 

Puckoon

Quote
Pints you've opened another can of worms I think your phrasing of the example and your language does you no favours; here's my two cents worth:

what do you mean?

He means you are like the Victor Meldrew of this board. You are the internet equivalent of running a 6 inch nail down a blackboard :D

no im not but someone mentioned a 15yr old. A smack on the bottom wouldnt have the same effect, ( might guide him towards a carreer in hair dressing though)

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 13, 2007, 03:35:38 PM
He means you are like the Victor Meldrew of this board. You are the internet equivalent of running a 6 inch nail down a blackboard :D

:(


At 15 the work should be done luder, at 15 if you've any respect for your parents, your parents being annoyed with you is punishment enough.

when I was 15 if my parents were annoyed it was a sign I was doing something right....

I suppose for some that's true.
I wasn't really like that.   :-\

so how would you discipline a 15yr old?

Quote from: ludermor on November 13, 2007, 03:44:37 PM
so how would you discipline a 15yr old?

same as I got, a clip round the ear. 

Ah no. At 15, things like withholding pocketmoney, grounding would be more effective.

Im curious, you think its ok to smack kids, hit teenagers, beat adults. Do you draw a line anywhere? Old women? And i am asking honestly.

Quote from: ludermor on November 13, 2007, 03:57:39 PM
Im curious, you think its ok to smack kids, hit teenagers, beat adults. Do you draw a line anywhere? Old women? And i am asking honestly.

I don't think it's ok to beat adults, where did this come from? 
I shed no tears over a little thug.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 03:33:24 PM

Quote
Pathetic pathetic pathetic; on the occassions I have to punish I teach him that what he did was wrong by not slapping him - if your happy to slap your nephews you work away; but to me you are a bully.

My nephew knows exactly why he got smacked and what exactly he was doing wrong and that if he had to stop when he was told he woudlnt' have got smacked.


sammy the difiniton from dictionary.com of bully is

QuoteA person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.

I think that speaks for itself.  I'd describe neither of my parents as bullies. 

Puckoon

Quote
Pints you've opened another can of worms I think your phrasing of the example and your language does you no favours; here's my two cents worth:

what do you mean?

I mean your example. I agree that children need physical discipline, but not a three year old who is being noisy on a plane. Say an 8 year old who stole a quid from your pocket, or lied to you (as their parent of course).

a 3 year old going mad on a plane (before it even takes off) does need discipline.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 04:03:30 PM
a 3 year old going mad on a plane (before it even takes off) does need discipline.

what is going mad pog?

he might cry but he'll stop in a few minutes and it'll save everyone the whole plane journey of a screaming spoilt brat.

Quotewhat is going mad pog?

screaming and yapping and beating the face of it's mother over something it wants.

Sorry i thought you did say it was ok to give a lad a beating ( i did say not kill) when you cant trust the police to do their jobs. If you didnt i apologise

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 04:08:09 PM
he might cry but he'll stop in a few minutes and it'll save everyone the whole plane journey of a screaming spoilt brat.

Quotewhat is going mad pog?

screaming and yapping and beating the face of it's mother over something it wants.

How about a little rum in the milk. That ought to do the trick!

Quote from: ludermor on November 13, 2007, 04:08:32 PM
Sorry i thought you did say it was ok to give a lad a beating ( i did say not kill) when you cant trust the police to do their jobs. If you didnt i apologise

I dont think it's ok as such, there's plenty wrong with it, but I have no sympathy.

QuoteHow about a little rum in the milk. That ought to do the trick!

Well I wouldnt agree with that but after watching this show one night where the parents would starve new born babies during the day and then give two feeds at night so they'd sleep all night - just so parents could have a night's sleep - today's selfish parents are capable of anything!

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 04:08:09 PM
he might cry but he'll stop in a few minutes and it'll save everyone the whole plane journey of a screaming spoilt brat.

It's easy to see you don't have any kids. If kids have so little respect and don't know how to behave on a plane (or anywhere else), I'm not sure how hitting them is going to fix anything. Usually the sort of hyperactive, noisy disrespectful kids are the ones who's ma's beat them black and blue but wouldn't know how to be a parent if you paid them.

On a slightly different tack if an adult was being stroppy on a plane (say through being nervous or having a few too many sherries), would you deck them as well or is it just kids?

QuoteIt's easy to see you don't have any kids. If kids have so little respect and don't know how to behave on a plane (or anywhere else), I'm not sure how hitting them is going to fix anything. Usually the sort of hyperactive, noisy disrespectful kids are the ones who's ma's beat them black and blue but wouldn't know how to be a parent if you paid them.

Not in my expereince!

Quote
On a slightly different tack if an adult was being stroppy on a plane (say through being nervous or having a few too many sherries), would you deck them as well or is it just kids?

if the adult was with me and causing a scene I'd tell them to shut up, just like I'd tell the child.

Quote from: SammyG on November 13, 2007, 04:15:46 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 04:08:09 PM

On a slightly different tack if an adult was being stroppy on a plane (say through being nervous or having a few too many sherries), would you deck them as well or is it just kids?

lock them in the toilet

Lets be honest here, this is getting silly, theres a huge difference between giving a small child a light smack on the bum and abuse.

To suggest otherwise is idiotic, then again I'd expect no more from Snowed Under who accused me recently of parking in disabled spaces then didnt have the balls to back up his comments.

Would a hard smack be abuse? Does it have to be a closed fist?

Quote from: ludermor on November 13, 2007, 05:17:42 PM
Would a hard smack be abuse? Does it have to be a closed fist?

Depends how hard you smack, if you smack as hard as you possibly can, then its obviously over the top.
Common sense tells you how hard is hard enough.

a flick of the wrist and no more, your holiness

Quote from: whiskeysteve on November 13, 2007, 05:35:42 PM
a flick of the wrist and no more, your holiness

:o

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 05:08:05 PM
Lets be honest here, this is getting silly, theres a huge difference between giving a small child a light smack on the bum and abuse.

To suggest otherwise is idiotic, then again I'd expect no more from Snowed Under who accused me recently of parking in disabled spaces then didnt have the balls to back up his comments.

So not only do you disrespect disables parking spaces; you too are a bully who thinks its ok to impose his physical presence on a child; you should be ashamed of yourself.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 04:15:09 PM

Quote from: ludermor on November 13, 2007, 04:08:32 PM
Sorry i thought you did say it was ok to give a lad a beating ( i did say not kill) when you cant trust the police to do their jobs. If you didnt i apologise

I dont think it's ok as such, there's plenty wrong with it, but I have no sympathy.

QuoteHow about a little rum in the milk. That ought to do the trick!

Well I wouldnt agree with that but after watching this show one night where the parents would starve new born babies during the day and then give two feeds at night so they'd sleep all night - just so parents could have a night's sleep - today's selfish parents are capable of anything!

You really have some chip on your shoulder!

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 04:19:59 PM

QuoteIt's easy to see you don't have any kids. If kids have so little respect and don't know how to behave on a plane (or anywhere else), I'm not sure how hitting them is going to fix anything. Usually the sort of hyperactive, noisy disrespectful kids are the ones who's ma's beat them black and blue but wouldn't know how to be a parent if you paid them.

Not in my expereince!

Quote
On a slightly different tack if an adult was being stroppy on a plane (say through being nervous or having a few too many sherries), would you deck them as well or is it just kids?

if the adult was with me and causing a scene I'd tell them to shut up, just like I'd tell the child.

You said you'd slap the child; would you slap the adult; no because you are a bully and a coward.

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:02:17 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 05:08:05 PM
Lets be honest here, this is getting silly, theres a huge difference between giving a small child a light smack on the bum and abuse.

To suggest otherwise is idiotic, then again I'd expect no more from Snowed Under who accused me recently of parking in disabled spaces then didnt have the balls to back up his comments.

So not only do you disrespect disables parking spaces; you too are a bully who thinks its ok to impose his physical presence on a child; you should be ashamed of yourself.

Are you ever ashamed of yourself? I get more and more mortified for you with every post.

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:02:17 PM
So not only do you disrespect disables parking spaces; you too are a bully who thinks its ok to impose his physical presence on a child; you should be ashamed of yourself.

Disrespect disable parking spaces???? You are talking complete and utter rubbish, I beleive every facility should have ample disabled spaces and would never park in one.

And I am not a bully by any means, I am talking a light slap, which I recieved when young myself, and never from a bully.

You owe me an apology for suggesting I would park in a disabled space btw.

Grow a set of balls and do it rather than your usual trick of making wild accusations or personal insults, then dissappearing when confronted over it.

[Edited by Mod3]

God were to start!!

Firstly I suppose it depends on the situation. A clip by a parent should be light and inflict virtually no pain.  It's the slap itself that can signal that a parent is really mad, not the actual  pain, which can make a child behave. Course it should be a last resort but I can understand why some parents use it.

Lets say a parent is crossing a carpark ( Leave it POG  ;) ) and the child starts to misbehave. would threatening him/her with the naughty step when they get home really work? As pints say children tend to think only for the present, so what other methods of discipline would be an option at this stage?

Quote from: Puckoon on November 13, 2007, 06:06:50 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:02:17 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 05:08:05 PM
Lets be honest here, this is getting silly, theres a huge difference between giving a small child a light smack on the bum and abuse.

To suggest otherwise is idiotic, then again I'd expect no more from Snowed Under who accused me recently of parking in disabled spaces then didnt have the balls to back up his comments.

So not only do you disrespect disables parking spaces; you too are a bully who thinks its ok to impose his physical presence on a child; you should be ashamed of yourself.

Are you ever ashamed of yourself? I get more and more mortified for you with every post.

Why because I won't slap a helpless toddler.  ::)

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:09:40 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:02:17 PM
So not only do you disrespect disables parking spaces; you too are a bully who thinks its ok to impose his physical presence on a child; you should be ashamed of yourself.

Disrespect disable parking spaces???? You are talking complete and utter rubbish, I beleive every facility should have ample disabled spaces and would never park in one.

And I am not a bully by any means, I am talking a light slap, which I recieved when young myself, and never from a bully.

You owe me an apology for suggesting I would park in a disabled space btw.

Grow a set of balls and do it rather than your usual trick of making wild accusations or personal insults, then dissappearing when confronted over it.

I also know the moderator - well he knows me which is why you can post this; hes a good lad.   ::)

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:22:07 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:09:40 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:02:17 PM
So not only do you disrespect disables parking spaces; you too are a bully who thinks its ok to impose his physical presence on a child; you should be ashamed of yourself.

Disrespect disable parking spaces???? You are talking complete and utter rubbish, I beleive every facility should have ample disabled spaces and would never park in one.

And I am not a bully by any means, I am talking a light slap, which I recieved when young myself, and never from a bully.

You owe me an apology for suggesting I would park in a disabled space btw.

Grow a set of balls and do it rather than your usual trick of making wild accusations or personal insults, then dissappearing when confronted over it.

So do I and dubnut - so what?  I also know the the moderator - well he knows me which is why you can post this.  ;)

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Avoiding it again eh?

Come on, explain your disable parking spaces comments.

Grow some balls and back up your shite talk or stop making stuff up.

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:24:44 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:22:07 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:09:40 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:02:17 PM
So not only do you disrespect disables parking spaces; you too are a bully who thinks its ok to impose his physical presence on a child; you should be ashamed of yourself.

Disrespect disable parking spaces???? You are talking complete and utter rubbish, I beleive every facility should have ample disabled spaces and would never park in one.

And I am not a bully by any means, I am talking a light slap, which I recieved when young myself, and never from a bully.

You owe me an apology for suggesting I would park in a disabled space btw.

Grow a set of balls and do it rather than your usual trick of making wild accusations or personal insults, then dissappearing when confronted over it.

So do I and dubnut - so what?  I also know the the moderator - well he knows me which is why you can post this.  ;)

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Avoiding it again eh?

Come on, explain your disable parking spaces comments.

Grow some balls and back up your shite talk or stop making stuff up.

Read back your comments - you want me to do your job for you as well?

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:33:19 PM
Read back your comments - you want me to do your job for you as well?

::)

Ok I make this clear as you are struggling to understand this.

I made the point, particularly with reference to Clarehall, Dublin that some shopping centres have far more disabled spaces that will ever be needed.
I of course believe there should always be adequate disabled parking spaces.

You called me a knob for this and suggested I park in disabled spaces and "disrespect" disabled spaces.

You owe me an apology and are doing your very best to squirm out of this once again  ::)

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:37:14 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:33:19 PM
Read back your comments - you want me to do your job for you as well?

::)

Ok I make this clear as you are struggling to understand this.

I made the point, particularly with reference to Clarehall, Dublin that some shopping centres have far more disabled spaces that will ever be needed.
I of course believe there should always be adequate disabled parking spaces.

You called me a knob for this and suggested I park in disabled spaces and "disrespect" disabled spaces.

You owe me an apology and are doing your very best to squirm out of this once again  ::)

And you have a full census count of disabled people in any one area.  You tried to be funny it didn't work - and btw if the cap fits and all that.  ;)

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:48:39 PM

And you have a full census count of disabled people in any one area.  You tried to be funny it didn't work - and btw if the cap fits and all that.  ;)

Thats is truly pathetic.
I wasnt trying to be funny, if you have ever been to the shopping centre I was referring to, there are always rows and rows of empty disabled spaces not being used.
That was what I based my comment on, sorry if I cant be more scientific  ::)

And what about your suggestion that I park in disabled spaces? Is that what the "if the cap fits" comment was about? If so it makes no sense and you still owe an apology, otherwise you are both a liar and a coward.

* Incidentally as you have no intentions of retracting or apologizing for your claim that I park in disabled spaces I have reported you to the mods.
Not something I like to do but you are deliberately posting character damaging lies about me and refusing to admit they are untrue.

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:03:52 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 04:19:59 PM

QuoteIt's easy to see you don't have any kids. If kids have so little respect and don't know how to behave on a plane (or anywhere else), I'm not sure how hitting them is going to fix anything. Usually the sort of hyperactive, noisy disrespectful kids are the ones who's ma's beat them black and blue but wouldn't know how to be a parent if you paid them.

Not in my expereince!

Quote
On a slightly different tack if an adult was being stroppy on a plane (say through being nervous or having a few too many sherries), would you deck them as well or is it just kids?

if the adult was with me and causing a scene I'd tell them to shut up, just like I'd tell the child.

You said you'd slap the child; would you slap the adult; no because you are a bully and a coward.

I wouldn't slap the adult because they aren't my responsability and don't need taught about when their behaviour are unacceptable.
My parents hit me and I don't consider them bullies or cowards. 

Did your parent's hit you snowed under?
Do you think it done you any harm?
Do you resent them for it?

Quote
Lets say a parent is crossing a carpark ( Leave it POG  Wink ) and the child starts to misbehave. would threatening him/her with the naughty step when they get home really work? As pints say children tend to think only for the present, so what other methods of discipline would be an option at this stage?

Good question, but I note snowed under wasn't interested in answering.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 07:03:14 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:03:52 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 04:19:59 PM

QuoteIt's easy to see you don't have any kids. If kids have so little respect and don't know how to behave on a plane (or anywhere else), I'm not sure how hitting them is going to fix anything. Usually the sort of hyperactive, noisy disrespectful kids are the ones who's ma's beat them black and blue but wouldn't know how to be a parent if you paid them.

Not in my expereince!

Quote
On a slightly different tack if an adult was being stroppy on a plane (say through being nervous or having a few too many sherries), would you deck them as well or is it just kids?

if the adult was with me and causing a scene I'd tell them to shut up, just like I'd tell the child.

You said you'd slap the child; would you slap the adult; no because you are a bully and a coward.

I wouldn't slap the adult because they aren't my responsability and don't need taught about when their behaviour are unacceptable.
My parents hit me and I don't consider them bullies or cowards. 

Did your parent's hit you snowed under?
Do you think it done you any harm?
Do you resent them for it?

Quote
Lets say a parent is crossing a carpark ( Leave it POG  Wink ) and the child starts to misbehave. would threatening him/her with the naughty step when they get home really work? As pints say children tend to think only for the present, so what other methods of discipline would be an option at this stage?

Good question, but I note snowed under wasn't interested in answering.

I'm 35 everyone my age I'd say got wallopped - did it do me any harm; in the main no; do I resent them nah life's too short; I do honestly think that slapping a child is wrong and my own experiences would lead me not to impose them on my own children.  The thing is I can't even imagine how bad your child would have to be to slap them; your instinct in protection rather than punishment or pain.

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:55:59 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:48:39 PM

And you have a full census count of disabled people in any one area.  You tried to be funny it didn't work - and btw if the cap fits and all that.  ;)

Thats is truly pathetic.
I wasnt trying to be funny, if you have ever been to the shopping centre I was referring to, there are always rows and rows of empty disabled spaces not being used.
That was what I based my comment on, sorry if I cant be more scientific  ::)

And what about your suggestion that I park in disabled spaces? Is that what the "if the cap fits" comment was about? If so it makes no sense and you still owe an apology, otherwise you are both a liar and a coward.

* Incidentally as you have no intentions of retracting or apologizing for your claim that I park in disabled spaces I have reported you to the mods.
Not something I like to do but you are deliberately posting character damaging lies about me and refusing to admit they are untrue.

Knock yourself out kid.  :-*

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 07:08:13 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:55:59 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:48:39 PM

And you have a full census count of disabled people in any one area.  You tried to be funny it didn't work - and btw if the cap fits and all that.  ;)

Thats is truly pathetic.
I wasnt trying to be funny, if you have ever been to the shopping centre I was referring to, there are always rows and rows of empty disabled spaces not being used.
That was what I based my comment on, sorry if I cant be more scientific  ::)

And what about your suggestion that I park in disabled spaces? Is that what the "if the cap fits" comment was about? If so it makes no sense and you still owe an apology, otherwise you are both a liar and a coward.

* Incidentally as you have no intentions of retracting or apologizing for your claim that I park in disabled spaces I have reported you to the mods.
Not something I like to do but you are deliberately posting character damaging lies about me and refusing to admit they are untrue.

Knock yourself out kid.  :-*

Done, you told lies about me and made no attempt to even admit it wasnt true.
I wont accept lies or bullying on here from the likes of you. I dont usually call for people to be banned, but I am in this case.
Its with the mods now, you were way over the line.

You never answered the question snowedunder

QuoteLets say a parent is crossing a carpark ( Leave it POG  Wink ) and the child starts to misbehave. would threatening him/her with the naughty step when they get home really work? As pints say children tend to think only for the present, so what other methods of discipline would be an option at this stage?

Or maybe you and the children need to go home if you can't get parking at the door?

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 07:14:02 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 07:08:13 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:55:59 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:48:39 PM

And you have a full census count of disabled people in any one area.  You tried to be funny it didn't work - and btw if the cap fits and all that.  ;)

Thats is truly pathetic.
I wasnt trying to be funny, if you have ever been to the shopping centre I was referring to, there are always rows and rows of empty disabled spaces not being used.
That was what I based my comment on, sorry if I cant be more scientific  ::)

And what about your suggestion that I park in disabled spaces? Is that what the "if the cap fits" comment was about? If so it makes no sense and you still owe an apology, otherwise you are both a liar and a coward.

* Incidentally as you have no intentions of retracting or apologizing for your claim that I park in disabled spaces I have reported you to the mods.
Not something I like to do but you are deliberately posting character damaging lies about me and refusing to admit they are untrue.

Knock yourself out kid.  :-*

Done, you told lies about me and made no attempt to even admit it wasnt true.
I wont accept lies or bullying on here from the likes of you. I dont usually call for people to be banned, but I am in this case.
Its with the mods now, you were way over the line.

Quote from: Snowed Under on October 19, 2007, 07:59:09 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on October 16, 2007, 05:50:53 PM
While not commenting on the whole mother toddler space thing, one thing that gets on my nerves is the amount of disable parking spaces in some car parks.
Clare Hall for example, how many disabled people do you expect in the shop at any one time???

OMG what a knob!

Edit: Surely you ignore them anyways - seems to be the way!

There's my post and yours save the mods looking - in the context of the thread i.e. people parking in allocated spaces my post holds up.  Enjoy your wee rant  :-*

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 07:22:53 PM
[

Quote from: his holiness nb on October 16, 2007, 05:50:53 PM
While not commenting on the whole mother toddler space thing, one thing that gets on my nerves is the amount of disable parking spaces in some car parks.
Clare Hall for example, how many disabled people do you expect in the shop at any one time???

OMG what a knob!

Edit: Surely you ignore them anyways - seems to be the way!

There's my post and yours save the mods looking - in the context of the thread i.e. people parking in allocated spaces my post holds up.  Enjoy your wee rant  :-*
[/quote]

Because I think that some places have more disabled spaces than they need (I think they should always have enough) you worked it out that its ok for you to say I park in those spaces?
::)
That is truly bizarre. Good luck!

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 07:14:54 PM
You never answered the question snowedunder

QuoteLets say a parent is crossing a carpark ( Leave it POG  Wink ) and the child starts to misbehave. would threatening him/her with the naughty step when they get home really work? As pints say children tend to think only for the present, so what other methods of discipline would be an option at this stage?

Or maybe you and the children need to go home if you can't get parking at the door?

Sorry I missed this question - distracted by his holiness.  I would lift the offending child and carry them - where would be the issue?

and then what?  Walk around a supermarket with him acting up?
Or what if you couldnt carry him or had 2 or 3 other children to look after?

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 07:43:33 PM
and then what?  Walk around a supermarket with him acting up?
Or what if you couldnt carry him or had 2 or 3 other children to look after?

Well that would be stupid; I persumed you meant on the way back to the car; when you have kids you can easily judge their moods; if one wasn't in the form for going shopping he'd be left with me whilst his mum shopped or vice versa; they don't just go psycho within a car trip to the shopping centre.

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 08:00:21 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 07:43:33 PM
and then what?  Walk around a supermarket with him acting up?
Or what if you couldnt carry him or had 2 or 3 other children to look after?

Well that would be stupid; I persumed you meant on the way back to the car; when you have kids you can easily judge their moods; if one wasn't in the form for going shopping he'd be left with me whilst his mum shopped or vice versa; they don't just go psycho within a car trip to the shopping centre.

So instead of disciplining your children you work around their moods, that's how you spoil them. 
Of course they can kick up within a car trip to the shopping centre!

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 08:15:10 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 08:00:21 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 07:43:33 PM
and then what?  Walk around a supermarket with him acting up?
Or what if you couldnt carry him or had 2 or 3 other children to look after?

Well that would be stupid; I persumed you meant on the way back to the car; when you have kids you can easily judge their moods; if one wasn't in the form for going shopping he'd be left with me whilst his mum shopped or vice versa; they don't just go psycho within a car trip to the shopping centre.

So instead of disciplining your children you work around their moods, that's how you spoil them. 
Of course they can kick up within a car trip to the shopping centre!

Yeah I spoil my kids, I love them which is why I don't go round slapping them or have them slapping other kids.

And that's what's wrong with society today.

I beg to differ if more parents spent more time with their kids teaching them and spoiling them there would be no need for slapping - why can't you spoil the most precious people in your life?

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 08:45:29 PM
I beg to differ if more parents spent more time with their kids teaching them and spoiling them there would be no need for slapping - why can't you spoil the most precious people in your life?

Most parents won't slap now, or discipline for that matter because the kids spend most of the time with a babysitter. 
Spoiling is fine but there is a happy medium, giving your child everything they want isnt the best way to teach them about the world.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 09:03:37 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 08:45:29 PM
I beg to differ if more parents spent more time with their kids teaching them and spoiling them there would be no need for slapping - why can't you spoil the most precious people in your life?

Most parents won't slap now, or discipline for that matter because the kids spend most of the time with a babysitter. 
Spoiling is fine but there is a happy medium, giving your child everything they want isnt the best way to teach them about the world.

Either is slapping them if they don't conform to an adults way of thinking.

Well I disagree Snowed under. What happens when that child that's been spoilt so badly grows up and gets out into the real world? Suddenly he/she's going to meet a load of people that aren't like their parents and aren't going to judge them by their moods. Suddenly life isn't so easy for them and their not used to it.
I do believe that reward/ punishment is the best method. Just not the only one.

why argue folks

we obv all have differing methods for rearing kids. Circumstances etc will make even these ideals change in certain situations.
All told, as long as the parent takes an interest and looks after the kid(s) thats good.
Plenty of parents dont really give a fiddlers and let the kids run amok after they are born, the only part the parents play is in geting them fed and possibly sending them to school.

I am sure your passion will not be lost on whatever kids you are rearing/minding - whatever your methods or techniques !

Snowed, what ages are your kids?

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 08:45:29 PM
I beg to differ if more parents spent more time with their kids teaching them and spoiling them there would be no need for slapping - why can't you spoil the most precious people in your life?

because when you spoil them they become entitled wee feckers. a good boot up the arse  by your da never did any man any harm.

You dont love your kids any more than the next man because you spoil them.

Quote from: stew on November 14, 2007, 01:23:03 AM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 08:45:29 PM
I beg to differ if more parents spent more time with their kids teaching them and spoiling them there would be no need for slapping - why can't you spoil the most precious people in your life?

because when you spoil them they become entitled wee feckers. a good boot up the arse  by your da never did any man any harm.

You dont love your kids any more than the next man because you spoil them.

People are losing the plot with this thread;  I never said I love my kids more than the next man; unconditional love is not mesurable but there are extremes of spoiling - rewarding them for good behaviour; spending every hr your not working with them; taking them to the zoo; park or whatever at the weekend; going to cinema with them etc to me is spoiling - is that going make them wee feckers - I think not.

Same way there's levels of a clip around the ear. People here aren't taking about belting children with a black belt. Just a light clip that will let them know they have been misbehaving.

Yeah I spoil my kids, I love them which is why I don't go round slapping them or have them slapping other kids.
[/quote]

do parents who discipline their children this way not love them, or love them less?

as long as you dont slap 'wee dafties'

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 07:22:53 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 07:14:02 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 07:08:13 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on November 13, 2007, 06:55:59 PM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 06:48:39 PM

And you have a full census count of disabled people in any one area.  You tried to be funny it didn't work - and btw if the cap fits and all that.  ;)

Thats is truly pathetic.
I wasnt trying to be funny, if you have ever been to the shopping centre I was referring to, there are always rows and rows of empty disabled spaces not being used.
That was what I based my comment on, sorry if I cant be more scientific  ::)

And what about your suggestion that I park in disabled spaces? Is that what the "if the cap fits" comment was about? If so it makes no sense and you still owe an apology, otherwise you are both a liar and a coward.

* Incidentally as you have no intentions of retracting or apologizing for your claim that I park in disabled spaces I have reported you to the mods.
Not something I like to do but you are deliberately posting character damaging lies about me and refusing to admit they are untrue.

Knock yourself out kid.  :-*

Done, you told lies about me and made no attempt to even admit it wasnt true.
I wont accept lies or bullying on here from the likes of you. I dont usually call for people to be banned, but I am in this case.
Its with the mods now, you were way over the line.

Quote from: Snowed Under on October 19, 2007, 07:59:09 PM

Quote from: his holiness nb on October 16, 2007, 05:50:53 PM
While not commenting on the whole mother toddler space thing, one thing that gets on my nerves is the amount of disable parking spaces in some car parks.
Clare Hall for example, how many disabled people do you expect in the shop at any one time???

OMG what a knob!

Edit: Surely you ignore them anyways - seems to be the way!

There's my post and yours save the mods looking - in the context of the thread i.e. people parking in allocated spaces my post holds up.  Enjoy your wee rant  :-*

Just for clarification and to save and other misunderstandings whilst I think it was wrong to question the number of disabled parking spaces in a shopping centre; I did not say you parked in them; the thread at that stage was about allocated spaces my remark was flippant and in no way said you yourself parked in disabled spaces; hope that clears some confusion.

Thanks for that post Snowed Under. Hnb, I hope that suffices, and we can draw a line under this?

Isnt Diplomacy much easier than War? :D

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 14, 2007, 11:55:13 AM
Just for clarification and to save and other misunderstandings whilst I think it was wrong to question the number of disabled parking spaces in a shopping centre; I did not say you parked in them; the thread at that stage was about allocated spaces my remark was flippant and in no way said you yourself parked in disabled spaces; hope that clears some confusion.

I'm happy enough with that. You never said I parked there as fact, it was the suggestion " Surely you ignore them anyways - seems to be the way!" which I quite reasonably took exception to.

But I appreciate you clarifiication.
Lets leave it at that, apology accepted.

This thread is going the way of this exchange . . .

QuoteFour well-dressed men sitting together at a vacation resort.

Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable.

Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah?

Terry Gilliam: You're right there Obediah.

Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine?

MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

GC: A cup ' COLD tea.

EI: Without milk or sugar.

TG: OR tea!

MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.

EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness."

EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.

GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!

TG: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!

MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.

EI: Well when I say "house" it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US.

GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!

TG: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.

MP: Cardboard box?

TG: Aye.

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope . . .

What's the first thng your wife needs to do when she comes home from the battered wives hostel?

The phucking dishes if she knows what's good for her

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 14, 2007, 07:39:25 AM

Quote from: stew on November 14, 2007, 01:23:03 AM

Quote from: Snowed Under on November 13, 2007, 08:45:29 PM
I beg to differ if more parents spent more time with their kids teaching them and spoiling them there would be no need for slapping - why can't you spoil the most precious people in your life?

because when you spoil them they become entitled wee feckers. a good boot up the arse  by your da never did any man any harm.

You dont love your kids any more than the next man because you spoil them.

People are losing the plot with this thread;  I never said I love my kids more than the next man; unconditional love is not mesurable but there are extremes of spoiling - rewarding them for good behaviour; spending every hr your not working with them; taking them to the zoo; park or whatever at the weekend; going to cinema with them etc to me is spoiling - is that going make them wee feckers - I think not.

Thats not spoiling them, that is being a good parent. Spoiling them to me is giving them what they want, when they want it, spoiling them is letting them get their way and making excuses for them when they act the maggot. Spoilt children are the ways that can behave any way they want and they get to act out in front of others without penalty.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 13, 2007, 11:35:08 AM
you've a three year old who won't behave on a plane annoying all around them, you spend a hour shouting at them, telling them to sit down, be quiet, stop yapping etc - they still won't behave, what do you do?

A trick you could use if you're heading on a flight with young children is to buy some new toys,colouring books,hand held games etc (just small stuff,that they haven't had before)beforehand,and when they start to get bored produce them one at a time, this will keep them happy for a while. Flew to Australia last year (children 3 and a half and 8 mths) and Lanzarote this year and didn't have a problem.
Also the purchase of a good portable dvd player and a few dvd's would keep them intralled for a hour or two.