The Down fans have a thread - why can we?
A fairly depressing season for Armagh. A big panel, a big backroom, little club footbal being played by county squad members, little underage success, turgid style of football at underage and especially senior level, no appreciation of the need to attack, no appreciaition of the need to address discipline, 4 more years to look forward to, little self belief in the squad/team, a stupid bloody big screen in the corner of the ground that doesn't get turned on.
What does next year hold and what do we need to do.
Quote from: LCohen on July 16, 2015, 03:27:17 PM
The Down fans have a thread - why can we?
A fairly depressing season for Armagh. A big panel, a big backroom, little club footbal being played by county squad members, little underage success, turgid style of football at underage and especially senior level, no appreciation of the need to attack, no appreciaition of the need to address discipline, 4 more years to look forward to, little self belief in the squad/team, a stupid bloody big screen in the corner of the ground that doesn't get turned on.
What does next year hold and what do we need to do.
Things... can only get better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwWfE4DAyao
Patience, I know we live in a knee-jerk reaction world but if you look at McGeeney and Kildare years 2,3 and 4 were the best years. Played some superb attacking football, got us to Division 1 and an AI semi plus some heart breaking moments. Just wait a while before you judge his tenure.
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
He has weaknesses, poor on the line and tactically inflexible. If I was an Armagh supporter would like to see him draft in Joe Kernan to be his Mickey Whelan type consultant.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
He has weaknesses, poor on the line and tactically inflexible. If I was an Armagh supporter would like to see him draft in Joe Kernan to be his Mickey Whelan type consultant.
Fairly alarming deficiencies in fairness ???
What are the things he does well?
Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2015, 05:35:51 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
He has weaknesses, poor on the line and tactically inflexible. If I was an Armagh supporter would like to see him draft in Joe Kernan to be his Mickey Whelan type consultant.
Fairly alarming deficiencies in fairness ???
What are the things he does well?
He likes to box apparently
Quote McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
In that case how did he end up as assistant coach with a Div 3 outfit? :/
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
He has weaknesses, poor on the line and tactically inflexible. If I was an Armagh supporter would like to see him draft in Joe Kernan to be his Mickey Whelan type consultant.
Not very likely. Personally I would like to see Paul Grimley perform that role.
Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2015, 05:35:51 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
He has weaknesses, poor on the line and tactically inflexible. If I was an Armagh supporter would like to see him draft in Joe Kernan to be his Mickey Whelan type consultant.
Fairly alarming deficiencies in fairness ???
What are the things he does well?
He's very good at creating a team environment and culture. Strong organisational skills, good on a technical level and a very good motivator, excellent man-manager by all accounts. Yea tactics is his weakness and I think his lack of experience at club level or even under-age is evident.
Quote from: LCohen on July 16, 2015, 03:27:17 PM
The Down fans have a thread - why can we?
A fairly depressing season for Armagh. A big panel, a big backroom, little club footbal being played by county squad members, little underage success, turgid style of football at underage and especially senior level, no appreciation of the need to attack, no appreciaition of the need to address discipline, 4 more years to look forward to, little self belief in the squad/team, a stupid bloody big screen in the corner of the ground that doesn't get turned on.
What does next year hold and what do we need to do.
Nine months into a 5 year development commitment by the county. I'm sure McGeeney will have a pretty good picture of what needs to happen next. If there was disappointment with performances and return for the work they've done among fans I can only imagine the rage it have generated in McGeeney.
The discussion on the ground seems to be mostly centred on style of play but his Kildare teams always played attractive football to a fault - you'd expect this to evolve. The biggest problem he faces with this is tradition - Armagh are a kicking county by nature and everyone wants to see that but... against the better teams with structured defences it is nigh on impossible to kick much ball effectively.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 04:07:16 PM
Patience, I know we live in a knee-jerk reaction world but if you look at McGeeney and Kildare years 2,3 and 4 were the best years. Played some superb attacking football, got us to Division 1 and an AI semi plus some heart breaking moments. Just wait a while before you judge his tenure.
Does he have as talented or as committed a panel in Armagh?
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
By whom and based on what evidence??
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 16, 2015, 08:02:05 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 04:07:16 PM
Patience, I know we live in a knee-jerk reaction world but if you look at McGeeney and Kildare years 2,3 and 4 were the best years. Played some superb attacking football, got us to Division 1 and an AI semi plus some heart breaking moments. Just wait a while before you judge his tenure.
Does he have as talented or as committed a panel in Armagh?
Missing leaders too no Johnny Doyle or Dermot Earley types
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 08:27:21 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 16, 2015, 08:02:05 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 04:07:16 PM
Patience, I know we live in a knee-jerk reaction world but if you look at McGeeney and Kildare years 2,3 and 4 were the best years. Played some superb attacking football, got us to Division 1 and an AI semi plus some heart breaking moments. Just wait a while before you judge his tenure.
Does he have as talented or as committed a panel in Armagh?
Missing leaders too no Johnny Doyle or Dermot Earley types
Will be interesting to see if there are any retirements over the winter.
Division 2 next year looks like it will be a bit of a step-up in quality from what Division 3 was this year, especially with 4 games against Ulster rivals (Tyrone, Derry, Cavan and Fermanagh)
Quote from: LCohen on July 16, 2015, 03:27:17 PM
The Down fans have a thread - why can we?
A fairly depressing season for Armagh. A big panel, a big backroom, little club footbal being played by county squad members, little underage success, turgid style of football at underage and especially senior level, no appreciation of the need to attack, no appreciaition of the need to address discipline, 4 more years to look forward to, little self belief in the squad/team, a stupid bloody big screen in the corner of the ground that doesn't get turned on.
What does next year hold and what do we need to do.
Yes what is the deal with that screen? It serves no function.
Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2015, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
By whom and based on what evidence??
Best managers of the game?
Don't get this at all. As one of the best managers of the game I would expect I excellent record of trophies/victories at club and/or county record. I cannot think of anything McGeeney has done to warrant such praise.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 04:07:16 PM
Patience, I know we live in a knee-jerk reaction world but if you look at McGeeney and Kildare years 2,3 and 4 were the best years. Played some superb attacking football, got us to Division 1 and an AI semi plus some heart breaking moments. Just wait a while before you judge his tenure.
Superb attacking football??
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
Really? By whom and on what basis?
Quote from: Throw ball on July 16, 2015, 06:34:07 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
He has weaknesses, poor on the line and tactically inflexible. If I was an Armagh supporter would like to see him draft in Joe Kernan to be his Mickey Whelan type consultant.
McGeeney needs help. Maybe Grimley is the answer if he was the architect of the kicking style in the 2014 championship. Whoever it is they need to be able to stand up to McGeeney. And whoever it is McGeeney has to be prepared to listen to them.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 06:34:33 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2015, 05:35:51 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
He has weaknesses, poor on the line and tactically inflexible. If I was an Armagh supporter would like to see him draft in Joe Kernan to be his Mickey Whelan type consultant.
Fairly alarming deficiencies in fairness ???
What are the things he does well?
He's very good at creating a team environment and culture. Strong organisational skills, good on a technical level and a very good motivator, excellent man-manager by all accounts. Yea tactics is his weakness and I think his lack of experience at club level or even under-age is evident.
As you say that technical level does not include tactics. It simply cannot. The evidence is overwhelming. That is a fairly major technical deficiency in the modern game
His motivation and man-management skills delivered a team that was incapable of making a decision on the field of play, that lacked confidence and looked totally bewildered by what they were asked to do.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 04:07:16 PM
Patience, I know we live in a knee-jerk reaction world but if you look at McGeeney and Kildare years 2,3 and 4 were the best years. Played some superb attacking football, got us to Division 1 and an AI semi plus some heart breaking moments. Just wait a while before you judge his tenure.
For which of these years was Grimley involved?
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 16, 2015, 07:02:51 PM
Quote from: LCohen on July 16, 2015, 03:27:17 PM
The Down fans have a thread - why can we?
A fairly depressing season for Armagh. A big panel, a big backroom, little club footbal being played by county squad members, little underage success, turgid style of football at underage and especially senior level, no appreciation of the need to attack, no appreciaition of the need to address discipline, 4 more years to look forward to, little self belief in the squad/team, a stupid bloody big screen in the corner of the ground that doesn't get turned on.
What does next year hold and what do we need to do.
Nine months into a 5 year development commitment by the county. I'm sure McGeeney will have a pretty good picture of what needs to happen next. If there was disappointment with performances and return for the work they've done among fans I can only imagine the rage it have generated in McGeeney.
The discussion on the ground seems to be mostly centred on style of play but his Kildare teams always played attractive football to a fault - you'd expect this to evolve. The biggest problem he faces with this is tradition - Armagh are a kicking county by nature and everyone wants to see that but... against the better teams with structured defences it is nigh on impossible to kick much ball effectively.
I take no solace in McGeeney's assumed rage. The problems go well beyond the Galway game but in that game there were simlple changes to be made. They weren't made. Whether he was in a state of rage or not is of no consequence. The important thing is he stood there arms folded and failed to identify and correct issues within his control.
A seeper standing beside our keeper when we were 5 down with 5 to go???? You wouldn't see it at primary school.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 16, 2015, 09:25:32 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 16, 2015, 04:07:16 PM
Patience, I know we live in a knee-jerk reaction world but if you look at McGeeney and Kildare years 2,3 and 4 were the best years. Played some superb attacking football, got us to Division 1 and an AI semi plus some heart breaking moments. Just wait a while before you judge his tenure.
For which of these years was Grimley involved?
1 & 2
Quote from: smelmoth on July 16, 2015, 09:17:38 PM
McGeeney needs help. Maybe Grimley is the answer if he was the architect of the kicking style in the 2014 championship. Whoever it is they need to be able to stand up to McGeeney. And whoever it is McGeeney has to be prepared to listen to them.
That's a complete myth that i've seen peddled elsewhere. Armagh hardly kicked meaningful ball against Tyrone and particularly Donegal last year - they did of course kick against the weaker teams who left space in their defence.
Quote from: smelmoth on July 16, 2015, 09:28:32 PM
I take no solace in McGeeney's assumed rage. The problems go well beyond the Galway game but in that game there were simlple changes to be made. They weren't made. Whether he was in a state of rage or not is of no consequence. The important thing is he stood there arms folded and failed to identify and correct issues within his control.
A seeper standing beside our keeper when we were 5 down with 5 to go???? You wouldn't see it at primary school.
I see this "analysis" on the county site - it really makes me scratch my head. Why is it assumed that people with the background of entire backroom teams are complete idiots when teams don't perform. Why do the enlightened also assume that there is a plethora of fundamental flaws because performances are below inflated expectancy? Getting a team to perform at the highest level - and winning matches - is fine art. Sometimes luck throws the ingredients together in the right formula quickly, sometimes it takes time.
First year of what I assume is a long term change of mindset and culture and there are "supporters" throwing the toys out. I'd expect the outsiders with an agenda to have their moment in the sun but i'd expect the Armagh men (with agendas) to hold their counsel til they've a bit of credibility.
Year 1 - good league, bad championship
Someone compared Down's year - let's see where both counties are in 12 months.
For myself was disappointed with this year
But given I am closer to 50 than 40 I am content to see where geezer takes us
For what's it's worth people may slag him off but he raises cash and is committed for the county
I have been involved in business for years and everyone who knows me knows I love the county
No one ever asked for help for the orchard
Geezer and indeed Cathal o rourke rang asking for assistance and sponsorship
They called done to office with Aidan for pictures on a wet Tuesday in January
I am happy that these guys are committed
Let's see where we get to over the next few years
Quote from: naka on July 16, 2015, 11:12:52 PM
For myself was disappointed with this year
But given I am closer to 50 than 40 I am content to see where geezer takes us
For what's it's worth people may slag him off but he raises cash and is committed for the county
I have been involved in business for years and everyone who knows me knows I love the county
No one ever asked for help for the orchard
Geezer and indeed Cathal o rourke rang asking for assistance and sponsorship
They called done to office with Aidan for pictures on a wet Tuesday in January
I am happy that these guys are committed
Let's see where we get to over the next few years
You know me Naka..and you know my views but I think McGeeney should be given time. But I think you are in the same position as us. A good manager but sparse resources. Our men in the Co Board are also 100% committed. They will keep forging ahead raising money to support our football teams just like your lads. Until we unearth another crew like 2002 or 1991 I'm afraid we have to keep plodding along. There is maybe more fundamental issues at underage level in both counties both that's for another day.
5sams
I agree
There is a lot of criticism in both counties
I know that down are fighting hard for resources and funnily enough I want to see them doing well
It's tough but I think that the guys on here who criticise need to realise the cost of running the development squads etc
A really disappointing season for all involved with Armagh, no doubt including supporters, players and management. I think most supporters realise where mistakes were made and are hopeful that changes can be made for next season (I.e. A more attacking game plan).
I think our season capitulated after 10 minutes of the Donegal match. However, in hindsight, division 3 was masking poor performances against tipp, Louth, Fermanagh and Sligo.
We have better players than Tyrone, down, Derry and a much more committed panel than Tyrone & Derry - with a few tweaks we can move on next season
Quote from: naka on July 16, 2015, 11:49:50 PM
5sams
I agree
There is a lot of criticism in both counties
I know that down are fighting hard for resources and funnily enough I want to see them doing well
It's tough but I think that the guys on here who criticise need to realise the cost of running the development squads etc
+1
The boys on here and on the Down thread criticising haven't a clue about club or county set ups and what it takes to keep them going.
Quote from: Estimator on July 16, 2015, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2015, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
By whom and based on what evidence??
Best managers of the game?
Don't get this at all. As one of the best managers of the game I would expect I excellent record of trophies/victories at club and/or county record. I cannot think of anything McGeeney has done to warrant such praise.
Me neither. The media laps up everything that he says and does with a spoon & never asks any of the hard questions. Maybe his undoubted brilliance as a player, blinds them to his short comings as a manager? What big game(s) has he ever won? What top tier team(s) has he ever beaten? What significant trophy has he ever won? How many All Ireland Finals have his teams been in?
According to my boss, I am a very good organizer and a very good motivator. Lots of people are. Doesn't mean we'd all make good inter county managers.
Quote from: regal on July 17, 2015, 12:01:04 AM
We have better players than Tyrone, down, Derry and a much more committed panel than Tyrone & Derry -
No you don't.
Quote from: Beffs on July 17, 2015, 12:07:39 AM
Quote from: Estimator on July 16, 2015, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2015, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
By whom and based on what evidence??
Best managers of the game?
Don't get this at all. As one of the best managers of the game I would expect I excellent record of trophies/victories at club and/or county record. I cannot think of anything McGeeney has done to warrant such praise.
Me neither. The media laps up everything that he says and does with a spoon & never asks any of the hard questions. Maybe his undoubted brilliance as a player, blinds them to his short comings as a manager? What big game(s) has he ever won? What top tier team(s) has he ever beaten? What significant trophy has he ever won? How many All Ireland Finals have his teams been in?
According to my boss, I am a very good organizer and a very good motivator. Lots of people are. Doesn't mean we'd all make good inter county managers.
It takes more than a good manager to win All Ireland's. Mickey proved that he was a good manager by winning 3 but now he does not have the players and is not close to winning anything. In Gaelic football you need the players. In my opinion Kildare were improved by Geezer being in charge. The jury is still out with Armagh. Is he a good manager. I do not know but if he gets Armagh to the same level he took Kildare to in the next couple of years the answer will be yes.
Food for thought. Who is the better manager. Malachi O'Rourke who has won one Ulster title in his county managerial career or James Horan who won plenty of provincials with Mayo?
Quote from: ONeill on July 17, 2015, 12:16:56 AM
Quote from: regal on July 17, 2015, 12:01:04 AM
We have better players than Tyrone, down, Derry and a much more committed panel than Tyrone & Derry -
No you don't.
Everyone has an opinion. Proving who is right is a different matter.
Quote from: ONeill on July 17, 2015, 12:16:56 AM
Quote from: regal on July 17, 2015, 12:01:04 AM
We have better players than Tyrone, down, Derry and a much more committed panel than Tyrone & Derry -
No you don't.
:D :D :D :D
This thread is some craic, although the above statement is the best of the bunch there has been a few good ones that indicate the dillsuional state of mind that you apple munchers have ATM.
Keep it up tho... its really giving me a quite a chuckle.
;)
Quote from: Throw ball on July 17, 2015, 12:24:55 AM
Quote from: Beffs on July 17, 2015, 12:07:39 AM
Quote from: Estimator on July 16, 2015, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2015, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
By whom and based on what evidence??
Best managers of the game?
Don't get this at all. As one of the best managers of the game I would expect I excellent record of trophies/victories at club and/or county record. I cannot think of anything McGeeney has done to warrant such praise.
Me neither. The media laps up everything that he says and does with a spoon & never asks any of the hard questions. Maybe his undoubted brilliance as a player, blinds them to his short comings as a manager? What big game(s) has he ever won? What top tier team(s) has he ever beaten? What significant trophy has he ever won? How many All Ireland Finals have his teams been in?
According to my boss, I am a very good organizer and a very good motivator. Lots of people are. Doesn't mean we'd all make good inter county managers.
It takes more than a good manager to win All Ireland's. Mickey proved that he was a good manager by winning 3 but now he does not have the players and is not close to winning anything. In Gaelic football you need the players. In my opinion Kildare were improved by Geezer being in charge. The jury is still out with Armagh. Is he a good manager. I do not know but if he gets Armagh to the same level he took Kildare to in the next couple of years the answer will be yes.
Food for thought. Who is the better manager. Malachi O'Rourke who has won one Ulster title in his county managerial career or James Horan who won plenty of provincials with Mayo?
That is fair enough. But to be considered one of the best managers in the game (which is what I was originally responding to,) he would have to be achieving at least what he did with Kildare and surpassing it. Other managers are judged by that kind of criteria. For some reason, McGeeney rarely is.
A lot of people saying that McGeeney needs to be given time as its his 1st year, but is this not his 2nd year? I doubt if he sat back last year and no influence. The team seem to have gone back ways since, how do Armagh people explain that?
I watched the Donegal Armagh game on TV and what I saw that day was a team that were so rigid that they hadn't a clue how to play off the cuff, and I saw a manager who was like a rabbit in the headlights, the worse it got the less he reacted.
I'm not convinced by McGeeney at all, nor was I convinced with him at Kildare. He raises money (I assume partly to pay himself?) he preaches about martial arts, I would guess he's an excellent motivator and self disciplinarian and will have the respect of the players, but is there much else? If he's tactically inept that is a serious problem.
For a man who has won nothing as a manager he possesses a massive managerial profile. I can't help thinking much of it is hype and intrigue given his mysterious character?
We need kick passers. Players are afraid to kick, instead opt to retain possession while opponents get back in numbers. Look at Donaghy last year. Long ball in, lay off to O'Donoghue, goal. It changed Kerry's season. We have no players that can kick long than 20 yards. We're too predictable ned unimaginative.
Too much made of last year's run.We beat Tyrone,Roscommon and Meath,three average teams and nearly caught an over cautious Donegal team.Cavan got to the qtr finals the year before and did nothing since.
Quote from: ONeill on July 17, 2015, 12:16:56 AM
Quote from: regal on July 17, 2015, 12:01:04 AM
We have better players than Tyrone, down, Derry and a much more committed panel than Tyrone & Derry -
No you don't.
Laughable statement. Both Tyrone and Derry have a better starting team and Derry especially have a better squad.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 17, 2015, 08:25:33 AM
Too much made of last year's run.We beat Tyrone,Roscommon and Meath,three average teams and nearly caught an over cautious Donegal team.Cavan got to the qtr finals the year before and did nothing since.
I think way too much was made of the Donegal performance in particular - Donegal were rancid that day and yet they still got the win.
It's one thing to lose to Donegal by a point when they are playing well, but when they are playing badly it's a whole different ballgame.
If the Armagh game wasn't the worst championship performance of the McGuinness era by Donegal it came damm close.
Even looking at the other three Armagh beat last year, it took Tyrone a replay to get past Down before Monaghan beat them.
Roscommon beat Leitrim lost to Mayo, before beating Cavan while Meath battered Carlow, beat Kildare and lost to the Dubs.
Overall these 3 were like the perfect definition of average/middling teams last year.
Bottom line is that last years Armagh team looked better than this years team regardless of opposition. McGeeney was there both years. Regardless of all the excuses above ye nearly beat Donegal last year and absolutely should have won, this year ye were hammered out the gate in one of the most one sided Ulster Cship games I've ever witnessed.
I thought Armagh were lucky enough last year with the draws in the back door which let them build up a it of momentum and gave Donegal a good game (whether or not Donegal played good is up to your own discretion). I thought by watching league games this year that we punched a bit above our weight last year but was genuinely expecting a small bit of progress from last year but having attended their three championship games I believe we have reversed up the road a bit, the tactics and lack of changes from the team in these three games were v disappointing.
What next for Armagh?. Dunno, but i'll certainly wait until this time next year and make a real judgement on Kieran McGeeney but this season does not fill me with optimism for next year. The excuses used was we were in Div 3 and a few key injuries so we'll see how that one pans out :-X
Quote from: DennistheMenace on July 17, 2015, 08:54:57 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 17, 2015, 12:16:56 AM
Quote from: regal on July 17, 2015, 12:01:04 AM
We have better players than Tyrone, down, Derry and a much more committed panel than Tyrone & Derry -
No you don't.
Laughable statement. Both Tyrone and Derry have a better starting team and Derry especially have a better squad.
Who was it that said that a man always thinks he has the best looking wife?
Comparing Armagh this year and last is difficult. We should remember that the team that played on Sunday had 7 changes from the team that played Donegal last year.
My main concern still is that all year the team has been less than its parts.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 17, 2015, 08:25:33 AM
Too much made of last year's run.We beat Tyrone,Roscommon and Meath,three average teams and nearly caught an over cautious Donegal team.Cavan got to the qtr finals the year before and did nothing since.
Totally agree.
My Twopence worth.
There isn't enough winners in the Armagh team. One of the big teams with Monaghan team is that the vast majority of them and backbone of the team have all tasted success at club level - Ballybay, Latton, Scotstown and Clontibret (Maghercloone in earlier years) all have players who have won county titles, league and championship. They know how to win and expect to win. They've carried this onto county level. Other players can then fit into this and grown from it.
Armagh lack this and have players who, when it comes to championship football, expect to get beat. Cross just have a strangle hold on it and too many players don't know how to win big games. When Armagh went well they have a big backbone of Cross players - McEntees, Francie, Oisin, Joe Himself at the helm.
For such a dominate club side, Cross have not as much representation on the team or in key positions. McGeeney can appear to be big into the mental side of the game and preparation but its very hard to install a ruthless winning streak into players used to been underdogs.
For a team to break into the next level they have to learn to win. To me, this happened for Monaghan when the squad was filled with players from a spread of clubs who had all came back to win county medals - namely the Latton, Scotstown and Ballybay players.
Its one theory anyway.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 17, 2015, 02:38:35 AM
We need kick passers. Players are afraid to kick, instead opt to retain possession while opponents get back in numbers. Look at Donaghy last year. Long ball in, lay off to O'Donoghue, goal. It changed Kerry's season. We have no players that can kick long than 20 yards. We're too predictable ned unimaginative.
Which is hard to figure out considering ye have the past ball kicking club team in the country.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 16, 2015, 10:57:37 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on July 16, 2015, 09:17:38 PM
McGeeney needs help. Maybe Grimley is the answer if he was the architect of the kicking style in the 2014 championship. Whoever it is they need to be able to stand up to McGeeney. And whoever it is McGeeney has to be prepared to listen to them.
That's a complete myth that i've seen peddled elsewhere. Armagh hardly kicked meaningful ball against Tyrone and particularly Donegal last year - they did of course kick against the weaker teams who left space in their defence.
Quote from: smelmoth on July 16, 2015, 09:28:32 PM
I take no solace in McGeeney's assumed rage. The problems go well beyond the Galway game but in that game there were simlple changes to be made. They weren't made. Whether he was in a state of rage or not is of no consequence. The important thing is he stood there arms folded and failed to identify and correct issues within his control.
A seeper standing beside our keeper when we were 5 down with 5 to go???? You wouldn't see it at primary school.
I see this "analysis" on the county site - it really makes me scratch my head. Why is it assumed that people with the background of entire backroom teams are complete idiots when teams don't perform. Why do the enlightened also assume that there is a plethora of fundamental flaws because performances are below inflated expectancy? Getting a team to perform at the highest level - and winning matches - is fine art. Sometimes luck throws the ingredients together in the right formula quickly, sometimes it takes time.
First year of what I assume is a long term change of mindset and culture and there are "supporters" throwing the toys out. I'd expect the outsiders with an agenda to have their moment in the sun but i'd expect the Armagh men (with agendas) to hold their counsel til they've a bit of credibility.
Year 1 - good league, bad championship
Someone compared Down's year - let's see where both counties are in 12 months.
I agree that Armagh did not play a kicking style in the quarterfinal against Donegal. I agree that Roscommon and Meath are weaker teams than Donegal but I wouldn't be discarding them as opponents.
Armagh did not perform against Wicklow. There was very little criticism of the management as all could see that it was the players and their error rate.
Against Donegal we seem to be totally surprised by Donegal's tactics. I would have expected this to have been planned for.
Against Galway we made criminal errors in our approach. The setup of the team was frankly terrible. I don't think anybody in the crowd honestly delieved that Declan McKenna drifted back to his own 20m line because he thought with 5 mins to go and 5 points down that that was the thing to do. He was was told to do it. And it is impossible to think of a sound reason why he was sent to do it. In an earlier post there was list of other examples of players being sent out to do things that go completely against the instincts of a player. Armagh do not have to play like this. It doesn't suit the majority of players. But it might be the case that a team managed by McGeeney does have to play like this.
Quote from: Beffs on July 17, 2015, 12:07:39 AM
Quote from: Estimator on July 16, 2015, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2015, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2015, 05:01:35 PM
McGeeney counted as one of the best managers of the game. Once all the pieces fall into place, then he will bring success.
By whom and based on what evidence??
Best managers of the game?
Don't get this at all. As one of the best managers of the game I would expect I excellent record of trophies/victories at club and/or county record. I cannot think of anything McGeeney has done to warrant such praise.
Me neither. The media laps up everything that he says and does with a spoon & never asks any of the hard questions. Maybe his undoubted brilliance as a player, blinds them to his short comings as a manager? What big game(s) has he ever won? What top tier team(s) has he ever beaten? What significant trophy has he ever won? How many All Ireland Finals have his teams been in?
According to my boss, I am a very good organizer and a very good motivator. Lots of people are. Doesn't mean we'd all make good inter county managers.
If he was one of the best managers in the country then someone would have risen to the challenge and answered those questions.
Quote from: Bingo on July 17, 2015, 04:12:21 PM
My Twopence worth.
There isn't enough winners in the Armagh team. One of the big teams with Monaghan team is that the vast majority of them and backbone of the team have all tasted success at club level - Ballybay, Latton, Scotstown and Clontibret (Maghercloone in earlier years) all have players who have won county titles, league and championship. They know how to win and expect to win. They've carried this onto county level. Other players can then fit into this and grown from it.
Armagh lack this and have players who, when it comes to championship football, expect to get beat. Cross just have a strangle hold on it and too many players don't know how to win big games. When Armagh went well they have a big backbone of Cross players - McEntees, Francie, Oisin, Joe Himself at the helm.
For such a dominate club side, Cross have not as much representation on the team or in key positions. McGeeney can appear to be big into the mental side of the game and preparation but its very hard to install a ruthless winning streak into players used to been underdogs.
For a team to break into the next level they have to learn to win. To me, this happened for Monaghan when the squad was filled with players from a spread of clubs who had all came back to win county medals - namely the Latton, Scotstown and Ballybay players.
Its one theory anyway.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 17, 2015, 02:38:35 AM
We need kick passers. Players are afraid to kick, instead opt to retain possession while opponents get back in numbers. Look at Donaghy last year. Long ball in, lay off to O'Donoghue, goal. It changed Kerry's season. We have no players that can kick long than 20 yards. We're too predictable ned unimaginative.
Which is hard to figure out considering ye have the past ball kicking club team in the country.
A good point Bingo, in addition to the turgid state of the club championship & possible knock on effects, Armagh can at times can appear to be in competition / opposition with Cross tbh
Therefore would it not make good sense and be in the best interest of the county that the manager comes from Cross? It worked out ok the last time ye took that approach
I think picking someone as manager simply because of where they are from is a recipe for disaster.
That said, being from Crossmaglen is not Tony McEntee's sole credential.
Not so long along we got a County Chairman and Board hell bent in getting Paul Grimley involved due a conviction (probably correct) that he was snubbed for non-footballing reasons by a previous county board. Pretty much the same crew saw their crowning glories as getting McGeeney involved and then making him the top man. That plus the 5 year commitment that the county board has given Kieran mean there is zero chance of a change in Armagh anytime soon.
There is a decent set of players in Armagh. Decent if your aspirations extend to the last 8 and maybe the occasional All Ireland semi-final. There will only be so long that fans will accept under-performance below those sort of levels. Next year and Division 2 will tell a tale. The patience of the fans is not helped by the style of play. Really there is nothing of interest in the Armagh performances other than the results. Therefore they have to deliver on that benchmark
Kildare were in Division 2 most for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Kildare were in Division 2 for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.
Will that same team not be in division 3 next year?
Quote from: Throw ball on July 17, 2015, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Kildare were in Division 2 for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.
Will that same team not be in division 3 next year?
Ye are discussing the future and Division 2. Divison 3 is irrelevant now.
Quote from: Throw ball on July 17, 2015, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Kildare were in Division 2 for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.
Will that same team not be in division 3 next year?
Kildare are reaping the benefits of employing an outside manager who did not develop their forward game, ran roughshod over the club game and the ripped their finances apart and then replaced him with another outside manager who cannot organise a defence.
Jason Ryan didn't have Johnny Doyle or Earley, 2 real Leaders under McGeeney.
Kildare tend to go for the outside men though
Reading this thread you'd think Armagh GAA had been rubbed out and needed drawn again.
I for one am disappointed at how this season finished but to suggest that Armagh football is in disarray is somewhat off the mark. Can also laugh at all the tyronies coming on mouthing, I will not be one bit surprised if tipp give youse a doing later on ;)
I dunno why people question McGeeney, for a man who who had no experience to do what he did in Kildare ain't too bad, I mind being in CP for a qtr final v Donegal (2011? Cassidy scored that point) and thinking how jealous I was as you could sense the real excitement and belief in the Kildare fans. He turned them into a genuine force that teams generally did not want to meet. And for those who say he bankrupted Kildare GAA, have a fcukin word with yourself he wasn't the treasurer ::)
In terms of next year I think on the personnel front McGeeney has one simple task - ensure no further retirements and I have McKeever in mind here. If he could persuade AK to come back that would be immense as the team is lacking leaders as someone has said and Aaron still has plenty to offer. Get Dyas fit and there's three big players already.
This team will run through walls for geezer (bar maybe one person) which is arguably one of the hardest attributes to find in a manager these days. I'll be watching next year with interest to see how the team progresses, I genuinely think we have the players to mount a proper challenge, the task is getting them (the forwards in particular) firing on all cylinders. A proper kick out strategy needs implemented also if he intends on pursuing with the same system.
Quote from: Throw ball on July 17, 2015, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Kildare were in Division 2 for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.
Will that same team not be in division 3 next year?
Not really. Very few of McGeeney's team are left at this stage.
Kildare team who played v Donegal in 2011 quarter final:
Connolly (opted off 2015 panel)
McLoughlin (retired)
Foley (opted off 2015 panel)
McGrillen (opted off 2015 panel)
Flanagan (retired)
M O'Flaherty (opted off 2014 panel and did not return for 2015)
Bolton (still starting)
Doyle (retired)
Flynn (hasn't played in two years)
O'Neill (still starting)
E O'Flaherty (still starting)
Callaghan (still starting)
Kelly (gone from panel, part of s&c team now)
O'Connor (gone to America for the summer)
Kavanagh (retired)
Only 4 of that Kildare team are still involved 4 years later.
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 10:34:27 PM
Jason Ryan didn't have Johnny Doyle or Earley, 2 real Leaders under McGeeney.
Kildare tend to go for the outside men though
Dermot Earley Jr. was (very sadly) little more than window dressing since 2010, so for at least four and a bit seasons of McGeeney's reign one of those two wasn't a feature at all.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 18, 2015, 12:31:22 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on July 17, 2015, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Kildare were in Division 2 for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.
Will that same team not be in division 3 next year?
Not really. Very few of McGeeney's team are left at this stage.
Kildare team who played v Donegal in 2011 quarter final:
Connolly (opted off 2015 panel)
McLoughlin (retired)
Foley (opted off 2015 panel)
McGrillen (opted off 2015 panel)
Flanagan (retired)
M O'Flaherty (opted off 2014 panel and did not return for 2015)
Bolton (still starting)
Doyle (retired)
Flynn (hasn't played in two years)
O'Neill (still starting)
E O'Flaherty (still starting)
Callaghan (still starting)
Kelly (gone from panel, part of s&c team now)
O'Connor (gone to America for the summer)
Kavanagh (retired)
Only 4 of that Kildare team are still involved 4 years later.
Great research there Hollow! That's a huge change in personnel. How would the current crop compare in terms of talent? I assume there are no Johnny Doyles out there, but surely a county like Kildare will have some talented young players coming through???
Quote from: CD on July 18, 2015, 02:25:17 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 18, 2015, 12:31:22 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on July 17, 2015, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Kildare were in Division 2 for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.
Will that same team not be in division 3 next year?
Not really. Very few of McGeeney's team are left at this stage.
Kildare team who played v Donegal in 2011 quarter final:
Connolly (opted off 2015 panel)
McLoughlin (retired)
Foley (opted off 2015 panel)
McGrillen (opted off 2015 panel)
Flanagan (retired)
M O'Flaherty (opted off 2014 panel and did not return for 2015)
Bolton (still starting)
Doyle (retired)
Flynn (hasn't played in two years)
O'Neill (still starting)
E O'Flaherty (still starting)
Callaghan (still starting)
Kelly (gone from panel, part of s&c team now)
O'Connor (gone to America for the summer)
Kavanagh (retired)
Only 4 of that Kildare team are still involved 4 years later.
Great research there Hollow! That's a huge change in personnel. How would the current crop compare in terms of talent? I assume there are no Johnny Doyles out there, but surely a county like Kildare will have some talented young players coming through???
Ask me next weekend!
Quote from: general_lee on July 18, 2015, 12:06:57 PM
Reading this thread you'd think Armagh GAA had been rubbed out and needed drawn again.
I for one am disappointed at how this season finished but to suggest that Armagh football is in disarray is somewhat off the mark.
I think that is an over-reaction. I have read no mention of disarray or needing a redraw.
Quote from: general_lee on July 18, 2015, 12:06:57 PM
I dunno why people question McGeeney, for a man who who had no experience to do what he did in Kildare ain't too bad
There is zero logic in this. A manager is judged on his results/performances especially in the key games. The excuse of "he is inexperienced and must be tolerated on that basis" doesn't cut it. And it doesn't apply now as he is an experienced manager now.
Quote from: general_lee on July 18, 2015, 12:06:57 PM
He turned them into a genuine force that teams generally did not want to meet.
What were the results like in big games? Games against the top 8 or 10. Knock out gamnes in Croke Park? Honest question. If the results were good - lets call them good. If there were middling - lets call them middling. If they were poor lets call them poor. Let the answer be honest also.
Quote from: general_lee on July 18, 2015, 12:06:57 PM
And for those who say he bankrupted Kildare GAA, have a fcukin word with yourself he wasn't the treasurer ::)
This is the old David O'Leary and Harry Redknapp excuse. There is no doubt that officials in Kildare sanctioned the expenditures and must shoulder blame. But a manager that arives with a programme that requires funding that just isnt there is not excused responsibility. Don't give the old smokescreen about how much money McGeeney brings in.
Quote from: general_lee on July 18, 2015, 12:06:57 PM
In terms of next year I think on the personnel front McGeeney has one simple task - ensure no further retirements and I have McKeever in mind here. If he could persuade AK to come back that would be immense as the team is lacking leaders as someone has said and Aaron still has plenty to offer. Get Dyas fit and there's three big players already.
Would agree with this. Moriarty might retire and AK is unlikely to return
Quote from: general_lee on July 18, 2015, 12:06:57 PM
This team will run through walls for geezer (bar maybe one person) which is arguably one of the hardest attributes to find in a manager these days.
We heard this phrase last year. What does it mean? How has it worked ouut this year?
If it means players programmed for one tactic and not equiped to left their heads, see what is in front of them, think and execute then frankly we have had enough of that already.
If it menas players not prepared to cede one inch physically even if that means ineffective tackling, poor discipline and senselessly getting on the wrong side of referees then we have enough of that also.
Quote from: general_lee on July 18, 2015, 12:06:57 PMI'll be watching next year with interest to see how the team progresses, I genuinely think we have the players to mount a proper challenge, the task is getting them (the forwards in particular) firing on all cylinders. A proper kick out strategy needs implemented also if he intends on pursuing with the same system.
Would agree with that but tell me how well equiped is the current managerial team to sort this out. Will they player enough forwards and play them fare enough up the pitch? Does it really take more than a season to get a kick out stratgey working? Will they continue to not mark on the opposition kick outs?
@smelmoth: Can't be bothered utilising the quote function but to address your points:
1. Look at the first post. Also look at the name of the thread. Maybe it is named incorrectly and should mean "senior county team" and not "GAA in Armagh".
2. I agree. I am not saying he is inexperienced. Someone did earlier in the thread question whether he had ever cut his teeth at club level. Overall I think he did well with Kildare and there are plenty in that county would concur.
3. He took, for all intents and purposes, a distinctively mediocre team and made them a viable force. Levels that they haven't exceeded since. Do you disagree with those facts?
4. Yes it is. That's like saying a greedy developer isn't at fault when he takes a gamble buying land that never gets zoned for housing.
5. Moriarty a loss in terms of experience, Agree AK not likely to come back but we can dream.
6. You'd really need to ask brooky or someone. I think it means that they buy into what he is selling, they have his respect etc etc... I don't disagree that the team needs worked on but it is positive none the less that there are no ego clashes or walkouts etc.
7. Agree with everything you say. If this time next year these points aren't addressed I'll be the first man calling for McGeeney to quit.
It's been said a few times that players would run through brick walls for McGeeney. Sorry, but where was the evidence for this on the pitch this year? If that was the case the proof would be in the intensity, closing down, swarming, hard hits etc. I didn't see too much of any of this from the Armagh team this year.
Quote from: general_lee on July 19, 2015, 04:11:29 PM
@smelmoth: Can't be bothered utilising the quote function but to address your points:
1. Look at the first post. Also look at the name of the thread. Maybe it is named incorrectly and should mean "senior county team" and not "GAA in Armagh".
2. I agree. I am not saying he is inexperienced. Someone did earlier in the thread question whether he had ever cut his teeth at club level. Overall I think he did well with Kildare and there are plenty in that county would concur.
3. He took, for all intents and purposes, a distinctively mediocre team and made them a viable force. Levels that they haven't exceeded since. Do you disagree with those facts?
4. Yes it is. That's like saying a greedy developer isn't at fault when he takes a gamble buying land that never gets zoned for housing.
5. Moriarty a loss in terms of experience, Agree AK not likely to come back but we can dream.
6. You'd really need to ask brooky or someone. I think it means that they buy into what he is selling, they have his respect etc etc... I don't disagree that the team needs worked on but it is positive none the less that there are no ego clashes or walkouts etc.
7. Agree with everything you say. If this time next year these points aren't addressed I'll be the first man calling for McGeeney to quit.
Point 3. You are correct in that he brought them to levels that they have been to since. How much of that is due to the legacy he left in terms of player development and especially forwards is an inponderable. Did he take to the level of viable force? Open to discussion but the weight of evidence must surely be in support of the No side of that discussion. Again what scalps did they take?
Point 4. Its lala land to think a manager can front up with runaway spending plans and not take any of the responsibility for the crippling legacy that this spending left behind.
Point 6 really baffles me. You use the phrase "this team will run through walls for Geezer". I ask you what you meant by this phrase and you refer me to Cieran McKeever for an answer!! Are you Ciaran McKeever? Otherwise it doesn't make sense.
Point 6 is a joke. No player from Crossmaglen will run through walls for Kieran McGeeney. If you speak to Cross people they will tell you McGeeney is not a good manager.
Quote from: smelmoth on July 19, 2015, 05:59:20 PM
Quote from: general_lee on July 19, 2015, 04:11:29 PM
@smelmoth: Can't be bothered utilising the quote function but to address your points:
1. Look at the first post. Also look at the name of the thread. Maybe it is named incorrectly and should mean "senior county team" and not "GAA in Armagh".
2. I agree. I am not saying he is inexperienced. Someone did earlier in the thread question whether he had ever cut his teeth at club level. Overall I think he did well with Kildare and there are plenty in that county would concur.
3. He took, for all intents and purposes, a distinctively mediocre team and made them a viable force. Levels that they haven't exceeded since. Do you disagree with those facts?
4. Yes it is. That's like saying a greedy developer isn't at fault when he takes a gamble buying land that never gets zoned for housing.
5. Moriarty a loss in terms of experience, Agree AK not likely to come back but we can dream.
6. You'd really need to ask brooky or someone. I think it means that they buy into what he is selling, they have his respect etc etc... I don't disagree that the team needs worked on but it is positive none the less that there are no ego clashes or walkouts etc.
7. Agree with everything you say. If this time next year these points aren't addressed I'll be the first man calling for McGeeney to quit.
Point 3. You are correct in that he brought them to levels that they have been to since. How much of that is due to the legacy he left in terms of player development and especially forwards is an inponderable. Did he take to the level of viable force? Open to discussion but the weight of evidence must surely be in support of the No side of that discussion. Again what scalps did they take?
Point 4. Its lala land to think a manager can front up with runaway spending plans and not take any of the responsibility for the crippling legacy that this spending left behind.
Point 6 really baffles me. You use the phrase "this team will run through walls for Geezer". I ask you what you meant by this phrase and you refer me to Cieran McKeever for an answer!! Are you Ciaran McKeever? Otherwise it doesn't make sense.
Scalps or no scalps he did well with Kildare. His legacy can't be helped by the fact that a rake of players including Doyle and Early retired.
Mismanagement of finances isn't McGeeney or any other coaches concern I'm afraid. He may be an expensive man to have around but it's not him that is in charge of the purse strings.
Run through walls can mean anything. I tell you to ask McKeever cos he's the one said it! If players come out and say something like that it means they have full faith in the manager. That's promising given it's his first year (proper) in charge. That is why I brought it up. Maybe the strict adherence to the game plan is testament to that?
Quote from: under the bar on July 19, 2015, 06:13:34 PM
Point 6 is a joke. No player from Crossmaglen will run through walls for Kieran McGeeney. If you speak to Cross people they will tell you McGeeney is not a good manager.
Well our boy isn't just as well we have 46 other clubs to consult with.
Quote from: general_lee on July 19, 2015, 07:09:15 PM
Scalps or no scalps he did well with Kildare. His legacy can't be helped by the fact that a rake of players including Doyle and Early retired.
How can you say that scalps or no scalps, he still did well? I don't get that at all.
Surely the very definition of doing well, is beating the big teams, on the big, knockout days in Croker, no? He never did that, so how can he still be called successful?
Did he do well against very poor opposition in Leinster? Yes, he did. Did he do well against Div 2-4 counties in the qualifiers? Yes, he did. But I doubt if most people would judge that as being successful over all? They certainly wouldn't in Mayo, Donegal, Dublin, Kerry etc.
Quote from: Throw ball on July 17, 2015, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 17, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Kildare were in Division 2 for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.
Will that same team not be in division 3 next year?
Aye but its hard to recall a performance like tonight's from the McGeeney era
You can have the best manager in the world, if he doesn't have the players he is never going to get results. I think Geezer needs to be given some time to develop the team and the setup. Kildare were no world beaters under Micko who had better and younger resources.
Lets see what happens in Div 2 and beyond. I would agree that we need some more Cross players in but if they are not buying into the County team what do you do?
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 04, 2015, 01:17:52 PM
You can have the best manager in the world, if he doesn't have the players he is never going to get results. I think Geezer needs to be given some time to develop the team and the setup. Kildare were no world beaters under Micko who had better and younger resources.
Lets see what happens in Div 2 and beyond. I agree that we need some more Cross players in but if they are not buying into the County team what do you do?
if only it was that easy. If the rest of them don't buy into it, f**k them. In any case other than AK and maybe K Carragher I dunno who else you're on about - I want the best players in the county playing for Armagh regardless of who their club is. Nippy Swift for one should be asked back. Hopefully McGeeney takes in plenty of club action in the forthcoming weeks and maybe spots a few diamonds in the rough.
Quote from: general_lee on August 04, 2015, 01:42:14 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 04, 2015, 01:17:52 PM
You can have the best manager in the world, if he doesn't have the players he is never going to get results. I think Geezer needs to be given some time to develop the team and the setup. Kildare were no world beaters under Micko who had better and younger resources.
Lets see what happens in Div 2 and beyond. I agree that we need some more Cross players in but if they are not buying into the County team what do you do?
if only it was that easy. If the rest of them don't buy into it, f**k them. In any case other than AK and maybe K Carragher I dunno who else you're on about - I want the best players in the county playing for Armagh regardless of who their club is. Nippy Swift for one should be asked back. Hopefully McGeeney takes in plenty of club action in the forthcoming weeks and maybe spots a few diamonds in the rough.
Cross players have a swagger absent from most other clubs in Armagh, they might not be better players, but they KNOW they are. They would bring a winning mentality. But I would concur that if they don't buy into it then there's not much can be done. But the rest of the county also needs to get over their chip about Cross.