RTE have a programme with a sting operation with some councillors offering to help for a generous contribution.
Fair play to RTE for doing the legwork here.
The gombeen man from Monaghan is now saying he played along to trap and expose RTÉ!
Pity they didn't aim higher than councillors. If they were prepared to look hard enough it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Journalistic appetite to go after the bigger fish has been dampened by Denis O Brien backed by Fine Gael or should that be Fine Gael backed by Dennis O Brien.
Sitting independent TD's giving loads of information out but the messenger gets attacked rather than the message being investigated. Nama immediately threatened legal action against Mick Wallace, not once did they think his claims could possibly be true. Noonan refusing to answer Catherine Murphy. Kenny telling Paul Murphy to toddle off when he asked a legitimate question about the numbers paying the Irish Water bill. This govts' answer to any valid question is to try and smear the person asking the question. Claire Daly bringing up the Guarda whistleblower inaction and is promptly arrested (incorrectly) for drink driving. Investigative journalism has been bullied out the door. They are now trying to stop our TD's from raising these issues in the Dail.
Heard that ex-FG Monaghan tool on Newstalk.
Sweet Lord - if that's the sort of gobshite Monaghan people elect then we are worse than I could ever have imagined.
"I was reeling them in!", "one of dem reporters used her mobile phone while driving", etc
The thing is most of us could probably name a few lads at least that you'd think wouldn't be averse to that sort of financial lubrication. 'Doing a turn' or 'Pulling a stroke' is a time honoured facet of parish pump politics.
When I heard the headline, I immediately thought of 2 lads that I wouldn't be surprised if they were on the show :)
The line is that these boys are getting things done. If a few quid greases the wheels of democracy then everyone's a winner ;)
For every man slagging the Healy-Rae's of Irish politics, there is another saying "sure what about the money he got for the roads and the hospital".
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 07, 2015, 01:36:32 PM
The line is that these boys are getting things done. If a few quid greases the wheels of democracy then everyone's a winner ;)
For every man slagging the Healy-Rae's of Irish politics, there is another saying "sure what about the money he got for the roads and the hospital".
'Sactly. Sometimes we want our cake, and eat it too. However, getting bribes to do something for an external agency would be different again I suppose.
I always wondered why the last minute u turn in Belfast with regard to the black hacks using the new bus lanes...
It would be good to know who these lads are, too.
QuoteSome, according to Ryan, immediately rebuffed journalists, saying that informal contact in relation to planning permission would be inappropriate or illegal.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 07, 2015, 01:36:32 PM
The line is that these boys are getting things done. If a few quid greases the wheels of democracy then everyone's a winner ;)
For every man slagging the Healy-Rae's of Irish politics, there is another saying "sure what about the money he got for the roads and the hospital".
Funnily enough was down in Kilarney last summer and got talking to the lad on the jaunting car, came up about the Healy-Rae's, ( I think he was giving out about the laneways around Muckross house were to be tarmac'd and the Healy-Rea's would have got it done).
I mentioned the article about the drink driving and he wouldn't have a bad word spoken about them as he'd rang one of them and they were able to get his old mother an orthopedic bed or something in no time and those useless hoors somewhere or other were taking ages.
I asked him who lost out so that his mum could get one and got no response strangely enough.
Quote from: johnneycool on December 07, 2015, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 07, 2015, 01:36:32 PM
The line is that these boys are getting things done. If a few quid greases the wheels of democracy then everyone's a winner ;)
For every man slagging the Healy-Rae's of Irish politics, there is another saying "sure what about the money he got for the roads and the hospital".
Funnily enough was down in Kilarney last summer and got talking to the lad on the jaunting car, came up about the Healy-Rae's, ( I think he was giving out about the laneways around Muckross house were to be tarmac'd and the Healy-Rea's would have got it done).
I mentioned the article about the drink driving and he wouldn't have a bad word spoken about them as he'd rang one of them and they were able to get his old mother an orthopedic bed or something in no time and those useless hoors somewhere or other were taking ages.
I asked him who lost out so that his mum could get one and got no response strangely enough.
Irish politics in a nutshell.
Of course the politician needs to be able to phone someone, the fixer, who can get the deed done that no one in the history of mankind could have ever done. For a system like this to work, you need the completely uncooperative civil servants, who then immediately reverse their earlier decisions upon receiving a call from the local hero. And of course this can only happen if you were fully entitled to what you requested in the first place, otherwise it would be blatant corruption.
So in conclusion, you are being deliberately denied a bed, medical card, pension etc, which you are perfectly entitled to, forcing you to phone the sitting TD. He/she then phones someone who gives you what you should already have. But now you are indebted to our hero. Which is the object of the exercise from their point of view.
As johnneycool's car driver said he 'wouldn't have a bad word spoken about them'.
We need some of the decent civil servants to become whistleblowers on this sort of thing.
But then maybe that is where RTE got their info..........
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2015, 08:50:57 AM
RTE have a programme with a sting operation with some councillors offering to help for a generous contribution.
Fair play to RTE for doing the legwork here.
They could do the same programme on every occupation and easily flush out crooked people. Why do politicians deserve more spotlight than policemen, doctors, clergy, teachers etc?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 07, 2015, 01:36:32 PM
The line is that these boys are getting things done. If a few quid greases the wheels of democracy then everyone's a winner ;)
For every man slagging the Healy-Rae's of Irish politics, there is another saying "sure what about the money he got for the roads and the hospital".
Is it true that the Healy Raes were involved with the company that was awarded the contracts to do some of the roads? One of the sisters working in revenue. Have to say they had all angles covered once Bertie's dowry was awarded.
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2015, 02:23:21 PM
They could do the same programme on every occupation and easily flush out crooked people. Why do politicians deserve more spotlight than policemen, doctors, clergy, teachers etc?
I've written a few abortive replies to this. All I can come up with is to say that the idea that policemen, doctors, clergy, teachers etc get a free ride from the meeja is . . . misconceived.
Jesus it took us millions of euro in the tribunals to kind of expose them .
We have found a new way !!! The sting !!
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2015, 02:23:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2015, 08:50:57 AM
RTE have a programme with a sting operation with some councillors offering to help for a generous contribution.
Fair play to RTE for doing the legwork here.
They could do the same programme on every occupation and easily flush out crooked people. Why do politicians deserve more spotlight than policemen, doctors, clergy, teachers etc?
Easy, because they frame the laws that we live under and should come under more scrutiny than anyone else, don't like it, no problem, go do something else.
Does this programme indicate that no TDs or Senators fell for the sting?
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 07, 2015, 01:38:19 PM
I always wondered why the last minute u turn in Belfast with regard to the black hacks using the new bus lanes...
Was it not that private taxis were excluded after lobbying for inclusion due to the backlash from the cycling crowd?
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 07, 2015, 01:43:45 PM
QuoteSome, according to Ryan, immediately rebuffed journalists, saying that informal contact in relation to planning permission would be inappropriate or illegal.
It would be good to know who these lads are, too.
People whose relations work in RTE?
Quote from: armaghniac on December 07, 2015, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 07, 2015, 01:43:45 PM
QuoteSome, according to Ryan, immediately rebuffed journalists, saying that informal contact in relation to planning permission would be inappropriate or illegal.
It would be good to know who these lads are, too.
People whose relations work in RTE?
Not at all. There are plenty of politicians who wouldn't entertain this.
Whatever about the rest of them and more than likely some of them would have taken the bribe, I think McElvaney did know all along that it was a wind-up and it's evident from the shite he put to them. I mean "Are you going to pay me by the hour or the job?" and "you will have plenty of sterling with you." are clearly something you'd say in jest. Bad as they can be, pure ignorant responses like that to a total stranger are beyond the reach of a Monaghan man.
Joe Queenan on the other hand looks guilty as sin and I'd say by watching you'll appreciate the differences in approach between himself and McElvaney.
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 07, 2015, 06:19:24 PM
Does this programme indicate that no TDs or Senators fell for the sting?
A if RTE would go after the big fish. Dinny Gael are untouchable.
Quote from: trileacman on December 07, 2015, 07:19:43 PM
Whatever about the rest of them and more than likely some of them would have taken the bribe, I think McElvaney did know all along that it was a wind-up and it's evident from the shite he put to them. I mean "Are you going to pay me by the hour or the job?" and "you will have plenty of sterling with you." are clearly something you'd say in jest. Bad as they can be, pure ignorant responses like that to a total stranger are beyond the reach of a Monaghan man.
So, you're totally innocent, yet you say nothing to anyone and let RTE break the story?
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 07, 2015, 08:04:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 07, 2015, 07:19:43 PM
Whatever about the rest of them and more than likely some of them would have taken the bribe, I think McElvaney did know all along that it was a wind-up and it's evident from the shite he put to them. I mean "Are you going to pay me by the hour or the job?" and "you will have plenty of sterling with you." are clearly something you'd say in jest. Bad as they can be, pure ignorant responses like that to a total stranger are beyond the reach of a Monaghan man.
So, you're totally innocent, yet you say nothing to anyone and let RTE break the story?
Is that what he done? I'd be interested to hear his side of the story, I have seen it reported in no great detail anywhere. Maybe he is guilty but given his tone and choice of language he wouldn't appear to be tentatively taking the thing seriously.
is it any wonder that so much of the country is under water . All the flood plains that were built on . Just get the levies in . Time to bring in the Dutch . If our councilors, politicians and engineers were in Holland it'd be all under be under water
Quote from: The Insider on December 07, 2015, 09:13:37 PM
is it any wonder that so much of the country is under water . All the flood plains that were built on . Just get the levies in . Time to bring in the Dutch . If our councilors, politicians and engineers were in Holland it'd be all under be under water
It's Irish Waters new way of delivering it's service to your door. This way you can't refuse.
Quote from: trileacman on December 07, 2015, 08:58:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 07, 2015, 08:04:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 07, 2015, 07:19:43 PM
Whatever about the rest of them and more than likely some of them would have taken the bribe, I think McElvaney did know all along that it was a wind-up and it's evident from the shite he put to them. I mean "Are you going to pay me by the hour or the job?" and "you will have plenty of sterling with you." are clearly something you'd say in jest. Bad as they can be, pure ignorant responses like that to a total stranger are beyond the reach of a Monaghan man.
So, you're totally innocent, yet you say nothing to anyone and let RTE break the story?
Is that what he done? I'd be interested to hear his side of the story, I have seen it reported in no great detail anywhere. Maybe he is guilty but given his tone and choice of language he wouldn't appear to be tentatively taking the thing seriously.
Well when did you first hear him talk about it?
http://www.thejournal.ie/tds-council-severance-disciplinary-hearings-653801-Oct2012/?utm_source=shortlink (http://www.thejournal.ie/tds-council-severance-disciplinary-hearings-653801-Oct2012/?utm_source=shortlink)
If that was a trap.......well.......the spider just strangled himself with his web.
Is there anybody about that thought it doesn t work this way?
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 11:06:28 PM
Is there anybody about that thought it doesn t work this way?
Which way?
RTE exposes councillor corruption?
Or
Clever councillor exposes RTE....eh.....TBC.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 07, 2015, 01:38:19 PM
I always wondered why the last minute u turn in Belfast with regard to the black hacks using the new bus lanes...
What happened there? I have seen plenty of references to this but so far I haven't seen an sort of explanation of what happened.
Quote from: muppet on December 07, 2015, 11:17:08 PM
Quote from: moysider on December 07, 2015, 11:06:28 PM
Is there anybody about that thought it doesn t work this way?
Which way?
RTE exposes councillor corruption?
Or
Clever councillor exposes RTE....eh.....TBC.
That there are kick backs involved.
In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit. It is a conduct that is generally discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, it's a possible defense against criminal liability.
Is entrapment allowed in Ireland north or south?
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2015, 11:39:58 PM
In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit. It is a conduct that is generally discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, it's a possible defense against criminal liability.
Is entrapment allowed in Ireland north or south?
I can't answer your question.... but RTE isn't a law enforcement agency, so your scenario doesn't quite fit. I honestly don't know if that makes any difference.
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 07, 2015, 11:43:27 PM
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2015, 11:39:58 PM
In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit. It is a conduct that is generally discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, it's a possible defense against criminal liability.
Is entrapment allowed in Ireland north or south?
I can't answer your question.... but RTE isn't a law enforcement agency, so your scenario doesn't quite fit. I honestly don't know if that makes any difference.
It doesn't matter really. From what I seen no money changed hands no was there any solid commitment to break significant laws. It's illegal to be a crooked bastard on the take but on the surface it only looks like they would if given the opportunity. Don't think any of them divulged indictable info about previous bribes either.
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2015, 11:39:58 PM
In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit. It is a conduct that is generally discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, it's a possible defense against criminal liability.
Is entrapment allowed in Ireland north or south?
I believe it is not a law in the South. I think it is in the States, for example.
Broadcasting a recording without permission from the person interviewed might be problematic in the South though. I'm sure RTE felt they had a good reason to go ahead, even though it is hard to see how the councillors would have given consent.
Quote from: muppet on December 08, 2015, 12:09:45 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2015, 11:39:58 PM
In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit. It is a conduct that is generally discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, it's a possible defense against criminal liability.
Is entrapment allowed in Ireland north or south?
I believe it is not a law in the South. I think it is in the States, for example.
Broadcasting a recording without permission from the person interviewed might be problematic in the South though. I'm sure RTE felt they had a good reason to go ahead, even though it is hard to see how the councillors would have given consent.
They didn't have consent to film the care workers in Mayo and that led to convictions, did it not?
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 08, 2015, 07:15:31 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 08, 2015, 12:09:45 AM
Quote from: Orior on December 07, 2015, 11:39:58 PM
In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit. It is a conduct that is generally discouraged and thus, in many jurisdictions, it's a possible defense against criminal liability.
Is entrapment allowed in Ireland north or south?
I believe it is not a law in the South. I think it is in the States, for example.
Broadcasting a recording without permission from the person interviewed might be problematic in the South though. I'm sure RTE felt they had a good reason to go ahead, even though it is hard to see how the councillors would have given consent.
They didn't have consent to film the care workers in Mayo and that led to convictions, did it not?
You don't need consent to film or record.
Just to broadcast. I know it appears like the same thing but, for example, if you broadcast in a different jurisdiction it doesn't apply.
But to answer your question, the answer is I don't know. I am surprised there wasn't the usual attempt to get an injunction to stop the programme being broadcast. Maybe something has changed recently?
I think if it can be proven to serve the public interest, broadcasting is OK. I think
I don't know that you have to get 'permission' to broadcast, as such, but you do leave yourself open to lawsuits for defamation if you broadcast without prior permission.
I think this is what happened with that priest that RTE gaffed badly on a few years ago.
You can broadcast away, but you might get your arse sued in the aftermath, and that is where the judge will have to determine 'in the public interest'.
"Whats in it for Darkie?"
W.T.F!!
I've seen this boyo at a few different things and can say for certainty that he wasn't acting anyway and that's the way he goes on.
As TV it was brilliant. As a reflection on public office it was terrible.
Can only look forward to his defence of this that started yesterday on local radio with the "I knew all along" line.
One of the best comments on twitter after it was that Hugh McElvaney was the only honest politician on the show as he was straight and upfront that he wanted cash.
I would imagine that the RTE put the individuals on notice that they were going to broadcast the recordings and in doing so gave them the opportunity to object and take an injunction out against them, if they don't then that is an implied consent to the matters being broadcast and therefore no law is being broken.
I only stuck it on when your man from Donegal was being highlighted. While we all know that cronyism and back handed deals go on it is unreal to actually see them in action. Sleeveens of the highest order but definitely not isolated to irish politics. The old saying of power corrupts is so true and the higher you go up the food chance the bigger the corruption.
A cunning pre-election ploy by all involved. Being found to be a cute corrupt sleeveen whore guarantees you top the poll in the subsequent election. Best little country to be corrupt in.
And these folk will be asking the public to keep them in office at next election. How can you forget you own a property or a business? Administrative errors - give me a break.
Boot them out.
Politicians failed to disclose properties
Seven TDs and Senators also failed to disclose properties or businesses that should have been included in their register of interests.
When it comes to declaring a business, the size, profitability or trading status of the company does not matter.
Even if the role is unpaid, it still has to be declared until the company is legally dissolved.
Oireachtas member and former junior minister John Perry owns a residentially zoned site and house in Ballymote, Co Sligo.
When first contacted, he said he did not need to separately declare it because it is used as an overflow car park and storage building for the supermarket across the road - which is on his register of interests.
This was despite the fact that planning permission granted by Sligo County Council in 2011 specified that the property would not, and could not, be used as either a car park or commercial storage facility.
In a subsequent statement, Deputy Perry said: "As far as I am concerned this area was always considered by me as being part of the supermarket and since the council's decision in 2011 not to allow parking on this portion of ground, the area has just been left derelict and unused."
Minister of State Ann Phelan amended her 2014 statement after RTÉ contacted her about a second house she owns that was not on the register.
She said she would amend her statement and rectify this oversight.
Five politicians, including Fine Gael TD Áine Collins and Senator Mary Ann O'Brien, did not disclose directorships of companies in the register of interests.
Ms Collins said the two firms she failed to mention were the result of an administrative error and that she would correct the register.
Ms O'Brien also forgot to declare a firm, which was part of the corporate structure of the Lily O'Brien's chocolate company, which she founded.
Independent TD Noel Grealish said he should have included a glass manufacturing company even though it was in liquidation, while Fine Gael Senator Tom Sheahan said he would add a non-trading company to his register.
Fine Gael TD Tom Barry did not include three "agriculture and real estate" companies on his register for 2014 but has amended the record since being contacted by RTÉ.
Dozens of councillors also had gaps in their declarations with properties and business interests regularly missing from official documents.