Cant see another thread about this..
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-must-reconsider-stance-on-national-anthem-and-flag-in-event-of-political-realignment-in-ireland-aogn-fearghail-35253249.html
Not sure where Aoghán is going with this one lads..no matter what happens as regards political realignments....why would we drop our anthem and our flag??? Bhur mbarúileacha??
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 30, 2016, 12:05:49 AM
Cant see another thread about this..
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-must-reconsider-stance-on-national-anthem-and-flag-in-event-of-political-realignment-in-ireland-aogn-fearghail-35253249.html
Not sure where Aoghán is going with this one lads..no matter what happens as regards political realignments....why would we drop our anthem and our flag??? Bhur mbarúileacha??
It would be in the context of a United Ireland
Surely the flag already accommodates the unionists .
The song would have to be half Gaeilge half bearla ....
the RTE piece on this said Amhran na bnhFiann is out of date "because people don't understand it"
Ní fhágfar faoin tíorán ná faoin tráill
And the US has just elected a tíorán FFS
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 12:58:44 AM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 30, 2016, 12:05:49 AM
Cant see another thread about this..
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-must-reconsider-stance-on-national-anthem-and-flag-in-event-of-political-realignment-in-ireland-aogn-fearghail-35253249.html
Not sure where Aoghán is going with this one lads..no matter what happens as regards political realignments....why would we drop our anthem and our flag??? Bhur mbarúileacha??
It would be in the context of a United Ireland
Surely the flag already accommodates the unionists .
That's like saying the Union Jack accommodates Irish nationalists because it's got the St. Patrick's Cross, or that the outlawed Stormont flag accommodates Irish nationalists because it integrates elements of the original Ulster flag, or that the Royal Coat of Arms accommodates Irish nationalists because it's got the harp, or that the IFA soccer jersey accommodates Irish nationalists because it's got a Celtic Cross. The reality is all these symbols connotate something else for Irish nationalists and mostly provoke, as does the Irish tri-colour for Unionists, even if it's got orange and the original intentions were good. Symbols take on new meanings often because of misappropriation and indeed the Celtic Cross is a racist symbol for many around the world given that the Ku Klux Klan adopted it for their sinister motives.
If a team with no Irish players plays in a country that isn't Ireland, it'd be a bit silly to make them stand for the national anthem of a country most of them have probably never even been to. It'd be like having baseball players in Japan stand for the Star Spangled Banner, or Cricketers in Bangladesh stand for God Save the Queen.
As for the north, if you want more people from a prod background playing Gaelic games then what harm can it do to make it more accessible by dropping a few symbols? If you could double the number of hurlers in Ulster just by making this one small change then I'd be all in favour of it. After a year or two you wouldn't even notice it's gone. What's more important, the growth of the game or making a political point for a minute before each match?
Sure why should the anthem be played before every match anyway? Save it for the big ones, at least. You can dilute its value if you over-use it.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 30, 2016, 07:22:35 AM
If a team with no Irish players plays in a country that isn't Ireland, it'd be a bit silly to make them stand for the national anthem of a country most of them have probably never even been to. It'd be like having baseball players in Japan stand for the Star Spangled Banner, or Cricketers in Bangladesh stand for God Save the Queen.
As for the north, if you want more people from a prod background playing Gaelic games then what harm can it do to make it more accessible by dropping a few symbols? If you could double the number of hurlers in Ulster just by making this one small change then I'd be all in favour of it. After a year or two you wouldn't even notice it's gone. What's more important, the growth of the game or making a political point for a minute before each match?
Sure why should the anthem be played before every match anyway? Save it for the big ones, at least. You can dilute its value if you over-use it.
Yeah spot on with last bit.
I just don't see the need for anthem at every game. It nearly seems like we are insecure about our identity and feel the need to proclaim how patriotic we are before every match, whether it's county final day or u16 shield. Just no need for it.
As for the flag, why not fly the GAA flag at every game?
This isn't to placate Protestants. Most of them don't want to have anything to do with the GAA no matter what changes.
Quote from: NetNitrate on November 30, 2016, 01:46:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2016, 12:58:44 AM
Quote from: 5 Sams on November 30, 2016, 12:05:49 AM
Cant see another thread about this..
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-must-reconsider-stance-on-national-anthem-and-flag-in-event-of-political-realignment-in-ireland-aogn-fearghail-35253249.html
Not sure where Aoghán is going with this one lads..no matter what happens as regards political realignments....why would we drop our anthem and our flag??? Bhur mbarúileacha??
It would be in the context of a United Ireland
Surely the flag already accommodates the unionists .
That's like saying the Union Jack accommodates Irish nationalists because it's got the St. Patrick's Cross, or that the outlawed Stormont flag accommodates Irish nationalists because it integrates elements of the original Ulster flag, or that the Royal Coat of Arms accommodates Irish nationalists because it's got the harp, or that the IFA soccer jersey accommodates Irish nationalists because it's got a Celtic Cross. The reality is all these symbols connotate something else for Irish nationalists and mostly provoke, as does the Irish tri-colour for Unionists, even if it's got orange and the original intentions were good. Symbols take on new meanings often because of misappropriation and indeed the Celtic Cross is a racist symbol for many around the world given that the Ku Klux Klan adopted it for their sinister motives.
Re the tricolour the history goes back to 1798 when catholics And dissenters fought together. The Act of Union brought dissenters into the tent leaving the catholics outside.
The orange in the flag is a pretty big concession to people who since 1921 have been dissing it .
And the Offaly colours are wrong as well.
I would expect unionists to catch themselves awn on this
There could be a seriously loose federation like Switzerland where there is very little day to day contact between ordinary people but interaction on a higher level to keep the machine moving. In that sort of situation symbols do not matter. One of the problems in Ireland since 1921 has always been excessive centralisation.
TheRe would need to be serious change down South..The Media are ultra partitionist. The Indo would have to be sent to a re-education camp. Fianna Fail would have to redefine itself
I don't see why the GAA are bending over backwards trying to get Protestant people playing GAA games, as Benny says 99% of them would rather die than have anything to do with GAA as the 99% of them believe we're all IRA men anyway. The way i see it is if a Protestant lad wants to play for our GAA club then he's more than welcome and he'd be treated like everyone else but that's highly unlikely.
As for the flags and anthems i believe County Final day and Inter County matches (possibly Province and All Ireland finals only) should be the only time they're played and displayed. The GAA flag at all matches is not a bad idea
There's nothing worse than a lip service scratchy vinyl recording of Amhràn Na bhFiann over a half baked loudspeaker at a cowld wet FBD or NFL game.
Also why do the eejits in the crowd insist on looing before it finishes?
Aodhgàn was talking about if/when new political arrangements occur in All Ireland.
Anyway thousands of games take place without flags or anthems every year and they're grand.
A pretty embarrassing speech from a pretty embarrassing President.
X factor-wannabe youngsters butchering the anthem is another reason for dropping the anthem.
The anthem should only be played before a final, whether it's a club final, provincial final or All-Ireland final.
This isn't the USA, I don't need to be reminded what country I live in every Sunday.
Quote from: Jinxy on November 30, 2016, 12:45:58 PM
The anthem should only be played before a final, whether it's a club final, provincial final or All-Ireland final.
This isn't the USA, I don't need to be reminded what country I live in every Sunday.
Agree completely.
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2016, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on November 30, 2016, 12:45:58 PM
The anthem should only be played before a final, whether it's a club final, provincial final or All-Ireland final.
This isn't the USA, I don't need to be reminded what country I live in every Sunday.
Agree completely.
Totally agree. No call for.it at a national league game.
Quote from: Jinxy on November 30, 2016, 12:45:58 PM
The anthem should only be played before a final, whether it's a club final, provincial final or All-Ireland final.
This isn't the USA, I don't need to be reminded what country I live in every Sunday.
is driving around suburbia not enough?
The anthem in GAA is the prelude to the action.
I think it's a nice touch.
Amhrán na bhFiann is a good tune for the situation. I suppose Black Betty would also do the job
I always wondered why they played the anthem at the end of discos before the chips.
Séantír âr sinséar fasta is a bit heavy for 2 am when you are focused on urges of the flesh.
More pandering to the unionists and educate together crew. O'Fearghail is trying to make his mark on the GAA.
If you don't like it go to rugby. It would be more up your street.
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2016, 02:39:47 PM
More pandering to the unionists and educate together crew. O'Fearghail is trying to make his mark on the GAA.
If you don't like it go to rugby. It would be more up your street.
Waheyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Fox I saw 2 Ulster Rugby hats in Armagh last Sunday. Must be those Co Down men 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
What concessions would unionists have to make, other than joining the reality based community ?
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2016, 04:51:56 PM
What concessions would unionists have to make, other than joining the reality based community ?
You've answered your own question. :D
If Irish unity does come about (which is what he is referring to) then there is a possibility that there will be a new national flag and anthem anyway. No need to worry just yet.
Quote from: GJL on December 01, 2016, 09:14:23 PM
If WhenIrish unity does come about (which is what he is referring to) then there is a possibility it's almost a certainty that there will be a new national flag and anthem anyway. No need to worry just yet.
Fixed that for you.
I've never went to a game to see the flag or hear the anthem. In fact I usually head for a cup of tea when I see the anthem about to kick in.
I don't mind the flag flying but the flags of the teams playing is the only thing needed.
The reportage of this has been dreadful . I am agnostic to AOF but he outlined a hypothetical scenario and what may need to be looked at. There has been an OTT reaction and any changes will I assume be debated fairly robustly.
A lot of faux outrage here.
There is no need to change the flag. Sunningdale for slow learners.
The new flag of the Irish Confederation will ironically have no Orange in it ( to placate the North Eastern Protestant/British)
Probably be a green flag with that red X from the Union Jack ::)
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 01, 2016, 02:53:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2016, 02:39:47 PM
More pandering to the unionists and educate together crew. O'Fearghail is trying to make his mark on the GAA.
If you don't like it go to rugby. It would be more up your street.
Waheyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Fox I saw 2 Ulster Rugby hats in Armagh last Sunday. Must be those Co Down men 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
I was on the golf course the other week and a boy had an Armagh Beanie and an Ulster Rugby driver cover.
That was Tony Fearon.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 11:06:10 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 01, 2016, 02:53:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 01, 2016, 02:39:47 PM
More pandering to the unionists and educate together crew. O'Fearghail is trying to make his mark on the GAA.
If you don't like it go to rugby. It would be more up your street.
Waheyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Fox I saw 2 Ulster Rugby hats in Armagh last Sunday. Must be those Co Down men 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
I was on the golf course the other week and a boy had an Armagh Beanie and an Ulster Rugby driver cover.
I hope you gave him a slap.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2016, 06:46:19 PM
The new flag of the Irish Confederation will ironically have no Orange in it ( to placate the North Eastern Protestant/British)
Probably be a green flag with that red X from the Union Jack ::)
How could you explain the flag situation to a foreigner? Yes, the orange is to represent Ulster Protestants . Yes they do wear orange sashes. YeS there is a song about it. No , they find the orange threatening. On the flag.
Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2016, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2016, 06:46:19 PM
The new flag of the Irish Confederation will ironically have no Orange in it ( to placate the North Eastern Protestant/British)
Probably be a green flag with that red X from the Union Jack ::)
How could you explain the flag situation to a foreigner? Yes, the orange is to represent Ulster Protestants . Yes they do wear orange sashes. YeS there is a song about it. No , they find the orange threatening. On the flag.
Protestants could say the same about us and the St Patrick's Cross on the Butcher's Apron. I'd hate to change the flag but I can see how it would be a progressive and necessary move in a United Ireland.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 01:28:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2016, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2016, 06:46:19 PM
The new flag of the Irish Confederation will ironically have no Orange in it ( to placate the North Eastern Protestant/British)
Probably be a green flag with that red X from the Union Jack ::)
How could you explain the flag situation to a foreigner? Yes, the orange is to represent Ulster Protestants . Yes they do wear orange sashes. YeS there is a song about it. No , they find the orange threatening. On the flag.
Protestants could say the same about us and the St Patrick's Cross on the Butcher's Apron. I'd hate to change the flag but I can see how it would be a progressive and necessary move in a United Ireland.
I never saw the St Patrick's cross anywhere else. I don't think people would identify with it.
I thought this stuff was all behind us after "the day we came of age as a nation" when GSTQ was played in Croker before a rugby match. ::)
I have no problem with the Flag flying, but I hate when it's disrespected. Tattered, left out in all weathers etc.
Also the anthem. I like the anthem at county finals, All Ireland and Provincial finals, but I think it loses its meaning when it is played before every league game and championship game.
Save it for important games, and let it add to the sense of occasion.
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 06, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
I thought this stuff was all behind us after "the day we came of age as a nation" when GSTQ was played in Croker before a rugby match. ::)
Coming of age, me arse. That was just a shower of Unionists and West Brit toffs standing to their own anthem.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 02:49:35 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 06, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
I thought this stuff was all behind us after "the day we came of age as a nation" when GSTQ was played in Croker before a rugby match. ::)
Coming of age, me arse. That was just a shower of Unionists and West Brit toffs standing to their own anthem.
:D ;D
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Where in the South are they officially recognised?
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Driving through the North is weird cos you closer you get to Belfast the more butchers aprons you see. Nobody in the South puts a flag outside their house unless it's for a GAA match. Killimordaly hung green and white fertiliser bags from electricity wires one year and that that was hilarious.
But no flags. Because you don't have to demonstrate your identity to anyone. You know who you are.
Unionists do not.
Joyce Carol Oates has a great quote "Homo sapiens is the species that invents symbols in which to invest passion and authority, then forgets that symbols are inventions"
Unionism is not rooted in anything. All settler societies have this problem. The Yanks worship the constitution. Joyce Carol Oates is American.
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 06, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
I thought this stuff was all behind us after "the day we came of age as a nation" when GSTQ was played in Croker before a rugby match. ::)
That was a pretty convenient line used by the free staters to absolve themselves from standing idly by.
Still shameful that Rugby was ever allowed in the door.
What troubles??
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Where in the South are they officially recognised?
Well it is the official flag and anthem of the state...
What I really like about the GAA vis a vis the occupied territories is that they are as accepted as as Irish as any other county.
Which is how it should be. It brings people from the North into conversations they would otherwise be excluded from. Between 1921 and 1959 and again between 1969 and 1990 Northern punters were forced to listen to other people defining who they were and telling them how to sit or lie down or whatever.
But they are a huge part of the GAA family .
And if you can beat Kerry or Dublin , so much the better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3G1bwD0ao0
Tyrone has a siege complex but it is not because of not being accepted as Irish. It's something else, much deeper...
Brolly can work in whatever court in Belfast under UK law but he is accepted and respected as a valid commentator.
GAA breaks down the border. Which is nonsense anyway.
Quote from: AQMP on December 06, 2016, 05:45:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
I'm intrigued to know why allegiance to a flag and anthem means someone is insecure about their identity??
Allegiance is fine, but you have to wonder about those who's be all and end all is a flag and anthem. Some people can't think beyond them.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 06:21:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Where in the South are they officially recognised?
Well it is the official flag and anthem of the state...
Yes, but where is this evident? On top a few buildings maybe.
And what happens when unification occurs and by consensus we get a new flag and anthem? Does the GAA stick with the tricolour and A na bhF?
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 07:05:24 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 06:21:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
snip for neatness
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Where in the South are they officially recognised?
Well it is the official flag and anthem of the state...
Yes, but where is this evident? On top a few buildings maybe.
Which is a few more than in the O6.
Quote from: general_lee on December 06, 2016, 08:31:09 PM
And what happens when unification occurs and by consensus we get a new flag and anthem? Does the GAA stick with the tricolour and A na bhF?
I think that's what O'Fearghail was saying, the GAA would be open minded to changing the anthem and flag when a UI comes, which is looking a lot sooner now because of Brexit. People just jumped the gun and thought he meant that the tricolour was going to be ripped down from GAA grounds around the country overnight.
Ogra, where do you want to see the Irish flag flown in the North? And does the lack of Irish flags on buildings bother you?
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 08:59:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 07:05:24 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 06:21:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
snip for neatness
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Where in the South are they officially recognised?
Well it is the official flag and anthem of the state...
Yes, but where is this evident? On top a few buildings maybe.
Which is a few more than in the O6.
Quote from: general_lee on December 06, 2016, 08:31:09 PM
And what happens when unification occurs and by consensus we get a new flag and anthem? Does the GAA stick with the tricolour and A na bhF?
I think that's what O'Fearghail was saying, the GAA would be open minded to changing the anthem and flag when a UI comes, which is looking a lot sooner now because of Brexit. People just jumped the gun and thought he meant that the tricolour was going to be ripped down from GAA grounds around the country overnight.
That's exactly my point. People put so much importance on a flag and anthem that only represent us to a certain extent. Truth be told the tricolour, while it is my national flag, represents a state which has done next to f**k all for me as an Irish citizen in the north
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 08:59:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 07:05:24 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 06:21:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
snip for neatness
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Where in the South are they officially recognised?
Well it is the official flag and anthem of the state...
Yes, but where is this evident? On top a few buildings maybe.
Which is a few more than in the O6.
Quote from: general_lee on December 06, 2016, 08:31:09 PM
And what happens when unification occurs and by consensus we get a new flag and anthem? Does the GAA stick with the tricolour and A na bhF?
I think that's what O'Fearghail was saying, the GAA would be open minded to changing the anthem and flag when a UI comes, which is looking a lot sooner now because of Brexit. People just jumped the gun and thought he meant that the tricolour was going to be ripped down from GAA grounds around the country overnight.
If we have a new State in effect with a new flag and anthem why would the GAA continue to fly an obsolete flag and play an obsolete anthem before games.
Hopefully when the day comes anthems will be reserved for Finals and rules about flags and anthems can be dropped.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
Government buildings for a start
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Where in the South are they officially recognised?
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 07:02:19 PM
Quote from: AQMP on December 06, 2016, 05:45:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
The big issue for many Northern Nationalists and the flag and anthem is that, it is only at our County Team matches and County finals if your club gets there that these expressions of our culture and identity are openly recognised. Every other aspect of life and government in the North is at best neutral, as with Ulster Rugby. But mostly life and government in the North is represented by the Ulster Banner and the fleg. Unionists if they were clever would give genuine parity to nationalist symbols and anthems as it would slow down for ever any prospect of a UI. But they just can't help themselves.
Bollix, it is not the be all and end all, but it is important in a society in which the majority (slight as it is) of your fellow citizens deny any vestiges of your ethnic identity in the symbols of the state(let).
But your identity doesn't have to be a flag/anthem. The fact that you follow your club/county gives you a local identity. You put up your bunting, wear the shirt, rig out the kids in their kit... A belonging to place, and part of a wider, all-Ireland organisation that promotes the nations sport, language, dance, music. Following GAA gives you that unique identity. I dunno about others, but I don't need a tri-colour wrapped around me or have to sing the anthem before each game to declare how Irish I am. I'm not insecure about my identity.
Anthem at county/provincial and AI finals is more than enough. And a GAA flag flying at all games is sufficient IMO. The anthem at an AI final is a special occasion. We don't need it butchered Sunday after Sunday all year round.
I'm intrigued to know why allegiance to a flag and anthem means someone is insecure about their identity??
Allegiance is fine, but you have to wonder about those who's be all and end all is a flag and anthem. Some people can't think beyond them.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 10:03:40 PM
Ogra, where do you want to see the Irish flag flown in the North? And does the lack of Irish flags on buildings bother you?
I don't mind if its flown or not, as long as the UJ doesn't fly either. 'Both flags or no flags' as Gerry Adams said around the time of the so-called Fleg Crisis. The lack of a tricolour flying doesn't really bother me but the fact that the UJ flies above Newry Courthouse occasionally does bother me when I drive past it. It's just the whole mentality of the thing, that the British culture can be represented officially but Irish culture can't be.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2016, 11:43:33 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 08:59:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 07:05:24 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 06, 2016, 06:21:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 06, 2016, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 06, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
snip for neatness
Where else in life in the north are these symbols that are part of my identity officially recognised and displayed? No where.
Where in the South are they officially recognised?
Well it is the official flag and anthem of the state...
Yes, but where is this evident? On top a few buildings maybe.
Which is a few more than in the O6.
Quote from: general_lee on December 06, 2016, 08:31:09 PM
And what happens when unification occurs and by consensus we get a new flag and anthem? Does the GAA stick with the tricolour and A na bhF?
I think that's what O'Fearghail was saying, the GAA would be open minded to changing the anthem and flag when a UI comes, which is looking a lot sooner now because of Brexit. People just jumped the gun and thought he meant that the tricolour was going to be ripped down from GAA grounds around the country overnight.
If we have a new State in effect with a new flag and anthem why would the GAA continue to fly an obsolete flag and play an obsolete anthem before games.
Hopefully when the day comes anthems will be reserved for Finals and rules about flags and anthems can be dropped.
It's the GAA, I wouldn't take it for granted that the anthem or flag would be changed quickly.
Maybe but it wouldn't be a National Anthem or a National or State flag at that stage.
Re: flag on government buildings - in the North the ruling government is the British so that's probably why a Union flag flies.
As for the Irish flag. What are people actually standing to? At the attention of the Republics government? A government that, as general lee said, didn't give a feck about him in the North?
Quote from: BennyCake on December 07, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
Re: flag on government buildings - in the North the ruling government is the British so that's probably why a Union flag flies.
As for the Irish flag. What are people actually standing to? At the attention of the Republics government? A government that, as general lee said, didn't give a feck about him in the North?
The tricolour is the Irish national flag . It also happens to be the flag of the 26 county state .
The Irish government has enough of its plate at present. It is not providing for its own citizens so the north is parked for a spell.
Quote from: ashman on December 07, 2016, 11:38:14 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 07, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
Re: flag on government buildings - in the North the ruling government is the British so that's probably why a Union flag flies.
As for the Irish flag. What are people actually standing to? At the attention of the Republics government? A government that, as general lee said, didn't give a feck about him in the North?
The tricolour is the Irish national flag . It also happens to be the flag of the 26 county state .
The Irish government has enough of its plate at present. It is not providing for its own citizens so the north is parked for a spell.
That's a long spell. 90-odd years and counting.
But it has a lot on it's plate. Dreaming up new taxes to cripple the people in order to pay the foreign banks.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 07, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
Re: flag on government buildings - in the North the ruling government is the British so that's probably why a Union flag flies.
As for the Irish flag. What are people actually standing to? At the attention of the Republics government? A government that, as general lee said, didn't give a feck about him in the North?
What should the Government in the south have done differently ?
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2016, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 06, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
I thought this stuff was all behind us after "the day we came of age as a nation" when GSTQ was played in Croker before a rugby match. ::)
That was a pretty convenient line used by the free staters to absolve themselves from standing idly by.
Still shameful that Rugby was ever allowed in the door.
What troubles??
It was a vomit inducing phrase. The triumphalism was sickening.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 07, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
Re: flag on government buildings - in the North the ruling government is the British so that's probably why a Union flag flies.
As for the Irish flag. What are people actually standing to? At the attention of the Republics government? A government that, as general lee said, didn't give a feck about him in the North?
Certainly not. I see them as one of the bad things. They don't own our island and certainly don't own the flag. They're caretakers (making a balls of) running the republic on our behalf.
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 11:55:33 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2016, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 06, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
I thought this stuff was all behind us after "the day we came of age as a nation" when GSTQ was played in Croker before a rugby match. ::)
That was a pretty convenient line used by the free staters to absolve themselves from standing idly by.
Still shameful that Rugby was ever allowed in the door.
What troubles??
It was a vomit inducing phrase. The triumphalism was sickening.
You're not wrong there. It smacked of "we forgive you for everything you've ever done to us (including the north, famine, cromwell etc)" in one afternoon. Honestly though it doesn't surprise me, i've said it before that most freestaters are a fickle bunch.
The queens visit was another one. They couldn't fawn quick enough.
Quote from: foxcommander on December 07, 2016, 03:54:59 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 11:55:33 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 06, 2016, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 06, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
I thought this stuff was all behind us after "the day we came of age as a nation" when GSTQ was played in Croker before a rugby match. ::)
That was a pretty convenient line used by the free staters to absolve themselves from standing idly by.
Still shameful that Rugby was ever allowed in the door.
What troubles??
It was a vomit inducing phrase. The triumphalism was sickening.
You're not wrong there. It smacked of "we forgive you for everything you've ever done to us (including the north, famine, cromwell etc)" in one afternoon. Honestly though it doesn't surprise me, i've said it before that most freestaters are a fickle bunch.
The queens visit was another one. They couldn't fawn quick enough.
Re: rugby anthem - you can't include all free staters in with those there in Croker that day. The majority of southerners aren't west Brit toffs or unionists.
Queens visit was cringeworthy. The establishment in the South are a bunch of spineless arselickers. Insecure, cap-in-hand types who bend over and take everything up the jacksie from Britain and the EU.
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 11:59:15 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 07, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
Re: flag on government buildings - in the North the ruling government is the British so that's probably why a Union flag flies.
As for the Irish flag. What are people actually standing to? At the attention of the Republics government? A government that, as general lee said, didn't give a feck about him in the North?
Certainly not. I see them as one of the bad things. They don't own our island and certainly don't own the flag. They're caretakers (making a balls of) running the republic on our behalf.
So I wonder then what the flag represents for people? What are they standing to?
The EU owns Ireland, until the South grow a set and tell them to get stuffed.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 07, 2016, 08:55:01 AM
'Both flags or no flags' as Gerry Adams said around the time of the so-called Fleg Crisis.
Should the GAA fly both flags?
Quote from: BennyCake on December 07, 2016, 04:42:24 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 07, 2016, 11:59:15 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 07, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
Re: flag on government buildings - in the North the ruling government is the British so that's probably why a Union flag flies.
As for the Irish flag. What are people actually standing to? At the attention of the Republics government? A government that, as general lee said, didn't give a feck about him in the North?
Certainly not. I see them as one of the bad things. They don't own our island and certainly don't own the flag. They're caretakers (making a balls of) running the republic on our behalf.
So I wonder then what the flag represents for people? What are they standing to?
The EU owns Ireland, until the South grow a set and tell them to get stuffed.
I agree but I believe it will come. The penny is starting to drop and the EU with this tax thing is finally going to make the scales fall from all eyes. We need to capitalise on any tensions between the US and Germany, sorry, the EU. This is another argument though.
Quote from: dec on December 07, 2016, 04:42:48 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 07, 2016, 08:55:01 AM
'Both flags or no flags' as Gerry Adams said around the time of the so-called Fleg Crisis.
Should the GAA fly both flags?
No, the GAA is not the state and therefore can fly whatever flag it likes as it only has to represent its membership. The state has to be neutral however.
The GAA should reinstate pitch invasions . The carry on after all Ireland finals is atrocious
Quote from: seafoid on December 07, 2016, 10:36:56 PM
The GAA should reinstate pitch invasions . The carry on after all Ireland finals is atrocious
Absolutely. McKenna knows where he can stick his ticker tape and pyrotechnics.
Quote from: seafoid on December 07, 2016, 10:36:56 PM
The GAA should reinstate pitch invasions . The carry on after all Ireland finals is atrocious
No need for pitch invasions. The next decade = joyless Dublin & Kk/tipp wins .
Maybe the flag represents the culture and ambitions of people who dream of unity, who felt left behind by Michael Collins signing a deal to cut the island in two. Maybe it is more that 3 well appointed colours
Quote from: ashman on December 07, 2016, 11:08:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 07, 2016, 10:36:56 PM
The GAA should reinstate pitch invasions . The carry on after all Ireland finals is atrocious
No need for pitch invasions. The next decade = joyless Dublin & Kk/tipp wins .
And the Déise do it and all hell breaks loose
We need a Trump-esque leader to make the GAA great again.
You can't even dance at the cross-roads anymore because of health & safety.
Bring back 21 a side and the oul point posts and the Bishop throwin in the ball.
Quote from: Jinxy on December 08, 2016, 09:08:58 AM
We need a Trump-esque leader to make the GAA great again.
You can't even dance at the cross-roads anymore because of health & safety.
Too many múinteoiri. ..
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2016, 09:34:19 AM
Bring back 21 a side and the oul point posts and the Bishop throwin in the ball.
....and kissing the Bishop's ring ??? :-[ WTF was that all about??
Quote from: 5 Sams on December 08, 2016, 09:10:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2016, 09:34:19 AM
Bring back 21 a side and the oul point posts and the Bishop throwin in the ball.
....and kissing the Bishop's ring ??? :-[ WTF was that all about??
The equivalent these days would be for a transgender to throw the ball in.
Quote from: BennyCake on December 08, 2016, 09:31:31 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on December 08, 2016, 09:10:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2016, 09:34:19 AM
Bring back 21 a side and the oul point posts and the Bishop throwin in the ball.
....and kissing the Bishop's ring ??? :-[ WTF was that all about??
The equivalent these days would be for a transgender to throw the ball in.
No comment :-X
What have you got against transgender bishops?
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 01:08:44 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 08, 2016, 09:08:58 AM
We need a Trump-esque leader to make the GAA great again.
You can't even dance at the cross-roads anymore because of health & safety.
Too many múinteoiri. ..
I'm hopeful they're changing but there's a certain generation of them who are a complete disaster.
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 09, 2016, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 08, 2016, 01:08:44 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on December 08, 2016, 09:08:58 AM
We need a Trump-esque leader to make the GAA great again.
You can't even dance at the cross-roads anymore because of health & safety.
Too many múinteoiri. ..
I'm hopeful they're changing but there's a certain generation of them who are a complete disaster.
Who was the last decent GAA uachtaran?
Maybe Peter Quinn