http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0102/669927-political-party/
We're saved from ruin !
I wonder what name they're going to choose.
Well they're all for power to the people, so how about some reference to democracy? Can we get the word "Democrats" in there?
And they want to push a reform agenda, so they're a prgressive bunch. How about "Progressive Democrats?"
Oh the excitement! It's overwhelming! Eddie will show us how to borrow from Credit Union to pay off Credit Card debts. How to use the bus instead of taking the taxi to and from work. That you can't be eating out all the time. As for a name, how about Democratic Left (overs). Of course Lucinda is originally from Mayo. So there will naturally be the begrudgery starting in Mayo! :P
Freedom of thought, difference and independence are great buzzwords but without breaking up the lobbies and structures that strangle efforts at change, the status quo will sail on unhindered. The PDs didn't have the balls either.
Once I saw Hobbs alongside her I knew this lot are just more of the same.
Power for the people is usually plamas. Will Lucinda do anything about the excessive power held by senior cabinet ministers or the state of the legal system?
Is this the first political party with a name involving a computer / technical term?
How long before they crash? Or need patched? Or just become incompatible with the users needs?
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
Hobbs is a snake oil salesman, I'd sooner vote for Hobbes and Calvin.
So boring and unimaginative - exactly what I would expect from Cretin. Like a child screaming, begging for attention. The country needs new parties but more importantly new thinking. This is just rubbish.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
What are you smoking Lynchboy? Lucinda Creighton appealing to liberals! She comes from the right of Fine Gael, she is hardcore pro life and against Gay marriage. She will appeal to the holy Joes that vote Fine Gael.
Hobbs is a populist, he is supposed to be the show biz side to this party. What he stands for I have no idea.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 03, 2015, 11:00:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
What are you smoking Lynchboy? Lucinda Creighton appealing to liberals! She comes from the right of Fine Gael, she is hardcore pro life and against Gay marriage. She will appeal to the holy Joes that vote Fine Gael.
Hobbs is a populist, he is supposed to be the show biz side to this party. What he stands for I have no idea.
That's kinda my point
It's to appeal to the 'right on' fcukwits who aren't based in the real works and live fanciful pc notions!!
The pd's weren't democratic ( Michael McDowell anyone), democratic left never moved passed the centre , greens were barely green but talked a good game and the Labour Party have not represented the workers for a few decades now!
Supposed political tendencies are completely wrong in this country!
Sure the shinners are not lefties now either.
Only ff and fg are what they say they are - self effacing embezzlers!
The right of fg is still around the middle as is all politics and parties in this country in reality !
Hobbs is prob going to try and flog his luxury appartments in third world country to voters!
Didn't Lucinda say she would vote for same sex marriage yesterday!?!
So it's not me that's smoking something Myles - it's yourself !
Better put it out and head to bed in prep for mass in the morning as part of your New Years resolution !
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 03, 2015, 11:00:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
What are you smoking Lynchboy? Lucinda Creighton appealing to liberals! She comes from the right of Fine Gael, she is hardcore pro life and against Gay marriage. She will appeal to the holy Joes that vote Fine Gael.
Hobbs is a populist, he is supposed to be the show biz side to this party. What he stands for I have no idea.
Oh that has all changed............
Turning to the upcoming same-sex marriage referendum, Ms Creighton confirmed she would be in favour of a Yes vote. "I think it is hugely important for gay people. Maybe I didn't appreciate that before," she said.
She said her view had changed recently "because so many people I know have actually gotten married, gay couples, or intend to, of course your personal contact and your personal experience will always inform your decisions". However, she said she would not campaign in the referendum.http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442)
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 03, 2015, 11:43:36 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 03, 2015, 11:00:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
What are you smoking Lynchboy? Lucinda Creighton appealing to liberals! She comes from the right of Fine Gael, she is hardcore pro life and against Gay marriage. She will appeal to the holy Joes that vote Fine Gael.
Hobbs is a populist, he is supposed to be the show biz side to this party. What he stands for I have no idea.
Oh that has all changed............
Turning to the upcoming same-sex marriage referendum, Ms Creighton confirmed she would be in favour of a Yes vote. "I think it is hugely important for gay people. Maybe I didn't appreciate that before," she said.
She said her view had changed recently "because so many people I know have actually gotten married, gay couples, or intend to, of course your personal contact and your personal experience will always inform your decisions". However, she said she would not campaign in the referendum.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442)
Yep
'Politician abandoning their principles shocker'
!!!
These fcukers are all the same
They all want into power for the money and fcuk the voters!
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 03, 2015, 11:00:12 PM
So boring and unimaginative - exactly what I would expect from Cretin. Like a child screaming, begging for attention. The country needs new parties but more importantly new thinking. This is just rubbish.
I agree. Lynchboy and his ilk trotting out clichés about the "liberal PC brigade," as if that legitimises their arguments, is a bit tiresome.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 03, 2015, 11:43:36 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 03, 2015, 11:00:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
What are you smoking Lynchboy? Lucinda Creighton appealing to liberals! She comes from the right of Fine Gael, she is hardcore pro life and against Gay marriage. She will appeal to the holy Joes that vote Fine Gael.
Hobbs is a populist, he is supposed to be the show biz side to this party. What he stands for I have no idea.
Oh that has all changed............
Turning to the upcoming same-sex marriage referendum, Ms Creighton confirmed she would be in favour of a Yes vote. "I think it is hugely important for gay people. Maybe I didn't appreciate that before," she said.
She said her view had changed recently "because so many people I know have actually gotten married, gay couples, or intend to, of course your personal contact and your personal experience will always inform your decisions". However, she said she would not campaign in the referendum.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442)
Gay marriage made it onto the front page of the RTE Guide. Resistance is futile. Fortress Abortion might hold out for another decade.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 03:57:59 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 03, 2015, 11:00:12 PM
So boring and unimaginative - exactly what I would expect from Cretin. Like a child screaming, begging for attention. The country needs new parties but more importantly new thinking. This is just rubbish.
I agree. Lynchboy and his ilk trotting out clichés about the "liberal PC brigade," as if that legitimises their arguments, is a bit tiresome.
Well go have a lie down poor pet!!
Quote from: seafoid on January 04, 2015, 08:18:38 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 03, 2015, 11:43:36 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 03, 2015, 11:00:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
What are you smoking Lynchboy? Lucinda Creighton appealing to liberals! She comes from the right of Fine Gael, she is hardcore pro life and against Gay marriage. She will appeal to the holy Joes that vote Fine Gael.
Hobbs is a populist, he is supposed to be the show biz side to this party. What he stands for I have no idea.
Oh that has all changed............
Turning to the upcoming same-sex marriage referendum, Ms Creighton confirmed she would be in favour of a Yes vote. "I think it is hugely important for gay people. Maybe I didn't appreciate that before," she said.
She said her view had changed recently "because so many people I know have actually gotten married, gay couples, or intend to, of course your personal contact and your personal experience will always inform your decisions". However, she said she would not campaign in the referendum.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442)
Gay marriage made it onto the front page of the RTE Guide. Resistance is futile. Fortress Abortion might hold out for another decade.
I'd have thought abortion for medical reasons at least was more urgent?
But the next step after gay marriage ( i actually have no real care about it either way) will be lobbying to have gay marriages accepted in churches.
I'm not sure - but isn't there a case somewhere that has a case against some church that is lobbying to make/enable it to hold same sex marriage ceremonies?
Under anti discrimination laws I think - prob USA.
Or maybe it was just the potential of challenging for this I heard. Anyone come across this?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 03:57:59 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 03, 2015, 11:00:12 PM
So boring and unimaginative - exactly what I would expect from Cretin. Like a child screaming, begging for attention. The country needs new parties but more importantly new thinking. This is just rubbish.
I agree. Lynchboy and his ilk trotting out clichés about the "liberal PC brigade," as if that legitimises their arguments, is a bit tiresome.
Well go have a lie down poor pet!!
Political correctness truly is one of the evils of our time. I so miss the times when we could go around calling black people "niggers", when women knew their place, and queers didn't exist.
We need to do away with this PC madness and employ some good old fashioned common sense.
Quote from: Sidney on January 04, 2015, 12:20:37 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 04, 2015, 03:57:59 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 03, 2015, 11:00:12 PM
So boring and unimaginative - exactly what I would expect from Cretin. Like a child screaming, begging for attention. The country needs new parties but more importantly new thinking. This is just rubbish.
I agree. Lynchboy and his ilk trotting out clichés about the "liberal PC brigade," as if that legitimises their arguments, is a bit tiresome.
Well go have a lie down poor pet!!
Political correctness truly is one of the evils of our time. I so miss the times when we could go around calling black people "niggers", when women knew their place, and queers didn't exist.
We need to do away with this PC madness and employ some good old fashioned common sense.
I have to say I wouldn't agree with your ideals there.
That's just impolite and lacking manners!
QuoteI agree. Lynchboy and his ilk trotting out clichés about the "liberal PC brigade," as if that legitimises their arguments, is a bit tiresome.
This is the first time I've heard of someone my age being a member of an "ilk". Getting old I suppose.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
Nah, I don't think you'll find too many liberal lefties will be wearing Lucinda's colours when the next election comes around.
Her policies are more right wing than Oliver Cromwell's. I guess she'll be looking to the middle-classes who got hit by the austerity policies more than any other income group. The left wing of Irish politics is pretty crowded at present and the Big Three, or what will be left of them, occupy the middle ground.
I think FF and FG would do some sort of Pact if the numbers work out after the next GE, rather than letting the Shinners get within an ass's roar of power.
I honestly don't think Enda or Michéal will be too worried about Lucinda or what she gets up to. I mean she's looking for a million euro but how many would be prepared to invest money in a party that as yet has no name, no policies and there's no indication who the candidates are going to be.
To cap it all, it will be another 8 weeks before Lucy decides whether to launch her proposed new party or not.
I don't think she has a chance in hell of getting her new party off the ground.
Think you lads don't realise Irish liberals are actually fairly close to the centre!
There's no real left and don't say sf. Joe Higgins talks a good game.
You are spot in though on two things - Lucinda wants to capture middle class vote
Plus (as I said about this being akin to dl, pd's etc) this party won't last too long , even if it gets off the ground.
Get a few seats ( Lucinda) and fg will forgive her, take her back in and award her with cabinet position
Personally I don't think this new party will appeal to me but at least they're making an effort to do something instead of just whinging
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 04, 2015, 08:18:38 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 03, 2015, 11:43:36 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 03, 2015, 11:00:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 03, 2015, 08:25:17 PM
Oh she and her party will appeal to the 'right on' liberal pc brigade!!
Since the demise of the democratic left and the pd's then the greens they have no 'cool' party with which to shite talk and pontificate
What are you smoking Lynchboy? Lucinda Creighton appealing to liberals! She comes from the right of Fine Gael, she is hardcore pro life and against Gay marriage. She will appeal to the holy Joes that vote Fine Gael.
Hobbs is a populist, he is supposed to be the show biz side to this party. What he stands for I have no idea.
Oh that has all changed............
Turning to the upcoming same-sex marriage referendum, Ms Creighton confirmed she would be in favour of a Yes vote. "I think it is hugely important for gay people. Maybe I didn't appreciate that before," she said.
She said her view had changed recently "because so many people I know have actually gotten married, gay couples, or intend to, of course your personal contact and your personal experience will always inform your decisions". However, she said she would not campaign in the referendum.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/lucinda-creighton-seeking-1m-for-new-party-1.2053442)
Gay marriage made it onto the front page of the RTE Guide. Resistance is futile. Fortress Abortion might hold out for another decade.
I'd have thought abortion for medical reasons at least was more urgent?
But the next step after gay marriage ( i actually have no real care about it either way) will be lobbying to have gay marriages accepted in churches.
I'm not sure - but isn't there a case somewhere that has a case against some church that is lobbying to make/enable it to hold same sex marriage ceremonies?
Under anti discrimination laws I think - prob USA.
Or maybe it was just the potential of challenging for this I heard. Anyone come across this?
I really doubt many LGBT people give two fúcks about gay marriage being accepted in churches. That's like tarring every religious person by the actions of the lunatic fringe.
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 05, 2015, 10:25:58 AM
Personally I don't think this new party will appeal to me but at least they're making an effort to do something instead of just whinging
True enough. Fintan O'Toole talked the talk before the last election.
If (and I am only assuming) this party opposes the same sex marriage referendum then it will get no end of publicity and airtime being the only party (afaik) opposing it. Will impress a fairly largeish wing of FG. Very smart timing if that is the case.
Even if it gets a smallish % of the vote it could harm FG no end just like the Hunger Strike candidates did to CJH all those years denying him a win in a GE.
Quote from: Canalman on January 05, 2015, 11:01:08 AM
If (and I am only assuming) this party opposes the same sex marriage referendum then it will get no end of publicity and airtime being the only party (afaik) opposing it. Will impress a fairly largeish wing of FG. Very smart timing if that is the case.
Even if it gets a smallish % of the vote it could harm FG no end just like the Hunger Strike candidates did to CJH all those years denying him a win in a GE.
You'd want to read the thread more carefully Canalman..
Quote from: Syferus on January 05, 2015, 11:53:02 AM
Quote from: Canalman on January 05, 2015, 11:01:08 AM
If (and I am only assuming) this party opposes the same sex marriage referendum then it will get no end of publicity and airtime being the only party (afaik) opposing it. Will impress a fairly largeish wing of FG. Very smart timing if that is the case.
Even if it gets a smallish % of the vote it could harm FG no end just like the Hunger Strike candidates did to CJH all those years denying him a win in a GE.
You'd want to read the thread more carefully Canalman..
Call me an old fuddy duddy but I tend to try and not to blindly believe everything posted on the internet. In the absence of any other info ( with all due respect to fellow posters ) I prefer to assume.
It's the Irish Times interview. Not fellow posters. She clearly says she's voting Yes to Gay Marriage.
Quote from: Canalman on January 05, 2015, 12:00:04 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 05, 2015, 11:53:02 AM
Quote from: Canalman on January 05, 2015, 11:01:08 AM
If (and I am only assuming) this party opposes the same sex marriage referendum then it will get no end of publicity and airtime being the only party (afaik) opposing it. Will impress a fairly largeish wing of FG. Very smart timing if that is the case.
Even if it gets a smallish % of the vote it could harm FG no end just like the Hunger Strike candidates did to CJH all those years denying him a win in a GE.
You'd want to read the thread more carefully Canalman..
Call me an old fuddy duddy but I tend to try and not to blindly believe everything posted on the internet. In the absence of any other info ( with all due respect to fellow posters ) I prefer to assume.
It's a direct quote from the so-called newspaper of record, as AZ has said.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 05, 2015, 12:02:30 PM
It's the Irish Times interview. Not fellow posters. She clearly says she's voting Yes to Gay Marriage.
Fair enough . I stand corrected.
Whether you agree with her or not, I thought she had a conscience and a belief that she was willing to stand for. A principled stand, whether you agree or not, is an admirable thing. However she seems to be as flexible as other politicians when chasing the auld vote, so i think this will be more of the same. PDs lite.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 05, 2015, 12:51:18 PM
Whether you agree with her or not, I thought she had a conscience and a belief that she was willing to stand for. A principled stand, whether you agree or not, is an admirable thing. However she seems to be as flexible as other politicians when chasing the auld vote, so i think this will be more of the same. PDs lite.
At least they had a name.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 10:41:02 PM
Think you lads don't realise Irish liberals are actually fairly close to the centre!
There's no real left and don't say sf. Joe Higgins talks a good game.
You are spot in though on two things - Lucinda wants to capture middle class vote
Plus (as I said about this being akin to dl, pd's etc) this party won't last too long , even if it gets off the ground.
Get a few seats ( Lucinda) and fg will forgive her, take her back in and award her with cabinet position
SF are most certainly not a party of the left. They are FF in waiting. The Socialist Party and PBP along with some other groups are the left in Irish politics.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 05, 2015, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 10:41:02 PM
Think you lads don't realise Irish liberals are actually fairly close to the centre!
There's no real left and don't say sf. Joe Higgins talks a good game.
You are spot in though on two things - Lucinda wants to capture middle class vote
Plus (as I said about this being akin to dl, pd's etc) this party won't last too long , even if it gets off the ground.
Get a few seats ( Lucinda) and fg will forgive her, take her back in and award her with cabinet position
SF are most certainly not a party of the left. They are FF in waiting. The Socialist Party and PBP along with some other groups are the left in Irish politics.
The problem with the old left/right, communism/capitalism axes is that they are now pretty obsolete, except at election time when ideological promises are made.
We are now ruled by Central Banks, and regional banks are simply implementers of CB policies. This might have the appearance of capitalism but when the banks crashed they 'socialised' their debt using the collective, i.e. us, to repay them. Thus they get the best of both (left/right) worlds while we get the worst.
Irish politicians, in and out of government, haven't the cop on to know that they are merely a powerless side-show. The new party doesn't seem to know the difference either.
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 05, 2015, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 10:41:02 PM
Think you lads don't realise Irish liberals are actually fairly close to the centre!
There's no real left and don't say sf. Joe Higgins talks a good game.
You are spot in though on two things - Lucinda wants to capture middle class vote
Plus (as I said about this being akin to dl, pd's etc) this party won't last too long , even if it gets off the ground.
Get a few seats ( Lucinda) and fg will forgive her, take her back in and award her with cabinet position
SF are most certainly not a party of the left. They are FF in waiting. The Socialist Party and PBP along with some other groups are the left in Irish politics.
The problem with the old left/right, communism/capitalism axes is that they are now pretty obsolete, except at election time when ideological promises are made.
We are now ruled by Central Banks, and regional banks are simply implementers of CB policies. This might have the appearance of capitalism but when the banks crashed they 'socialised' their debt using the collective, i.e. us, to repay them. Thus they get the best of both (left/right) worlds while we get the worst.
Irish politicians, in and out of government, haven't the cop on to know that they are merely a powerless side-show. The new party doesn't seem to know the difference either.
the parties are reduced to doling out goodies to their buddies.And mopping up the excesses of finance.
The Swiss finance minister had a heart attack after being told in 2008 that UBS was in serious trouble.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 05, 2015, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 04, 2015, 10:41:02 PM
Think you lads don't realise Irish liberals are actually fairly close to the centre!
There's no real left and don't say sf. Joe Higgins talks a good game.
You are spot in though on two things - Lucinda wants to capture middle class vote
Plus (as I said about this being akin to dl, pd's etc) this party won't last too long , even if it gets off the ground.
Get a few seats ( Lucinda) and fg will forgive her, take her back in and award her with cabinet position
SF are most certainly not a party of the left. They are FF in waiting. The Socialist Party and PBP along with some other groups are the left in Irish politics.
Unfortunately they are putting the looney into the looney left!
Completely agree about sf.
One slight move and they will be ff !
Sure they will have an ex ff member as leader soon!
Though I think she is quite good ( mad but nice with it)
Soon there will be up to four new "political groupings" to choose from.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/four-new-political-groupings-likely-to-be-formed-ahead-of-next-general-election-1.2054545
Quote from: dec on January 05, 2015, 06:59:37 PM
Soon there will be up to four new "political groupings" to choose from.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/four-new-political-groupings-likely-to-be-formed-ahead-of-next-general-election-1.2054545
One of them is the old United Left Alliance remnants. Too many ideologues, big mouths and big egos there to sit behind one great leader.
Another is a Shane Ross led (presumably) pro-business party and thus right of centre party. But no policies yet. Given he is editor of the Sindo Business supplement he should be able to get things moving somewhat, if he really wants to. But will other TDs bow to him and tow the line?
The Roscommon/South Leitrim party is currently formulating policy to put
'some meat on the bone'. Sheariously? Lambs to the slaughter methinks.
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 07:34:01 PM
Quote from: dec on January 05, 2015, 06:59:37 PM
Soon there will be up to four new "political groupings" to choose from.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/four-new-political-groupings-likely-to-be-formed-ahead-of-next-general-election-1.2054545
One of them is the old United Left Alliance remnants. Too many ideologues, big mouths and big egos there to sit behind one great leader.
Another is a Shane Ross led (presumably) pro-business party and thus right of centre party. But no policies yet. Given he is editor of the Sindo Business supplement he should be able to get things moving somewhat, if he really wants to. But will other TDs bow to him and tow the line?
The Roscommon/South Leitrim party is currently formulating policy to put 'some meat on the bone'. Sheariously? Lambs to the slaughter methinks.
The Ross bandwagon could be interesting. We might see a split between private sector and public sector developing over the next while.
Quote from: seafoid on January 05, 2015, 07:37:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 05, 2015, 07:34:01 PM
Quote from: dec on January 05, 2015, 06:59:37 PM
Soon there will be up to four new "political groupings" to choose from.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/four-new-political-groupings-likely-to-be-formed-ahead-of-next-general-election-1.2054545
One of them is the old United Left Alliance remnants. Too many ideologues, big mouths and big egos there to sit behind one great leader.
Another is a Shane Ross led (presumably) pro-business party and thus right of centre party. But no policies yet. Given he is editor of the Sindo Business supplement he should be able to get things moving somewhat, if he really wants to. But will other TDs bow to him and tow the line?
The Roscommon/South Leitrim party is currently formulating policy to put 'some meat on the bone'. Sheariously? Lambs to the slaughter methinks.
The Ross bandwagon could be interesting. We might see a split between private sector and public sector developing over the next while.
Time for
NEW Labour?? Seemed to work for Tony Blair to push distance between the party of old.
Might save the skin of some of their TD's.
Time we had an All Night Party again like some mad buck in Sligo used to have.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 05, 2015, 09:14:26 PM
Time we had an All Night Party again like some mad buck in Sligo used to have.
Flukey Gorman. Gas man!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/islamic-scholar-has-no-place-in-party-says-lucinda-creighton-1.2059679 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/islamic-scholar-has-no-place-in-party-says-lucinda-creighton-1.2059679)
Lucinda Creighton has indicated she has no interest in talking to a Dublin-based Islamic scholar about joining her new party.
Dr Ali Selim of the Islamic Cultural Centre in Dublin has this week appealed to the Irish media not to republish cartoons that appeared in the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.
He also condemned the extremists who were responsible for the murder of 12 people in the headquarters of the Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
Sinn Féin's Aengus Ó Snodaigh claims the Government has sat on its hands since the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's review of the Irish pension system was published.
Dr Selim, who has run as an Independent candidate in local elections, said he was interested in talking to Ms Creighton about the political party she is forming.
Responding to his comments, Ms Creighton indicated firmly she was not interested in him becoming a member.
She said freedom of speech went hand in hand with freedom of conscience which was a central principle of the new party.
"Anyone who feels the media should be curtailed from unfettered freedom has no place in our political party," she said.
I was disappointed when I read this man's comments earlier in the week. It is fine to qualify your comments on here, but he really needed to simply condemn the attackers and leave it at that.
But Lucinda is off her rocker making comments like that. They will come back to haunt her.
I think she's off her rocker all the time :)
This circus is to start on the road today I believe.
Quote from: muppet on January 09, 2015, 06:38:09 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/islamic-scholar-has-no-place-in-party-says-lucinda-creighton-1.2059679 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/islamic-scholar-has-no-place-in-party-says-lucinda-creighton-1.2059679)
Lucinda Creighton has indicated she has no interest in talking to a Dublin-based Islamic scholar about joining her new party.
Dr Ali Selim of the Islamic Cultural Centre in Dublin has this week appealed to the Irish media not to republish cartoons that appeared in the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.
He also condemned the extremists who were responsible for the murder of 12 people in the headquarters of the Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
Sinn Féin's Aengus Ó Snodaigh claims the Government has sat on its hands since the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's review of the Irish pension system was published. Dr Selim, who has run as an Independent candidate in local elections, said he was interested in talking to Ms Creighton about the political party she is forming.
Responding to his comments, Ms Creighton indicated firmly she was not interested in him becoming a member.
She said freedom of speech went hand in hand with freedom of conscience which was a central principle of the new party.
"Anyone who feels the media should be curtailed from unfettered freedom has no place in our political party," she said.
I was disappointed when I read this man's comments earlier in the week. It is fine to qualify your comments on here, but he really needed to simply condemn the attackers and leave it at that.
But Lucinda is off her rocker making comments like that. They will come back to haunt her.
She wants to get the Breda O'Brien anti abortion vote in. Freedom of conscience my arse.
It's interesting that the breakaway from FG was over a social rather than an economic issue.
what i cannot understand for the life of me is why has she involved herself with Eddie Hobbs? it just seems bizarre, i cannot think of a more idiotic decision she could make at this stage.
you would think anyone with an ounce of political nous would run a mile form the attention seeking fool. he has no hope of being elected himself, he is sure to put his foot in it repeatedly, to be honest i wouldn't leave him in charge of the tea kitty let alone involve him in party policy.
its the equivalent of having Dustin the turkey as your second in command. maybe its just me.
Quote from: guy crouchback on March 13, 2015, 01:34:19 PM
what i cannot understand for the life of me is why has she involved herself with Eddie Hobbs? it just seems bizarre, i cannot think of a more idiotic decision she could make at this stage.
you would think anyone with an ounce of political nous would run a mile form the attention seeking fool. he has no hope of being elected himself, he is sure to put his foot in it repeatedly, to be honest i wouldn't leave him in charge of the tea kitty let alone involve him in party policy.
its the equivalent of having Dustin the turkey as your second in command. maybe its just me.
It isn't only you, Hobbs is a mouth.
Here ye go -
http://renuaireland.com/
I suppose they couldn't very well use Continuity Fine Gael. ;D
Shoddy enough looking website with Jason Fitzgerald's profile listed twice.
Still, if that's all I ever pull them up on it won't be too bad.
I'm keeping an open mind but it's difficult to get too enthusiastic.
Anyone hear yer man on R1 yesterday evening? He got completely tongue tied and the interview had to be cut short
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 14, 2015, 03:12:05 PM
Anyone hear yer man on R1 yesterday evening? He got completely tongue tied and the interview had to be cut short
Cringe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaRAOWmMT3c
Spoof account on twitter: https://twitter.com/Renualreland (https://twitter.com/Renualreland)
Here is a selection:
Rénúá Ireland @Renualreland · Mar 15
Hey @foxnewspolitics we're a new conservative Irish political party. Give us an endorsement?
Rénúá Ireland @Renualreland · Mar 14
#Renua'd @defenceforces: We'll cut the defence budget and spend what we do have on big guns, not physiotherapy.
Rénúá Ireland @Renualreland · Mar 14
It's time patients took responsibility for their wellbeing and brought their own trollies to hospital. Amazing prices from Mattress Mick.
Rénúá Ireland @Renualreland · Mar 13
We can announce that @TFlanaganTD has been deselected as a #ReNua candidate. #listeningtothepeople
Another new political party - Social Democrats. headed by Catherine Murphy, Róisín Shortall and Stephen Donnelly
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0715/714894-social-democrats/
Having three leaders is a little strange to say the least but from that RTE article, their policies are:
- will abolish water charges and pause the water-metering programme if in Government
- in favour of a two-to-one division in favour of spending over taxation in the budget.
- favour repealing the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution.
- increase taxation to fund a Nordic child care system, they said they would extend paid paternity leave and establish child clinics.
- favours the abolition of the Official Secrets Act
- currently working on a number of policies, including in relation to health and childcare.
- increase paid parental leave to 12 months initially – would cost €360m a year if it was to be introduced all in one go, but numbers on the live register would drop because people would be needed to fill parental vacancies. For each person removed from the live register, it saves the Government €20,000.
- Universal access to healthcare for everyone. She added that they believe in the current Programme for Government, but that it has not been delivered.
intend to intend to contest as many seats as possible and are appealing for people who share the same values, goals and ambitions to make a better Ireland for the future.
- will apply a whip on confidence votes and budgets, but will have a free vote on other occasions
Yet another partitionist party! :(
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 15, 2015, 11:58:51 AM
Another new political party - Social Democrats. headed by Catherine Murphy, Róisín Shortall and Stephen Donnelly
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0715/714894-social-democrats/
Having three leaders is a little strange to say the least but from that RTE article, their policies are:
- will abolish water charges and pause the water-metering programme if in Government
- in favour of a two-to-one division in favour of spending over taxation in the budget.
- favour repealing the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution.
- increase taxation to fund a Nordic child care system, they said they would extend paid paternity leave and establish child clinics.
- favours the abolition of the Official Secrets Act
- currently working on a number of policies, including in relation to health and childcare.
- increase paid parental leave to 12 months initially – would cost €360m a year if it was to be introduced all in one go, but numbers on the live register would drop because people would be needed to fill parental vacancies. For each person removed from the live register, it saves the Government €20,000.
- Universal access to healthcare for everyone. She added that they believe in the current Programme for Government, but that it has not been delivered.
intend to intend to contest as many seats as possible and are appealing for people who share the same values, goals and ambitions to make a better Ireland for the future.
- will apply a whip on confidence votes and budgets, but will have a free vote on other occasions
All grand, but how will they pay for all of this.
If they're looking at a "Nordic" model then it's higher taxes that will be paying for it but your services would be expected to be proportionately better also
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 15, 2015, 12:32:16 PM
If they're looking at a "Nordic" model then it's higher taxes that will be paying for it but your services would be expected to be proportionately better also
What's the tax rate in the nordic countries? When you factor in USC, PAYE, PRSI, VAT etc etc, is there much room for a hike?
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 15, 2015, 11:58:51 AM
Another new political party - Social Democrats. headed by Catherine Murphy, Róisín Shortall and Stephen Donnelly
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0715/714894-social-democrats/
Having three leaders is a little strange to say the least but from that RTE article, their policies are:
- will abolish water charges and pause the water-metering programme if in Government
- in favour of a two-to-one division in favour of spending over taxation in the budget.
We'll spend twice the amount we earn? WTF?[/list]
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 15, 2015, 12:33:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 15, 2015, 12:32:16 PM
If they're looking at a "Nordic" model then it's higher taxes that will be paying for it but your services would be expected to be proportionately better also
What's the tax rate in the nordic countries? When you factor in USC, PAYE, PRSI, VAT etc etc, is there much room for a hike?
There is quite a bit of room to go for taxes generally, whatever about specific rates
(http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/d/dd/Total_tax_revenue_by_Member_States_and_EFTA_countries%2C_2012_and_2013%2C_%25_of_GDP.png)
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on July 15, 2015, 12:13:44 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 15, 2015, 11:58:51 AM
Another new political party - Social Democrats. headed by Catherine Murphy, Róisín Shortall and Stephen Donnelly
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0715/714894-social-democrats/
Having three leaders is a little strange to say the least but from that RTE article, their policies are:
- will abolish water charges and pause the water-metering programme if in Government
- in favour of a two-to-one division in favour of spending over taxation in the budget.
- favour repealing the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution.
- increase taxation to fund a Nordic child care system, they said they would extend paid paternity leave and establish child clinics.
- favours the abolition of the Official Secrets Act
- currently working on a number of policies, including in relation to health and childcare.
- increase paid parental leave to 12 months initially – would cost €360m a year if it was to be introduced all in one go, but numbers on the live register would drop because people would be needed to fill parental vacancies. For each person removed from the live register, it saves the Government €20,000.
- Universal access to healthcare for everyone. She added that they believe in the current Programme for Government, but that it has not been delivered.
intend to intend to contest as many seats as possible and are appealing for people who share the same values, goals and ambitions to make a better Ireland for the future.
- will apply a whip on confidence votes and budgets, but will have a free vote on other occasions
All grand, but how will they pay for all of this.
Especially the caring for Nordic children bit?
Very disappointed they didn't include that it will only rain at night ::).
Sod all that relevant stuff. I want to know their views on the 1922 treaty. Pro or anti ?
Quote from: Canalman on July 15, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
Sod all that relevant stuff. I want to know their views on the 1922 treaty. Pro or anti ??????
Both
Quote from: Canalman on July 15, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
Sod all that relevant stuff. I want to know their views on the 1922 treaty. Pro or anti ?
They're anti everything surely?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2015, 12:44:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 15, 2015, 12:33:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 15, 2015, 12:32:16 PM
If they're looking at a "Nordic" model then it's higher taxes that will be paying for it but your services would be expected to be proportionately better also
What's the tax rate in the nordic countries? When you factor in USC, PAYE, PRSI, VAT etc etc, is there much room for a hike?
There is quite a bit of room to go for taxes generally, whatever about specific rates
(http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/d/dd/Total_tax_revenue_by_Member_States_and_EFTA_countries%2C_2012_and_2013%2C_%25_of_GDP.png)
What is "tax revenue" for the purposes of this chart? It simply cannot include USC. This must be purely for Income Tax and if so it's worthless.
QuoteWhat is "tax revenue" for the purposes of this chart? It simply cannot include USC. This must be purely for Income Tax and if so it's worthless.
A very Irish response as Irish people are convinced that they are crucified with taxes, without any real evidence of this. Irish GDP has some issues, but even adjusting for that Ireland is a bit like the UK and the Irish government taxes and spends significantly less than European governments generally. Now that is fair enough if people are happy with that, but some demand European style services with US style taxes, in Ireland even the left wing propose tax cuts, although only for the "workers".
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2015, 04:27:49 PM
QuoteWhat is "tax revenue" for the purposes of this chart? It simply cannot include USC. This must be purely for Income Tax and if so it's worthless.
A very Irish response as Irish people are convinced that they are crucified with taxes, without any real evidence of this. Irish GDP has some issues, but even adjusting for that Ireland is a bit like the UK and the Irish government taxes and spends significantly less than European governments generally. Now that is fair enough if people are happy with that, but some demand European style services with US style taxes, in Ireland even the left wing propose tax cuts, although only for the "workers".
As you suggest, GNP would be a better comparison, but you didn't answer Seanie's question.
I will add a further one.
Does it include all of our other 'latent' taxes?
Also you would need to compare unemployment rates. Less revenue versus GDP/GNP is great, but not if it is being generated by a relatively smaller section of the particular society. In that case the scope for increasing tax (if Ireland was the example used) is to either increase taxation on that small section of society, or tax the poor by bringing those outside the tax net into it. Best of luck with that!
Quote from: muppet on July 15, 2015, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2015, 04:27:49 PM
QuoteWhat is "tax revenue" for the purposes of this chart? It simply cannot include USC. This must be purely for Income Tax and if so it's worthless.
A very Irish response as Irish people are convinced that they are crucified with taxes, without any real evidence of this. Irish GDP has some issues, but even adjusting for that Ireland is a bit like the UK and the Irish government taxes and spends significantly less than European governments generally. Now that is fair enough if people are happy with that, but some demand European style services with US style taxes, in Ireland even the left wing propose tax cuts, although only for the "workers".
As you suggest, GNP would be a better comparison, but you didn't answer Seanie's question.
I will add a further one.
Does it include all of our other 'latent' taxes?
I am not familiar with the details of the OECD's work in this respect, but I'm sure they are competant.
But your question (and Seanie's) presumes that the OECD is leaving out taxes in Ireland's case while including them for everyone else, although they also have all these sorts of "latent" taxes (whatever a latent tax is). I'd say the OECD classification is consistent, so if Ireland is only collecting and spending three quarters are much as other places than this is accurate enough.
QuoteAlso you would need to compare unemployment rates. Less revenue versus GDP/GNP is great, but not if it is being generated by a relatively smaller section of the particular society. In that case the scope for increasing tax (if Ireland was the example used) is to either increase taxation on that small section of society, or tax the poor by bringing those outside the tax net into it. Best of luck with that!
The link suggests it is a Eurostat source. Is that not different to the OECD or do they get their data from the OECD?
But back to my point, if Ireland is raising taxes from a smaller proportion of the community, i.e. the workers and in particular workers in the tax net, then the scope to increase is not as much as the graph might appear to show.
Also, latent taxes would be, for example, Water Charges, Household charges and (presumably) VAT etc. These are taxes raised from outside the workers group as well as from within.
Just comparing VAT rates from a few countries:
http://www.vatlive.com/vat-rates/european-vat-rates/eu-vat-rates/ (http://www.vatlive.com/vat-rates/european-vat-rates/eu-vat-rates/)
Denmark VAT Rate
Standard VAT rate: 25% (Jan 1992)
Reduced VAT rates: none
Germany VAT Rate
Standard VAT rate: 19% (Jan 2007)
Reduced VAT rates: 7% foodstuffs, books, medical, passenger transport, newspapers, admission to cultural and entertainment events, hotels
Greece VAT Rate
Standard VAT rate: 23% (Jul 2010)
Reduced VAT rates: 13% foodstuffs, pharmaceuticals, medical, admission to cultural sporting and entertainment events
Reduced VAT rates: 6.5% (Jan 2011) books, newspapers, hotels
Ireland VAT Rate
Standard VAT rate: 23% (Jan 2012)
Reduced VAT rates: 13.5% medical
Reduced VAT rates: 9% newspapers, admission to cultural sporting and entertainment events, hotels, restaurants
Reduced VAT rates: 4.8% foodstuffs
Reduced VAT rates: nil% books, medical products, children's clothing
Quote from: muppet on July 15, 2015, 04:51:41 PM
The link suggests it is a Eurostat source. Is that not different to the OECD or do they get their data from the OECD?
Good point. However, the ratios for the OECD are similar I haven't compared them exactly.
QuoteBut back to my point, if Ireland is raising taxes from a smaller proportion of the community, i.e. the workers and in particular workers in the tax net, then the scope to increase is not as much as the graph might appear to show.
Unemployment in Ireland is about the Euro average and less tax was raised when we had little unemployment also.
And if some people in Ireland are not in the tax net that is a policy decision that Denmark has not made.
And these places do have significant latent taxes, but these "Social Democrats" launched today want to abolish water charges, which every nordic country has. http://cf.datawrapper.de/uj7l5/2/
What these "Social Democrats" fail to realise, or more likely know well but won't admit, that if you don't have water charges, USC etc then you can't have nordic services unless you had such a high marginal rate of income tax that no qualified person would work at weekends and any mobile person would leave. Frauds, all of them.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2015, 05:15:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 15, 2015, 04:51:41 PM
The link suggests it is a Eurostat source. Is that not different to the OECD or do they get their data from the OECD?
Good point. However, the ratios for the OECD are similar I haven't compared them exactly.
QuoteBut back to my point, if Ireland is raising taxes from a smaller proportion of the community, i.e. the workers and in particular workers in the tax net, then the scope to increase is not as much as the graph might appear to show.
Unemployment in Ireland is about the Euro average and less tax was raised when we had little unemployment also.
And if some people in Ireland are not in the tax net that is a policy decision that Denmark has not made.
And these places do have significant latent taxes, but these "Social Democrats" launched today want to abolish water charges, which every nordic country has. http://cf.datawrapper.de/uj7l5/2/
What these "Social Democrats" fail to realise, or more likely know well but won't admit, that if you don't have water charges, USC etc then you can't have nordic services unless you had such a high marginal rate of income tax that no qualified person would work at weekends and any mobile person would leave. Frauds, all of them.
This is it exactly. Abolish most taxes means someone else has to pay and in this country that means PAYE workers.