Poll
Question:
Is this a goal??
Option 1: Yes
votes: 69
Option 2: No
votes: 21
Big controversy in Derry over the County Final on Sunday which has thrown up a bit of ambiguity in the playing rules (Hard to believe I know).
Just thought I'd open it out to the whole board to gauge opinion on it. It caused quite a stir at the time and Social Media has been going a bit mad around here since.
What do we reckon??
(http://imageshack.com/a/img537/3316/HS8X4F.jpg)
Never a goal.
If the ball was that far over at the end line would it be a wide/45 or at the side a line ball? I'd say so
Goal.
100%.
i would say goal, it appears to be behind the post, but then that could be the angle the photo was taken at.
Is this the most pointless parochial thread ever?
I believe there were "incidents" after this game?
Typical discrimination in Derry football that Tyrone clubs continue to suffer from
Given that snapshot hell no.
No way is the whole of the ball over the line.
Is that Declan O'Sullivan's arm photoshopped into the last picture?
The ball is not fully over the line in any those pictures.
Fckd my accum
It is slightly parochial but I'm a neutral and it's fairly contentious. People are saying "The whole ball isn't over the line" yet that wording is not used in the official guide.
Personally it makes no odds to me who won the match but the issue has fairly divided Derry and I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought of the incident. The Poll is a pretty resounding yes vote so far . . .
Quote from: screenexile on October 21, 2014, 06:54:09 PM
It is slightly parochial but I'm a neutral and it's fairly contentious. People are saying "The whole ball isn't over the line" yet that wording is not used in the official guide.
Personally it makes no odds to me who won the match but the issue has fairly divided Derry and I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought of the incident. The Poll is a pretty resounding yes vote so far . . .
Surely it's common sense, even if its not in the rule book.
Is it not a penalty for the keeper touching it on the ground outside the small parallelogram? ;)
Quote from: screenexile on October 21, 2014, 06:54:09 PM
It is slightly parochial but I'm a neutral and it's fairly contentious. People are saying "The whole ball isn't over the line" yet that wording is not used in the official guide.
Personally it makes no odds to me who won the match but the issue has fairly divided Derry and I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought of the incident. The Poll is a pretty resounding yes vote so far . . .
I thought that only applied to soccer, no? It does look to be a goal though.
So some posters hold the belief that If "any of the ball" crosses the goal-line,then it's a goal??? :o
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 21, 2014, 07:56:33 PM
So some posters hold the belief that If "any of the ball" crosses the goal-line,then it's a goal??? :o
Not 'any' per sé, but let's say 80%...Is it a goal then?
If the ball hits either post or the crossbar near enough to the edge it will still go in. So I don't think the whole of the ball should have to be over all of the goal line to count as a goal. That looks like a definite goal to me.
Taken from Derry thread:
Quote from: Dabh on October 21, 2014, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: Fr. Cyril McDuff on October 21, 2014, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on October 21, 2014, 12:11:02 PM
Going by the 3rd pic and with the camera slightly behind the line of the goal I think its fairly clear the centre of the ball has crossed the line, if the camera was dead in line it would only look better from the Slaughtneil perspective.
Is that the rule though? From the rule book:
3.1 A goal is scored when the ball is played over
the goal-line between the posts and under the
crossbar by either team.
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2012_Part2.pdf (http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2012_Part2.pdf)
Can't find anything else, so fairly open to interpretation. Always thought it was the whole of the ball had to cross but that seems to be the soccer rule, which is more specific:
A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line, between
the goalposts and under the crossbar.
Can anybody clarify?
1.1 The ball is in play once it has been thrown in
or kicked after the referee has given a signal to
start or restart play, and it remains in play until:
(a) the referee signals a stop;
(b) the ball has passed completely over any
boundary line or strikes any flag marking
the boundary lines;
Whole of the ball - no question - even if 3.1 isn't clear
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 21, 2014, 08:29:30 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 21, 2014, 07:56:33 PM
So some posters hold the belief that If "any of the ball" crosses the goal-line,then it's a goal??? :o
Not 'any' per sé, but let's say 80%...Is it a goal then?
Not for me, no, the goal-line should surely be the same as any other part of the boundary line. The ball has to be fully over it.
1.1 The ball is in play once it has been thrown in
or kicked after the referee has given a signal to
start or restart play, and it remains in play until:
(a) the referee signals a stop;
(b)
the ball has passed completely over any
boundary line or strikes any flag marking
the boundary lines;
Would that as taken from cornerback's post not cover it?
Quote from: hardstation on October 21, 2014, 04:05:54 PM
It's not over the line in the pics but that's not to say it never was.
+1...and in my view, 100% of ball has to cross line for it to be a goal
Quote from: hardstation on October 21, 2014, 04:05:54 PM
It's not over the line in the pics but that's not to say it never was.
Exactly. It's extremely possible/likely that the ball rolled another inch or 2 which is all that is needed for the ball to be over the line. The umpire saw it as a goal and made the decision and everyone has to accept that in good faith.
Quote from: lenny on October 22, 2014, 07:36:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 21, 2014, 04:05:54 PM
It's not over the line in the pics but that's not to say it never was.
Exactly. It's extremely possible/likely that the ball rolled another inch or 2 which is all that is needed for the ball to be over the line. The umpire saw it as a goal and made the decision and everyone has to accept that in good faith.
I agree, there's enough of the ball over the line to understand how / why the umpire saw it as he did in the split second he had to make the decision. As mentioned, I'd imagine he made the decision in good faith and it should be accepted as such.
The marking for the line could be any thickness. So for a ball to cross the line meaning it has to travel the thickness of the would be quite variable. The line referred to in the rules and all other field sports is an imaginary line of virtually no thickness. So the inside edge of the marking is in fact the line. The field dimensions are marked to the inside face of the white marking line. The marking should coincide so that no matter how thick it is the inside face lines up exactly with the inside (in-field) face of the posts.
In the picture the whole ball has come inside the face of the posts, thus it has crossed the line at the face of the posts and so it is definitely a goal
Quote from: PAULD123 on October 22, 2014, 10:27:07 AM
The marking for the line could be any thickness. So for a ball to cross the line meaning it has to travel the thickness of the would be quite variable. The line referred to in the rules and all other field sports is an imaginary line of virtually no thickness. So the inside edge of the marking is in fact the line. The field dimensions are marked to the inside face of the white marking line. The marking should coincide so that no matter how thick it is the inside face lines up exactly with the inside (in-field) face of the posts.
In the picture the whole ball has come inside the face of the posts, thus it has crossed the line at the face of the posts and so it is definitely a goal
I agree with all of above that the rule should be that the whole of the ball has to cross the part of the line nearest the playing field otherwise how thick the line is painted will determine whether a goal is scored or not but the rule in soccer anyhow is that the whole of the ball has to cross the whole of the line.
In soccer all of the ball has to go over all of the line. In football, all of the ball has to go over the start of the line.
Therefor its a goal.
Quote from: blanketattack on October 22, 2014, 11:25:55 AM
In soccer all of the ball has to go over all of the line. In football, all of the ball has to go over the start of the line.
Therefor its a goal.
The wording I believe is ball must go 'over the line' which is ambiguous, but not for the reason you suggest.
Goal !
In real time the umpire would have seen most of the ball over the line and the clawback from the keeper. Goal all day long
Big call from the umpire,and as others have said perhaps the ball had already travelled the extra few inches over the line.Still,from those pics I wouldn't have awarded it.
Did the goalmouth even still have the line painted on? Most are worn away in the mud especially this time of year.
That's a goal, i wanted Ballinderry to win but unlike the ballinderry lads i wouldn't even had the heart to argue about that goal,Slaughtneil Had done enough to win the game and if they had put over the free the missed they been ahead at this stage. plus is seems we too many people watching soccer on here. How many people outside of a referee actually know the rules without referring to the computer or the rulebook. The supporters calls to sent people off, what is a yellow card and a black card seems to be lost on the crowd, plus the ref sometimes himself
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 22, 2014, 07:00:04 PM
That's a goal, i wanted Ballinderry to win but unlike the ballinderry lads i wouldn't even had the heart to argue about that goal,Slaughtneil Had done enough to win the game and if they had put over the free the missed they been ahead at this stage. plus is seems we too many people watching soccer on here. How many people outside of a referee actually know the rules without referring to the computer or the rulebook. The supporters calls to sent people off, what is a yellow card and a black card seems to be lost on the crowd, plus the ref sometimes himself
[/b]
So in conclusion the supporters and sometimes the refs don't know the rules. As seen on this thread, even checking the rules doesn't provide clarity. I don't think this is down to too many people watching soccer.
'Ugly Scenes At Derry Final' - and that was just the Ballinderry wemen arriving.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/29dvfrl.jpg)
that pic tickle ends the debate. Certain goal.
Quote from: God14 on October 23, 2014, 10:36:38 AM
that pic tickle ends the debate. Certain goal.
Umpire thought it was a goal, signaled as such, ref put it down as a goal.
Its a goal.
End off.
Photo taken down.
This looks like it goes all the way to the top!
Quote from: theticklemister on October 23, 2014, 10:30:34 AM
(http://i59.tinypic.com/29dvfrl.jpg)
Hard to argue with that photo
Quote from: God14 on October 23, 2014, 10:36:38 AM
that pic tickle ends the debate. Certain goal.
This picture was taken at the warm up and in any case the ball wasn't over the line.
Quote from: PAULD123 on October 22, 2014, 10:27:07 AM
The marking for the line could be any thickness. So for a ball to cross the line meaning it has to travel the thickness of the would be quite variable. The line referred to in the rules and all other field sports is an imaginary line of virtually no thickness. So the inside edge of the marking is in fact the line. The field dimensions are marked to the inside face of the white marking line. The marking should coincide so that no matter how thick it is the inside face lines up exactly with the inside (in-field) face of the posts.
In the picture the whole ball has come inside the face of the posts, thus it has crossed the line at the face of the posts and so it is definitely a goal
Is it not one of those unwritten rules that it should be the same width as the base of the post?
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 23, 2014, 04:18:27 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on October 22, 2014, 10:27:07 AM
The marking for the line could be any thickness. So for a ball to cross the line meaning it has to travel the thickness of the would be quite variable. The line referred to in the rules and all other field sports is an imaginary line of virtually no thickness. So the inside edge of the marking is in fact the line. The field dimensions are marked to the inside face of the white marking line. The marking should coincide so that no matter how thick it is the inside face lines up exactly with the inside (in-field) face of the posts.
In the picture the whole ball has come inside the face of the posts, thus it has crossed the line at the face of the posts and so it is definitely a goal
Is it not one of those unwritten rules that it should be the same width as the base of the post?
When you are wrong it is best to admit you are wrong. It turns out that the thickness of the marked line is in fact a specific size. And from what I could see in the rules, the pitch dimensions are actually measured to the middle of that marking. So a goal would be if the ball crosses the middle of the marked goal line. Much more confusing than just the inside or outside edge of the marking. Then again the wording is a little unclear so I may be wrong. But in some instances it is definitely taken as the middle of the marking so I guess for goals too.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 21, 2014, 10:56:29 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 21, 2014, 08:29:30 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on October 21, 2014, 07:56:33 PM
So some posters hold the belief that If "any of the ball" crosses the goal-line,then it's a goal??? :o
Not 'any' per sé, but let's say 80%...Is it a goal then?
Not for me, no, the goal-line should surely be the same as any other part of the boundary line. The ball has to be fully over it.
1.1 The ball is in play once it has been thrown in
or kicked after the referee has given a signal to
start or restart play, and it remains in play until:
(a) the referee signals a stop;
(b) the ball has passed completely over any
boundary line or strikes any flag marking
the boundary lines;
Would that as taken from cornerback's post not cover it?
Is the ball always "fully" over the sideline before a sideline ball is given? Not sure how consistently that rule is understood or applied.
Definitely a goal.
Ballinderry up to their antics again against our u21s on Wednesday night, they're a nasty outfit!
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 23, 2014, 04:18:27 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on October 22, 2014, 10:27:07 AM
The marking for the line could be any thickness. So for a ball to cross the line meaning it has to travel the thickness of the would be quite variable. The line referred to in the rules and all other field sports is an imaginary line of virtually no thickness. So the inside edge of the marking is in fact the line. The field dimensions are marked to the inside face of the white marking line. The marking should coincide so that no matter how thick it is the inside face lines up exactly with the inside (in-field) face of the posts.
In the picture the whole ball has come inside the face of the posts, thus it has crossed the line at the face of the posts and so it is definitely a goal
Is it not one of those unwritten rules that it should be the same width as the base of the post?
I've never seen a goal line the thickness of the posts yet, as the thickness of posts vary greatly in my experience.
As does the thickness of the umpires.
Quote from: orangeman on October 23, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: God14 on October 23, 2014, 10:36:38 AM
that pic tickle ends the debate. Certain goal.
This picture was taken at the warm up and in any case the ball wasn't over the line.
During the warm up?
Really?
Quote from: orangeman on October 23, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: God14 on October 23, 2014, 10:36:38 AM
that pic tickle ends the debate. Certain goal.
This picture was taken at the warm up and in any case the ball wasn't over the line.
Wrong on both accounts.
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on October 24, 2014, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on October 23, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: God14 on October 23, 2014, 10:36:38 AM
that pic tickle ends the debate. Certain goal.
This picture was taken at the warm up and in any case the ball wasn't over the line.
During the warm up?
Really?
You ever see an umpire at the post about to reach for a green flag during a warm up?
Orangeman must be on the wind up.
Quote from: Fr. Cyril McDuff on October 24, 2014, 02:57:25 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on October 24, 2014, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on October 23, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: God14 on October 23, 2014, 10:36:38 AM
that pic tickle ends the debate. Certain goal.
This picture was taken at the warm up and in any case the ball wasn't over the line.
During the warm up?
Really?
You ever see an umpire at the post about to reach for a green flag during a warm up?
Orangeman must be on the wind up.
;) Never !!!