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The status quo of Mayo, Donegal , Dubs and Kerry has been going for a few years.
Which county is most likely to break into the elite ?

I saw an article by Martin Carney where he suggested

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2015/0128/676299-column-who-can-gatecrash-the-established-order/
"Most see the race for Sam Maguire as being a contest between Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Donegal, Cork and Tyrone."

I wouldn't include Throne in that. Would Monaghan or Armagh not be a better prospect  ? 

Monaghan yes, Armagh not a chance.

What is this 'top 4' you speak of? Does anyone care? Do you qualify for the Champions League?

It seems an arbitrary number, as it can't even be linked to semi finalists as potentially 'top 4' teams could be knocked out by other 'top 4' teams on the way.

If it's a ranking of the top teams in the country, a lá NCAA polls in the states, does it really matter? What difference does it make if you are deemed in the 'top 4'.

I think the categories are 'chance to win an All Ireland', 'chance to win a Provincial', 'Making up the numbers' or perhaps the NFL divisions. This sounds like (and is probably designed to sound like) the equivalent 'top 4' in England, except that has a direct and beneficial consequence if you make it in.

Apologies seafoid, I thought your headline came from Carney's article. It looks like in this I am more aligned with Carney (gulp) where he calls the elite as the teams that can seriously hope for an All Ireland. (I'd include Cork in that list myself).

Tyrone have as good a chance as any given their underage success, but as mentioned there is no top 4.  There are 6 or 7 teams that could potentially win the All Ireland, you are basically looking at the mainstay division 1 teams

There is absolutely a top 4, and they've been head and shoulders above the rest for 2 or 3 years and the only teams IMO capable of winning an All Ireland in that time. While there was potential for them to be caught on an off day by another team, no other team was capable of going all the way to win Sam.

It was as clear as ever that 2014 was a 4 horse race to win Sam. So I think Seafoid's question is valid as to who is the most likely to join them as potential All Ireland winners. The likes of Cork, Monaghan, Tyrone, Armagh were not at the required standard to be All Ireland challengers last year and will need to step up this year if they want to be contenders.

Tyro....

Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

Roscommon. We're heading into the start of a golden era for the Rossies , could possibly win the next four Connacht championships and maybe even an all Ireland to top it off.

Players like the murtaghs, smiths, Donne shine Sennan Kilbride are some of the most underrated in the land mainly because theyve not had high profile games at senior level yet but this year will see them enter this stage with great gusto .

Can't say I'm going to enjoy it or enjoy listening to the shower of horrible fookers but they will deserve it when it arrives they have put a lot of effort in over the last decade at under age upwards.

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

I have a feeling they will be sorely disappointed. I wouldn't have them top 8.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 12:17:18 PM
Apologies seafoid, I thought your headline came from Carney's article. It looks like in this I am more aligned with Carney (gulp) where he calls the elite as the teams that can seriously hope for an All Ireland. (I'd include Cork in that list myself).

I thought it was an interesting article, AZ.
Mayo broke into the top 4 in 2011 with the semi final. They were losing to Longford the year before.
I can't see any new team winning the all Ireland this year but maybe one of the top 4 will be displaced.
Maybe Donegal have done as much as they could.
Mayo can't keep going forever without winning either. If they had won Sam they'd have faded back into the pack by now, I think.

And it is an iterative process- semifinal can lead to final appearance and then all Ireland win but it takes a while if you are not Kerry. The Dubs and Donegal served their time.
Monaghan were disappointing last year. I thought they would kick on. Armagh had a good run in the QFs too

I think neither Meath nor les Flourbags are  going to do it and it's too early for Ros/Cavan etc 
Galway need more time too.

But as Carney said
"It's a county that can dredge a maximum from its talent pool when the sniff of success emerges" ;)

 

It's more the 'top 4' nomenclature I was taking issue with. As I said, I think there are distinct categories, and what the article is referring to is breaking into the top category. Whether that number is 2, 4 or 8, the principle remains the same.

I was railing against the wrong thing entirely. I thought Carney was trying to bring a 'top 4' type discussion as if that was some sort of prize to be aimed for, like top 4 in the premier league.

Quote from: nrico2006 on February 12, 2015, 12:35:09 PM
Tyrone have as good a chance as any given their underage success

Minor level? I think it's 2006 since Tyrone won Ulster U21 title

Quote from: Blowitupref on February 12, 2015, 03:44:50 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on February 12, 2015, 12:35:09 PM
Tyrone have as good a chance as any given their underage success

Minor level? I think it's 2006 since Tyrone won Ulster U21 title

But there is obviously still a lot of talent in the county if they have won 2 All Minor All Irelands since then and been in another final.

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

Mcgeeney the best manager?

The obvious answer is Cork. It should be a  "top 5".

After that for me it will be Galway.

A few years ago I would have had Kildare as bankers but for some reason they have fallen back alot .

Quote from: mjg on February 12, 2015, 04:10:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

Mcgeeney the best manager?

Apparently so. Transferred Jamie Clarke into a bull of a half-back.

I'd add Cork and Monaghan. Monaghan could make real waves in this years championship. Galway could give Connacht a good old rattle the year

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

We have a lot of potential. We have proved very little though. Mainly a young team and if it doesn't happen for us this year the only first teamer we are likely to lose in the coming 2 years is McKeever - a player whos best years are already behind him. Armagh are a decent bet over the next 2-3 years. But all to prove

I think Mayo will slide out of the top 4 this year. :-[

I'm just happy that Armagh are being mentioned again in these kind of threads. I hope we can build on last year but realistically we have a very tough opener so I wouldn't be putting us down for the semi's just yet. However, we will be dangerous opponents for anyone.

Quote from: LCohen on February 12, 2015, 07:20:52 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

We have a lot of potential. We have proved very little though. Mainly a young team and if it doesn't happen for us this year the only first teamer we are likely to lose in the coming 2 years is McKeever - a player whos best years are already behind him. Armagh are a decent bet over the next 2-3 years. But all to prove

Do they really have the best manager though? There are a lot of things he will instill which will benefit yes but watching kildare under him i was always a bit dubious about his gameplans. He is too defensive in my view. Yes donegal are defensive but they break at a fast pace to counteract this. I don't know if i can see mcgeeney doing that.

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2015, 08:21:58 PM

Quote from: LCohen on February 12, 2015, 07:20:52 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

We have a lot of potential. We have proved very little though. Mainly a young team and if it doesn't happen for us this year the only first teamer we are likely to lose in the coming 2 years is McKeever - a player whos best years are already behind him. Armagh are a decent bet over the next 2-3 years. But all to prove

Do they really have the best manager though? There are a lot of things he will instill which will benefit yes but watching kildare under him i was always a bit dubious about his gameplans. He is too defensive in my view. Yes donegal are defensive but they break at a fast pace to counteract this. I don't know if i can see mcgeeney doing that.

In the heat of battle, tactical nous has been somewhat missing in the past.
In Division 3, managerial expertise may flatter to deceive. There's a long way from January/Feb promise to August reality when the big guns are playing for winner takes all, no second chances!

Quote from: Bensars on February 12, 2015, 08:45:25 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2015, 08:21:58 PM

Quote from: LCohen on February 12, 2015, 07:20:52 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

We have a lot of potential. We have proved very little though. Mainly a young team and if it doesn't happen for us this year the only first teamer we are likely to lose in the coming 2 years is McKeever - a player whos best years are already behind him. Armagh are a decent bet over the next 2-3 years. But all to prove

Do they really have the best manager though? There are a lot of things he will instill which will benefit yes but watching kildare under him i was always a bit dubious about his gameplans. He is too defensive in my view. Yes donegal are defensive but they break at a fast pace to counteract this. I don't know if i can see mcgeeney doing that.

In the heat of battle, tactical nous has been somewhat missing in the past.
In Division 3, managerial expertise may flatter to deceive. There's a long way from January/Feb promise to August reality when the big guns are playing for winner takes all, no second chances!

he knows how to get boys fit, working hard, defensively organised etc. Has never proven he can set up an attack. In Armagh he has a player waiting in the wings in Andrew Murnin who offers him a big full forward option. That might make his life a bit easier

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2015, 08:21:58 PM

Quote from: LCohen on February 12, 2015, 07:20:52 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

We have a lot of potential. We have proved very little though. Mainly a young team and if it doesn't happen for us this year the only first teamer we are likely to lose in the coming 2 years is McKeever - a player whos best years are already behind him. Armagh are a decent bet over the next 2-3 years. But all to prove

Do they really have the best manager though? There are a lot of things he will instill which will benefit yes but watching kildare under him i was always a bit dubious about his gameplans. He is too defensive in my view. Yes donegal are defensive but they break at a fast pace to counteract this. I don't know if i can see mcgeeney doing that.

Davy fitz learnt a lot with the Deise and then did the biz with Clare.
McGeeney is smart.   If he has learnt enough he could do a good bit with Armagh.

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 12, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Armagh have the best manager, are on an upward curve and will expect a top 4 slot this year. They are the mostl likely bet.

I doubt it. Tough Ulster draw and down on a number of last years starters due to retirements and others leaving the panel.

Interesting discussion however meaningless.

Armagh have potential like many counties. McGeeney will get them to a level that will make them competitive. To go further they need luck and a extra bit of nous. Hopefully his back room team has a bit of this. Like others I am looking forward to see how Murnin will perform at inter county.

As for others. I feel Tyrone have something missing and it may not be until Harte hands over the reins that they gain a freshness to get going again. Maybe wishful thinking! Monaghan are a strong contender but their lack of depth may stop them reaching their ultimate goal. Of the others I was really impressed with Roscommon last year. If Mayo slip they have an opportunity. Was also impressed with Tipperary in the league. They will cause difficulty for many teams.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 12, 2015, 08:00:34 PM
I think Mayo will slide out of the top 4 this year. :-[

Man Farr ;D

Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2015, 01:16:36 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 12:17:18 PM
Apologies seafoid, I thought your headline came from Carney's article. It looks like in this I am more aligned with Carney (gulp) where he calls the elite as the teams that can seriously hope for an All Ireland. (I'd include Cork in that list myself).

I thought it was an interesting article, AZ.
Mayo broke into the top 4 in 2011 with the semi final. They were losing to Longford the year before.
I can't see any new team winning the all Ireland this year but maybe one of the top 4 will be displaced.
Maybe Donegal have done as much as they could.
Mayo can't keep going forever without winning either. If they had won Sam they'd have faded back into the pack by now, I think.

And it is an iterative process- semifinal can lead to final appearance and then all Ireland win but it takes a while if you are not Kerry. The Dubs and Donegal served their time.
Monaghan were disappointing last year. I thought they would kick on. Armagh had a good run in the QFs too

I think neither Meath nor les Flourbags are  going to do it and it's too early for Ros/Cavan etc 
Galway need more time too.

But as Carney said
"It's a county that can dredge a maximum from its talent pool when the sniff of success emerges" ;)
 

Very few counties can do that. Not the first time Mayo have done something like that. It s all down to the quality of management as far as Mayo is concerned.

Tipp?

You are all deluding yerselves if you think Armagh are just outside this group. They are miles and miles away. I would put my own county ahead of them and we are nowhere near the top 4.

Hate to say it but the Tyronies will be there or thereabouts. cork there too.

Quote from: moysider on February 12, 2015, 10:01:36 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2015, 01:16:36 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 12:17:18 PM
Apologies seafoid, I thought your headline came from Carney's article. It looks like in this I am more aligned with Carney (gulp) where he calls the elite as the teams that can seriously hope for an All Ireland. (I'd include Cork in that list myself).

I thought it was an interesting article, AZ.
Mayo broke into the top 4 in 2011 with the semi final. They were losing to Longford the year before.
I can't see any new team winning the all Ireland this year but maybe one of the top 4 will be displaced.
Maybe Donegal have done as much as they could.
Mayo can't keep going forever without winning either. If they had won Sam they'd have faded back into the pack by now, I think.

And it is an iterative process- semifinal can lead to final appearance and then all Ireland win but it takes a while if you are not Kerry. The Dubs and Donegal served their time.
Monaghan were disappointing last year. I thought they would kick on. Armagh had a good run in the QFs too

I think neither Meath nor les Flourbags are  going to do it and it's too early for Ros/Cavan etc 
Galway need more time too.

But as Carney said
"It's a county that can dredge a maximum from its talent pool when the sniff of success emerges" ;)
 

Sounds like a pool o' poo

Who are the top 4? Is it the four you named because they were last year's semi-finalists?
If it is a lot of possibilities who will displace the top 4 comes down to the provincial winners as all they have to do then is win won game against a team who has come through a tough qualifier route.

so here you go

Munster = (probably Kerry) but Cork are improving
Leinster = Dubs
Connacht = tough call for Mayo with first game away in Galway
Ulster = Lottery

Most likely = Cork or Galway

There's no doubt. All the talk seems to be about Armagh with some talk about Roscommon. What we know about Armagh is that their so called early morning in house cage wrestling sessions seems to be working.

rrhf your winds ups are predictable and pathetic...change the record FFS. McGeeney is getting a lot of stick and i'm not exactly sure why, he's a good manager and Kildare have def dropped a few notches since he left. He will improve Armagh no doubt about that but the current team is a long long way off making the top four TBH, we need another 2 top forwards (min).

Maybe Kieran is one of these guys who people love to hate for some reason, he gets slated for over training when he's clearly not. He's apparently cage fighting the players ::), he has them at 6 in the morning doing yoga :P and God only knows what else prats on here and Media write about him. He's a quiet man who doesn't like to be in the spotlight much but you ask any of the Kildare and Armagh players about him and they'd do anything for the man and I know for a fact he's the same with the players...

I think Its more like a top 2 which are joined by  2/3 other counuties Temporarily , for the last few years its been Mayo cork and Everysecond year Donegal, but dublin and Kerry will always be there.
out side of that 5 U think the best placed teams to Join them are Galway who have massive talent coming through if they can hold it together,
so do tyrone but they all seem to be a bit identikit, No being able to get anything out of Kyle coney is a major setback.
and of course down are alway able to Make a raid in a good year , will we see the marty clarke effect again.

The top 4 of 2014 were Kerry. Mwr, Donegal and Dublin.
Cork are most likely to split them up.

Quote from: Rossfan on February 13, 2015, 09:39:07 AM
The top 4 of 2014 were Kerry. Mwr, Donegal and Dublin.
Cork are most likely to split them up.

Have any of ye actually watched Cork lately? Not even in the AI race since they won it in 2010.

Opens thread.....

sees debate about Armagh....

Leaves thread.

Quote from: Syferus on February 13, 2015, 09:58:22 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on February 13, 2015, 09:39:07 AM
The top 4 of 2014 were Kerry. Mwr, Donegal and Dublin.
Cork are most likely to split them up.

Have any of ye actually watched Cork lately? Not even in the AI I tire since they won it in 2010.

I think it will be some team other than Cork

Paddy power have the top 4 (Mayo, Kerry, dubs, Donegal) plus cork  with Cork slightly ahead of Donegal

And Galway leading the peleton a good way back at 22/1 with tyrone at 25/1 , Armagh and Monaghan at 33/1 and Ros at 40/1.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/gaa-sports/gaa-football/all-ireland-sfc

What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

It will take Tyrone to have new management before they can flourish, the Harte shackles will be on for the 2015 season. 

Quote from: Syferus on February 13, 2015, 09:58:22 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on February 13, 2015, 09:39:07 AM
The top 4 of 2014 were Kerry. Mwr, Donegal and Dublin.
Cork are most likely to split them up.

Have any of ye actually watched Cork lately? Not even in the AI race since they won it in 2010.

We're talking future here a Shyfín.

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Quote from: Bingo on February 13, 2015, 10:18:38 AM
Opens thread.....

sees debate about Armagh....

Leaves thread.

That's a bit harsh, not just Armagh's chances being debated Bingo.  Monaghan have more of a chance of making a breakthrough than Armagh IMO.

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: Bingo on February 13, 2015, 10:18:38 AM
Opens thread.....

sees debate about Armagh....

Leaves thread.

That's a bit harsh, not just Armagh's chances being debated Bingo.  Monaghan have more of a chance of making a breakthrough than Armagh IMO.

Its more that I expected some realistic debate on the matter. For the record I don't think Monaghan would be top 4, Cork ahead of them for one and it really depends on the way the draw pans out who will be final 4 standing.

Monaghan will have it all to do to get past Cavan in the first instance but would be well capable of going on a decent run in qualifiers if they need to.

With a large dollop of bias I'd say Galway,  IF  IF  IF, they can start fielding near enough their strongest team, can improve about 20% and try and organise a defence to defend a little better. We have a fair few useful enough players coming through, the Corofin contingent to come back and a few injuries to clear up. If and when all this happens I do think we can give a good game to anyone; don't buy into the fact that Kev needs a couple of years to sort them out, if they're good enough, it can be done in year 1.

Could be way off in this tho'

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

I think Derrys best 15 is better than Armaghs - don't know where your getting the definitely out of. Would give us a decent chance (say 40/60) against Tyrone and Monaghan too but wouldn't fancy us against Donegal. I'd rate Down as good as Armagh as well.

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

With a full deck of cards there wouldn't be very much between  Armagh, Tyrone and ourselves.  Division 3 Armagh are not better "definitely", that's for sure.
Frig knows how Derry will do this year (fierce tough side of the draw meaning it's an absolute mission even just to contest an Ulster final) but if most of the big players are back, we could go rightly. Would it be a shock if Derry beat either Tyrone or Armagh? Definitely not

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 13, 2015, 12:31:25 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

I think Derrys best 15 is better than Armaghs - don't know where your getting the definitely out of. Would give us a decent chance (say 40/60) against Tyrone and Monaghan too but wouldn't fancy us against Donegal. I'd rate Down as good as Armagh as well.

why are Derry so poor at the moment ?

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 12:49:36 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 13, 2015, 12:31:25 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

I think Derrys best 15 is better than Armaghs - don't know where your getting the definitely out of. Would give us a decent chance (say 40/60) against Tyrone and Monaghan too but wouldn't fancy us against Donegal. I'd rate Down as good as Armagh as well.

why are Derry so poor at the moment ?

If you are referring to the league games they are missing half their best team and haven't played a single midfielder yet in the competition.

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 12:49:36 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 13, 2015, 12:31:25 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

I think Derrys best 15 is better than Armaghs - don't know where your getting the definitely out of. Would give us a decent chance (say 40/60) against Tyrone and Monaghan too but wouldn't fancy us against Donegal. I'd rate Down as good as Armagh as well.

why are Derry so poor at the moment ?

So poor is a bit much. We've just played the 2 all ireland finalists.

A combination of missing the spine of the team, players like Fergal, Patsy, McBride and McKaigue, playing our best half forward (Big mark) in midfield where he less of a threat, Skinner back but as a bit player, bar Skinner no out and out marquee point machine of a forward, and nor wanting to peak too soon ;-)

Quote from: JoG2 on February 13, 2015, 01:22:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 12:49:36 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 13, 2015, 12:31:25 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

I think Derrys best 15 is better than Armaghs - don't know where your getting the definitely out of. Would give us a decent chance (say 40/60) against Tyrone and Monaghan too but wouldn't fancy us against Donegal. I'd rate Down as good as Armagh as well.

why are Derry so poor at the moment ?

So poor is a bit much. We've just played the 2 all ireland finalists.

A combination of missing the spine of the team, players like Fergal, Patsy, McBride and McKaigue, playing our best half forward (Big mark) in midfield where he less of a threat, Skinner back but as a bit player, bar Skinner no out and out marquee point machine of a forward, and nor wanting to peak too soon ;-)

but didn't ye lose last year to Longford. ?
Should Derry be better this year?

Skinner seems to be a fabulous player   

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 01:26:36 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on February 13, 2015, 01:22:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 12:49:36 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 13, 2015, 12:31:25 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

I think Derrys best 15 is better than Armaghs - don't know where your getting the definitely out of. Would give us a decent chance (say 40/60) against Tyrone and Monaghan too but wouldn't fancy us against Donegal. I'd rate Down as good as Armagh as well.

why are Derry so poor at the moment ?

So poor is a bit much. We've just played the 2 all ireland finalists.

A combination of missing the spine of the team, players like Fergal, Patsy, McBride and McKaigue, playing our best half forward (Big mark) in midfield where he less of a threat, Skinner back but as a bit player, bar Skinner no out and out marquee point machine of a forward, and nor wanting to peak too soon ;-)

but didn't ye lose last year to Longford. ?
Should Derry be better this year?

Skinner seems to be a fabulous player   

Last year against Longford had more to do with a severe amount of injuries at once and having to draft players in who weren't in the squad. There is a larger squad in place this year so this won't happen. Admittedly it was a poor effort regardless.
Derry will almost certainly be much worse in the league this year than last and hopefully be better in the championship.

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 13, 2015, 02:30:27 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 01:26:36 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on February 13, 2015, 01:22:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 12:49:36 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 13, 2015, 12:31:25 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

I think Derrys best 15 is better than Armaghs - don't know where your getting the definitely out of. Would give us a decent chance (say 40/60) against Tyrone and Monaghan too but wouldn't fancy us against Donegal. I'd rate Down as good as Armagh as well.

why are Derry so poor at the moment ?

So poor is a bit much. We've just played the 2 all ireland finalists.

A combination of missing the spine of the team, players like Fergal, Patsy, McBride and McKaigue, playing our best half forward (Big mark) in midfield where he less of a threat, Skinner back but as a bit player, bar Skinner no out and out marquee point machine of a forward, and nor wanting to peak too soon ;-)

but didn't ye lose last year to Longford. ?
Should Derry be better this year?

Skinner seems to be a fabulous player   

Last year against Longford had more to do with a severe amount of injuries at once and having to draft players in who weren't in the squad. There is a larger squad in place this year so this won't happen. Admittedly it was a poor effort regardless.
Derry will almost certainly be much worse in the league this year than last and hopefully be better in the championship.

good to hear. It would be nice to see Derry going places again.

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 02:45:54 PM
good to hear. It would be nice to see Derry going places again.

Armagh and Derry are going to the same destination, Division 2.

With a full pick Derry would beat Armagh. Christ this is a county full of clubs who cower at the sight of Crossmaglen.

Roscommon are the coming team.

Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 13, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
With a full pick Derry would beat Armagh. Christ this is a county full of clubs who cower at the sight of Crossmaglen.

Christ but you Derry men are fierce easy to wind up!

Quote from: Jinxy on February 13, 2015, 02:58:25 PM
Roscommon are the coming team.

Maybe syf is Johneen the Baptist

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 03:11:05 PM

Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 13, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
With a full pick Derry would beat Armagh. Christ this is a county full of clubs who cower at the sight of Crossmaglen.

Christ but you Derry men are fierce easy to wind up!

Knew you'd bite :)

Think you've got that one the wrong way round there..... :-\

You've a reputation for biting on here before when us Derry men bash Armagh clubs. Cant be bothered digging it up.

I believe that Roscommon have two main targets this year. Firstly to consolidate their position in Division 2.. After last weekend's win over Down, John Evans said that he didn't think Ros were ready for Division 1 yet.. The second target is without doubt to win the Connacht title.

Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 13, 2015, 03:20:32 PM
You've a reputation for biting on here before when us Derry men bash Armagh clubs. Cant be bothered digging it up.

Dunno about you but the rest of us are discussing the thread title. 

I think the Rossies might need Galway to take out Mayo.

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM

Quote from: Syferus on February 13, 2015, 09:58:22 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on February 13, 2015, 09:39:07 AM
The top 4 of 2014 were Kerry. Mwr, Donegal and Dublin.
Cork are most likely to split them up.

Have any of ye actually watched Cork lately? Not even in the AI I tire since they won it in 2010.

I think it will be some team other than Cork

Paddy power have the top 4 (Mayo, Kerry, dubs, Donegal) plus cork  with Cork slightly ahead of Donegal

And Galway leading the peleton a good way back at 22/1 with tyrone at 25/1 , Armagh and Monaghan at 33/1 and Ros at 40/1.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/gaa-sports/gaa-football/all-ireland-sfc

What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

IMO, Monaghan look like the best value there

Quote from: Jinxy on February 13, 2015, 03:32:26 PM
I think the Rossies might need Galway to take out Mayo.

It is Valentines' weekend.

Quote from: JoG2 on February 13, 2015, 12:36:16 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2015, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: mackers on February 13, 2015, 11:53:03 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2015, 10:26:38 AM
What about Derry ? Could they get the finger out ?

No chance.

Derry are anything from 5th to 7th best in Ulster (Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone would be above them definitely - we'll definitely see with Down and with Cavan it depends how they shape up).

With a full deck of cards there wouldn't be very much between  Armagh, Tyrone and ourselves.  Division 3 Armagh are not better "definitely", that's for sure.
Frig knows how Derry will do this year (fierce tough side of the draw meaning it's an absolute mission even just to contest an Ulster final) but if most of the big players are back, we could go rightly. Would it be a shock if Derry beat either Tyrone or Armagh? Definitely not

Derry have been woeful in the championship for a few years though and supporters seem to base their optimism on league and club teams form. Would like to see you do well but really think you're much further down pecking order than a lot of your supporters believe.

Anyway cork an monaghan picking it up a lot. Unfortunately i would agree with some that i think mayo will drop off.

Derry are awful and will get relegated from Div 1 this year. They wod appear to be going no-where fast under McIvor. For me the team to watch for in Ulster is Monaghan. Tyrone, Donegal on the slide and Armagh and Cavan on the up.

In Connacht Mayo are miles ahead with Galway makes some gains but well behind.

Leinster, after the dubs you have Meath and Kildare and that's it.

Munster, Kerry on their own with Cork stuttering and Tipp very much on the rise.

Top 4
1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Monaghan

What do Monaghan need to do to get to the next level?  Is it confidence or something else ?

Monaghan might have peaked in 2013 when they were one rugby tackle away from reaching the last four. Cavan away is a potential banana skin for them this summer. It's doubtful if Donegal,Mayo under new management's can reach the All Ireland semi finals both should reach the last eight at least. Kerry,Dublin the most likely All Ireland final this September.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 14, 2015, 12:19:16 PM
Monaghan might have peaked in 2013 when they were one rugby tackle away from reaching the last four. Cavan away is a potential banana skin for them this summer. It's doubtful if Donegal,Mayo under new management's can reach the All Ireland semi finals both should reach the last eight at least. Kerry,Dublin the most likely All Ireland final this September.

Monaghan must be the county with the most provincial titles never to win Sam.

Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2015, 11:24:24 AM
What do Monaghan need to do to get to the next level?  Is it confidence or something else ?

First thing is stay in Division 1 - you can't be a top 4 team and not be in Division 1.

After that they are on the softer side of the Ulster draw this year, so getting to the Ulster final this year is a minimum.

If they do win the  Ulster final, they need to forget about celebrating it by about 7:30 that evening, because for any team serious about being a contender for Sam a provincial final means the sum total of feck all.

I can easily see them winning Ulster (not the same as winning Ulster easily) and possibly if they have a little luck getting to the final but it's almost impossible to see them winning Sam this year. However if they stay in Division 1 comfortably and have a good Championship it should give them a good platform to be a serious contender in the next year or two.

Carney talks some crap, why is not predicting this when the Leagues are over.

Quote from: twohands!!! on February 14, 2015, 06:44:09 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2015, 11:24:24 AM
What do Monaghan need to do to get to the next level?  Is it confidence or something else ?

First thing is stay in Division 1 - you can't be a top 4 team and not be in Division 1.

After that they are on the softer side of the Ulster draw this year, so getting to the Ulster final this year is a minimum.

If they do win the  Ulster final, they need to forget about celebrating it by about 7:30 that evening, because for any team serious about being a contender for Sam a provincial final means the sum total of feck all.

I can easily see them winning Ulster (not the same as winning Ulster easily) and possibly if they have a little luck getting to the final but it's almost impossible to see them winning Sam this year. However if they stay in Division 1 comfortably and have a good Championship it should give them a good platform to be a serious contender in the next year or two.

Donegal made the AI final from D2 last year. They're also a team the brain trust here is putting in the 'top 4'.

Yeah but that really was an exception Syferus. It's very rare that a team comes from div 2. Also Donegal were div 1 year before last and back in it this year. They wouldn't be a classic div 2 team

Quote from: ck on February 14, 2015, 08:33:59 PM
Yeah but that really was an exception Syferus. It's very rare that a team comes from div 2. Also Donegal were div 1 year before last and back in it this year. They wouldn't be a classic div 2 team

Tyrone made the AISFs from D2 the previous year. Its no anomaly.

Quote from: ck on February 14, 2015, 06:36:52 AM
Derry are awful and will get relegated from Div 1 this year. They wod appear to be going no-where fast under McIvor. For me the team to watch for in Ulster is Monaghan. Tyrone, Donegal on the slide and Armagh and Cavan on the up.

In Connacht Mayo are miles ahead with Galway makes some gains but well behind.

Leinster, after the dubs you have Meath and Kildare and that's it.

Munster, Kerry on their own with Cork stuttering and Tipp very much on the rise.

Top 4
1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Monaghan

What will be different about Monaghan this year that will elevate them to top four? They've been playing at the limit of their potential over the last two years in my view and that hasn't been good enough to get there. They're a handy top 8 team but no more, and we saw what happened when they met Dublin. They just don't have the strength in depth.

Galway are lurking. I don't think they're nearly as far behind Mayo as people think and could well turn them over in Connacht this year. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them mount a serious All-Ireland challenge over the next 2 or 3 years.

Quote from: Sidney on February 15, 2015, 07:25:22 PM

Quote from: ck on February 14, 2015, 06:36:52 AM
Derry are awful and will get relegated from Div 1 this year. They wod appear to be going no-where fast under McIvor. For me the team to watch for in Ulster is Monaghan. Tyrone, Donegal on the slide and Armagh and Cavan on the up.

In Connacht Mayo are miles ahead with Galway makes some gains but well behind.

Leinster, after the dubs you have Meath and Kildare and that's it.

Munster, Kerry on their own with Cork stuttering and Tipp very much on the rise.

Top 4
1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Monaghan

What will be different about Monaghan this year that will elevate them to top four? They've been playing at the limit of their potential over the last two years in my view and that hasn't been good enough to get there. They're a handy top 8 team but no more, and we saw what happened when they met Dublin. They just don't have the strength in depth.

Galway are lurking. I don't think they're nearly as far behind Mayo as people think and could well turn them over in Connacht this year. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them mount a serious All-Ireland challenge over the next 2 or 3 years.

Agree totally, especially seen Mayo play Galway in Salthill and their wounds will be sore from the last two beatings we dished out to them in the championship. It'll be a much closer game than people think.

Galways problem in both football and hurling is they have a soft centre, they have a beautiful style of football but unlike Kerry they will not get down and dirty when they have to, they are just too nice for the current no holes barred football. They need a ruthless streak.

O'Curraoin Flynn a midfield pairing that will mix it with the best, forwards such as Walsh
Lundy Conroy Burke that will cause damage to even the best teams however its defensively that Galway have issues and will Kevin Walsh be the right manager to improve that weakness and bring Galway back to the level of 97 to 2002?

Quote from: giveballaghback on February 15, 2015, 07:52:09 PM
Galways problem in both football and hurling is they have a soft centre, they have a beautiful style of football but unlike Kerry they will not get down and dirty when they have to, they are just too nice for the current no holes barred football. They need a ruthless streak.

No holds barred. No holes barred means something different entirely!

Quote from: Sidney on February 15, 2015, 07:25:22 PM

Quote from: ck on February 14, 2015, 06:36:52 AM
Derry are awful and will get relegated from Div 1 this year. They wod appear to be going no-where fast under McIvor. For me the team to watch for in Ulster is Monaghan. Tyrone, Donegal on the slide and Armagh and Cavan on the up.

In Connacht Mayo are miles ahead with Galway makes some gains but well behind.

Leinster, after the dubs you have Meath and Kildare and that's it.

Munster, Kerry on their own with Cork stuttering and Tipp very much on the rise.

Top 4
1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Monaghan

What will be different about Monaghan this year that will elevate them to top four? They've been playing at the limit of their potential over the last two years in my view and that hasn't been good enough to get there. They're a handy top 8 team but no more, and we saw what happened when they met Dublin. They just don't have the strength in depth.

Galway are lurking. I don't think they're nearly as far behind Mayo as people think and could well turn them over in Connacht this year. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them mount a serious All-Ireland challenge over the next 2 or 3 years.

I have my doubts to be honest. You would imagine Galway v Mayo could be a lot closer this year but realistically I think Mayo might have at least one more year of Connacht dominance left in them. Both Galway and Roscommon still have some ground to make up. I mean both sides have looked decent so far but they are not playing division 1 opposition like Mayo are.

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2015, 07:57:07 PM

Quote from: giveballaghback on February 15, 2015, 07:52:09 PM
Galways problem in both football and hurling is they have a soft centre, they have a beautiful style of football but unlike Kerry they will not get down and dirty when they have to, they are just too nice for the current no holes barred football. They need a ruthless streak.

No holds barred. No holes barred means something different entirely!

;D ;D ;D

That is too funny.

Quote from: Syferus on February 14, 2015, 09:39:59 PM

Quote from: ck on February 14, 2015, 08:33:59 PM
Yeah but that really was an exception Syferus. It's very rare that a team comes from div 2. Also Donegal were div 1 year before last and back in it this year. They wouldn't be a classic div 2 team

Tyrone made the AISFs from D2 the previous year. Its no anomaly.

Donegal reached the All-Ireland semi-final in 2011 from Division 2 also. Cork were Division 2 in 2009 when they reached the All-Ireland final.

In hurling Dublin won Leinster in 2013 from Divsion 1B, which is effectively Division 2. The last two Munster champions, Limerick in 2013 and Cork in 2014 were in 1B also.

The best teams will naturally tend to be in Division 1 but it's nonsense to say you can't win an All-Ireland after being in it. Donegal didn't lose the All-Ireland last year because they had been in Division 2.

Quote from: Sidney on February 15, 2015, 09:18:52 PM

Quote from: Syferus on February 14, 2015, 09:39:59 PM

Quote from: ck on February 14, 2015, 08:33:59 PM
Yeah but that really was an exception Syferus. It's very rare that a team comes from div 2. Also Donegal were div 1 year before last and back in it this year. They wouldn't be a classic div 2 team

Tyrone made the AISFs from D2 the previous year. Its no anomaly.

Donegal reached the All-Ireland semi-final in 2011 from Division 2 also. Cork were Division 2 in 2009 when they reached the All-Ireland final.

In hurling Dublin won Leinster in 2013 from Divsion 1B, which is effectively Division 2. The last two Munster champions, Limerick in 2013 and Cork in 2014 were in 1B also.

The best teams will naturally tend to be in Division 1 but it's nonsense to say you can't win an All-Ireland after being in it. Donegal didn't lose the All-Ireland last year because they had been in Division 2.

Down and Kildare played Division 2 football before meeting in the last four in 2010. Were Meath also Div 2 in 2009?

The team that will move up a level (rather than enter this fictional top 4) will come out of the blue (if it does) over the summer. There may be slight hints of their progress over the League Campaign. But don't be expecting to see the next big thing in Gaelic football at this time of the year. If they are flying now chance are they will fade come May. Other red herrings are teams from counties doing well in the AI club championship. This means very little to the county team and if anything it disrupts preparations of the county team with players coming and going and player fatigue later in the year.

For my counties main rivals Galway and Roscommon, reaching the next level is not just beating Mayo, it's about going on and reaching at least a semi final. But beating Mayo would be a good start in the right direction.

In fairness at the moment I can't see any new threat, but as I said the team that does it will be a surprise. That's what makes sport exciting and great!

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on February 15, 2015, 08:35:40 PM

Quote from: Sidney on February 15, 2015, 07:25:22 PM

Quote from: ck on February 14, 2015, 06:36:52 AM
Derry are awful and will get relegated from Div 1 this year. They wod appear to be going no-where fast under McIvor. For me the team to watch for in Ulster is Monaghan. Tyrone, Donegal on the slide and Armagh and Cavan on the up.

In Connacht Mayo are miles ahead with Galway makes some gains but well behind.

Leinster, after the dubs you have Meath and Kildare and that's it.

Munster, Kerry on their own with Cork stuttering and Tipp very much on the rise.

Top 4
1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Monaghan

What will be different about Monaghan this year that will elevate them to top four? They've been playing at the limit of their potential over the last two years in my view and that hasn't been good enough to get there. They're a handy top 8 team but no more, and we saw what happened when they met Dublin. They just don't have the strength in depth.

Galway are lurking. I don't think they're nearly as far behind Mayo as people think and could well turn them over in Connacht this year. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them mount a serious All-Ireland challenge over the next 2 or 3 years.

I have my doubts to be honest. You would imagine Galway v Mayo could be a lot closer this year but realistically I think Mayo might have at least one more year of Connacht dominance left in them. Both Galway and Roscommon still have some ground to make up. I mean both sides have looked decent so far but they are not playing division 1 opposition like Mayo are.

In the right hands Mayo could be dominant for some time and probably indefinitely with a good board and good underage structures.
We will have to wait and see if H&C are up to the task that they were so anxious to take on.
Remember less than 5 years ago old 'soft-chat' management had us losing to Sligo and Longford in championship. The current management dismayed a lot of people I know with some 'soft-chat' after the loss to Tyrone. Look there is no shame losing an early league match to Tyrone or anybody else but daft spin is worrying. Pateen too fond of excuses for a lot of peoples liking. The Monaghan game will tell us a bit I think.

In fairness I think the dominance is over. If Mayo win Connacht this year it will be after being tested, indeed we did that last year too. Connacht rarely stays in a anyone's hands for very long.

Quote from: Syferus on February 15, 2015, 11:25:31 PM
In fairness I think the dominance is over. If Mayo win Connacht this year it will be after being tested, indeed we did that last year too. Connacht rarely stays in a anyone's hands for very long.

You're not hearing me Sy' pal :D
Connacht changes hands when Mayo screw up - usually when we have a management not up to it. Pateen is getting a second chance at not being up to it or not ;)
If we re caught in Connacht this year it is not a case as Gal. and Ros. catching up; it s a case of Mayo f**king up. Like we did in '98 and 2001  e.g.

I don't think Mayo's goose is cooked yet. They won't have any fear about playing in Salthill against Galway. Galway have new management, but what else is new. On the field, who will Galway have this year that they didn't have last year?. Themselves and Roscommon are improving, but i have my doubts about whether either will be good enough to stop Mayo's 5 in a row in Connacht this year... Mayo could find it tougher in Croke Park this year if there's any slippage in them, but i believe it will take better than Galway or Ros to floor them for this year.

Quote from: moysider on February 15, 2015, 11:01:11 PM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on February 15, 2015, 08:35:40 PM

Quote from: Sidney on February 15, 2015, 07:25:22 PM

Quote from: ck on February 14, 2015, 06:36:52 AM
Derry are awful and will get relegated from Div 1 this year. They wod appear to be going no-where fast under McIvor. For me the team to watch for in Ulster is Monaghan. Tyrone, Donegal on the slide and Armagh and Cavan on the up.

In Connacht Mayo are miles ahead with Galway makes some gains but well behind.

Leinster, after the dubs you have Meath and Kildare and that's it.

Munster, Kerry on their own with Cork stuttering and Tipp very much on the rise.

Top 4
1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Monaghan

What will be different about Monaghan this year that will elevate them to top four? They've been playing at the limit of their potential over the last two years in my view and that hasn't been good enough to get there. They're a handy top 8 team but no more, and we saw what happened when they met Dublin. They just don't have the strength in depth.

Galway are lurking. I don't think they're nearly as far behind Mayo as people think and could well turn them over in Connacht this year. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them mount a serious All-Ireland challenge over the next 2 or 3 years.

I have my doubts to be honest. You would imagine Galway v Mayo could be a lot closer this year but realistically I think Mayo might have at least one more year of Connacht dominance left in them. Both Galway and Roscommon still have some ground to make up. I mean both sides have looked decent so far but they are not playing division 1 opposition like Mayo are.

In the right hands Mayo could be dominant for some time and probably indefinitely with a good board and good underage structures.

To say Mayo could dominate indefinitely is probably slightly presumptuous at best and arrogant at worst. Nobody has ever dominated indefinitely in the past and likely never will in the future. The fortunes of teams tend to ebb and flow like the tide with rare periods when they are all quite good at the same time such as the late 90's early 00's or all quite poor at the same time such as the late 80's early 90's. More often than not only one team is of the required standard to challenge nationally at any given time. And certainly for the past 5 years or so that side has been Mayo.

Ultimately better for Connacht if Galway and Roscommon can improve to try and reach Mayo's level rather than Mayo regressing to come down to Galway and Roscommon's level.

Better Galway,Roscommon sides will naturally make the Connacht championship more competitive and tougher to win.  Not sure where this current Mayo panel are the summer will tell more however when a side has peaked not even good management will prevent a slide.

Quote from: moysider on February 15, 2015, 11:57:00 PM

Quote from: Syferus on February 15, 2015, 11:25:31 PM
In fairness I think the dominance is over. If Mayo win Connacht this year it will be after being tested, indeed we did that last year too. Connacht rarely stays in a anyone's hands for very long.

You're not hearing me Sy' pal :D
Connacht changes hands when Mayo screw up - usually when we have a management not up to it. Pateen is getting a second chance at not being up to it or not ;)
If we re caught in Connacht this year it is not a case as Gal. and Ros. catching up; it s a case of Mayo f**king up. Like we did in '98 and 2001  e.g.

That's probably the most arrogant thing I've seen you type Moy. I think Horan may have squeezed as much as could be gotten from this group of players, barring the few brain farts in the big games that kept the 'ould curse alive. It may be a case that they are so mentally and physically depleted that it doesn't matter who was managing them and they'd still be beatable. People talk about some of the key pieces not being over the hill but I look at how long teams last at the top and the effort put in to stay on the top is what burns players out rather than simply age.

I think H&C have been handed the most thankless task in Mayo football in quite some time, and the nature of their selection has only given supporters an alternative with which to beat them with if one of two up-and-coming teams leave Mayo facing into the Qualifiers.

The climb is always better than the downward journey.

Quote from: Shrewdness on February 16, 2015, 12:06:36 AM
I don't think Mayo's goose is cooked yet. They won't have any fear about playing in Salthill against Galway. Galway have new management, but what else is new. On the field, who will Galway have this year that they didn't have last year?. Themselves and Roscommon are improving, but i have my doubts about whether either will be good enough to stop Mayo's 5 in a row in Connacht this year... Mayo could find it tougher in Croke Park this year if there's any slippage in them, but i believe it will take better than Galway or Ros to floor them for this year.

Galway or Ros could floor us. Margins have been close enough most years. London nearly floored us in '11.
There s a bigger picture. What happens when a team gets into last 8. Different universe.

I suspect most Mayo fans are not too worried about 5 in-a-row. If the management is right we can do 5 and maybe the grail. If the management is not up to it this team is young enough to have a gap year and come back better. One thing we cant afford though is the scenario where Johnno was given 4 years to destroy us. James Horan s achievements, after what went before, must be one of the best managerial careers of them all.

Moysider, i take your point about Mayo people and the 5 in a row. But failure to win that 5 in a row would see Mayo having to take the back door qualifier route. That is alien territory to this Mayo team and would examine their mental fortitude. The qualifier route is a minefield littered with unexploded mines, as Mayo found to their cost in Longford. Much safer to take the 5 in a row route.

Mayo could win 10 in a row but would any of it count without Sam?

It is obviously going to be Roscommon, in fact they are likely to pull away from every other team in the country,  of course that is provided they wear the correct studs ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Shrewdness on February 16, 2015, 07:38:39 AM
Moysider, i take your point about Mayo people and the 5 in a row. But failure to win that 5 in a row would see Mayo having to take the back door qualifier route. That is alien territory to this Mayo team and would examine their mental fortitude. The qualifier route is a minefield littered with unexploded mines, as Mayo found to their cost in Longford. Much safer to take the 5 in a row route.

Failure in Connacht would probably mean an early exit on the road, yeah. That would provoke a lot of soul searching in the county.
For Roscommon and Galway beating us would be the easy part. To get to last 4/2 you have to beat a Dublin, Cork, Donegal or Kerry in CP - or Limerick!

Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2015, 09:51:26 AM
Mayo could win 10 in a row but would any of it count without Sam?

No, it wouldn't.
One of the legacies of James Horan's tenure as Mayo manager may ironically turn out to be that he increased the level of performance of both Roscommon and Galway in the long run.
2013 was an eyeopener, in that the others saw how far they were from being contenders on a national stage. Both seem to have taken those harsh lessons on board and the province may benefit at Mayos expense. It wouldn't be the first time we tee'd it up for Galway if that does come to pass.

Quote from: moysider on February 16, 2015, 02:30:10 PM

Quote from: Shrewdness on February 16, 2015, 07:38:39 AM
Moysider, i take your point about Mayo people and the 5 in a row. But failure to win that 5 in a row would see Mayo having to take the back door qualifier route. That is alien territory to this Mayo team and would examine their mental fortitude. The qualifier route is a minefield littered with unexploded mines, as Mayo found to their cost in Longford. Much safer to take the 5 in a row route.

Failure in Connacht would probably mean an early exit on the road, yeah. That would provoke a lot of soul searching in the county.
For Roscommon and Galway beating us would be the easy part. To get to last 4/2 you have to beat a Dublin, Cork, Donegal or Kerry in CP - or Limerick!

Maybe it wouldn't do any harm to dampen expectations a little. The gist of the thread here towards Mayo is that it's all or nothing. Quite a load to carry into the championship under new management. Ok you could say the same about Dublin but remember Dublin have completely different resources at their behest not to mention that they will be playing all their games on their home patch in Croker which is undoubtedly a massive advantage.

Furthermore Mayo teams of the past 2 years have been trying to peak for the late Summer. This year they will have to peak all the way through. Galway will not simply roll over especially in Pearse stadium because Mayo lads need to conserve energy. Never mind Ros.
Kerry and Cork have a much easier run of it because of the seeding system.

Overall it's not difficult to see Mayo slipping back as the workload increases in Connacht before even getting to a possible final four.

Quote from: Chimley on February 16, 2015, 03:46:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2015, 09:51:26 AM
Mayo could win 10 in a row but would any of it count without Sam?

No, it wouldn't.
One of the legacies of James Horan's tenure as Mayo manager may ironically turn out to be that he increased the level of performance of both Roscommon and Galway in the long run.
2013 was an eyeopener, in that the others saw how far they were from being contenders on a national stage. Both seem to have taken those harsh lessons on board and the province may benefit at Mayos expense. It wouldn't be the first time we tee'd it up for Galway if that does come to pass.

I would not like to see that happen again. We need mayo to win the effin thing.

Quote from: Nihilist on February 16, 2015, 04:15:29 PM

Quote from: moysider on February 16, 2015, 02:30:10 PM

Quote from: Shrewdness on February 16, 2015, 07:38:39 AM
Moysider, i take your point about Mayo people and the 5 in a row. But failure to win that 5 in a row would see Mayo having to take the back door qualifier route. That is alien territory to this Mayo team and would examine their mental fortitude. The qualifier route is a minefield littered with unexploded mines, as Mayo found to their cost in Longford. Much safer to take the 5 in a row route.

Failure in Connacht would probably mean an early exit on the road, yeah. That would provoke a lot of soul searching in the county.
For Roscommon and Galway beating us would be the easy part. To get to last 4/2 you have to beat a Dublin, Cork, Donegal or Kerry in CP - or Limerick!

Maybe it wouldn't do any harm to dampen expectations a little. The gist of the thread here towards Mayo is that it's all or nothing. Quite a load to carry into the championship under new management. Ok you could say the same about Dublin but remember Dublin have completely different resources at their behest not to mention that they will be playing all their games on their home patch in Croker which is undoubtedly a massive advantage.

Furthermore Mayo teams of the past 2 years have been trying to peak for the late Summer. This year they will have to peak all the way through. Galway will not simply roll over especially in Pearse stadium because Mayo lads need to conserve energy. Never mind Ros.
Kerry and Cork have a much easier run of it because of the seeding system.

Overall it's not difficult to see Mayo slipping back as the workload increases in Connacht before even getting to a possible final four.

Peaking later, maybe. But I don't really think they will be trying to conserve energy. Look at the Rugby World Cup and how quickly high intensity games will come around. They need to conserve energy, our Championship is so drawn out that imho energy isn't a problem.

If the top 4 were picked after last years leagues it would have read as follows, 1 Dubs a mile ahead of the rest and a shoe in for the all-ire. 2 Mayo because they have been in the last 2 all-ire finals and have no contest in connacht only a div 2 galway that should have been relegated and a div 3 team ros. 3. Cork they destroyed a poor Kerry team in killarney and will have learned a good lesson against the unbeatable dubs in the semi. 4 Monaghan, they easily beat a Donegal team in decline and look the best of the rest.
How many made the last 4, more importantly how many made the all ire?
This is all a load of crap and most of the crap is coming from moysider and the very aptly named muppet.

Quote from: giveballaghback on February 16, 2015, 08:52:29 PM
If the top 4 were picked after last years leagues it would have read as follows, 1 Dubs a mile ahead of the rest and a shoe in for the all-ire. 2 Mayo because they have been in the last 2 all-ire finals and have no contest in connacht only a div 2 galway that should have been relegated and a div 3 team ros. 3. Cork they destroyed a poor Kerry team in killarney and will have learned a good lesson against the unbeatable dubs in the semi. 4 Monaghan, they easily beat a Donegal team in decline and look the best of the rest.
How many made the last 4, more importantly how many made the all ire?
This is all a load of crap and most of the crap is coming from moysider and the very aptly named muppet.

What, the thread or your post??

Farrandeelan, more rhubarb crap, it can do that to you, be careful, Mayoforsam 2525,if man is still alive

Quote from: giveballaghback on February 16, 2015, 08:52:29 PM
If the top 4 were picked after last years leagues it would have read as follows, 1 Dubs a mile ahead of the rest and a shoe in for the all-ire. 2 Mayo because they have been in the last 2 all-ire finals and have no contest in connacht only a div 2 galway that should have been relegated and a div 3 team ros. 3. Cork they destroyed a poor Kerry team in killarney and will have learned a good lesson against the unbeatable dubs in the semi. 4 Monaghan, they easily beat a Donegal team in decline and look the best of the rest.
How many made the last 4, more importantly how many made the all ire?
This is all a load of crap and most of the crap is coming from moysider and the very aptly named muppet.

Until this post, you have more posts on this thread than me Einstein.  ;D

Now please post all of the stuff you consider 'crap' on this thread.

And then show how Moysider & myself are contributing most of it.

Take your time now.

Quote from: giveballaghback on February 16, 2015, 10:23:25 PM
Farrandeelan, more rhubarb crap, it can do that to you, be careful, Mayoforsam 2525,if man is still alive

You're very snappy on Mayo related stuff tonight. Don't tell me youve shat your pants already on the Rossie revolution. All I'm hearing from down home is " the Rossies have the chest out tellin us the training they're doin is out of the Dublin model and it's all hands to the pump to win provincial title "

Where does evans get the head down with so much training goin on , he's hardly drivin up from kerry every time?

Read it again muppet, I said most of the crap not most of the posts.

This lad is obviously a bit confused.
Here s a Rossie with a username that indicates that he wants the town of Ballaghadereen given back to Mayo. Very noble of him.

Quote from: giveballaghback on February 16, 2015, 10:23:25 PM
Farrandeelan, more rhubarb crap, it can do that to you, be careful, Mayoforsam 2525,if man is still alive

Take it easy chief, I just didn't understand your post.

Quote from: moysider on February 16, 2015, 10:50:48 PM
This lad is obviously a bit confused.
Here s a Rossie with a username that indicates that he wants the town of Ballaghadereen given back to Mayo. Very noble of him.

Sure that'd be like a Ballina man wanting to give Ballina back to Sligo. Madness altogether sure.

Quote from: giveballaghback on February 16, 2015, 10:39:06 PM
Read it again muppet, I said most of the crap not most of the posts.

Read it again.

This is what you said:

"This is all a load of crap and most of the crap is coming from moysider and the very aptly named muppet."

You Connacht boyos wanna f**k away off to your own thread and let us discuss the thread title perhaps.?

Quote from: Brick Tamlin on February 17, 2015, 08:32:04 AM
You Connacht boyos wanna f**k away off to your own thread and let us discuss the thread title perhaps.?

Good idea Brick, we need a one stop shop for all Ballagh/Bellahy/Ardnaree related bickering with a bit of Galwey bashing thrown in for good measure. This searching through different threads looking for the good stuff is too time consuming. I'll create one now.

Quote from: Brick Tamlin on February 17, 2015, 08:32:04 AM
You Connacht boyos wanna f**k away off to your own thread and let us discuss the thread title perhaps.?

Makes a change from non stop Ulsterisation of every thread.

Connacht actually is starting to get competitive like Ulster. Galway, Mayo and the Rossies are three teams who can win the title. Obviously Mayo are top dogs but the other two are def improving to give Mayo their fill of it. Sligo have slipped a few notches and Leitrim are well at the foot of the table...

Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2015, 11:06:36 AM

Quote from: Brick Tamlin on February 17, 2015, 08:32:04 AM
You Connacht boyos wanna f**k away off to your own thread and let us discuss the thread title perhaps.?

Makes a change from non stop Ulsterisation of every thread.

Yes, I've read through the past couple of pages thinking that this discussion makes for a refreshing change!

Quote from: illdecide on February 17, 2015, 11:44:09 AM
Connacht actually is starting to get competitive like Ulster. Galway, Mayo and the Rossies are three teams who can win the title. Obviously Mayo are top dogs but the other two are def improving to give Mayo their fill of it. Sligo have slipped a few notches and Leitrim are well at the foot of the table...

1 big fish and a couple of teams improving. Theres still night and day between the Connacht and Ulster

Back to the threads topic. This is how I see it in terms of tiers.

Kerry, Donegal, Dublin
Mayo
Cork, Tyrone, Monaghan
Armagh, Derry, Down, Kildare, Galway, Roscommon, Cavan
Westmeath, Meath, Laois, Tipperary, Fermanagh
Louth, Clare, Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, Longford
Offaly, Carlow, Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim, Wicklow
London
New York

Don't think that's too far away. Mayo only slightly below the others due to their failure to win an AI but ahead of the rest. Cork, Tyrone and Monaghan most likely to break top 4. Tipp probably the team most likely to move up. I hope I haven't offended too many ;)

Quote from: Syferus on February 17, 2015, 01:36:54 AM

Quote from: moysider on February 16, 2015, 10:50:48 PM
This lad is obviously a bit confused.
Here s a Rossie with a username that indicates that he wants the town of Ballaghadereen given back to Mayo. Very noble of him.

Sure that'd be like a Ballina man wanting to give Ballina back to Sligo. Madness altogether sure.

<sigh>

Here we go again- yet another thread disrupted by you and Smiley Burnett.
The Gruesome Twosome strikes again and a thread that was moving along nicely gets mucked up with your mucky hoof prints.
You boys must be aiming to get into the Guinness Book of Records for the most senseless contributions to the greatest number of threads on the widest variety of topics in 24 hours.
(Well, at least it seems that way,)
It's a bit embarrassing having to continually apologise to the rest of humanity that we actually live beside you.
In the Land of the Woolly Jumpers, cop on is a rare commodity indeed. Otherwise ye would realise that baaing and bleating on every thread on this board will get you nowhere.
When the Ballagh club was founded it affiliated with the Mayo County Board, before the nefarious land gab. The members chose to stay with Mayo- end of story.
The GAA is above politics or should be, although it seems Roscommon is a notable exception.
Unless the registered club members of the Ballagh club decide to lower their standards and abandon their birthright, they cannot be forced to gambol in your mucky sheep pen. Again, end of story.

BTW, your geography teacher deservers a good kick up the arse if he left you thinking Ballina was ever in Sligo. Maybe you were thinking of Ardnaree. The club there was founded in 1948, fully 50 years after the boundary changes and the members opted to play in Mayo. Once again, end of story.

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 17, 2015, 12:35:44 PM
Back to the threads topic. This is how I see it in terms of tiers.

Kerry, Donegal, Dublin
Mayo
Cork, Tyrone, Monaghan
Armagh, Derry, Down, Kildare, Galway, Roscommon, Cavan
Westmeath, Meath, Laois, Tipperary, Fermanagh
Louth, Clare, Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, Longford
Offaly, Carlow, Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim, Wicklow
London
New York

Don't think that's too far away. Mayo only slightly below the others due to their failure to win an AI but ahead of the rest. Cork, Tyrone and Monaghan most likely to break top 4. Tipp probably the team most likely to move up. I hope I haven't offended too many ;)

Would swap Mayo with Donegal (think the latter are really going to struggle and will be found out in the absence of Jimmys-winning-matches). Would also mix up the next 2 tiers as probably any of them are capable of beating each other, though Kildare looking a little weak at present.

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 17, 2015, 12:35:44 PM
Back to the threads topic. This is how I see it in terms of tiers.

Kerry, Donegal, Dublin
Mayo
Cork, Tyrone, Monaghan
Armagh, Derry, Down, Kildare, Galway, Roscommon, Cavan
Westmeath, Meath, Laois, Tipperary, Fermanagh
Louth, Clare, Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, Longford
Offaly, Carlow, Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim, Wicklow
London
New York

Don't think that's too far away. Mayo only slightly below the others due to their failure to win an AI but ahead of the rest. Cork, Tyrone and Monaghan most likely to break top 4. Tipp probably the team most likely to move up. I hope I haven't offended too many ;)

Kerry  Dublin
Mayo
Donegal Cork Monaghan
Armagh Derry Down Galway Roscommon Cavan Tyrone Kildare


Cork are due a decent year (they have the personnel)
Tyrone have absolutely zero chance of breaking into the 'top 4' this year (no harm to them). Who knows post Michael of Harte though....?

Quote from: JoG2 on February 17, 2015, 01:26:37 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 17, 2015, 12:35:44 PM
Back to the threads topic. This is how I see it in terms of tiers.

Kerry, Donegal, Dublin
Mayo
Cork, Tyrone, Monaghan
Armagh, Derry, Down, Kildare, Galway, Roscommon, Cavan
Westmeath, Meath, Laois, Tipperary, Fermanagh
Louth, Clare, Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, Longford
Offaly, Carlow, Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim, Wicklow
London
New York

Don't think that's too far away. Mayo only slightly below the others due to their failure to win an AI but ahead of the rest. Cork, Tyrone and Monaghan most likely to break top 4. Tipp probably the team most likely to move up. I hope I haven't offended too many ;)

Kerry  Dublin
Mayo
Donegal Cork Monaghan
Armagh Derry Down Galway Roscommon Cavan Tyrone Kildare


Cork are due a decent year (they have the personnel)
Tyrone have absolutely zero chance of breaking into the 'top 4' this year (no harm to them). Who knows post Michael of Harte though....?

I agree.  I reckon that once Harte is gone Tyrone could make the leap back.

Quote from: nrico2006 on February 17, 2015, 01:33:21 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on February 17, 2015, 01:26:37 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 17, 2015, 12:35:44 PM
Back to the threads topic. This is how I see it in terms of tiers.

Kerry, Donegal, Dublin
Mayo
Cork, Tyrone, Monaghan
Armagh, Derry, Down, Kildare, Galway, Roscommon, Cavan
Westmeath, Meath, Laois, Tipperary, Fermanagh
Louth, Clare, Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, Longford
Offaly, Carlow, Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim, Wicklow
London
New York

Don't think that's too far away. Mayo only slightly below the others due to their failure to win an AI but ahead of the rest. Cork, Tyrone and Monaghan most likely to break top 4. Tipp probably the team most likely to move up. I hope I haven't offended too many ;)

Kerry  Dublin
Mayo
Donegal Cork Monaghan
Armagh Derry Down Galway Roscommon Cavan Tyrone Kildare


Cork are due a decent year (they have the personnel)
Tyrone have absolutely zero chance of breaking into the 'top 4' this year (no harm to them). Who knows post Michael of Harte though....?

I agree.  I reckon that once Harte is gone Tyrone could make the leap back.

Ye might be unhappy with how things go after Harte. Greatest manager of his generation and probably of all-time too. You can only go downhill from there.

Quote from: Syferus on February 17, 2015, 02:02:19 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on February 17, 2015, 01:33:21 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on February 17, 2015, 01:26:37 PM

Quote from: oakleaflad on February 17, 2015, 12:35:44 PM
Back to the threads topic. This is how I see it in terms of tiers.

Kerry, Donegal, Dublin
Mayo
Cork, Tyrone, Monaghan
Armagh, Derry, Down, Kildare, Galway, Roscommon, Cavan
Westmeath, Meath, Laois, Tipperary, Fermanagh
Louth, Clare, Limerick, Sligo, Wexford, Longford
Offaly, Carlow, Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim, Wicklow
London
New York

Don't think that's too far away. Mayo only slightly below the others due to their failure to win an AI but ahead of the rest. Cork, Tyrone and Monaghan most likely to break top 4. Tipp probably the team most likely to move up. I hope I haven't offended too many ;)

Kerry  Dublin
Mayo
Donegal Cork Monaghan
Armagh Derry Down Galway Roscommon Cavan Tyrone Kildare


Cork are due a decent year (they have the personnel)
Tyrone have absolutely zero chance of breaking into the 'top 4' this year (no harm to them). Who knows post Michael of Harte though....?

I agree.  I reckon that once Harte is gone Tyrone could make the leap back.

Ye might be unhappy with how things go after Harte. Greatest manager of his generation and probably of all-time too. You can only go downhill from there.

We have went downhill from where we were under his watch too.  Hasn't moved with the times.  Time for a change.

I think Tyrone's period in purgatory should be shorter than meath's due to secular factors influencing fuball in the wee six. Ulster was basically excluded from competitive fuball from the onset of the war in 1969 until wee james and linden in 91. This was a sporting anomaly. Throne are worth more than 3 all irelands and are at least a good a franchise as Cork who have 7. Going back further Cavan would probably not have won 5 all irelands if there had been no partition.

Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2015, 03:32:14 PM
I think Tyrone's period in purgatory should be shorter than meath's due to secular factors influencing fuball in the wee six. Ulster was basically excluded from competitive fuball from the onset of the war in 1969 until wee james and linden in 91. This was a sporting anomaly. Throne are worth more than 3 all irelands and are at least a good a franchise as Cork who have 7. Going back further Cavan would probably not have won 5 all irelands if there had been no partition.

A very annoying post, in more ways than one.
Cavan's five AI's have nothing to do with partition, that is just mental. You could argue that Cavan have won more Ulsters than they would've if  not for partition, but not AI's. Cavan were the best team in the country for each AI, other teams in Ulster had no bearing on that. In fact it would make more sense to say that Cavan would've won more AI's if there had been no partition because they would improve with more competition. Its easy to forget that Cavan were going for three in a row when they were beaten in the '49 final. I dont think partition had any influence on that. They won 3 AI's between 47-52 and were in 4 finals. They were beaten in the final in 43, 45 and 49. That was not partition, it was one of the great teams in the history of the game.
Down won 3 AI' in the sixties, the "onset of war" isnt what stopped them winning more after that, it was time. Its like saying Dublin would have less AI's if Kilkenny played football instead of so much hurling.

Cavan have 39 ulsters other than 97 all were won pre early 60s. Far ahead of any other ulster county.  Down only got going in 60 and have 5 sams. In the next 50 years down and throne will probably win more than cavan.
Cavan developed a fabulous tradition but partition gave it a huge advantage it no longer has imo.

Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2015, 06:37:52 PM
Cavan have 39 ulsters other than 97 all were won pre early 60s. Far ahead of any other ulster county.  Down only got going in 60 and have 5 sams. In the next 50 years down and throne will probably win more than cavan.
Cavan developed a fabulous tradition but partition gave it a huge advantage it no longer has imo.

Im not really arguing with you as regards the Ulster titles, but you can't say that Cavan would've won less AI's if partition had never happened. Its wasnt just Ulster teams that couldn't beat them ffs! Why did Cavan stop winning Ulsters after 69 if they had such a "huge advantage"? If there was any sense to what you are saying, why then Just when things were reaching their worst point in the North, when this so called advantage was at its peak, did Cavan stop winning Ulster titles? You are talkin shite lad! Why did Donegal and monaghan not win more? Monaghan won 15 Ulsters by the 80s, why no All Irelands to go with them? Did Cavan beat Keryy in the 47 final because of partition? Some of the greatest players of all time were on that team, you do them a disservice.

As a matter of interest, would you devalue Galways hurling AI's in the same way?

The Cavan one is interesting, if a bit academic.  Did they stop winning by the 70s because the other counties got better, or did something change in Cavan itself. Donegal,  for example did not even make their FIRST Ulster final till '63 and didn't win until '72, finally beating Down at the third attempt! Not sure what the story with us was. Emigration would obviously be a huge issue,  but wouldn't Cavan have had that problem too, or did the relative closeness of Dublin blunt some of the effect? Maybe we were just waiting for McEniff!

We were and still are a football mad county. We had a couple of fantastic teams and a handfull of true greats like John Joe O'Reilly, Mick Higgins, PJ Duke, etc, who happened to all be around at the same time. We were the team of the decade if you went '45-'55. Its as simple as that. No further explanation required. Back to the topic, no more ring talk.

Cavan are a far more successful county than Galway given their respective picks.

Quote from: J70 on February 17, 2015, 09:12:49 PM
The Cavan one is interesting, if a bit academic.  Did they stop winning by the 70s because the other counties got better, or did something change in Cavan itself. Donegal,  for example did not even make their FIRST Ulster final till '63 and didn't win until '72, finally beating Down at the third attempt! Not sure what the story with us was. Emigration would obviously be a huge issue,  but wouldn't Cavan have had that problem too, or did the relative closeness of Dublin blunt some of the effect? Maybe we were just waiting for McEniff!

Cavan and Donegal had a large decrease in population, more so than counties to the East. Not sure why Donegal was less successful early on, it is big and no so different geographically from the likes of Kerry, most likely it was riddled with soccer.

Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2015, 10:36:02 PM

Quote from: J70 on February 17, 2015, 09:12:49 PM
The Cavan one is interesting, if a bit academic.  Did they stop winning by the 70s because the other counties got better, or did something change in Cavan itself. Donegal,  for example did not even make their FIRST Ulster final till '63 and didn't win until '72, finally beating Down at the third attempt! Not sure what the story with us was. Emigration would obviously be a huge issue,  but wouldn't Cavan have had that problem too, or did the relative closeness of Dublin blunt some of the effect? Maybe we were just waiting for McEniff!

Cavan and Donegal had a large decrease in population, more so than counties to the East. Not sure why Donegal was less successful early on, it is big and no so different geographically from the likes of Kerry, most likely it was riddled with soccer.

Riddled. I wen t to College with lads from North Donegal who regarded GAA a joke. Soccer (Celtic) was the man. Work with a lad now who is a mad Celtic fan but manages to enjoy Donegal's latest success too ;D
Sligo would have the same problem in the city.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 17, 2015, 10:31:54 PM
Cavan are a far more successful county than Galway given their respective picks.

How much population of Galway is footballing though? I know there's a line north of somewhere (the railway track I read somewhere?) and Ballinasloe. Given a large enough portion of Galway's population is hurling, that might not be the case Mike. And it pains me to say it that Mayo only have one third of the amount of Sams they have... :-X

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2015, 11:13:39 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 17, 2015, 10:31:54 PM
Cavan are a far more successful county than Galway given their respective picks.

How much population of Galway is footballing though? I know there's a line north of somewhere (the railway track I read somewhere?) and Ballinasloe. Given a large enough portion of Galway's population is hurling, that might not be the case Mike. And it pains me to say it that Mayo only have one third of the amount of Sams they have... :-X

Galway is about 50/50 football/hurling I would guess. Give or take. Similiar enough amount of clubs in both. Not very many dual clubs. The footballing land area would be substantially larger but west Galway would be fairly sparsely populated for such a large area.

As Farr has pointed out - there is a misconception that Galway somehow have a huge pick in Gaelic football terms.
Yes it is geographically quite a large county but you can pretty much reduce that by half straight away due to it being split in 2 in gaa terms between football and hurling.
There are plenty of far smaller counties who would have much the same sort of pick in terms of playing numbers and number of clubs as there are in Galway.
Some of the clubs in the county would be included as being football clubs because they may have a token football side affiliated to the county board (I.e they may enter a team in junior B or junior C championship competition where they may or may not actually field a team).

Mayo and Galway are similar in terms of geographical size but in Gaa terms Mayo are almost exclusively a Gaelic football county so would have a greater pick of players than Galway would.
Given the size of the county you could argue that Mayo have most definitely underachieved.
If Galway were similarly an almost exclusively Gaelic football county & had the pick of areas such as Portumna,Gort,Clarinbridge,Loughrea etc I think we would be very hard to stop.
Alas that's not ever likely to be the case.

Quote from: big balla on February 17, 2015, 07:55:49 PM
As a matter of interest, would you devalue Galways hurling AI's in the same way?

Maybe. If it was just down to getting into the semis and they never won anything afterwards.
We need more data. Time will tell.

Quote from: big balla on February 17, 2015, 07:55:49 PM
As a matter of interest, would you devalue Galways hurling AI's in the same way?

You make a good point.

Galway have only won 4 AI despite well over a century of automatic Semi-final spots.

Cavan's achievments are very impressive compared to that staggering level of mediocrity.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 18, 2015, 11:38:48 AM

Quote from: big balla on February 17, 2015, 07:55:49 PM
As a matter of interest, would you devalue Galways hurling AI's in the same way?

You make a good point.

Galway have only won 4 AI despite well over a century of automatic Semi-final spots.

Cavan's achievments are very impressive compared to that staggering level of mediocrity.

replying to you is like picking at a scab. There is no point. Go find someone else to manipulate.

Quote from: seafoid on February 18, 2015, 12:29:03 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 18, 2015, 11:38:48 AM

Quote from: big balla on February 17, 2015, 07:55:49 PM
As a matter of interest, would you devalue Galways hurling AI's in the same way?

You make a good point.

Galway have only won 4 AI despite well over a century of automatic Semi-final spots.

Cavan's achievments are very impressive compared to that staggering level of mediocrity.

replying to you is like picking at a scab. There is no point. Go find someone else to manipulate.

So do you still think Cavans AI are devalued or not ? and, if so, does that mean Galways are as well  ? You didn't answer Big Balla's question. You just gave your usual bullshit doublespeak answer.

Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2015, 10:36:02 PM

Quote from: J70 on February 17, 2015, 09:12:49 PM
The Cavan one is interesting, if a bit academic.  Did they stop winning by the 70s because the other counties got better, or did something change in Cavan itself. Donegal,  for example did not even make their FIRST Ulster final till '63 and didn't win until '72, finally beating Down at the third attempt! Not sure what the story with us was. Emigration would obviously be a huge issue,  but wouldn't Cavan have had that problem too, or did the relative closeness of Dublin blunt some of the effect? Maybe we were just waiting for McEniff!

Cavan and Donegal had a large decrease in population, more so than counties to the East. Not sure why Donegal was less successful early on, it is big and no so different geographically from the likes of Kerry, most likely it was riddled with soccer.

Fair point on the soccer. Thankfully these days most lads would be playing both, although the county team has lost a few lads here and there to Harps.

Quote from: galwayman on February 18, 2015, 12:42:28 AM
As Farr has pointed out - there is a misconception that Galway somehow have a huge pick in Gaelic football terms.
Yes it is geographically quite a large county but you can pretty much reduce that by half straight away due to it being split in 2 in gaa terms between football and hurling.
There are plenty of far smaller counties who would have much the same sort of pick in terms of playing numbers and number of clubs as there are in Galway.
Some of the clubs in the county would be included as being football clubs because they may have a token football side affiliated to the county board (I.e they may enter a team in junior B or junior C championship competition where they may or may not actually field a team).

Mayo and Galway are similar in terms of geographical size but in Gaa terms Mayo are almost exclusively a Gaelic football county so would have a greater pick of players than Galway would.
Given the size of the county you could argue that Mayo have most definitely underachieved.
If Galway were similarly an almost exclusively Gaelic football county & had the pick of areas such as Portumna,Gort,Clarinbridge,Loughrea etc I think we would be very hard to stop.
Alas that's not ever likely to be the case.

Hugely underachieved.

Personally I believe it's likely to be Roscommon, but I'd like to hear more from their posters here before I'd be convinced.

Owenmoresider, to be honest, i'm not really sure that we'll break into the 'top 4'.. Presuming we don't slip up in Ruislip, there is then a potential banana skin of an away match to Sligo, who are bound to be fired up. If we win that, there is then the small matter of Galway or Mayo in a Connacht Final. Right now, it's hard to look any further ahead than that.. But there's no doubt that the two Kerrymen have their sights set on winning the Connacht title.

I'd say we're top 12 at best right now.
I'd be well pleased if we make the quarter finals this year,preferably
as Connacht champions.
However a lot of balls to be kicked yet so we'll see.

What we're trying to say Owenmore, is that we're still rated No 3 in Connacht.

Quote from: Shrewdness on February 18, 2015, 07:33:12 PM
What we're trying to say Owenmore, is that we're still rated No 3 in Connacht.

To be fair we were clearly the second best team in Connacht last year and would have made the AIQFs with Galway's draw too. This year it's more of a toss up, at least until we see how the league match goes. Mulholland failed to launch as a senior manager, though it can't be all blamed on him.

Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 18, 2015, 04:55:40 PM
Personally I believe it's likely to be Roscommon, but I'd like to hear more from their posters here before I'd be convinced.

Outstanding show and go!  :D

Quote from: galwayman on February 18, 2015, 12:42:28 AM
As Farr has pointed out - there is a misconception that Galway somehow have a huge pick in Gaelic football terms.
Yes it is geographically quite a large county but you can pretty much reduce that by half straight away due to it being split in 2 in gaa terms between football and hurling.
There are plenty of far smaller counties who would have much the same sort of pick in terms of playing numbers and number of clubs as there are in Galway.
Some of the clubs in the county would be included as being football clubs because they may have a token football side affiliated to the county board (I.e they may enter a team in junior B or junior C championship competition where they may or may not actually field a team).

Mayo and Galway are similar in terms of geographical size but in Gaa terms Mayo are almost exclusively a Gaelic football county so would have a greater pick of players than Galway would.
Given the size of the county you could argue that Mayo have most definitely underachieved.
If Galway were similarly an almost exclusively Gaelic football county & had the pick of areas such as Portumna,Gort,Clarinbridge,Loughrea etc I think we would be very hard to stop.
Alas that's not ever likely to be the case.

Jaysus, that being the case, imagine the successes the teams from the wee 6 would have had if they had the whole adult male population to pick from and not just the pat-and-mick's...

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2015, 11:13:39 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 17, 2015, 10:31:54 PM
Cavan are a far more successful county than Galway given their respective picks.

How much population of Galway is footballing though? I know there's a line north of somewhere (the railway track I read somewhere?) and Ballinasloe. Given a large enough portion of Galway's population is hurling, that might not be the case Mike. And it pains me to say it that Mayo only have one third of the amount of Sams they have... :-X

Its up to each county to make the most of their available populations. Cavan had under 60k people when they were winning All Irelands which is a fine achievement. Not sure if there is a smaller county that has done it. Galway has a whole city. If they cannot get people in the city mobilised to play GAA  then that is their problem.

Armagh is a very small county and about 50% of the population are the wrong colour of Orange (exception of South Armagh). It's all about luck too in my opinion as you need to hit with a bunch of exceptional players coming through at the same time as Caltra won an All Ireland at club level and they'd a population in their village of about 65 FFS.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 19, 2015, 03:24:23 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2015, 11:13:39 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 17, 2015, 10:31:54 PM
Cavan are a far more successful county than Galway given their respective picks.

How much population of Galway is footballing though? I know there's a line north of somewhere (the railway track I read somewhere?) and Ballinasloe. Given a large enough portion of Galway's population is hurling, that might not be the case Mike. And it pains me to say it that Mayo only have one third of the amount of Sams they have... :-X

Its up to each county to make the most of their available populations. Cavan had under 60k people when they were winning All Irelands which is a fine achievement. Not sure if there is a smaller county that has done it. Galway has a whole city. If they cannot get people in the city mobilised to play GAA  then that is their problem.

the heartland of Galway football is around Tuam in the north of the county. I think the 3 in a row team came from a 20 mile radius of there.
Harnessing the city is a longer term project. GAA success is often more about families than population. See Kildare.

Ros in the 40s probably had less than 60k.

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2015, 03:45:17 PM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 19, 2015, 03:24:23 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2015, 11:13:39 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 17, 2015, 10:31:54 PM
Cavan are a far more successful county than Galway given their respective picks.

How much population of Galway is footballing though? I know there's a line north of somewhere (the railway track I read somewhere?) and Ballinasloe. Given a large enough portion of Galway's population is hurling, that might not be the case Mike. And it pains me to say it that Mayo only have one third of the amount of Sams they have... :-X

Its up to each county to make the most of their available populations. Cavan had under 60k people when they were winning All Irelands which is a fine achievement. Not sure if there is a smaller county that has done it. Galway has a whole city. If they cannot get people in the city mobilised to play GAA  then that is their problem.

the heartland of Galway football is around Tuam in the north of the county. I think the 3 in a row team came from a 20 mile radius of there.
Harnessing the city is a longer term project. GAA success is often more about families than population. See Kildare.

Ros in the 40s probably had less than 60k.

The population of Roscommon in the 1946 census was 72,510. Back on the rise for the last few decades.

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2015, 03:45:17 PM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 19, 2015, 03:24:23 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2015, 11:13:39 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 17, 2015, 10:31:54 PM
Cavan are a far more successful county than Galway given their respective picks.

How much population of Galway is footballing though? I know there's a line north of somewhere (the railway track I read somewhere?) and Ballinasloe. Given a large enough portion of Galway's population is hurling, that might not be the case Mike. And it pains me to say it that Mayo only have one third of the amount of Sams they have... :-X

Its up to each county to make the most of their available populations. Cavan had under 60k people when they were winning All Irelands which is a fine achievement. Not sure if there is a smaller county that has done it. Galway has a whole city. If they cannot get people in the city mobilised to play GAA  then that is their problem.

the heartland of Galway football is around Tuam in the north of the county. I think the 3 in a row team came from a 20 mile radius of there.
Harnessing the city is a longer term project. GAA success is often more about families than population. See Kildare.

Ros in the 40s probably had less than 60k.

Which one of Cavan's AI's in particular do you think they don't deserve?

I see this is the Chinese "Year of the Sheep".
Dare we dream...... or wait till 2027 when it comes around again.

Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 08:12:01 PM
I see this is the Chinese "Year of the Sheep".
Dare we dream...... or wait till 2027 when it comes around again.

ros win around one out of every 5 connacht titles and are behind schedule this time
4 in a row from 77 on, 2 in a row 1990/91 and singles in 2001 and 2010. That is 4 since 1981 meaning 3 are due now to catch up with the long term average.

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2015, 03:45:17 PM
Harnessing the city is a longer term project. GAA success is often more about families than population. See Kildare.

Ros in the 40s probably had less than 60k.

see, there you go again. What have you got against Kildare ? you are always making  sly, sneaky  digs at them.
I think you like soft targets. You know the Kildare lads have no comeback because of '98.

Quote from: Old yeller on February 19, 2015, 07:09:20 PM
Which one of Cavan's AI's in particular do you think they don't deserve?

I bet he won't answer you.

Kerry snuck in last year for their win, but realistically I expect this year that they progress to be regarded as a credible contender and not just a lucky outfit.  Id have them fairy close to the top 4 on that basis.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 19, 2015, 08:53:49 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2015, 03:45:17 PM
Harnessing the city is a longer term project. GAA success is often more about families than population. See Kildare.

Ros in the 40s probably had less than 60k.

see, there you go again. What have you got against Kildare ? you are always making  sly, sneaky  digs at them.
I think you like soft targets. You know the Kildare lads have no comeback because of '98.

He's underlining the fact that successful families / clans / generations are very much responsible for success, not large populations as such. cf. Kerry.

Grow up a bit and stop sniping. Are you in third level education or past it?

Quote from: mouview on February 19, 2015, 10:09:31 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 19, 2015, 08:53:49 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2015, 03:45:17 PM
Harnessing the city is a longer term project. GAA success is often more about families than population. See Kildare.

Ros in the 40s probably had less than 60k.

see, there you go again. What have you got against Kildare ? you are always making  sly, sneaky  digs at them.
I think you like soft targets. You know the Kildare lads have no comeback because of '98.

He's underlining the fact that successful families / clans / generations are very much responsible for success, not large populations as such. cf. Kerry.

Grow up a bit and stop sniping. Are you in third level education or past it?

Listen, if he didn't feel the need to have cheap shots at certain counties I wouldn't feel the need to call him out.

He clearly has some problem with Kildare that needs explaining.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 19, 2015, 10:23:46 PM

Quote from: mouview on February 19, 2015, 10:09:31 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 19, 2015, 08:53:49 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2015, 03:45:17 PM
Harnessing the city is a longer term project. GAA success is often more about families than population. See Kildare.

Ros in the 40s probably had less than 60k.

see, there you go again. What have you got against Kildare ? you are always making  sly, sneaky  digs at them.
I think you like soft targets. You know the Kildare lads have no comeback because of '98.

He's underlining the fact that successful families / clans / generations are very much responsible for success, not large populations as such. cf. Kerry.

Grow up a bit and stop sniping. Are you in third level education or past it?

Listen, if he didn't feel the need to have cheap shots at certain counties I wouldn't feel the need to call him out.

He clearly has some problem with Kildare that needs explaining.

He'll be along shortly with links to Financial Times articles outlining Kildare GAA's financial meltdown in minute detail.

Do an advanced search of "Kildare" by user "Seafoid" and tell me I am wrong....

And Meath for some reason :)

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 19, 2015, 10:35:00 PM
And Meath for some reason :)

yup..and what do Meath and Kildare have in common when it comes to Galway  ;)

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 19, 2015, 10:58:35 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 19, 2015, 10:35:00 PM
And Meath for some reason :)

yup..and what do Meath and Kildare have in common when it comes to Galway  ;)

Well it's quite unlikely anyone from Galway would have a problem (historically or otherwise) with Kildare or Meath GAA-wise.
Your insinuations don't hold up. Seaf has probably only mentioned Kildare for the purposes of comparison.

Kildare shares with Galway a large population, but has even less success and doesn't have an hurling success either.

Nobody mentioned any leinster team as likely to make the top 4. The dubs won 9 out of the last 10 leinsters. How long more is this deplorable state of non competitive leinster football likely to persist ?

Quote from: mouview on February 20, 2015, 10:27:04 AM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 19, 2015, 10:58:35 PM

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 19, 2015, 10:35:00 PM
And Meath for some reason :)

yup..and what do Meath and Kildare have in common when it comes to Galway  ;)

Well it's quite unlikely anyone from Galway would have a problem (historically or otherwise) with Kildare or Meath GAA-wise.
Your insinuations don't hold up. Seaf has probably only mentioned Kildare for the purposes of comparison.

you mean comparisons like this ?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=53585f0a436a75361ee9004fc3e2de1a&topic=24263.msg1318401 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=53585f0a436a75361ee9004fc3e2de1a&topic=24263.msg1318401)

It is very snide. No need for it. Kildare and Cavan are two proud counties with plenty of tradition. They are certainly the equal of Galway so I don't know where this sense of superiority comes from.

Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 11:12:44 AM
Kildare shares with Galway a large population, but has even less success and doesn't have an hurling success either.

Too busy with all that horse racing stuff.

Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 12:08:00 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 11:12:44 AM
Kildare shares with Galway a large population, but has even less success and doesn't have an hurling success either.

Too busy with all that horse racing stuff.

Someone has to keep the Galway tourist industry alive every July.

Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 11:12:44 AM
Kildare shares with Galway a large population, but has even less success and doesn't have an hurling success either.

29 counties have even less success then Galway.

Quote from: Old yeller on February 19, 2015, 07:09:20 PM

Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2015, 03:45:17 PM

Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 19, 2015, 03:24:23 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2015, 11:13:39 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 17, 2015, 10:31:54 PM
Cavan are a far more successful county than Galway given their respective picks.

How much population of Galway is footballing though? I know there's a line north of somewhere (the railway track I read somewhere?) and Ballinasloe. Given a large enough portion of Galway's population is hurling, that might not be the case Mike. And it pains me to say it that Mayo only have one third of the amount of Sams they have... :-X

Its up to each county to make the most of their available populations. Cavan had under 60k people when they were winning All Irelands which is a fine achievement. Not sure if there is a smaller county that has done it. Galway has a whole city. If they cannot get people in the city mobilised to play GAA  then that is their problem.

the heartland of Galway football is around Tuam in the north of the county. I think the 3 in a row team came from a 20 mile radius of there.
Harnessing the city is a longer term project. GAA success is often more about families than population. See Kildare.

Ros in the 40s probably had less than 60k.

Which one of Cavan's AI's in particular do you think they don't deserve?

Allow me to answer that one, if I may... 1948 when the ref blew up early. ;) ;)